PDA

View Full Version : If you can't beat em JUST LEAVE!


togabutton
15th Aug 2002, 04:16
Just read this stuff now (refer to all the uproar about the SAA pilot arrested for drug possession). Having recently left a great position on a 737 in SA and feeling a little home sick, this new development was just what I needed to remind me of why I packed up and left in the first place. Still makes me F@#$King mad that these previously disadvantaged??????????????? oxygen thieves get away with this crap. Suspended??? He should have been suspended from the end of a rope. Here in the USA, my new home, I have started my aviation career from scratch and presently flying a van around the Bahamas (sigh), but at least I am free of all that EFRIKIN crap. I used to say that we could stand together and defeat it, but forgive my defeatist attitude when I say that it is too late for that. Best of Luck guys! Bull**** like this is only going to increase the applications to other foreign airlines who pay US$ or pounds. Like always, give them something and they destroy it. Just look at the rest of the bloody continent!

Take it easy fellows! Tom -mail me at my hotmail address

StressFree
15th Aug 2002, 07:26
Hey TOGA, strong stuff mate, but totally understandable............
I cant comment about SA but just look at Zimbabwe..............total utter mess



:(

Doodlebug
16th Aug 2002, 16:42
Hey TOGA

Hear, hear.

Some decent people gave me a break in Europe a few years ago and I spent gallons of blood, sweat and tears starting all over again, also. Isn't a day goes by I don't miss my home. Man, I can smell the rain in the bush right now as I sit at the computer in Europe. But the same chaos, stupidity and horror that is evident in every single country on the entire continent is taking root in the RSA, no matter how much we try to ignore the facts. It's over.

Hang in on that van, Boet. You're not the only one.

fesmokie
16th Aug 2002, 19:49
Well, I found out the hard way about South African Aviation. Now I'm sure this was an isolated incident but never the less it really turned me off to buisiness practices over there. After being hired by Irwin Air out of Jo-Burg a group of six crew members worked our ass's off in Florida for a couple of weeks prepareing a B-727 to deliver to Angola. The purpose..To haul fuel with it to the diamond mines. We were offered a decent wage and without a written contract but a handshake left Florida for Angola.( DUH... on our part ! ) Without going into details it took us almost two weeks getting into Angola after we arrived in North Africa. After finally arriveing in Luanda our passports were taken and we never saw them and we never flew for two weeks.( Hostage's ?) The Embassy's were notified eventually and the passports were returned. All this time however Irwin kept promising that we would get paid tomorrow. The whole crew decided to get the hell out of Angola and head to Jo-Burg but to do so, had to pay our own way. After a week in Jo-Burg two of the crew members returned to the States after never receiveing a pay check and the others eventually returned to Angola to begin hauling fuel to the mines.They spent about a month or so risking there lives in this non STC flying bomb and they too finally gave up as they were never paid. NOW...there are a lot of scumbags and crooks in the US operating Airlines but usually they don't get away with it for two long and the FAA know who they are. In South Africa though, no one seems to care who these kind of operators are and are not willing to pursue and prosecute them. Its a shame some of us have to leave our own countries to find work but to risk our health and lives all for nothing is F#@##@ Up !! .:mad:

126.9
16th Aug 2002, 21:47
Careful guys; this could become one helluva long posting! I too left the best job I'll ever have in my life, flying for God's South Africa Airline with the greatest people in the world. I've met great folk here who've steered me in the right direction and pushed me along. I'm eternally greatful to them and equally p!ssed off with with the SA course of events. But my family is doing better than ever!

bwanatembo
16th Aug 2002, 23:32
know what you mean............... but never give up! You know what's right.... n ...... it's worth fightin 4+++

Gunship
17th Aug 2002, 08:49
Sad to post this and it might be not applicable .. but read and think about those that stay behind / lost it all ...
The Theft of Private Assets - by Eddie Cross, Zimbabwe
As NEPAD activity reaches new heights in global forums, the full
implications of the economic delinquency of the Mugabe government and its
effects on investors in the continent have still not been spelt out.
Businessmen understand the implications and we act accordingly, but it
seems as if African leaders, including Mbeki and Obasanjo, for all their
sophistication, do not. Perhaps its time to spell out just what it means.
In the past two years, the Mugabe government, with the tacit support of the
entire continent, has taken away from several thousand private investors in
Zimbabwe, assets worth at least one trillion Zimbabwe dollars. For those
who do not know what that sort of sum means, its Z$1 000 000 000 000.00 or
US$18 billion in private assets. In Zimbabwean terms that is three times
the annual GDP and more than the entire continent received in foreign aid
in the past year (US$14,6 billion). These assets were largely created after
independence in 1980, with 83 per cent of the owners acquiring them since
1980 - the majority with specific government approval, which stated in
clear terms that the properties they were buying, were not required for
land resettlement. What were those assets? The full list is too long to
publish here but it includes 8,5 million hectares of land, 258 000 hectares
of irrigated land, 48 000 hectares of planted timber. 1,5 million head of
beef cattle, 60 000 head of dairy cattle, 12 000 hectares of citrus
orchards, 2 700 hectares of deciduous fruit orchards, 12 000 homesteads,
350 000 workers houses. 2 800 dams of various sizes, 3 500 automatic
tobacco curing facilities, 37 000 tobacco barns. 2,5 million square meters
of storage space, 20 000 tractors of 75 horsepower and some 1 700 tractors
of greater horsepower. Thousands of implements, ploughs, harrows, planters,
fuel storage facilities, combine harvesters, hay balers and thousands of
kilometers of fencing, water pipelines cattle handling facilities, spray
races and dip tanks. These investors spent up to Z$120 billion a year on
inputs, were supported by 3 000 industrial and commercial firms, borrowed
Z$30 billion last year to finance the crops grown during the summer of
2001/02. When they made money most of these investors simply spent it on
their farms. Many were highly intensive and well developed properties that
would be the pride of any country in the world. They funded research and
training, marketing efforts that reached across the world, they made
Zimbabwean tobacco, cotton, flowers and beef amongst the best known
products of Africa. They
not only invested their own money, but borrowed money to invest. They also
invested their time and knowledge and many were active in their communities
helping the peasant communities in their districts to improve their output
and quality. They took out Zimbabwe citizenship and paid taxes. They obeyed
the law of the land in all respects. Their reward for trusting Africa?
Their government comes under threat
from democratic forces in their own country and decides that the white
farmer is an easy target and can be used, ruthlessly and without regard to
the rule of law or any other standard of human behavior, that they should
be sacrificed on the alter of political expediency.
They have been killed (12 have died since the dispossession campaign
started) beaten, imprisoned, harassed, expelled from their properties by
unruly mobs with weapons while the police watched. They have been vilified
and dammed by the state media, accused of every crime in the book and a lot
that are not listed. Now they are watching helplessly as their hard won
assets are stolen, vandalized or worse - simply
given to people with no experience of farming who qualify simply because
they are connected to the ruling party. Not a single farmers association in
the rest of the world has come to their assistance. Not a single government
in Africa has condemned this wholesale theft of private assets in Zimbabwe
and no one has proposed any form of assistance for the people who are being
dispossessed of everything they own in many cases. Many of these farmers
are literally sitting in car parks with their personal effects wondering
what to do next. They are being forced in some cases to take their children
out of school because they cannot afford school fees and most are planning
to move to another continent where this nightmare will not happen to them
again. Would you trust Africa with your money - if leaders who do this are
allowed to get away with it and in fact are lauded by the ignorant and
prejudiced in other countries, for taking action which will "correct the
injustices of the past"? Start talking that language and where would any of
us be? Land is at the core of the Zimbabwe crisis - I agree, but what
crisis? The crisis of governance, human and legal
rights, the security of investment in a foreign land? If you add this
litany of theft and abuse to the issues of sound fiscal and macro economic
policy then you have an outlook for investment in Africa which only the
completely blind and deaf could ignore. If you owned a pension in Zimbabwe
and it was invested in the money market here, it would be shrinking at the
rate of about half its value annually at present. If you retired on a
pension after 35 years of faithful service to your company, your pension
would not buy you groceries in three years. If you invested in an export
industry and intended to attack world markets with your finished product,
when you were paid, the State would take 40 per cent of your gross receipts
and convert it at 25 per cent or less, of its true value. If you invested
in a gold mine, they would take 80 per cent of your gross receipts and pay
you 40 per cent of its true value. Then if after all that you made any
money, you would be subject to some of the highest tax levels in the world
- Zimbabwe collects over 30 per cent of its GDP in taxes each year. If you
were employed on a standard contract of employment you would start paying
taxes on an income of US$85 per month and pay up to 80 per cent of what you
earn to government in one form of tax or another. You would get nothing
back - no free education, no free health, and no long-term security of any
kind. On top of that you might be told who to employ, denied residence
permits for essential staff, obligated to take into your company, partners
who would contribute nothing but demand to be treated as principals. Or you
might be faced with price controls which prohibit you from making a profit,
or be faced with demands for bribes in order to get your
trading license or a health certificate or even an import permit. If you
wanted a telephone line into your new factory you might have to wait 5
years or pay a bribe to have a line taken from another customer and given
to you. You might be faced with a state-sponsored trade union that will
make impossible demands on you for wage increases and other perks.
Dismissing an employee who fails to turn up to work or simply is
incompetent might prove to be impossible. Investors in Zimbabwe today face
every one of these problems every day - no matter how large or how
powerful. Foreign ownership does not protect you from these pressures and
in fact sometimes is a liability, because you have no local political sway.
Mbeki says that Africa is changing - I agree, but if they allow Mugabe to
get away with this outrageous behavior in economic and political terms,
then what guarantee can Mbeki give that it will not happen tomorrow in
South Africa, or Zambia, or anywhere else on the continent. Globalisation
means that people who want to invest can place their money anywhere in the
world and they can choose to do so. Choice means that Africa has to attract
investment and to do so it must protect and succor the investors who are
already here. Not treat them as economic prisoners behind prison walls
where they can do what they want to them and the rest of the world will not
give a damn.
During the struggle for independence, dignity and freedom in Zimbabwe, the
liberation movements claimed they were working for democracy (one-man one
vote), freedoms of association and expression, human rights and dignity and
equality before the law. One of the things that distresses me most in the
present crisis in Zimbabwe is that so few African intellectuals and leaders
are speaking into our situation in defence of those principles. They remain
silent, and by implication, they silently give Mugabe legitimacy and
acceptance of activities that are undermining everything they stood for
during the years of struggle. If this does not change, NEPAD is dead in the
water, before it begins. Eddie Cross Bulawayo, June 6, 2002.

StressFree
18th Aug 2002, 08:22
Gunship,
Thanks a lot for all the details about Mugabe, this man is the ruination of his nation. What I also find SO pathetic is the totally useless and feeble reaction of the British government. A lot of the disposessed in Zimbabwe hold British passports and yet they have had absolutely NO help from London (OK - so a Mugabe official was refused passage through LHR - big deal!!!). This sort of chronic inaction sends out all the wrong signals, freezing a few assets and petty travel restrictions have proved utterly ineffective. I'm embarassed and ashamed to be British when our government shows such weakness................
In Europe we are now being asked to contribute to Aid Agencies to prevent a famine of 6 million people in Zimbabwe, a few short years ago there was a food surplus which was exported.
A model country for the continent is now a shambles..............

:mad:

DownIn3Green
19th Aug 2002, 18:34
Well,

You folks in SA are not alone...

Just this weekend there was an uprising in the USA where our "afroamerican?" citizens staged a march on the Capitol, Washington D.C., demanding compensation for something that happened 137 yrs ago.

There have been lawsuits against corporations and even individuals who have bloodlines going all the way back to the slave owners.

What this has to do with things today escapes me, but if these folks don't like it here, I'm sure they would be free to go back to their homeland anytime they want.

mikeg767
19th Aug 2002, 19:00
Hey Guys,

I too took what was then called the "chicken run" and left SA for the States. It was really out of necessity, I had recently left the Saaf and spories wasn't recruiting. It was hard at the time and I still miss SA, but the lifestyle here is great. I frequently visit SA and always notice that the infrastructure seems just a little worse than the previous visit.

There are a few 'sithefricans' here and we still keep in touch and compare notes. Lotsa 'sithefrican' accents on the radio these days over Europe and the Pacific, so it seems a lot of guys made it out.

Best to all,

Mike G

AfricanSkies
20th Aug 2002, 10:12
you know what gets me most here these days?

there no accountability. no-one is responsible. you could go up the chain of command, speak to supervisors, managers, directors, until you were spreaking to the president...and even then all you'd get is a blank look and an 'ehh, sorrie, eh dunno'

weedflier
20th Aug 2002, 13:58
DownIn3Green

'Go back to their homeland'!! They're in their bloody homeland you ignorant bigot! Just because you happen to disagree with what they thought was worth marching for does that make it right for you to come up with a racist comment like that? During the Vietnam war, many (white) Americans marched in protest against it - did you suggest that they go back to their homeland then? Maybe you're a North American Indian, but if you're not, maybe you should think twice before you start talking about a homeland (whatever that means).
:mad:

SortieIII
20th Aug 2002, 18:42
Weedflier!!! That says it all. Go and have another drag boet!!

4HolerPoler
20th Aug 2002, 23:32
Keep it nice folks; this one's heading down the tubes.

4HP

Gunship
21st Aug 2002, 08:35
Weedflier ... we are all argueing a point here .. please do not get personal especially a direct racial remark.... my point of view as a non - moderator. The Africa thread has always been good, clean, arguable fun :D:

Ok I am off into the bush for a few days ... so Africa at it's best .. oh and this time - by road ! :eek:

126.9
21st Aug 2002, 08:50
Be careful not to get your little t!tties in a tangle buddy-boy. If his comment was thought to be overboard, I'm sure the moderator would have pulled it. On the other hand, your angry accusations certainly don't make for a decent clean debate.

Hang out here for a while boet, you might just find more racial tolerance amongst us African lot than you do anywhere else? And that would include a white man in the US being entitled to air his opinions, no matter what you think of them. ;)

TomBola
21st Aug 2002, 23:49
I think Weedflier has a valid point - no point getting your knickers in a twist if his remarks don't agree with all the others on this cosy little thread. I'm sure that if the moderator didn't think his remarks were in order he would have pulled them. All the previous posts on the thread were more or less concerned with the thread; it was Di3G who brought up a new topic, rather than just dealing with the issues of corruption, cronyism and badly targeted affirmative action in Africa which seem to be the reason for many people leaving SA right now.
I had to leave my homeland for all the above reasons too, so I know how hard it can be and I really miss being able to sit outside in the evening during the dry season just listening to the sounds of the bush, or sitting on my verandah enjoying a beer while watching a thunderstorm rage at night during the rainy season. I still hope to go back one day though.

togabutton
22nd Aug 2002, 20:40
Folks, I had no idea that so many others felt the same way. Hope that I will be able to have a couple of beers with some of you over here in the USA soon. I have only been here a month and a half, but the levels of efficiency are quite impressive. I am not that naive to think or believe that this country (the USA) is perfect, but my wife is smiling more and my son is incredibly happy in his new school. I don't have to think rand-dollar exchange unless I am going back to SA for a holiday and then it is all good news. I have left behind all my mates, family and a land that I will always love, but I am making more mates here and the beer is not THAT bad.

I have to laugh when I think what we use to pay for rent (in dollars) in Angola when I flew on UN/Red Cross etc contracts and what I pay now. I pay less than a third of what those ******s demanded (and got) from the UN etc and I get 10 times more. AND it works - don't need a diesel genny here as back up. Bloody hell I still remember those genny days in the Sudan!!!

Anyone contemplating the move. GO FOR IT!!!!! Its tough, but folks here are being good to us and flying here is great! The life style is good and I wont be back to SA unless its to see my mates or family!! PM me if you wish to get in touch
:cool: :D :D