Self study disadvantages and how to counter them?

[Krautwald]

Gentlemen,

those of you who did distance learning and self study for the ATPL theory: how did you cope with the disadvantages of learning with less feedback?

Are there any courses that offer additional on-site sessions (like weekends or week-long?)? Did you form study groups?

And generally, which course is regarded the best quality available at the moment?

[nebojsar]

I've took BGS and I must say that syllabus is tailored to learn properly and pass the exams. For additional information I've used aviation books, jeppesen airway manual, CAP's which were mentioned in syllabus + internet search. Generally you can find everything on internet to clarify specific topic. I've left brush up course to very end of learning process so I've asked many questions there. My feel is that sometimes passing exams does not have much in common with learning theory properly, it is more system or way of reasoning. If you take your brush up course earlier you will have a chance to meet people, form a group and go through syllabus with their support.

[Krautwald]

You are surely right about passing exams, but that is actually what I am trying to address. If I could, a full time classroom taught course would be my choice, but my work&location don´t go well with that.

I have this prejudice that a taught course with an experienced pilot instructor means that you have a mentor who will help you become a pilot and think like one. Which is more than "passing exams". So how do people get closer to that ideal when distance self study is all you have.

[inabw]

.. My feel is that sometimes passing exams does not have much in common with learning theory properly, it is more system or way of reasoning.
Hi Mate, please explain me what are you meaning about this phrase; i'm studying with BGS too.

[Central Scrutinizer]

I'm a EASA ATPL distance learner. So far I've passed 8 subjects, all first time passes.

Couldn't be happier about being a self learner, much better than sitting in a classroom for 5 hours a day hearing about the ISA for the 100th time. If you crack the CAE/Oxford books and click through the Bristol Questionbank you'll be fine.

Most of the times when I had doubts about tricky exam questions I realized it was either the Questionbank that got it wrong, EASA that got it wrong, or the instructors not being able to explain the issue properly.

The only real disadvantage could be a lack of discipline to sit down and study, but if you've been trough university before this shouldn't be too hard to counter. If you're the kind of person who can't concentrate at all, get easily distracted or just don't have the discipline, it's a good moment now to try and stop that. Aviation is a lot about self-learning.

[superflanker]

@Central Scrutinizer, what would you recommend, grouping subjects into large groups or the opposite? My first sitting will be HPL, AL, OPS & MET and i don't know if put GNAV in there or not.

[paco]

I would put ops with performance & POF (they seriously mix questions) and flight planning last. Radio Nav with comms and G Nav with instruments.

Maybe add law to ops

Phil

[Krautwald]

Ok, so nobody feels they are too far away from pilot reality when studying alone?
I am not questioning this - in fact, if this way is as good as any, it would be a huge relief for me.

Just want to make sure I get proper practical mentoring somewhere on the way, but maybe that can be done all sufficiently during the actual flying part after passing theory?

[nebojsar]

Hi Mate, please explain me what are you meaning about this phrase; i'm studying with BGS too.



Simple, some parts of syllabus are frequently used in questions, some are not, you can see and anticipate what next question will look alike. After few subjects you can create your system to catch up with questions, system that works for you to give a proper answers. So if you did learning in reverse order - first questions, you could avoid big chunk of theory and that is wrong. As result proper learning will bring you from start at 70-75% score on mock up, with polishing forgotten parts of theory but you will be complete with knowledge which is very important. You have many people who just learn qbank and pass.




Just want to make sure I get proper practical mentoring somewhere on the way, but maybe that can be done all sufficiently during the actual flying part after passing theory?


You can always ask instructors during your flying part, also I suggest to write down tricky points and questions and to ask on brush up course. My experience is that during brush up
most of questions were touched even before I've asked, so I think you should be fine.

[Central Scrutinizer]

@Central Scrutinizer, what would you recommend, grouping subjects into large groups or the opposite? My first sitting will be HPL, AL, OPS & MET and i don't know if put GNAV in there or not.

Yeah, I think it's a good idea. HPL, AL and OPS go pretty much together.

I've done 3 sittings so far:

1st: GNAV, MET
2nd: RNAV, INSTR, ICOMMS
3rd: AL, OPS, HPL

For my next 2 sittings I plan as follows:

4th: PERF, M&B, FP&M
5th: POF, AGK, VCOMMS

I think subjects many subjects go together like POF/PERF, the COMMS, MET/FP&M etc, but don't worry too much about this.

As long as you understand the ISA and Altimetry you'll be fine because these appear on virtually EVERY subject xD

[superflanker]

I would put ops with performance & POF (they seriously mix questions) and flight planning last. Radio Nav with comms and G Nav with instruments.

Maybe add law to ops

Phil
So perhaps POF rather than GNAV?

[Central Scrutinizer]

So perhaps POF rather than GNAV?

It's not really important. Don't worry too much about it because the order of the subjects isn't a big deal anyway.

If you feel like doing GNAV with the other subjects you mentioned, go for it. If you feel like you'd rather study POF, that's fine also. Just go with your "guts" and how you believe you will do better based on your preferences/previous knowledge.

[paco]

The order of subjects is a big deal if you are only taking 2 or 3 exams at a time! That's why our syllabus is completely non-standard and all of our notes fit into 800 pages! In the flight planning LOs, for example, it clearly states that this subject should be taken after Air Law and Met.

Yes, do POF rather than GNAV - doing NAV first is completely in the wrong place because (along with ops) it is often a dustbin for odd questions from other subjects and you don't want to come across them too early. The reason we suggest doing Instruments with Nav is because of IRS, which requires knowledge of convergency.

Comms also contains questions that more properly belong with Met.


Phil

[superflanker]

The order of subjects is a big deal if you are only taking 2 or 3 exams at a time! That's why our syllabus is completely non-standard and all of our notes fit into 800 pages! In the flight planning LOs, for example, it clearly states that this subject should be taken after Air Law and Met.

Yes, do POF rather than GNAV - doing NAV first is completely in the wrong place because (along with ops) it is often a dustbin for odd questions from other subjects and you don't want to come across them too early. The reason we suggest doing Instruments with Nav is because of IRS, which requires knowledge of convergency.

Comms also contains questions that more properly belong with Met.

Phil

Thanks for the advice! Actually, CATS recommends Coms with this subjects, but being this my first sitting, I think is better to take more time and study another "big one".

[Alex Whittingham]

That's interesting, we do Nav early on because so much in the other subjects relies on knowledge acquired in General Nav.

[paco]

Don't underestimate comms - there will be questions on compasses, tafs/metars, vhf propagation, etc. We regularly have people taking all 14 at once, and that's usually the only one they fail on because they already have a radio licence and think that's enough.

I hear you about Nav, Alex, but with a few exceptions, we find that what our students have with their PPL is enough to get by until later on except of course, for IRS, which the silly sods have put in the wrong place anyway. Hence we study Instruments in the first module but recommend taking the exam later with G Nav for ATP students.

[nebojsar]

I've used comms as first two exams. Two reasons, first was to boost my confidence with good results ( I had 95 and 100% so gave me boost) and second was to see how real questions on exam match to one I've practiced. I left for last sitting POF and that was mistake I think, it was by far hardest exam for me.

[KayPam]

Don't underestimate comms - there will be questions on compasses, tafs/metars, vhf propagation, etc. We regularly have people taking all 14 at once, and that's usually the only one they fail on because they already have a radio licence and think that's enough.

I hear you about Nav, Alex, but with a few exceptions, we find that what our students have with their PPL is enough to get by until later on except of course, for IRS, which the silly sods have put in the wrong place anyway. Hence we study Instruments in the first module but recommend taking the exam later with G Nav for ATP students.
TAF/METARs, really ? Its a change isn't it ?
Question about metars were in my MET exam.

[paco]

Meaning of BKN? FEW? From TAFs/METARs

Phil

[KayPam]

I did all 240 questions of both the IFR and VFR comms question banks, and I really have no memory of such questions in these topics.

In meteorology there were however numerous questions asking to read and interpret TAF and METARs.. My least favourite ones.. Having to read like 12 of them..