Is ATPL(F) Needed

[tobster911]

Good afternoon,
Just a quick question really. As I understand it, a (f)ATPL is not really any use until it becomes unfrozen, and therefore a proper ATPL which allows you to be PIC. Does this mean then, that, in theory, one could gain a first officer position with an airline in a Multi-Crew Environment with just a CPL(A) and Type Rating, but there would be no progression opportunity until said first officer had taken and passed the ATPL theory?
Thank you

[WASALOADIE]

A CPL is what is commonly known as a (f) ATPL until 1500 Hrs is achieved. You can be PIC in Non-Commercial operations or in an aircraft certified for single pilot operations, I just means you cannot be PIC of a Multi-pilot aircraft. But you can be PIC under supervision.

[parkfell]

You would also require the instrument rating attached to your CPL(A)

Historically you would do the CPL(A) written exams, be issued with a CPL/IR
Prior to 1/7/1999 no MCC would be required and you would do the type rating for the multi crew ac. Confined to the RHS until you passed the ATPL ~ navigation block and had the appropriate flying experience.

Sitting the CPL exams are a thing of the past for the aspiring airline pilot. ATPL, now 14 exams the standard way.

[wiggy]

Can't swear to the exact dates but it was as parkfell describes. We had to individuals who were "confined" to the RHS until they had done the ATPL academics.

[Alex Whittingham]

Just to be clear, you need the ATPL theory exams to satisfy an ICAO requirement that you need ATPL theory irrespective of which license you hold to get a type rating on a multi-crew aircraft. In days of yore CPL holding co-pilots without ATPL theory such as on the BA B747 Classic fleet found themselves trapped on type by this rule and, as I recall, many needed to pass ATPL theory in late middle age to upgrade to the B747-400 as it replaced the Classics, even though they knew they were never going to get command.

[Piltdown Man]

I remember several guys who were stuck in the RHS because they took a job rather than carrying on studying. Progression was so rapid that after three or four years they were unhappy they hadn't continued studying but after 10 years really p!ssed off for the same reason. Their numbers had come several times for a command and although very capable they were unable to take their rightful seats only because they had passed their ATPL exams. This was an expensive mistake because both their salaries and eventual pensions were reduced. But they were above me on the seniority list.

[Groundloop]

Lots of airlines would require you to have passed the ATPL theory before offering you a job. They want to know you can do it before they employ you.