We CAN tackle the CAA

[Mystery_Guest]

....And the constant unfair rip-off system they have subjected us all to. It will just require a little bit of effort on the part of you good people.

I am in the fortunate position of having the 'ear' of my local Labour MP. As we know, the CAA doesn't seem to be regulated by anyone, and the public would seem to have an appetite for this kind of scandal at the moment.

Once the bubble is burst, and enough people start shouting about it, we may have a chance to make some waves. No one need risk their chances of being a pilot, just use common sense.

It is a little bit rich of us to sit around here moaning, but not being prepared to do anything about it.

I'd be interested to get the opinion of the forum owners/moderators on the matter too. If there are enough people on this forum prepared to add a sensible and polite voice to this subject, I may be able to get the ball rolling..... <img src="cool.gif" border="0">

You 'avn't seen me, alright?

MG

[Davidils20l]

I would be more than willing to give my support. I could not start anything as I would not know where to begin, but am more than ready to follow and give my support if lead by someeone.

As for fear of loosing chances in piloatge for particapating, well F&*ck it. If we carry on taking the CAA's crap we are not going to be able to get or do anthing with our licences, rating, privledges etc...

. . To be honest I have had enough of their rubbish. Just as I satisfie one of their standars, they introduce new, or ammend old, upping and/or adding new price to things. The only reason I am carrieng on with the CAA is because of the amount I have invested so far, or else I would just pack off to Africa, Asia,. ( Going to do that anyway, once finished with Jar)

Well enough rambling, this is a wannabees forum, not a complaint. .coloum. . But get this thing rolling, and we will follow.

[basil fawlty]

When you are licensed and working for an airline you will realise that the system then works in your favour, not against, and you will be more than happy to maintain the status quo.... .Good luck to you, but I think that you are very naive if you really feel you can change the system. All professions have an establishment, and aviation in the UK in not an exception!

[Megaton]

How about the loss of Voluntary Tax Relief for professional flying training.

The adoption of JAR commercial standards for private aircraft.

The loss of national licences like the BCPL.

Ridiculous "exam by committee" questions.

Non-recognition of ICAO licences.

Landing fees, approach charges, airways etc etc.

[Mystery_Guest]

Basil Fawlty,

Thanks for you reply.

Firstly, to aspire to changing something that by definition will be difficult to change is a little harshly described as naive. Bloody hard yes, a long slog, yes. Frustrating, yes...the list goes on. But, the CAA is an organisation like any other, and it must and should be run and governed in such a way as to be fair to those who deal with it.

I would like to make it clear from the start that this is in no way to degenerate into an attack on CAA staff, many of whom do their very best to be helpful. I have had many good experiences dealing with many of them.

There are however a couple of salient points that I think need a mention. Firstly, the fact that the CAA may or may not support airline pilots is not really the point here. The fact that there are good aspects within the organisation is laudable, but in no way justifies the organisation's short comings. Secondly, the majority of complaints appear to fall into two most common categories: Admin and financial. Now, complaints regarding admin delays etc may well be nearly impossible to follow through, but matters financial may well be a different matter. Any organisation providing a service that is paid for by it's customers must be able to justify it's prices and adhere to what must be considered a 'fair' code of practice. This may be a good place to start digging. So far the CAA seem to be doing what ever they like regarding charges, but seem to be completely beyond reproach...

What I need here above all else is mass support, then I and we may be able to get somewhere.

[EX FTE]

Mystery Guest: Not sure what your motivation is for this thread. Are you:. .1. Recently abused/disenfranchised by the CAA?. .2. Recently but no longer employed by the CAA?. .3. Aiming to improve the aviation industry?. .4. Just out to create michief?

Any organsiation that provides services to consumers should be accountable to and representative of its users. No arguments with you there.

Having the ear of a local Labour MP may sound good but let me ask:. .1. Are they in the Transportation ministry?. .2. Are they on the Transport Select Committee?. .3. Do they actively support aviation?

Unless they answer is yes to at least some of the above, you will no doubt receive a polite letter from them assuring you of their interest blah blah blah. Truth is that most MPs have little influence on policy unless they are part of a policy making team, a committee or a ministry.

Notwithstanding my somewhat apathetic attitude towards the elected representatives of the people, there is a very important fact that you should know. The CAA is to be abolished; over time.

At the moment the JAA is a psuedo politcial body that represents the various national authorities with the intent of harmonising and standardising aviation within the members of the EEC/EU. It has as its own goal, its own self detruction and replacement with a new body - EASA. The European Aeronauctics & Safety Administration (correct title I believe) is intended to replace the national bodies. It will take responsibility for regulation, certification and enforcement of aviation policy for europe - eventually!! I think its inception is around 2005.

If I may be so bold as to suggest; the best chance to shape/guide/influence any organisation is from within. The only way that we as Brits can do that is by ensuring that our national bodies guide the formation of this new european body. That means getting on with the CAA and making sure that they input to the JAA what it is we want out of EASA.

I believe it is true to say that the JAA, for all its faults, would be a whole lot worse had not the CAA taken the lead in a number of key roles. Dont get me wrong I am not a CAA groupie - I just shudder to think about how bad it could be!!

So, I will support you and I have quite a few thoughts / opinions / suggestions that I would share, but I do think that rather than go for the CAA jugular, it would be best to present a united british front (authority, industry, private individual) in the formation of the future regulators.

[scroggs]

While this subject may well be of interest to Wannabes (and it may not: you haven't defined your position, point of view, or your precise aims), it is relevant to all UK commercial aircrew. It most certainly does not fit the relatively narrow subject constraints that we are currently trying to enforce on Wannabes, so I shall remove it to Aircrew Notices.. .I'd wish you luck, but I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve!

[EX FTE]

From the JAA website:

<a href="http://www.jaa.nl/whatisthejaa/jaainfo.html#4" target="_blank">http://www.jaa.nl/whatisthejaa/jaainfo.html#4</a>

"There was always general agreement between the JAA members that we need a more formal and legally binding status for JAA. Therefore a special working group developed a possible text for a JAA Convention that received an agreement in principle from the JAA Board in 1995 but was not further developed as some members felt that co-ordination with the European Union was necessary.

Since 1997 the EU is discussing a proposal from the European Commission for the establishment of a European organisation responsible for civil aviation safety. Finally in June 2000 the Council of the EU Transport Ministers asked the Commission to develop an EU Regulation for an European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) which will be responsible for rulemaking, certification and standardisation for the application of rules by the national aviation authorities.

Meanwhile, the draft "Regulation of the European Parliament and of the Council on common rules in the field of civil aviation and establishing a European Aviation Safety Agency" had its First Reading in the European Parliament and was politically agreed by the Council. After the envisaged Second Reading in the Parliament early 2002 and the final decision in the Council before Summer 2002, it is expected that the Regulation will be in force in the second half of the year 2002. It is anticipated that the EASA might start its work a year later by 2003.

JAA is very active these days, as defined in its second objective "Transition from JAA to EASA": To ensure the highest level of contribution to the European Union for establishing an European Aviation Safety Agency that would absorb all functions and activities of the JAA in a period as short as possible and would ensure the full participation of the JAA non EU member States.

The full transition from JAA to EASA will take several years:

EASA will at its start in 2003, only be responsible for Airworthiness Regulations and Type Certification.

The extension into the field of rulemaking for Operations and Licensing will need at least two additional years.

The participation of non EU Member States in EASA will need further negotiations and political decisions. "