Phenom 300 to "unfreeze" ATPL?

[plinkplinkfizz]

Hi everyone - I hope I'm not covering old ground with this thread. I'm stuck in a sandy place at the moment and looking for some expertise while I'm away from many helpful resources.
I'm the proud owner of a current CPL/IR with a Single Pilot MEP Class rating. I also hold an MCC exemption from my time in Aunty Betty's Stunt Club (Light Blue division)
I'm hoping to work for a company that operates Phenom 300s with a 2-crew policy.
Given that the Phenom 300's MAUW is 8150kg, and the company's ops manual stipulates 2-crew ops, would I be able to do an ATPL Skills Test and therefore "unfreeze" my ATPL if I do a type rating with this operator?
If anyone has the EASA PartFCL reference I'd be eternally grateful.

Many thanks in advance. Blue Skies all...

[tescoapp]

You can log muticrew time with the relevant approvals from the CAA.

To actually sit the ATPL skills test it needs to be in a multicrew type.

[BillieBob]

EASA Part-FCL references as requested:
FCL.520.A ATPL(A) — Skill test
Applicants for an ATPL(A) shall pass a skill test in accordance with Appendix 9 to this Part to demonstrate the ability to perform, as PIC of a multi-pilot aeroplane under IFR, the relevant procedures and manoeuvres with the competency appropriate to the privileges granted.
The skill test shall be taken in the aeroplane or an adequately qualified FFS representing the same type.FCL.010 Definitions
‘Multi-pilot aircraft’:
for aeroplanes, it means aeroplanes certificated for operation with a minimum crew of at least two pilotsThe fact that a single-pilot aeroplane is operated by two pilots does not make it 'multi-pilot' in the context of Part-FCL.

As tescoapp points out, the 500 hours experience requirement for the issue of an ATPL(A) is in multi-pilot operations and not, necessarily, in multi-pilot aeroplanes and so that may be obtained in the Phenom.

[Alex Whittingham]

The Competent Authority may have a different view of that. In the UK the CAA exercised 'discretion' in JAA days by allowing hours accumulated in multi-pilot operations conducted in aircraft certified as single pilot (like the King Air). AFAIK this has now stopped and the aircraft used must be certified as multi-pilot. Unless BillieBob is absolutely certain it would be worth checking with the Authority.

[Lepo]

My understanding is that if you can prove that it's requirement in your company to operate the Phenom 300 with a minimum of 2 pilots you can do the skill test on this type.

Directly from the UK CAA website:
Multi-pilot experience gained in single pilot aircraft

For two pilot operations in single pilot aeroplanes to be accepted as “Multi-pilot operations” you must show evidence that the approval of the operator to carry out the flight included a legal requirement that two pilots acting together was the minimum allowable crew for the flight.

Requirements for issue of an ATPL (A), airline transport pilot licence (aeroplanes) | UK Civil Aviation Authority (http://www.caa.co.uk/Commercial-industry/Pilot-licences/Regulations/ATPL/Requirements-for-issue-of-an-ATPL-(A),-airline-transport-pilot-licence-(aeroplanes)/)

[Alex Whittingham]

Well there you go, thank you.

[BillieBob]

Lepo, you are conflating two issues here. The Regulation requires that the skill test is taken in a multi-pilot aeroplane whereas the necessary experience may be gained in multi-pilot operations. The quote from the CAA website refers specifically to multi-pilot operations and not to the skill test.

[tescoapp]

Its perfectly acceptable to tested for ATPL on the skills test for your first muticrew type.

I will add this is under the UK some other EASA states have different interpretations of the ability to do this.

For example the Swedish will not even allow you to sit the ATPL test unless you are going to fly LHS in a multicrew type. If you are trying to convert an ATPL from another member state to a Swedish one and you have zero hours PIC on a multicrew type they will refuse the transfer.

[Lepo]

Lepo, you are conflating two issues here. The Regulation requires that the skill test is taken in a multi-pilot aeroplane whereas the necessary experience may be gained in multi-pilot operations. The quote from the CAA website refers specifically to multi-pilot operations and not to the skill test.


Billie,

This is what I found in CAP804, Section 4, Part L, Page 51.

Specific Requirements for the Skill Test/Proficiency Check for Multi-pilot Aircraft Type Ratings, for Single-Pilot Aeroplane Type Ratings, when Operated in MultiPilot Operations, for MPL and ATPL

The skill test for a multi-pilot aircraft or a single-pilot aeroplane when operated in multi-pilot operations shall be performed in a multi-crew environment. Another applicant or another type rated qualified pilot may function as second pilot. If an aircraft is used, the second pilot shall be the examiner or an instructor.

So I believe that you can do your skill test in a single pilot aircraft as long as you can prove to the CAA that it's a requirement in your company that this airplane is operated under a multi-crew enviroment.

[portsharbourflyer]

Lepo,

The reference you quote is referring to the test for issue of the type rating not the requirement for the ATPL skills test.

That said you may still be right; the CAA guidance material seems to be poorly presented and it does not actually state if the ATPL skills test has to be taken on a MPA type.

[BillieBob]

portsharbourflyer is correct, the quoted paragraph does not suggest that an ATPL skill test may be completed in a single-pilot aeroplane and FCL.520.A is quite clear that it may not. The paragraph simply lays out the requirements for the conduct of tests/checks for the MPA type rating [or] the SPA type rating when operated in multi-pilot conditions [or] the MPL [or] the ATPL.

It is also worth remembering that it is increasingly dangerous to rely on CAP804. It was withdrawn over a year ago and, therefore, does not reflect any amendments to the Aircrew Regulation or CAA policy decisions since that date.

[tescoapp]

the way it works in the UK is

Frist you do a normal SPA type rating and skills test followed by circuits and you get issued with the type rating and SPA-ME-xxxx-IR.

After you have that in your hand you then do a company LPC/OPC and the examiner signs your ticket for MPA-ME-xxxx-IR. After that you only get that IR.

They don't like and won't allow line pilots both MPA and SPA IR's at the same time operationally. They may allow examiners to hold both if the company fleet operates both roles.

You can for example fly a Kingair Multi crew as PIC on a CPL then get a job on say a J41 as LHS and during the LST include the items of the ATPL skills test and then when you submit your J41 rating will come back on a ATPL with the relevant forms and money submitted.

This is only for the UK, other member states do it differently.

[portsharbourflyer]

End answer then is you can't do the ATPL skill test on the Phenom 300 (as Tescoapp and Billiebob previously stated). 500 kg too light.