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Mutant Mthfr
21st Jul 2017, 01:32
My Chief Pilot insists that I continue operations with the IBF Clogg caution light illuminated and the filter maintenance aid in the red.

I know what the RFM says. :=

What would you do?

ec155mech
21st Jul 2017, 05:27
ask him to put it in writing supported with a OEM document, and if he refuses. he can go fly the bird himself.

ersa
21st Jul 2017, 05:30
Tell him you will submit an ATSB report , see what he says

Ascend Charlie
21st Jul 2017, 05:47
Well, Mutant, let's say you obey him, and go flying.

The machine has a compressor stall and surge and causes damage to the aircraft and scares the cr@p out of the passengers. Whose fault will it be, that he went flying with such warnings showing? And who will wash his hands of it, saying that it is the responsibility of the PIC to ensure the caution panel is clear before taking off?

paco
21st Jul 2017, 05:49
You will also not have any insurance.

Phil

haihio
21st Jul 2017, 06:47
What does IBF stand for?

hueyracer
21st Jul 2017, 06:51
IBF stands for "Inlet Barrier Filter"

https://www.aero-access.com/products/bell-206b-inlet-barrier-filtration-kits.html


As the IBF is an add-on, the aircraft can fly without it pretty easily....so no need to have it......

As you already quoted the manual: If the manual says "Donīt fly", then donīt fly...as easy as this.

If the IBF is not operational, ask the maintenance guys to take it out-then fly without it (if thatīs possible without recertification)...

Heliringer
21st Jul 2017, 07:23
RTB and clean it. Then tell the CP what you did. If he is being a crunt tell him the clients were asking what the light was that was coming on and you don't lie to clients.

A decent CP wouldn't have any problem with that.


If you are out Bush which I guess you are, return to the camp and clean it. It's always a good idea on bush work to carry a spare filter to use while you wait for the dirty one to dry. Then that becomes your spare.

as350nut
21st Jul 2017, 07:24
Not sure on the 206 application but in the as350 there is a "rock catcher mesh" that is removed when the filter goes in, so in bypass this isn't there. Flight in bypass is in a way, an emergency situation ie blocked filter. A new filter can be $ 3-4,000, again not sure on the bell, so can see the problem, but if you carry passengers, you do get paid, so buy a spare filter.

Bell_ringer
21st Jul 2017, 09:22
Removing a Donaldson IBF and cleaning it isn't exactly an expensive or time consuming exercise.
I would be more concerned why this would be problematic for the operator.

Fun Police
21st Jul 2017, 09:36
"if in doubt..."

the aircraft is strapped to you and your passengers asses. what else might they tell you to overlook in the future?

as stated, this does not require large expense or time consuming rectification.

stick to your guns!

fp

army_av8r
21st Jul 2017, 09:50
I certainly agree with your assessment, and not flying with parts or equipment that do not meet the standards. i also have 3000+ hours in bell 206/407/58D. understanding the system and the way in which the cockpit indicator operates is very important in determining whether the aircraft can be flown safely to a maintenance facility or if it needs to be grounded on site. the IBF's are essentially the same as most other types of air filters you might see on a car or in a house. They physically trap dust, dirt, birds, snow or anything else that may attempt to reach the compressor inlet. In the cockpit, most of these aircraft will have a Clog/Bypass switch or indicator to alert the pilot when not enough air is getting thru the filter. It operates on differential pressure and will typically have a static port on the plenum side, and another static port on the outside of the filter housing. When the air pressure inside the plenum drops to a predetermined value, it triggers the Clog light, and the pilot will immediately see that the filter requires service... most often, this is accomplished by "banging out the filter" for a lack of better terms, re applying the filter oil, and reinstalling the filter. Very simple work really, and if operating in the bush, or in the desert, the pilot might want to be familiar with this procedure. So... you have now found yourself in a position where you have the filter light "ON" and you need to return to base, or finish the job. obviously step one is to try simply knocking the dirt out or checking for larger debris, after that, try running a Health Indicator Test(HIT) check. determine if the engine TGT or TOT is still operating better(cooler) than spec, or if it is running hotter than allowable. This will allow you to at least note how much deterioration the filter has caused, if it doesnt pass the Health check, it doesnt fly home, period. If it does pass, it indicates that the filter is allowing enough breathing air to keep the engine cool and that the filter is likely just over the indicating limit for differential pressure. please keep in mind that this post is designed to educate the individuals interested, and assumes maintenance support is not available. It is also written from the mindset of a military pilot, who has been forced to fly these types of filters in very harsh desert conditions. landing in Iraq due to a dirty filter just isn't an option. knowledge of the systems, and a healthy understanding of engine performance will go along way in this scenario. When in doubt, dont take the aircraft!!!

John Eacott
21st Jul 2017, 12:12
A bane of aviation life in Australia are the dictates from operators to restrict pilots from carrying out their obligation to enter unserviceabilities in the Maintenance Release. It seems to evolve (mainly in fixed wing) at an early stage of pilot training and was something I had to get almost every new fixed wing pilot out of the habit when they started working for me. I always suspected it came from the use of privately owned aircraft used by such schools where the owner couldn't afford proper maintenance.

It is patently the pilot's duty to enter a snag into the MR. Should a LAME then sign off the entry the responsibility devolves back to him, but whatever you do resist pressure from any part of management to prevent you carrying out your legal obligation when signing for a helicopter. Your signature in the MR for the preflight means that you've accepted responsibility for the machine and its condition for flying during that day, including another pilot taking over from you for a later trip. And at the end of your flight, it is your obligation to enter any U/S items in the MR, something that cannot be prevented by another person.

MS29513-017
21st Jul 2017, 12:13
Just a couple of things for you knuckle draggers.
IBF filters or most that I have worked on have a limited amount of permitted cleaning cycles.
IE every time you remove and clean its a cycle on the filter.
10 cycles come to mind with the 206 filters from a major suppler having recently replaced one recently due cycles. Cost was 6000 usd approx.
They are not so easy as just to remove and bang out then refit like a car filter.
If you follow the Maint. Instructions there is a very strict inspection, clean and reoil with approved products.
Recently the FAA is taking a stand against them as the manufactures of the IBF's have never supplied there own performance data with these items fitted to say what affect they have on the aircraft.
Read this interesting article
https://www.verticalmag.com/news/faa-policy-change-could-restrict-development-use-of-inlet-barrier-filters/

To the OP looking at it from an engineers view follow the RFM and fly with the bypass door activated. Thats what its there for until they rectify the situation.
.

MS29513-017
21st Jul 2017, 12:19
A bane of aviation life in Australia are the dictates from operators to restrict pilots from carrying out their obligation to enter unserviceabilities in the Maintenance Release. It seems to evolve (mainly in fixed wing) at an early stage of pilot training and was something I had to get almost every new fixed wing pilot out of the habit when they started working for me. I always suspected it came from the use of privately owned aircraft used by such schools where the owner couldn't afford proper maintenance.

It is patently the pilot's duty to enter a snag into the MR. Should a LAME then sign off the entry the responsibility devolves back to him, but whatever you do resist pressure from any part of management to prevent you carrying out your legal obligation when signing for a helicopter. Your signature in the MR for the preflight means that you've accepted responsibility for the machine and its condition for flying during that day, including another pilot taking over from you for a later trip. And at the end of your flight, it is your obligation to enter any U/S items, something that cannot be stopped by another person.

Agree completely. You are never helping anyone by not writing it up. As a engineer I can always say if there was no defect entered then there was never an issue and do nothing.
If its a non issue the engineer can always sign it of to say that the system was checked and functional.
Plus you never have the history of a recurring defect or something in that system a bit deeper that might be causing issues because there is no history.
Big fleet operators will always beat into you to enter defects.
Its in no bodies interest to be flying around in a sub par aircraft.

army_av8r
21st Jul 2017, 12:46
I hope everyone here understands, especially the OP, that I do not advocate flying a broken aircraft. There is a big difference in returning to base for maintenance, and being told to fly an aircraft that is KNOWN to be sub standard (by the Chief Pilot). SMH. i am simply giving my thoughts and observations from many thousands of hours flying IBF's in Bell helicopters. MS29, you are absolutely correct, the correct maintenance procedure has a detailed step by step process and life cycle for these parts... please forgive my over simplification, it is late here in the Asia. also, please realise that flying with the Bypass door open allows unfiltered sand, dirt, rocks, or really anything on the transmission deck, to enter the compressor. If the filter light has just started to come on, and its obvious that it was due to the environment you are operating in, check you TGT against your TQ and determine if the engine has lost any inlet efficiency. if normal indications exist, i would rather bring the aircraft home, and service the filters, than throw all the sand and dirt from the roof deck into the compressor. Regarding the CP... I would think a one on one (Pilot to Pilot) conversation over a coffee might be a good way to explain your thoughts on operating an aircraft that doesn't meet basic standards. sometimes when you reach those management roles, you start to focus on the wrong aspects of the job, but an honest and good chief pilot will likely be willing to listen and hopefully remember back to the days of being a line pilot. everyone has a boss and a career to look out for unfortunately... but if we, as aviation professionals, can have that open door mentality and discuss issues in a no threat environment, we can excel in all operations.