Atpl Air Law Question

[TangoAir]

Hi,

What is the minimum radar separation for aircraft on the same localizer?

[Scott Voigt]

In the US under certain activities, 2.5 miles.

regards

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Tango... same at Heathrow - 2.5nm but only under certain defined conditions. Otherwise 3nm. There is also VORTEX separation which takes precedence over radar separation.

[Hooligan Bill]

HD

You need to add that in the UK the 3nm is when approved by the CAA. We had new displays installed at the begining on the year and at the moment can only use 5nm, which is a right pain in the a**e.

[Captain Stable]

Is it different for Cat II/III operations?

[professor yaffle]

minimum sep for final approach would be vortex - ie b737 following a b737= 3 nms (heathrow work with different seps to the rest of the uk) but the gap provided is usually more as generally in a single runway ops tower need about 6 miles to fire off a departure between arrivals

in low vis procedures the arrival gaps have to be increased to allow full ils protection - and an even larger gap when there are departures in between but there is no defined separation - just certain procedures to adhere to to ensure full protection

prof

[flowman]

Captain Stable

Further to previous answers.

Separation on final for CAT II/III ops has to ensure that the previous landing acft has vacated the localizer sensitive area by the time the next lander has reached the outer marker. The actual separation therefore differs depending on the availability of high speed turn offs, any back-tracking and so on.
In Italy (following the SAS tragedy) they now insist on only one acft moving on the aerodrome at any one time during such wx conditions. That's why arrival capacity plummets, and why you get such big delays!

Flowman.

[TangoAir]

:) :) :)


Thanks

Tango

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I thought the guy was simply asking for "minimum radar separation"... sorry if I misunderstood. I wasn't aware that Heathrow operated differently to the rest of the UK - must get my book out for my very last LCE!!!

[Spitoon]

Tango, is this really an ATPL Air Law question?

I only ask because I don't think radar separations for any situation are specified in legislation and there is no simple answer because it depends on many factors. Ultimately, it is the minimum that is approved by the CAA and as Hoolie points out, this varies from one radar to another and can vary from time to time.

[TangoAir]

Hi, Spitoon,

yes, it was an ATPL Air Law question. Some questions have in implied "it depends". So, as part of the game, you just have to guess the answer they like.

Tango

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Of course, you could always tell the absolute truth: The best form of radar separation is 1000ft vertical!

[Spitoon]

Sheesh, HD, I remember the days when it was 2000ft! :eek:

[Spitoon]

And, Tango, you have my sympathy. Some exams might benefit from questions that require an argued explanation of the possible answers - I didn't think Air Law for a pilot was one of them!

And speaking as a controller who's sat in front of a number of different radars, I doubt that I could give a really satisfactory answer.

[King Muppet]

Tango

IF it's the JAA ATPL exams then the radar separation stuff is taken from ICAO PANS-RAC (Doc 4444) Part vi - see the JAA learning objectives - which states that minimum radar separation (once a long list of criteria have been met) may be not less than 4.6 km (2.5 nm).

As that is the absolute minimum, that's your answer.

Naturally, the exam questions/answers will be suitably vague... :rolleyes:

Hope that helps. Good luck.