Apparently Prince Harry Can't Fly a Helicopter

[FLY 7]

Labour MP defends Prince Harry helicopter comments - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41411889)

" I've been told that's an absolute fact that somebody sits beside him and drives the helicopters for him."

[CharlieDontSurff]

I thought he was a weopons operator?

[serf]

Dear oh dear

[[email protected]]

Pretty much sums up Labour under Corbyn - they would rather peddle myth than the truth because it suits their cause.

[Same again]

I thought he was a weopons operator?

You may have weopons operators in your Army (whatever they are) but in the Army Air Corps we have pilots and aircraft commanders. Harry did his time as an Apache pilot and was upgraded to Apache aircraft commander. A very well respected individual too.

The British military has suffered cuts under this government but God help us if Corbyn's rabble get into power.

[CharlieDontSurff]

You may have weopons operators in your Army (whatever they are) but in the Army Air Corps we have pilots and aircraft commanders.

We're on the same side old boy. Ahh never knew that, just always assumed the guy in the front was purely there as weopons operator.

[Self loading bear]

It will certainly take a lot of side slip in an Apache to have somebody sitting beside Harry to fly the helicopter for him.

Cheers SLB

[Jettiejock]

It will certainly take a lot of side slip in an Apache to have somebody sitting beside Harry to fly the helicopter for him.

Cheers SLB

The talent in Corbyn's Labour party is boundless.

[claudia]

Stalin Russia ! maybe we need to leave the country now ! very very concerning.

[Private jet]

Royalty is/was the original incarnation of showbusiness? Take from that what you will...

[Sloppy Link]

We're on the same side old boy. Ahh never knew that, just always assumed the guy in the front was purely there as weopons operator.

It's all to do with survivability old chap. Two engines, two hydraulic systems, two generators, two pilots.....

[Blackhawk9]

Well if he can't fly he did a pretty good job flying the Tiger when her was in Darwin in 2015, mates at 1 Avn said he flew them a couple of times, the official one for the cameras and another time out to the firing range for live fire practice.

[fatmanmedia]

The MP who made the allegation has also stated that Prince Phillip also had affairs.

The woman has no idea what's she's on about.

[Impress to inflate]

She's right, absolutely spot on, he can't drive a helicopter, HOWEVER, he can fly a helicopter and taxi a helicopter..........................What an ignorant woman (If that's what she is):ugh:

[Sky Sports]

Its true.......Diana Abbott has the figures to prove it!

[[email protected]]

Sky Sports :D:D:D

[Evil Twin]

Why anybody would vote Labour is beyond me. I vowed to leave the UK forever if Tony and his cronies got a second term, I haven't been back since I left in 2004. Champagne socialists of the worst kind.

[Tony_SLF]

You may have weopons operators in your Army (whatever they are) but in the Army Air Corps we have pilots and aircraft commanders. Harry did his time as an Apache pilot and was upgraded to Apache aircraft commander. A very well respected individual too.

The British military has suffered cuts under this government but God help us if Corbyn's rabble get into power.

Charlie Farley (BA Hons) captained HMS Bronnigton as a Lieutenant. The real Captain was his FO who, I understand from a naval officer of the same generation had to 'advise' more than once to avoid catastrophe.:=

As a Group Captain, he also drove a Hercules right off the end of the runway and crucified the career of a fine pilot, a mere Captain.:mad:

What a bunch of freeloading party goers with an inbred sense of self entitlement, self worth and self importance. Harry may be able to fly but he took the place of someone qualified by dint of hard work and application, not birth.

We need an alternative to these inbreeds and it isn't the likes of the Dalai Jezza, His Most Obsequiousness Tony the Bliar, Pisletine or Kinocchio.:confused:

[The AvgasDinosaur]

Charlie Farley (BA Hons) captained HMS Bronnigton as a Lieutenant. The real Captain was his FO who, I understand from a naval officer of the same generation had to 'advise' more than once to avoid catastrophe.:=

As a Group Captain, he also drove a Hercules right off the end of the runway and crucified the career of a fine pilot, a mere Captain.:mad:

What a bunch of freeloading party goers with an inbred sense of self entitlement, self worth and self importance. Harry may be able to fly but he took the place of someone qualified by dint of hard work and application, not birth.

We need an alternative to these inbreeds and it isn't the likes of the Dalai Jezza, His Most Obsequiousness Tony the Bliar, Pisletine or Kinocchio.:confused:
I think you'll find that the Herk was in fact a BAe 146. It hit the sand on one of the Scottish Islands.
Hope it helps
Be lucky
David

[[email protected]]

Tony - I am guessing you haven't actually had any dealings with the Royal Family given your extreme views. If you had, you would realise just how hard they work on behalf of this country - freeloaders they are not and I bet you couldn't match their work ethic.

[[email protected]]

Why anybody would vote Labour is beyond me. Evil, sadly the public love to listen to promises they want to hear and can't be delivered.
Just listened to George Galloway on Radio 2 having his (and Labour's) economic theories put to the sword by someone who actually knows about economics rather than political bluster.

[The AvgasDinosaur]

I think you'll find that the Herk was in fact a BAe 146. It hit the sand on one of the Scottish Islands.
Hope it helps
Be lucky
David
TONY_SLF I should not have expected accuracy from one of Joseph Vissarionovich's fellow travelers!
Be lucky
David

[Georg1na]

freeloaders they are not and I bet you couldn't match their work ethic


Spot on Crab - for once...............!! A most impressive family once you get to know them.

[Same again]

Harry may be able to fly but he took the place of someone qualified by dint of hard work and application, not birth.

Ahhh the politics of envy. I take it you failed pilot selection? Unlike Harry who passed Officer selection, attended Sandhurst, served with the Household Cavalry, and was a Forward Air Controller in Afghanistan. He subsequently applied for Army Pilot training, passed selection and a year long pilot training course then the Apache conversion course followed by further tours in Afghanistan. Once he had reached the required experience level he qualified as an Apache aircraft commander. A very likeable young man, well-respected officer and a very competent pilot.

What have you done with your life so far Mr SLF?

[Fareastdriver]

Judging by his profile; not a lot.

[nigelh]

Tony SLF .....
He can actually fly very well ( as they both can ) and had to work very hard to get his wings . Your rant says much more about you than it does about him !!!

[JBL99]

Reading Tony SLF's other posts, I'd wager he's not a pilot?

[Cyclic Hotline]

Charlie Farley (BA Hons) captained HMS Bronnigton as a Lieutenant. The real Captain was his FO who, I understand from a naval officer of the same generation had to 'advise' more than once to avoid catastrophe.:=

As a Group Captain, he also drove a Hercules right off the end of the runway and crucified the career of a fine pilot, a mere Captain.:mad:

What a bunch of freeloading party goers with an inbred sense of self entitlement, self worth and self importance. Harry may be able to fly but he took the place of someone qualified by dint of hard work and application, not birth.

We need an alternative to these inbreeds and it isn't the likes of the Dalai Jezza, His Most Obsequiousness Tony the Bliar, Pisletine or Kinocchio.:confused:

Emma Dead Toad, is that actually you writing this stuff???

[Torquetalk]

Stalin Russia ! maybe we need to leave the country now ! very very concerning.

Is it you Donald?

[DOUBLE BOGEY]

T-SLF.....probably has a micro penis to boot!

[9BIT]

T-SLF.....probably has a micro penis to boot!

I've been told that's an absolute fact of non-helicopter pilots

[welshwaffu]

Well at least John Woodcock set the record straight.


It's so easy to have a pop at the royals knowing that they'll not do a 'Donald' and fire a twitter salvo back. Harry didn't have a say in his choice of parents but he probably did in his chosen career.


Anyone who puts on a uniform and serves this country trying to clear up the sh1t that politicians get us into, certainly gets my respect.


How many sons / daughters of current MPs are serving and in harms way at the moment?

[jolihokistix]

I'm a Dead Toad, did you say?

[The AvgasDinosaur]

............................................................


How many sons / daughters of current MPs are serving and in harms way at the moment?
more to the point how many of the current crop (of any political persuasion) of £70,000+ p.a. part timers with unlimited perks and huge expenses have worn the colours and put themselves in harms way ?
Who are the real freeloaders ? Not the brave young man in the Apache helicopter.
There's enough danger out there without the risk of being shot in the back by some parliamentary :mad::mad: whose freedom of speech has been hard earned and rigorously protected by courageous youngsters irrespective of birth right for generations.
Her letter of resignation should begin "I'm sorry and end thank you" but it won't.
Be lucky
David

[parabellum]

Harry may be able to fly but he took the place of someone qualified by dint of hard work and application, not birth.


Utter bollocks! The attrition rate throughout the process from the eye muscle balance test right through to 'wings' is such that there is unlikely to be a surplus of applicants, so no question of Harry taking anyone else's place. No idea what the internal requirement of the AAC is for selection to go on the Apache but suffice to say, given the role of the aircraft and that it was on active service, there would have been no room for 'passengers', every pass would be a genuine pass.


Careful you don't drown in your own bile Tony_SLF.

[melmothtw]

Utter bollocks! The attrition rate throughout the process from the eye muscle balance test right through to 'wings' is such that there is unlikely to be a surplus of applicants, so no question of Harry taking anyone else's place. No idea what the internal requirement of the AAC is for selection to go on the Apache but suffice to say, given the role of the aircraft and that it was on active service, there would have been no room for 'passengers', every pass would be a genuine pass.


Careful you don't drown in your own bile Tony_SLF.

It must be down to those superior Windsor genes that not one member of the royal family that wanted it has ever failed to be selected for pilot training, and then passed with flying colours and gone on to be a top-notch aviator. Not one.

[[email protected]]

A slightly bitter post melmoth - it is only Andrew, William and Harry that have flown operationally - one with each of the Services and each in a very different role.

I can personally vouch for William's ability as a pilot as I was his Squadron Training Officer when he was on SAR.

[melmothtw]

Charles was also a military pilot. Like I said, not one Windsor that has applied to be a pilot in the UK military has ever failed selection or been chopped during training.

I can personally vouch for William's ability as a pilot as I was his Squadron Training Officer when he was on SAR.

One wonders how difficult it must be to fly a helicopter, since every Windsor who has ever tried seems to be superb at it. Unfailingly.

[ShyTorque]

If one wonders then one has obviously never tried to fly one for one's self.

[Bell_ringer]

Charles was also a military pilot. Like I said, not one Windsor that has applied to be a pilot in the UK military has ever failed selection or been chopped during training.

That's mainly because bad teeth and a receding hairline isn't a failure criteria :E

[melmothtw]

If one wonders then one has obviously never tried to fly one for one's self.

Nope, never have. I've got nothing against Will and Harry - they both seem like thoroughly decent chaps (and Harry's Invictus work is actually pretty inspirational). I'm just not kidding myself that either were given the opportunity to become military helicopter pilots for any other reason than they are royals. I am sure that I would have been laughed out the recruitment office had I shown up with a B in A-level Art and a D in geography and said I wanted to be an Apache pilot.

[[email protected]]

If you had passed the aptitude tests (as they did) you would have got in with those qualifications - I did with far less.

Charles already had his PPL(A) and flew himself to Cranwell for RAF jet training.

[melmothtw]

If you had passed the aptitude tests (as they did) you would have got in with those qualifications

Give over, they were never going to fail the aptitude tests or any other 'tests' that were put in front of them.

...you would have got in with those qualifications - I did with far less

I'm guessing from your 'crab' moniker that you are (former) RAF? You were really selected for RAF officer/air crew selection with "far less" than two very poor A-levels (one of which was in art)? If that's true I take my hat off to you, but can only assume that you joined at a time when pilot spots weren't at quite the premium they were when the HRHs signed up.

Charles already had his PPL(A) and flew himself to Cranwell for RAF jet training.

Does everyone who has a PPL(A) get to fly themselves to Cranwell for RAF jet training? Perhaps that should have been my way in...

[Cazalet33]

Charles already had his PPL(A) and flew himself to Cranwell for RAF jet training.

Buggah! I wish I'd had that kind of of money and 'pull' when I arrived.

I went by train and was met by a Service minibus which was driven by a very sirly Corporal..

[Fareastdriver]

You were really selected for RAF officer/air crew selection with "far less" than two very poor A-levels
I managed eighteen years as a bomber/tanker and then helicopter pilot with the RAF with three 'O' levels.

[melmothtw]

You joined and served as an officer? I'm guessing from your moniker that it wasn't any time recently. Under current requirements, you would need two A-levels as a minimum according to the RAF website. I suspect given the numbers that apply, you would need more than 'pass' grades in art and geography, and a decent degree as well.

Of course, when you did O levels fareastdriver they were probably as hard as A-levels and a degree today. Maybe crab too...

[Cazalet33]

In my day (very earliest 1970's) it was at least two "A" levels (I did the Scottish version: Highers) and at least five O Grades.

At the time, it was approximately the same as University Entrance, but the with the add-on fun bit of a five day membership at Biggin Hill Sports & Gaming Club.

[[email protected]]

I'm guessing from your 'crab' moniker that you are (former) RAF? You were really selected for RAF officer/air crew selection with "far less" than two very poor A-levels (one of which was in art)? If that's true I take my hat off to you, but can only assume that you joined at a time when pilot spots weren't at quite the premium they were when the HRHs signed up.
one grade D A level in accounts and a mixture of O level and GCSE grade 1, totalling 5 - it was the bare minimum academically but I passed Officer and aircrew selection for both RN (AIB) and RAF - the RAF made the best offer.

I was lucky and got what I wanted - to be a helicopter pilot - in the days when the chop rate was significant and they could pick and choose who they wanted (early 80's). Just goes to show that what is required to be a pilot isn't always academic qualifications (the number of graduates that were chopped in my day was very high).

32 years later (all spent in flying posts) I retired but continue to fly and instruct.

As William and Harry prove - exam results do not make the man (or the pilot) - that is due to far more factors so perhaps you can stop being so disrespectful of two guys who have already done far more for their country than you ever will.

[ShyTorque]

I was qualified for a permanent commission in the mid 1970s with A levels in Maths and Physics. The academic requirements for selection as pilot remain to this day at two A levels. Definitely no need for a degree. There's a lot more to military piloting than higher academics.

[melmothtw]

As William and Harry prove - exam results do not make the man (or the pilot) - that is due to far more factors...

We agree on that crab, the 'more factors' in Wil's and Harry's case being their royal status.

As I said in my earlier post I have no beef with either of them or the work that they have done for this country (though to be fair, doing work for the country is kind of in the job description, and the least I would expect from a royal family).

The point is, however, that once they had decided they were going to be military pilots the establishment and all that that entails was going to bend over backwards to make sure that they became military pilots because of who they are. If you're ok with that, then no problem. I'm not, which is why I said so.

[Heliringer]

Nope, never have. I've got nothing against Will and Harry - they both seem like thoroughly decent chaps (and Harry's Invictus work is actually pretty inspirational). I'm just not kidding myself that either were given the opportunity to become military helicopter pilots for any other reason than they are royals. I am sure that I would have been laughed out the recruitment office had I shown up with a B in A-level Art and a D in geography and said I wanted to be an Apache pilot.

Don't forget the drugs he took.Prince Harry: I took drugs | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-94482/Prince-Harry-I-took-drugs.html)

Now if I had walked in to the CIO with crap academic quals and admitted to drug use, would I be selected for a commission?

Not a chance is the answer.

We all know it but the drones will find some reason to make it right in this case.

[air pig]

more to the point how many of the current crop (of any political persuasion) of £70,000+ p.a. part timers with unlimited perks and huge expenses have worn the colours and put themselves in harms way ?
Who are the real freeloaders ? Not the brave young man in the Apache helicopter.
There's enough danger out there without the risk of being shot in the back by some parliamentary :mad::mad: whose freedom of speech has been hard earned and rigorously protected by courageous youngsters irrespective of birth right for generations.
Her letter of resignation should begin "I'm sorry and end thank you" but it won't.
Be lucky
David

Present members of the HoC and HoL some who are stiill serving.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_veterans_in_British_politics

[Fareastdriver]

It's their grandma's train set. Why can't they play with it?

[Heliringer]

It's their grandma's train set. Why can't they play with it?


It's the British peoples train set.

[[email protected]]

So the fact that I, as an ex-RAF QHI (also served with AAC), can attest to their flying abilities and that their selection and training afforded them no privileges at all, doesn't give you a clue as to how far from the mark you are in judging them?

I think the drones are those who won't let the truth get in the way of their political bigotry because it doesn't suit their version of the story.

I'd like to see either of you (melmoth and heliringer) pass the ground and air check ride that I gave William on his last operational SAR tour - guess what? It was exactly the same as the check rides given to the other 30 pilots on the Sqn and he was far from being at the bottom of the pile.

Privilege doesn't cut it in the mountains at night in poor weather and he has been there many times as the Captain and handling pilot - not something you let little rich boys do.

You won't see past your blinkered anti-monarchy views for whatever reasons I don't care to fathom.

[melmothtw]

So the fact that I, as an ex-RAF QHI (also served with AAC), can attest to their flying abilities and that their selection and training afforded them no privileges at all, doesn't give you a clue as to how far from the mark you are in judging them?

I think the drones are those who won't let the truth get in the way of their political bigotry because it doesn't suit their version of the story.

I'd like to see either of you (melmoth and heliringer) pass the ground and air check ride that I gave William on his last operational SAR tour - guess what? It was exactly the same as the check rides given to the other 30 pilots on the Sqn and he was far from being at the bottom of the pile.

Privilege doesn't cut it in the mountains at night in poor weather and he has been there many times as the Captain and handling pilot - not something you let little rich boys do.

You won't see past your blinkered anti-monarchy views for whatever reasons I don't care to fathom.

You're missing the point crab. I will take your word for it that their status afforded them no privileges with regard to their training and that they are both highly competent pilots. In all likelihood though (going by their frankly mediocre academic achievements up to that point) neither of them would have been given the opportunity had they not been royals.

As to 'drones not letting the truth get in the way of their political bigotry because it doesn't suit their version of the story', we are in full agreement.

[The AvgasDinosaur]

Present members of the HoC and HoL some who are stiill serving.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_veterans_in_British_politics
Thank you Ma'am or Sir.
Considerably more than I would have thought.
Be lucky
David

[[email protected]]

You're missing the point crab No, Harry will have served with many other pilots in the AAC who had limited academic qualifications and very possibly a dodgy past - the AAC, up until recently, took Corporals into flying training and a significant number of them went on to be operational aircraft commanders before comissioning and becoming Officers.

I understand that you have to believe that two privately educated, well mannered, intelligent young men couldn't possibly have got in on their own merits but it happens every day to normal people with the bare minimum qualifications.

[melmothtw]

No, Harry will have served with many other pilots in the AAC who had limited academic qualifications and very possibly a dodgy past - the AAC, up until recently, took Corporals into flying training and a significant number of them went on to be operational aircraft commanders before comissioning and becoming Officers.

I understand that you have to believe that two privately educated, well mannered, intelligent young men couldn't possibly have got in on their own merits but it happens every day to normal people with the bare minimum qualifications.

Didn't say anything about them being privately educated. I am myself so really don't have a chip on either shoulder about that. And again I have nothing against them personally - I would agree with everything you said about them.

Look, when it comes to the royals and military flying there is one of three things going on:

1. Every Windsor is a natural born aviator, and there is never any question as to them being selected for pilot training or excelling at it once selected.

2. Military flying just isn't that difficult, and anyone can do it.

3. They get given the opportunity regardless of their ability, because of who they are.

There is no fourth option.

Now, you choose to believe option 1. I believe it to be option 3. I don't think there's going to be any meeting of minds on the subject, so there we go.

[Sakabian]

I much prefer multi-choice.

The answer is 2 isn't it?

[nigelh]

I can assure you crab is quite correct .... If anything the bar was set higher for them . No favours . i know it to be true but I guess if you want to believe otherwise that your right !!!

[melmothtw]

I can assure you crab is quite correct .... If anything the bar was set higher for them . No favours . i know it to be true but I guess if you want to believe otherwise that your right !!!


Bar set higher, you say? Well, there we go then - superior Windsor genes it is then.

[tescoapp]

I can't see anything special being done for them to be honest training or standards wise.

Price Edwards left the Royals after 4 months no cutting back of standards there.

I wouldn't be surprised if the lads were members of this forum either.

[The AvgasDinosaur]

Can't comment about Helicopters and Prince Henry but when his brother decided to ride a motorbike he had to do the full metropolitan police advanced bike course and by all accounts passed it by a considerable margin with great finesse. to the intense chagrin of a very small number who doubted he could do it. Trust me on a police driving course there is nowhere to hide. Cant see the military cutting corners for either of them.
Be lucky
David
P.S. So did his protection team !

[PPRuNeUser0211]

Melmoth,

I'm not of the 'old guard', though some of the yoof knocking around might disagree. While I'm fortunate enough to have some half decent exam results, 3 of my colleagues at Linton had the 'minimum requirements' set by the recruitment bods at the time. Didn't do them any harm (decent FJ pilots, though a couple did become QFI's).

Also, flying does have a tendency to 'run in the genes' in much the same way that sporting families tend to have sporting kids . Some of it is nurture and some of it is nature, but a lot of it is self belief.
Seriously, there's a chip on that shoulder. Let it go. They're both good lads in their own right (lucky enough to have worked with both of them) who would have no issues if their surname was Smith.

[Rotate too late]

Didn't say anything about them being privately educated. I am myself so really don't have a chip on either shoulder about that. And again I have nothing against them personally - I would agree with everything you said about them.

Look, when it comes to the royals and military flying there is one of three things going on:

1. Every Windsor is a natural born aviator, and there is never any question as to them being selected for pilot training or excelling at it once selected.

2. Military flying just isn't that difficult, and anyone can do it.

3. They get given the opportunity regardless of their ability, because of who they are.

There is no fourth option.

Now, you choose to believe option 1. I believe it to be option 3. I don't think there's going to be any meeting of minds on the subject, so there we go.

I would also make the point that the Air Corps milked the exposure for all it was worth, so it really was a two way street. Harry had to put in the hard yards, end of. Try walking one of the Poles then returning for a two week Ex in a tent ooop north. There are NO FREE RIDES in an Apache.

[Cazalet33]

the Air Corps milked the exposure for all it was worth
https://s1.postimg.org/9lmb3rrij3/Smiler.jpg

[Bing]

Now if I had walked in to the CIO with crap academic quals and admitted to drug use, would I be selected for a commission?

I did, I mean the drugs thing didn't come up until the AIB but they seemed to be more suspicious of the one candidate who swore he'd never tried them.

[[email protected]]

There is no fourth option.
the fourth one is the one you won't see, even though you don't know them and have no idea what they went through to join up.

The fourth option is that they were inevitably going to join the military (that happens in plenty of families) they both wanted to fly and they both had to meet the entry criteria (medical, academic and selection tests), then they both worked hard during training and met the same or higher standards than their course-mates.

However, melmoth, you seem to know better :ugh: hope you are wearing your tinfoil hat so the security services can't spy on you for thinking anti-royal thoughts - it is all part of a conspiracy isn't it?

[melmothtw]

the fourth one is the one you won't see, even though you don't know them and have no idea what they went through to join up.

The fourth option is that they were inevitably going to join the military (that happens in plenty of families) they both wanted to fly and they both had to meet the entry criteria (medical, academic and selection tests), then they both worked hard during training and met the same or higher standards than their course-mates.

However, melmoth, you seem to know better :ugh: hope you are wearing your tinfoil hat so the security services can't spy on you for thinking anti-royal thoughts - it is all part of a conspiracy isn't it?

That's actually the first option crab, but hey ho.

[[email protected]]

Every Windsor is a natural born aviator, and there is never any question as to them being selected for pilot training or excelling at it once selected. That was your actual first option - they would not have been selected for pilot training without passing that selection process on their own merits.

There are very few natural born aviators (and neither prince is), people just work hard during training to achieve the standard.

I'm sure your prejudice won't let you accept that.

Would you be happier that they spent their whole lives as playboys because that would satisfy your green-eyed gaze at those young men whose lives (in your view) are a constant stream of privilege and elitist opportunity?

[Sloppy Link]

Ex AAC commissioned from the ranks. HIstory O level (B) and Maths GCSE (Grade 2). Education is a tangible yardstick of ability to learn but a lack of educational certificates are not proof of an inability to learn.

[Nige321]

Melmoth
I've always had the greatest admiration and respect for your writing over the years.

You've just trashed your reputation...

[melmothtw]

Sorry to hear that Nige. Before I post next time, I'll be sure to check that my views tally with yours and others to avoid any unpleasantness.

[jellycopter]

I'm certain there was no reduction in standards for William and Harry when they went through military selection and training. However, there was one particular thing where they did indeed receive 'special' treatment.

Prior to them attending the DHFS helicopter course, the course did not comply with CAA/JAA requirements for PPL(h). Quite a lot of work was done to ensure the course became compliant so that William and Harry could get their PPL(h) without any further training. Things like a qualifying solo cross country navex, vortex ring recovery training in the simulator, revisions to the ground briefings to include LTE and an air law exam were included. This work would not have been done, had PPL(h)s not been a secondary target for the Royal brothers.

Prior to their attendance, the UK military had pretty much actively discouraged their pilots from getting licenses and certainly had not moved the course goalposts to fit. Indeed, several years after they left, with the onset of EASA regulations, guess what? The course is no longer compliant and the military have no interest in making licenses a priority for our serving lads and lasses (at least that was the case 12 months ago, and I've no reason to suspect that it's changed).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not having a pop at the Royals here. I just dislike the sycophantic way individuals within the military hierarchy moved heaven and earth to accommodate the Royals, when they wouldn't move an inch to accommodate, or reward, the career aviator/soldier.

[[email protected]]

With you on that one jelly - we have been badly let down by our senior staff regarding training equivalence - all because they are paranoid about people leaving once they get a licence.

How well has that worked then?

[Fareastdriver]

Military flying just isn't that difficult, and anyone can do it.

You have trashed your argument.

[Cazalet33]

Military flying just isn't that difficult, and anyone can do it.

Buggah! Buggah!!

[melmothtw]

I'm certain there was no reduction in standards for William and Harry when they went through military selection and training. However, there was one particular thing where they did indeed receive 'special' treatment.

Prior to them attending the DHFS helicopter course, the course did not comply with CAA/JAA requirements for PPL(h). Quite a lot of work was done to ensure the course became compliant so that William and Harry could get their PPL(h) without any further training. Things like a qualifying solo cross country navex, vortex ring recovery training in the simulator, revisions to the ground briefings to include LTE and an air law exam were included. This work would not have been done, had PPL(h)s not been a secondary target for the Royal brothers.

Prior to their attendance, the UK military had pretty much actively discouraged their pilots from getting licenses and certainly had not moved the course goalposts to fit. Indeed, several years after they left, with the onset of EASA regulations, guess what? The course is no longer compliant and the military have no interest in making licenses a priority for our serving lads and lasses (at least that was the case 12 months ago, and I've no reason to suspect that it's changed).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not having a pop at the Royals here. I just dislike the sycophantic way individuals within the military hierarchy moved heaven and earth to accommodate the Royals, when they wouldn't move an inch to accommodate, or reward, the career aviator/soldier.

The establishment bending over backwards for the royals was precisely my point. Here is an example. Some may believe this is where it began and ended. I suspect not.

Separately, that was never my argument fareastdriver. Go back and read the post again if you care to. Or don't.

It is because I don't believe military flying to be easy and because I don't believe that every Windsor is a natural born aviatior that I suggest that one or all of them had a leg up to get on the ladder, so to speak.

[[email protected]]

It is because I don't believe military flying to be easy and because I don't believe that every Windsor is a natural born aviatior that I suggest that one or all of them had a leg up to get on the ladder, so to speak.
so by that logic, how do you explain that they both served on front-line squadrons where they were not protected or nannied and fulfilled all the same duties as their compatriots?

Could it just be that they were good enough to cope with the demands of military flying and that their lineage mattered not a jot?

William did the same number of SAR shifts as the other pilots (as well as his royal duties) and captained the aircraft with a variety of experienced and inexperienced co pilots and crews - when on duty he could be called out day or night regardless of the weather, at one of the busiest and most demanding SAR flights - how on earth does your presumed leg up give him any advantage there?

[melmothtw]

Ok, we're beginning to go round in circles a little bit here.

Leaving Wils out if it for now (the thread is after all about Harry), how well he performed his flying duties or otherwise or how well he coped with his military duties or otherwise is immaterial to my argument that he would never have been given the opportunity had he not been a royal.

On the subject of Wils. You flew with him so I'll believe you when you say he was a highly competent pilot. My attestation was never that no Windsor could fly a military aircraft, but that it is highly dubious that they could all fly a military aircraft. The fact that all of those that decided they would become military pilots became military pilots, without exception, suggests to me at least that they were perhaps not operating on the same level playing field as everybody else. Clear?

[Bell_ringer]

No one, or next to no one, cares about your little crusade. You've tried to repeatedly make a point and failed dismally. Move on with what little dignity you have left.
I'm not a fan of royalty but recognise the relevance, more so recognise a whiner past their sell-by date.
:rolleyes:

[melmothtw]

No one, or next to no one, cares about your little crusade. You've tried to repeatedly make a point and failed dismally. Move on with what little dignity you have left.
I'm not a fan of royalty but recognise the relevance, more so recognise a whiner past their sell-by date.
:rolleyes:

Ok, bellringer and cab. Throughout this thread I have tried to put across my arguments in as civilised and polite a manner as I can. You don't agree with them, fair enough.

I have ignored the personal jibes about tin hats and the rest of it, and sought to play the ball rather than the man.

You both chose a different route, but I guess that's just the internet.

Best

[[email protected]]

he would never have been given the opportunity had he not been a royal. so if he wasn't a royal, why wouldn't he have been able to fly in the military? We have established it is quite manageable with far fewer qualifications than he has so what is your actual point?

Just because YOU don't think he should have been given the opportunity because he is a royal doesn't mean he wouldn't have had that opportunity as a peasant.

If you don't like the argument, don't start it in the first place.

[parabellum]

Interesting to note that Andrew, Wills and Harry all went a technically difficult flying path and all three did well!


Back in the dim and distant late 1950's/early 1960's one did need a respectable handful of 'O' levels and possibly an 'A' to go straight for a commission on joining but, having joined as an OR, then once one had passed ACE 1st Class and was suitably recommended, one could apply for a commission, even Cert A part 1 and 2 in the cadets was counted towards a commission!

[paco]

That's pretty much what I did, though I didn't bother with the commission (bigger mess bills) :). In Transport & Movements (RCT), recommended, got sergeant at 22. Finished off my Os and As (yes, that far back) on the flying course. The beauty of the military is that they are able to see potential and work on it without necessarily requiring formal qualifications.

I do get your point melmoth, but there have been many from privileged backgrounds who didn't make it either.

phil

[Bing]

The fact that all of those that decided they would become military pilots became military pilots, without exception, suggests to me at least that they were perhaps not operating on the same level playing field as everybody else.

Why not? They're just a visible example of it, I'm certainly aware of at least one father and son who're both fast jet pilots, it's just that as they're not royalty you won't have heard of them. I'm sure if you had the time you could go through Air Force and Navy lists for the last few decades and find more examples.

[ShyTorque]

The father of one of my RAF student helicopter pilots was an RAF squadron commander at the time. My protegee became a pilot on that same squadron, when "Dad" was in charge. He later surpassed his father's rank by quite a long way (and mine by even more). Nepotism/favouritism? Definitely not; it must have been a genetic trait. Or, of course, something to do with my training....:p.

But I was a mere direct entrant pilot - there was no private schooling or uni education and therefore no Cranwell for me. I came from what could be described as a humble working class background; no-one in my family had aviation connections and were about as far from "royal" as one could be.

But as far as the true royals being allowed into the armed services, Good on them; as far as I'm concerned it gives them the credibility they need and deserve and the present generation seem to be good at it.

They can't help their birthright / family heritage any more than anyone else can. To try to belittle them out of what can only be seen as some sort of twisted jealousy says more than enough about those doing so.

[John Eacott]

My attestation was never that no Windsor could fly a military aircraft, but that it is highly dubious that they could all fly a military aircraft. The fact that all of those that decided they would become military pilots became military pilots, without exception, suggests to me at least that they were perhaps not operating on the same level playing field as everybody else. Clear?

Cobblers.

My grandfather was a private pilot, my Dad was a night fighter/shipping strike pilot and I'm a helicopter pilot. Number one son has the skills but doesn't want to.

Much as skills such as art, writing and science aptitudes run down through generations of a family so the judgmental and manipulative skills for a pilot can be passed on.

The Windsors have shown that they have these skills, as attested by those who know.

[SuperF]

plenty of Fathers and sons, and even grandsons in NZ flying helicopters, or planes. Some in Military, many not, as our military isn't that big. Maybe a bit of aptitude for similar types of occupations, maybe something else.

I look at it like sports. The number of Fathers, sons, cousins etc that have played for the All Blacks, or other top sports teams, must say something for genetics, determination, or maybe its all nepotism!

[SWBKCB]

Much as skills such as art, writing and science aptitudes run down through generations of a family so the judgmental and manipulative skills for a pilot can be passed on.

Add on motivation - who wants to fail at what your Dad/big brother can do? :=

[Mil-26Man]

Add on motivation - who wants to fail at what your Dad/big brother can do? :=


Dad/big brother/uncle/grandfather/ and whatever George IV and Edward VII were to him. All on their merits, of course. Ahem.

[Same again]

Dad/big brother/uncle/grandfather/ and whatever George IV and Edward VII were to him. All on their merits, of course. Ahem.

All of whom had little choice in their destinies. The latter two were also denied the opportunity to become pilots due to the lack of aeroplanes and Edward was denied a military career as it was vetoed by his mother - who held some sway in these matters. Get a life Mil-26child.

[Ascend Charlie]

Some other traits are followed along family lines too. Wasn't it Chucky who said he didn't want to be the only Prince of Wales who didn't have a mistress?

How about Yung Fat Wun who followed Daddy and Grand-daddy in the despot business?