New A380 plus winglet

[underfire]

This showed up at the Paris Airshow...very interesting.

https://s.yimg.com/lo/api/res/1.2/CHFhWVzWI_LlgJQITVgStg--/YXBwaWQ9eW15O3E9NzU7dz02NDA7c209MTtpbD1wbGFuZQ--/http://globalfinance.zenfs.com/images/US_AHTTP_REUTERS_OLUSBUS_WRAPPER_H_LIVE_NEW/2017-06-17T182146Z_1_LYNXMPED5G0NF_RTROPTP_3_AIRSHOW-PARIS-A380_original.jpg

before the band-aid

http://www.aerotelegraph.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/IMG_530.jpg

Any thoughts on what else the 'plus' entails?

[underfire]

The maximum take-off weight of the A380 increases with the plus version to 578 tons. This means that airlines can decide whether they want to transport up to 80 passengers more on the same range as today, or whether they want to increase the range by 300 nautical miles to 8500 nautical miles

[Skyjob]

https://airbus-h.assetsadobe2.com/is/image/content/dam/products-and-solutions/commercial-aircraft/a380-family/A380plus-Infographic-June-2017.jpg?wid=750&fit=fit,1

Press Release (http://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-releases/en/2017/06/airbus-presents-the-a380plus.html)

[rotornut]

Airbus Details A380-plus Modifications | Paris Air Show 2017 content from Aviation Week (http://aviationweek.com/paris-air-show-2017/airbus-details-a380-plus-modifications?NL=AW-021&Issue=AW-021_20170619_AW-021_181&sfvc4enews=42&cl=article_1&utm_rid=CPEN1000002528188&utm_campaign=10506&utm_medium=email&elq2=cb308e9234da494785028dd0dae1de37)

[KRviator]

Polish a turd it's still a turd....:mad:

[atakacs]

What suprises me (at least for the winglets) is that this well know aerodynamics. Why was it not part of the original design?!

[tdracer]

Winglet design is constantly evolving - Airbus apparently thought the wingtip fences were near state of the art when the A380 was designed. Note that the "split" winglet is a fairly recent development, and the split winglet on the 737 Max is not the same as the one available on the 737NG.
That being said, Airbus does appear to be a bit slow on the uptake regarding A380 winglets. I have to assume it'll require some fairly major structural updates to the wing to incorporate...

[underfire]

Winglet design keeps evolving, then again...

https://thedesignair.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/5336760201_63eff10a67_z.jpg

[Iron Duke]

Good question ....

I would have thought the aerodynamics were identical .. regardless of whether the type starts with an A or a B ....

I can understand improvements ... but I would have thought they would almost mirror each others research ...

The wingtip "triangle" on the A380 is the same as the A320 30 years ago ... ??

With the MPA B737 maybe the raked wingtips have better turbulence penetration characteristics for low level surface probes ...

[waren9]

and yet the new a380plus tips look remarkably similar to the 737 max

[porch monkey]

And they both bear an interesting resemblance to the MD-11. Not much that is truly new........

[Cough]

Sticky Fingers - This is my best guess! The B737 Poseidon is probably more efficient for the mission, but the 38m wingspan won't fit on your average shorthaul gate - hence the Scimitars for the NG...

[Sticky Fingers]

And they both bear an interesting resemblance to the MD-11. Not much that is truly new........

It's starting to look like the original MD-12 concept.

http://livredecolagem.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/md-12.jpg

Cough - you might have nailed it for B737...The Poseidon has an 11ft increase in span compared to the Pax Version.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2008/05/07/2004399739.gif

- But it still doesn't explain why the A350 has Blended winglets and Boeing uses Raked Tips on their new generation long haul fleet.

[FlightDetent]

My aerodynamics / aircraft structure notes advise that additional wingtip extention OF THE SAME LENGTH as a winglet - endplate.
- has better efficiency
- is structurally lighter
- is more economical to design.

So option 1 always, as long as the resulting wingspan is not a problem. Oh, save from this little flutter thing.

787 wingspan = 60 m
350 wingspan = 65 m

Looking at both, still, the distinction that one is a straight wing and other a winglet is not that obvious to make.

[tdracer]

Cough pretty much nailed it. Boeing believes the raked wingtips to be a better solution than winglets, wingspan permitting. Hence the folding wingtips on the 777X. For the commercial 737, adding 10+ feet to the wingspan would create problems fitting into the gates, therefor winglets are used.
The winglets require quite a bit of structural strengthening of the wing - a buddy who worked the 757/767 winglets for Aviation Partners said it cost ~$1 million to install the wing structure that allowed the winglets to be added - it's not just a bolt on addition to add winglets.

[Matvey]

Sticky Fingers - This is my best guess! The B737 Poseidon is probably more efficient for the mission, but the 38m wingspan won't fit on your average shorthaul gate - hence the Scimitars for the NG...
Correct. The ADG-III/ICAO-C gate box can accommodate wingspans up to 36m/118'

The folding wingtips on the 777X are to keep it within the ADG-V/ICAO-E 65m/213' box. Boeing is choosing to fit their airplane to existing airport infrastructure (nearly every airport can take Code E) rather than rely on the remaining airport authorities who have already opted once not to upgrade to Code F to do so in the future.

[stilton]

Read somewhere that regular winglets were not used on the P8 as
they are more vulnerable to ice build up when you're spending a lot
of time stooging around in cloud at the lower levels.

[Mechta]

The A380 had no immediate competition when launched, so adding winglets at the time was unnecessary. Now there are plenty around the airlines, Airbus can use the winglet as a way for airlines to say 'We've got the latest A380s, not old ones like those over there.' Hence sales of the latest model to those customers who want the most up to date looking fleet.

With regard to the P-8 Poseidon, it is a maritime patrol aircraft, which on occasions will rely on Mk1 eyeball to look for people and objects lost, or not wanting to be found, at sea. Putting a great big view blocker out on the tips, behind which things might get hidden and which also hinders the focus of said mk1 eyeball, wouldn't make sense.

[skkm]

I don't know if this is a major consideration. There are plenty of coast watch/SAR Challengers and Gulfstreams out and about.

[HZ123]

Are Airbus going to sell any more 380's as a result of this improvement ? However many it is it is still not enough !

[Volume]

When the A380 has been developed, winglets were already well understood. Adding winglets does not only improve aerodynamics, it also adds weight. Weight saving was a big issue on the A380, as it is already the heaviest aircraft on the market, and compatibility with existing airports and the load ratings of their surfaces was important. By now Airbus has learned that not too many operators make use of the full range and hence the MTOW of the A380, there seems to be room for some structural weight increase now (also to shift some weight from fuel to additional seats). Additionally all structural testing (lasting some years beyond entry into service) has probably shown some margin for increased weight as well.
And of course there is always a marketing issue with winglets... If the operators do want them, the manufacturers offer them. Even if it is not the technically best solution.
It will of course not solve the issue that A380 passengers do experience on airports which are simply not capable of handling that number of passengers properly... The nicest and most comfortable A380 flight becomes a nightmare if you cue up an hour for immigration at your destination, and wait another 30 minutes for your luggage after that.

[donpizmeov]

Volume, you are close. Winglets during the 380 design phase would have meant reduced wingspan for the design to stay in the 80m box. The new design allows them to be fitted on the present wing and still remain in the box.

[atakacs]

So in essence it took AB about 20 years to come up with this clever solution to this geometry problem ? I'm impressed....

[ACMS]

Pig.


Lipstick.

Yuk.