Type rating with no ME conversion

[Hawker400]

Hi!
I'm running into a little bit of an issue in preparing myself ($$$) to convert my ICAO license into an EASA one.

I'm moving to Germany with my wife and hope to work as a pilot in EASA land, I have an ICAO license with a valid SE/IR and an expired type BE40 where I have over 500 hours and worked for 5 years. I've been in touch with some schools and will start the ATPL theory distance learning in a few days. Provided I pass that, I know I can (obviously) convert my SE/IR.

Now here's my issue;

To find work as a pilot in EASA I keep seeing that I need a (f)ATPL with ME/IR. Here's the thing, in my country (Brazil) a type rating is independent of a class rating. Luckily my first boss of a c210 bought a jet and I went straight to a co-pilot position before getting a ME. Never needed it.
All flight schools will try to sell me a ME which makes getting an answer pretty difficult and it ain't cheap.

With my experience.. Do you guys think I need a ME to find work in Europe? It'd have to be initial training which begs the question, is it worth it to do it here in Brazil, and then do the conversion?

Also, since I only have 800 hours I'm logging my hours into an electronic flightbook that can easily export into EASA format. It'll be filled with ICAO hours, is that ok? An EASA format logbook with a Brazilian registered aircraft?

Even if you have no answers thanks for reading!

[rudestuff]

If you mean a MEP rating, the is no requirement to have one to get a type rating. (unless actually you want to fly pistons!)

You will need an MEIR though, which means training as required on a piston single to pass the CPL test, then 15 hours to convert your SEIR, then an MEP course (but not the test), then an SEIR to MEIR conversion.

If you had an ATPL you could just revalidate your BE40 type, then do an EASA skill test to get a full ATPL.

[Hawker400]

Thanks for replying!
So essentially I can do a conversion of my ICAO SE/IR CPL to an EASA. Then regardless of my ICAO license - do a MEIR conversion based on my new EASA license but not getting the MEP?

I wish I had my ATPL I'd happily just pay a simulator fee and get a full unfrozen ATPL, seems like less work (well other than getting another 700 hours lol)

[rudestuff]

Basically, yes. You have to go to an ATO (approved training organisation) and do a course. Normally its either 25 hours CPL then 45 hours IR, or 55 hours IR then 15 hours CPL, depending on which you do first, there is a 10 hour overlap. The IR can be done single engine in 40/50 hours if you like, then you can do a 5 hour SEIR-MEIR course later.

However, if you hold a foreign CPL/IR, the ATO can reduce your training to whatever they see appropriate. In your case, guidelines state 15 hours CPL and 15 hours IR (10 can be SIM) - but this can be reduced again with an application to the CAA - so it all depends on you!!

I'm not sure how it works in Brazil, so this bit might not be relevant. As an example, under the FAA you can take a PPL, then multi to become a ME PPL. If you then take a CPL in a single, you would hold SE CPL and ME PPL. To become a ME CPL you'd have to take a CPL 'add-on' test again in a multi. Under EASA, Multi is a rating, not a licence. So if you hold a ME PPL, you can take your CPL in a single, and the multi engine rating comes along with it.

On top of that, 'multi' actually means 'Multi Engine Piston' - which of course you don't need to fly a Jet. The problem is that if you want to do a type rating course, you DO need an MEIR. And if you want an MEIR, you DO need to have completed the MEP training course (6 hours) - BUT you don't need to take the test or hold the rating. This is the bit a lot of people don't realise (and which schools don't tell people for obvious reasons - if they even know themselves.) So not doing the MEP test will save over £1000 in Rental, examiner and licence fees, probably more if you needed more hours to be proficient.

https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP804April2015REFONLY.pdf see page 597 for conversions, 424 for IR requirements

[rudestuff]

I really should be charging you for this: Don't get your hopes up too much, because we're really getting into uncharted territory here, but I just noticed something interesting:

C. ACCEPTANCE OF CLASS AND TYPE RATINGS
(1) A valid class or type rating contained in a licence issued by a third country may
be inserted in a Part-FCL licence provided that the applicant:
(a) complies with the experience requirements and the prerequisites for the issue
of the applicable type or class rating in accordance with Part-FCL;
(b) passes the relevant skill test for the issue of the applicable type or class rating
in accordance with Part-FCL;
(c) is in current flying practice;
(d) has no less than:
(i) for aeroplane class ratings, 100 hours of flight experience as a pilot in that
class;
(ii) for aeroplane type ratings, 500 hours of flight experience as a pilot in that
type;

Did you say you had 500 hours in the BE40? The wording implies that you need an EASA licence to start with, but if your type rating was valid, it might be possible to do a EASA CPL in a single, then go straight for a type rating test - which in theory should give you a multi pilot IR. It's worth asking.

[Hawker400]

Basically, yes. You have to go to an ATO (approved training organisation) and do a course. Normally its either 25 hours CPL then 45 hours IR, or 55 hours IR then 15 hours CPL, depending on which you do first, there is a 10 hour overlap. The IR can be done single engine in 40/50 hours if you like, then you can do a 5 hour SEIR-MEIR course later.

However, if you hold a foreign CPL/IR, the ATO can reduce your training to whatever they see appropriate. In your case, guidelines state 15 hours CPL and 15 hours IR (10 can be SIM) - but this can be reduced again with an application to the CAA - so it all depends on you!!

I'm not sure how it works in Brazil, so this bit might not be relevant. As an example, under the FAA you can take a PPL, then multi to become a ME PPL. If you then take a CPL in a single, you would hold SE CPL and ME PPL. To become a ME CPL you'd have to take a CPL 'add-on' test again in a multi. Under EASA, Multi is a rating, not a licence. So if you hold a ME PPL, you can take your CPL in a single, and the multi engine rating comes along with it.

On top of that, 'multi' actually means 'Multi Engine Piston' - which of course you don't need to fly a Jet. The problem is that if you want to do a type rating course, you DO need an MEIR. And if you want an MEIR, you DO need to have completed the MEP training course (6 hours) - BUT you don't need to take the test or hold the rating. This is the bit a lot of people don't realise (and which schools don't tell people for obvious reasons - if they even know themselves.) So not doing the MEP test will save over £1000 in Rental, examiner and licence fees, probably more if you needed more hours to be proficient.



Dude thank you so much for getting back to me with this. It's very similar to EASA here. Except that type rating training is completely different. Not ME or SE. This is why I never got my ME. Jumped from SE to a BE40.

Sadly my BE40 type will be expired by the time I start the flying part of conversion. Still need to pass the ATPL exam and make the move to Europe.

So if I understand correctly the ME, for all intents and purposes is a training certificate to let me train for a type eventually?? Unless you do a checkride to fly PIC in a MEP (specifically piston)

Thanks again for your help. You're definitely right, flight schools don't care about this. Hard to get concrete information.