What degree???

[umpljazz]

I have reciently applyed to goto uni in september and been offered two courses. :) One being computer science and the other meteorology and oceanography. As a wanna be Air traffic controler, which one of these degrees would help me most at interview? Also, if I apply during my first year at uni (hence, no degree) what are my chances of acceptance and would this affect my chances if I applyed again at a later date (with a degree.)

[bagpuss lives]

Hi there,

The ATCO entry requirements only specify that you should have completed a period of study at "A" level standard to exam stage - so your application timing with reagrd to your degree, I would imagine, is irrelevant.

An application during your first year would be fine I'm sure :)

With regard to your actual qualification I'm probably not the best person to answer really. I would imagine both would be extremely useful in different ways.

Hope this helps in some way :)

[xerxius]

As niteflite01 said, the subject of your degree is probably irrelevant. On my course there was a complete mix of people of which about 75% had degrees. The degree subject varied enormously from history and english to physics and engineering.

My advice to you would be to pursue the subject which you would most like to do and then stick with the course. Commitment and dedication to whichever subject you choose is looked on far more favourably than the subject content itself. It is also useful to have as many qualifications under your belt before starting ATCO training. Passing the course and subsequent unit-validation is by no means guaranteed so having something else to fall back on if it all goes pear-shaped is reccomended!

Good luck with whatever you choose to do...

[ATCbabe]

umpljazz,

As already said it is not important what your degree is in. The whole point of a degree is to prove that you are commited enough to study something through to the end.
My degree is in biology, which is about as completely irrelevant to ATC as you can get!!:confused:
But it was one which I enjoyed so it wasn't as bad to put the effort into.
Good luck with your degree whatever you decide to do.:D

[Cuddles]

If you're anything like me, a 3rd class degree in Diagnostic Radiography should do the trick.;)

It's not really how clever you are that counts, more how you think, and whether you have the necessary aptitude.

Good Luck.

[tug3]

Just a suggestion, but apply first and find out if you're capable in the 'aptitude' department of being an ATCO before committing yourself to a course. (Probably a bit late in the day to do this).

My degree is totally irrelevant, to the point I won't say what it is as I'm probably the only ATCO in the UK who has such a qualification and am thereby easily identifiable by my own employer. (Guess who!).

Pick your prefered subject irrespective of career. It will have little bearing in the ATCO selection process as the fact you'll have obtained a BSc, BEng, BA, whatever, will suffice.

Rgds
T3

[FWA NATCA]

In the USA there are specific colleges that offer Air Traffic Control Degree Programs (for information go to http://www.faa.gov ), as well as a school (use to be MARC's) in Minneapolis MN. that has a Enroute Controller course.

Mike
FWA

[The Crimson Fruitbat]

If you ever get sick of pushing little tagged circular thingies (PPS with FDB) around a screen......Computer Science can open some nice doors with the techno geeks at the provider level as well as with the manufacturers such as Raytheon, Thomson, Bae, Siemens etc. Most ATC systems are UNIX based I think.

I am led to believe that HMI (Human Machine Interface) is a problem everywhere where the geeks know SFA about what controllers want or need until a lot of drawn out consulting (this is where you can step in for a lot of $$) etc.

A sytem designed off the shelf with the user in mind that works first time and as ordered....and pigs fly

[AyrTC]

In 1979 I started a Comp Sci degree (we had to use cards you know :eek: ) Half way through 2nd year I was desperate to become an ATCO,there had been no recruitment for three years. At my final interview ( aye lad they were a lot harder than they are now!) Three very senior CAA chapies asked me "Would it not be better if you finished your degree and then joined ATC?"I replied can you guarentee me a job in two years time and they said yes of course we can.I said that is very good but I would rather join now 'cause I cannot guarantee you a degree :) .So I guess what I am saying is go for Computers ,but really go for the job.

Rgds AyrTC:p

[WX Man]

For what it's worth, on my course there are a couple who have BSc or equivalent in computer-stuff, one with Aeronautical Engineering and one with a Meteorology (OK, more like Climatology) and Oceanography - related degree....

However quite a few don't have degrees at all.

My advice would be to do whatever you think you can keep you interested for 3 years.

[055166k]

I have never understood the preoccupation with overqualification to be a controller. Degree holders are the root of the current problems in NATS. No longer is a controller happy to control traffic as a career. After five years or so , many expect to be off the tube . Down here at Swanwick we have almost as many ATCOs not controlling as we have controlling . A slim and efficient organisation it aint. Anyway --for anyone who wants to do it -- this is a great job. I still enjoy it and Iam an ex milkman from the dinosaur era with no A-levels. good luck.

[tug3]

055166k - Couldn't let that one go, (apologies to umpljazz for my need to digress slightly):

I agree that "problems" may be caused by those who think that just because they can 'push tin', they can go on to "manage" a company with 5000+ staff, a budget that would give any qualified accountant nightmares and enough technical problems to make NASA seem like a chimps tea party by comparison.

However, do not blame the graduates amongst us. This culture of promoting ATCOs to managers exists within NATS because the wider ATCO community couldn't stomach the idea of anyone without ATC experience coming in as "management". (One of the supposed reasons behind PPP was to facilitate this very thing). NATS got itself into such a state because its managers, predominantly x-ATCOs, made such a hash of running the show, (esp. major projects), and as a result HM Govt, under pressure no doubt from the wider aviation industry, was no longer prepared to allow such a situation to continue and baulked at the idea of further investment in NATS with such a management regime in place.

I may have the bit of paper to say that I spent 4 years with my nose in a book, (and my brain at the SU bar), but if anything it taught me not to touch a "management" post in NATS with a barge pole! However, good luck to those that do, whatever their background!

Rgds
T3

[ATCbabe]

055166k

After five years or so , many expect to be off the tube


Have to disagree with you there. People without degrees are just as likely to want to develope their careers as those with. Wether someone has the drive to "climb the ladder" surely is down to the individual, not the education?

I for one am quite happy on the active side of the R/T at the moment and have no "ideas" to give it up in the future. I havent done all the years of training to get a management job. I could of done that in the retail business or any other business!! Beside I enjoy my job too much at the moment, however Im sure after another few years in the job that will all be knocked out of me!!:( :(

[Hairy Badger]

a Desmond in archaeology works as well

[Scott Voigt]

Yeah, some managers and staff in the FAA like to consider the operational controllers as a begining level job for the lower skill set <sigh>... They don't seem to get it that for most of us, there is NO BETTER job then moving metal... I've found that a majority of folks who go into the staff jobs do it for either better days off, a very few who have a desire to improve things (they normally find out they can't and come back to the boards), those who are running from traffic and then those who have to have a title by their names to make them feel good and continue the climb up the ladder to a bigger office...

regards

[professor yaffle]

it won't make any difference whether you have a degree or not for your application, you just need to have studied the relevant subjects to a level or equivalent standard ( as you're applying for uni, guessing you have done that!!!)

bear in mind that a successful application does not unfortunately mean you will become a licenced controller

i don't want to put you off applying AT ALL but there is a high failure rate for various reasons, and maybe having higher education might be of use to fall back on if necessary.
or you might decide after doing the course that you can't stand working in atc!!

whatever you decide, the very best of luck

prof

[Vlad the Impaler]

CUDDLES, do you miss the anally retentives on IOM and how is the swedish engineering ?????????????????

[Dances with Boffins]

Barnaby makes a good point. The success rate is actually higher overall for non-graduates in NATS ATC training, not because they are any smarter, but because they are at least 4 years younger :( during ATC training. Graduates start off much better at the college, as they are better able to absorb information quickly from books and tutorials. Once they get the bit between their teeth however, the A-level gang end up getting the most through to validation [i.e. fully qualified ATCO], and beyond. If possible, I'd go for the ATC training first, and then head for Uni if you or NATS don't like your ATC skills. You'll have some money to invest in beer shares if nothing else:D .

I think my BSc [Ord] Biological Sciences [Marine Biology] must be up there with 'Most Useless Degree for ATC', but it helps me identify what's for dinner in the canteen.

[Spitoon]

Dances, if what you say about A-level entrants having a better overall success rate (and, as you point out, getting validated is the only success that counts) is true, makes you wonder why training courses seem to consist of such a high proportion of graduates.

[fourthreethree]

I agree wiht the general opinion here, your degree will not affect your application for ATC. I applied during my 3rd year of a Mech Eng degree, and I've been here 10 years now. My advice would be to use University not to advance your cv, but to gain experience in life in general and have an absolute ball before the reality of a professional existence kicks in.

So, "What degree?" Something you will enjoy studying, and something which gives you enough time to enjoy the delights of your chosen city! Anyway, good luck with it....