Is it worth Applying?

[MMEMatty]

Hello all.

First, a little about myself. I am 18 years old (less 1 month), have just completed AS level courses in Maths Physics and Geography, and got 2 C's and a B respectively. I intend to contine on and complete the A2 course (giving me a full A level in these subjects). After completeing this, next year i intend to apply to become an Air Traffic Controller.

Now my question is this. Although i dont believe everything i read in the Newspapers, everybody seems to be saying that UK ATC is almost at breakdown, mostly in the En Route sections, is it worth going for it? I mean i know ATC is a stressful job, but if there is so much more traffic this will add significantly to the stress involved, and one mistake picked up by the press would basically end your career.

At least thats the way it seems to me.

Opinions would be welcomed, and before you all start thinking i wont be able to cope with the pressure, its not that, its that i dont want to be getting into something without realising fully what the situation is.

Many thanks

Matty

[fourthreethree]

Simple. If its what you wanna do, then hurdles can be overcome, so do it. Its only a job like any other at the end of the day, but the stakes are higher, as is job satisfaction, comradeship, etc.

But then, what do I know, I ******ed off to Maastricht......:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Loki]

In a word, no. I think you can do better.

[Exel]

As for beleiving what you read in the press :-

if it's the scare-mongering stories of daily near misses in the skies above us.........ABSOLUTE B*LLOCKS................we (probably) have the safest skies in the world.

but if its the stories about NATS being on the verge of bankrupcy and probably in the worse heap of do-do it's ever been........BELEIVE IT...........

As for en-route being in a mess, that's not quite correct.............IT'S THE WHOLE ORGANISATION............you just have to thank all those old codgers in the houses of parliament (and the management) for allowing PPP.

If that hasn't put you off i suggest you get your application in :)

[OscarTango]

Why don't you apply at Eurocontrol, to work in Maastricht as an ATCO... the training is in Luxembourg for the first 9 months ( and they are fun months, as I remember )... good salary from the start... and the weather is the same as with you guys :-)

[atco-matic]

Hello Matty,

On a purely PERSONAL level:

If you want a nice car, nice house, and cheap holidays then yes you should do it...

However, if you cant cope with not having a social life with anybody outside of work, feeling tired all the time, and working when everybody else is off enjoying themselves (eg bank holidays, chritsmas etc), feeling totally undervalued in your job...

then stick to the 9 to 5!!!!

[Bern Oulli]

And the reverse applies.....days off when everyone else is working.

Every silver lining has a dark cloud, or vice versa.

[Barnaby the Bear]

All I can say is that I used to work in a so called 9-5 environment. Ended up with the usual weekends off and 20 days holiday a year.
Although I work for a private company, when I did work for NATS as an ATSA and then subsequently became an ATCO , I enjoy lots of free time (Far more than all my non ATC mates), and love going into work.
There aren't many of my friends that can say that.
As for the stress levels. I have just bought a house. Theres not much more stress than that, that I have encountered in the job.
If you aren't up to it you will soon find that out during the training (Although quite abit different from the live traffic)

I say go for it . I started in my late twenties and wish I had started at your age.


:cool: Good luck in whatever you decide to do.

[atco-matic]

Yes, Bern Oulli, I really enjoy sitting at home on my Norman Bates on my day off when all my mates are working, and not having anybody to go down the pub with cos they're all up early the next day... yeh great life.

[goatgruff]

Matty - yes, go for it.
Barny has it about right, the views of atco - matic et al are unrepresentitive of the profession.

There's no doubt that the training is hard work and highly competetive, and it's definately not the sort of work you can do if you don't enjoy it.
But once you're fully validated and working, there are few professions which match the pay and conditions and time off. Its also one of the few jobs in which you can't take the stress of the job home with you - it ends the moment you walk out of the door.

I'm not sure which side of the job you want - area or airfield work, personally I enjoy the airfield side and couldn't stand the prospect of being stuck inside an area control centre. Working at a non NATS airport, I also do approach procedural and approach radar work which is a nice variation of the task.
Equally, there are many other atcos who have the opposite view.

Each functions has it's own traits, which can make one a busy as the other.

The only thing to bear in mind, especially if you opt for Eurocontrol, is that once you've committed to area control, it's very unlikely you'd have the opportunity to retrain and work at an airport in the future as a tower/approach atco.

I trained with and worked with NATS, and subsequently left to work at another airport in the UK.
Personally, I can't think of another job I'd be as happy in, or one that has the long term security and conditions that we enjoy, and I consider that to be one of the most important factors in anyones career.

Good luck whatever you decide. :)

[MMEMatty]

Goatgruff-I want to do tower work, but after talking to a family friend in ATC he said you dont really get much choice, if they think you would be better at area control, you will end up there? is this true?

Excel- I dont believe those stories of regular near-misses, however one alledgedly "senior" ATCo said that the whole System over Britain was due to collapse within the next 3 years, just about the time i would be completing my training and starting out for real.

As for Eurocontrol at Maastricht, i feel that a lack of Language skills (altho i got a "B" grade at GCSE in french, i can barely string a sentance together in that language, and are hopeless at any other language ) would be a hinderance, perhaps learning some new languages would help?

Thanks for taking the time to reply peple, i really appreciate it.

Matty

[Rugz]

Been reading this thread with interest and thought I'd look into "How to become an ATC" myself.

Was disappointed to note that NATS only offer training to those under the age of 30, which stops me in my tracks as I am already 30.

Oh well, back to Web developing then :D

[fourthreethree]

MME

If it is your lack of foreign which is putting you off Eurocontrol, don't let it. I know of plenty of Brits here who speak only English. It is true that a knowledge of French, German or Dutch would help on a social level, however it would have no impact on your working life.

[Mr_Grubby]

Matty

Go for it !!!!!

We all moan about Management, equipment, hours etc. etc.

I have just done 32 years as a Controller with Nats. OK they are a S**t outfit. But the guys you will meet and work with are fantastic. It is hard work training. When you finally get validated and are sitting on your own up to your arse in alluminium you will think 'What the hell am I doing' Go for a beer after work.

Good luck !!

Mr G.:) :)

[C U JIMMY]

Hey Matty,
Don't let the b**tards put you down mate. ATC is one of the besr careers you can get into. The people are great, the money is not quite as great as it once was, but still competitive, and the hours can be a refreshing alternative to the 9-5.
It's true, 2 dozen drunken monkeys on acid could probably do a better job of running the company than Rupert and Cheese'n'Ham, but you just have to rise above the bull****.

If you think about the negative aspects, nights, days off at funny ties, earlies at weekends, they all have their upsides too.
Early starts mean early finishes, nights give you ample opportunity to catch up on the latest bestsellers, and do you realise how cheap it is to go to the cinema during the day midweek, when every other fool is at work!

The company itself is in deep doo doo, but that isn't going to affect you, the job still needs to be done, and we still need new guys to do it. If Nats collapses, we're re nationalised; where's the problem there?

As for starting 'live' in 3 years, don't be too hasty. After completion of the college course, you'd do support duties at Swanwick (which is probably where u'd end up) for about a year to 18 months.
So total time from start to validation is around 3 1/2 to 4 years.

Don't let any of it put you off mate, it's a sound career choice


:D :D :D :D

[fourthreethree]

atco matic

Er, get a different job, mate.

[callyoushortly]

Matty

I came into this job, like you're looking at, straight after A levels. It's what I'd always wanted to do, so I went for it. Here I am 3.5 years later fully valid in a tower/approach environment.

If you think you want to do it, then I'd advise you to go for it. There's no better job (IMHO)!!
Might be worth you getting a look around a tower if you haven't already done so..... that'll make your mind up if anything!! :D

Best of luck

[LLZestablished]

Matty,

Go for it!

I've been in ATC (Australia) for 24 years, and despite all it's frustrations (shift work, weird management decisions etc), still enjoy the job.

Will you ever become browned off? Certainly. But if you get stuck into it, the options are always there to go either overseas or bail out completely.

Interesting to see recent applicants for ATC in Brisbane included many kids of controllers who would "never" recommend the job to anyone!

LLZe

[126,7]

Try and get into the ACC side of things. Here you get to work with aircraft that can fly faster than 220kts. yehaa

[MMEMatty]

Callyoushortly: I have spent a day in Teesside Tower, lookin round and generally making a nucence of myself :D and i really do fancy tower work, is it possible (or usual) to go into this straight from training, or is it more common to spend X years in Area Control? or is better to be in Area Control in the long run?

Also, this is the longest topic i have ever created so keep them replies comin people!

Many Many thanks

Matty

[goatgruff]

Matty - your desire to do tower work is eminently sensible.

Area is a dark art practised by strange looking folk who mumble a different language as they enter the building, disappear for weeks at a time, and only then are they allowed out for a quick gallop around in the sunlight before they are despatched back into the gloom.:p :D
It's true that the majority of aircraft in area do go faster than 220kt, but that's only cos' if they don't the one behind will catch them up and cut them up.
Equally you can play that game in the tower at Heathrow or Gatwick.

At most (if not all?) NATS airports, the approach function is being centralised to Swannick, so if you want to do approach radar, it would have to be at an airfield where the atc is not provided by NATS.

It appears that you'd be happier doing tower work, but if you get the opportunity to choose during training, consider the options carefully:- you may want to opt for area and look 50 at the age of 25! :D :D :D

[cossack]

GG
Aberdeen, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Manchester, Birmingham and Farnborough all (for now at least) have Approach on site.
Apologies if I've missed any!

[ATCO Two]

Plus Cardiff, Southampton. I don't think all the approach units will end up at Swanwick by any means.

[cb9002]

Goatgruff, is it a common ATCO view that area is more stressfull than tower/approach? I know it usually pays more!

[AyrTC]

When I joined NATS xx years ago all I wanted to do was to work at Gatwick or Edinburgh Airfields.You guesed it I got a posting to Scottish.I had no idea what an ATCC did.
Although airfields may sound more fun at a centre you get to do "pure air traffic control" you will get a lot more radar time( if that is what you want ) :cool: and you do not have to worry about tractors grass cutting near your runway threshold as an a/c is on short final :eek: and you cannot get in contact with the
bl**dy tractor!!!.

It is horses for courses but Area (north of 55N can be really rewarding and I would reccomend it to anyone )

AyrTC :p :p :p

[canberra]

if you want to work in towers as a controller have you considered the raf?

[callyoushortly]

Matty

In response to your earlier question about tower/approach training....
Normal doesn't really come into the equation for postings... It's all dependent on what vacancies are available at the time that you leave the college and nothing more sinister than that!! Few (if any) controllers go from area to tower/appraoch, and it's probably more money related I'd say than anything else.

Is it better to be in area in the long run?? Well that depends on your priorities. Where do you want to be based? Does being the top of the ATCO2 as opposed to the ATCO3 matter to you? For me, it's a case of being able to change between the two disciplines of visual controlling and radar controlling, it's nice to have a variation and expect different things when you go to work. Some prefer the darkened room and a permanent life of radar. It's your call...... or possibly that of those choosing your fate at the end of the aerodrome course :D

[Gonzo]

Matty,

As my colleauge Callyoushortly has said, it depends where the places are. Obviously you get more of a choice if you do the Approach course than the Area course. I for one would certainly not give up working in the tower, even though I do really miss radar.

As an example, on our Approach course, there were places at Heathrow Tower (2), TC Heathrow Approach (4), Edinburgh (2 - 1 of those is Cally herself, methinks), Farnborough (2) and one at Aberdeen.......that's as far as I can remember, anyway.

If I remember rightly, all the area bods off our course went initally to LATCC, no choice.

Gonzo.

[BALIX]

Matty

We are all a load of whingy, moaning bug*ers but when you look at things, you don't find that many controllers going for a career change. If it was as bad as some contributors suggest, folk would be quitting by the busload.

Sure, there are problems but there are not many jobs where there aren't.

To pinch a quote from Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy: "The hours are good. Most of the minutes are a bit lousy though..." :D

Go for it mate :D :D :D

[Coke611]

Hi Matty.

I'm also considering a career in ATC (although I am still in my last year of compulsory education).

If its the job that you want- then theres only one thing- apply for it! I'm unsure what the pay is like, but I think its somewhere around the £30-40K mark for controllers (somebody please correct me if i'm wrong).

Personally, I am undecided about a career in ATC. This isnt because of the company etc, but its either ATC or business management for me (i know what the most interesting one is! Although business pays alot better).

Well, thats my twopennieworth!

Cheers,

Louis Coke (Coke611)

[Aunt Rimmer]

Matty - don't go for the RAF - and I say that with sadness as I spent 6 brilliant years there,and don't regret a minute. But, it ain't what it was - more work less staff etc... sure, you can cadge fastjet trips if you want to or get to sleep in a smelly tent in Afghanistan, if you want to, but you won't have a recognisable qualification at the end of it - despite all the ***** they tell you in their careers propaganda.

As for Airfield or Area ..... I would suggest do airfield, and get those ADC/APR licences tucked in your back pocket, because if you do transfer to Area (not impossible, but getting less likely as privatisation takes a hold) then you will be one of the few who will have the flexibility of choice to leave it as you get toward retirement. The Area job pays better, is harder IMHO, has more security, but limits you (certainly in the UK) to three (reducing to two) locations. Whichever one you work for the senior mgmt have screwed it up, but at least the acidic black humour keeps us smirking.

Wherever you end up you'll find a good bunch of people with a pretty lively attitude - the important thing is strike up friendships across the Airfield/Area spectrum and then we can all go out and get pissed !! Which helps us forget what's next to fall apart .....

[Radar]

Matty,
The posts so far should have basically answered your questions for you. As with all jobs and all locations there are plusses and minuses, in the end it's your call and yours alone. Despite inept management, it is a highly rewarding way to earn a living. As one colleague of mine put it ...."ATC isn't a job to me, it's a hobby. After 10 years there hasn't been a day I didn't look forward to coming to work." My advice (somewhat biased, perhaps) is follow your heart and go for it.
Best of luck !

[Dances with Boffins]

Come on down. The doom and gloom fraternity are partly right, in that teh firm is run by some persons of rather dubious ability, and true, there is only a 1 in 4 chance that you will end up at an airport [and that will probably be around London], but the electric hat wearing bretheren are as good a bunch to work with as I've come across in civilian life, and they aren't armed. ;)
The pay may not look good alongside consultant Gyneocologists, and the perks aren't as good either, but you only work 6 days out of 10, you don't need to mortgage your parents whilst training [NATS pays you] and by the time you qualify, your license will be good anywhere in the EU. Better than Dixons or flipping burgers for the clown. :cool: