Grounded due to historical issue, case taking months at CAA

[CrazyScientist]

Hello

I am currently working towards my CPL/IR, and have completed my ATPL examinations and about half of my hour building.

Unfortunately, when I came to do the Class 1 medical in March of this year, I was grounded.

Two to three years ago (while in possession of a class 2 certificate and a PPL, but not actively flying) I went through a bit of a rough patch due to various personal difficulties and underwent a course of cognitive behavioural therapy. As there was no actual specific diagnosis (the therapy was aimed more at addressing some unhelpful OCD - oriented symptoms that didn't actually indicate a full blown clinical diagnosis) and I was at no point medicated I didn't report anything to my AME or the CAA. Flying was also the last thing on my mind at the time, and I didn't resume flying until late last year in fact.

It wasn't until I was filling out the pre-assessment form for the Class 1 (MED 160 I think?) and it asked for very specific details on anything on my medical history (including psychological background) that I started to think that not notifying the CAA of my previous therapy at the time may have been incorrect. I contacted the AME that issued my Class 2 and he confirmed this, so I disclosed full details on the form and submitted the reports when I went to the AeMC the next day for my Class 1.

Although the AME who examined me stated there would be no change in my certification (although my Class 1 application was deferred to the CAA), a week after the appointment I got an email stating my Class 2 had been suspended too (effectively grounding me). A letter from the CAA shortly after confirmed this, and asking me for my written comments on a possible non-declaration issue and for my complete medical records.

I complied with this, writing a grovelling letter of apology/explanation and submitting my complete medical records at the beginning of April. I've been waiting since, and unfortunately progress has been painfully slow. I've attempted to contact my (Class 1) AME on several occasions but cannot get through as the admin staff insist that until there is a final decision at the CAA they cannot provide me with any further information.

I've pestered the CAA multiple times a week by phone since then and it seems my case is progressing, but extremely slowly. My records weren't reviewed by the consultant psychiatrist until about a week ago for example. There seems to be a lot of back and forth while memos are sent between staff members and typed up and sent back to be signed off etc. I appreciate the CAA aeromedical department have to work a large caseload with what they have (no different to licensing...), but this has completely scuppered my flight training plans and if it continues much longer could completely derail my commercial career due to training deadlines and commitments elsewhere.

Do I have any grounds here for a complaint? I appreciate that at the end of the day I wouldn't be in this mess if I had declared my medical history when I was supposed to, but it was a genuine mistake. I have been grounded for over 3 months now and the case has been with the CAA for as long as that.

I have asked that a priority be that my Class 2 is reinstated while I wait for my Class 1 application to be considered separately if it means I can get back to my hour building and starting my IR (which doesn't require a Class 1) more quickly, but I am not sure it will make any difference.

Would appreciate any advice!

Thanks

[parkfell]

For those who are thinking about professional flying remember that defined time limits apply from the time you successfully pass EASA written exams.
The clock starts to tick.....
The moral of the story is to obtain the initial CLASS ONE medical prior to the groundschool phase.

[noflynomore]

It does seem a little harsh that CBT prior to Class one issue causes big problems but I know that CBT after issue is much less serious. How come?

They (well, one CAA doctor) tried to prevent my initial Class 1 due to childhood asthma even though I had servred as a pilot in the Navy!

Sadly there sometimes seems little rhyme or reason to such decisions, it is up to the whim of the particular quack who had control of your file and like mine if he is ex RAF and has an irremovable bug up his arse about asthma and flying than flying you will find hard to achieve.

Keep at them politely but firmly to find out if there really is a medical impasse or just a paper jam. If the former think about getting an aviation specialist second opinion. (PM me if you need a contact)

Good luck.

btw, three months isn't really a long time for the CAA medical people...

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I'm surprised by this. I received CBT whilst my Class 1 medical was valid; in fact it was my AME who arranged it. I continued working and the CBT did its job.

[Sleeve Wing]

Hi Navy……

(not as good as it used to be, is it ?!)

>> btw, three months isn't really a long time for the CAA medical people… <<

My bloke ex-RAF too. Took SIX months after a routine medical (over 65 then) to show there was nothing wrong with me after he made a fuss about a wrinkle on a voluntary 15 min. Bruce Protocol. How do we speed ‘em up ? Pigs might...etc etc.

Do these guys actually know what goes on in an aeroplane ? I’m far more relaxed in an aircraft than on the M25.

[wiggy]

btw, three months isn't really a long time for the CAA medical people...

I think TBF as I understand it a lot of the CAA medical stuff is now farmed out to external consultants so timescales can be very variable.

I had dealings with them recently and from my dossier hitting the CAAs desk to me getting an OK back by snail mail took just over a week....sounds like I was lucky.

[CrazyScientist]

Thanks for the input guys.

I coincidentally did finally receive a response this morning. Unfortunately it was way worse news than I was expecting.

They state that due to a single episode of what they refer to as delusional and paranoid thought over four years ago, I am assessed as unfit for all classes of medical certification. The letter is very short, with nothing in there about what I need to do next to regain certification (other than the standard line about appeals).

The episode was very brief and coincided with an extremely difficult period in my life, during which I was not flying. The symptoms never resurfaced and the ensuing CBT treatment was aimed only at the OCD-type symptoms that endured thereafter. There was never any official diagnosis of paranoid or deluded thought by any of the specialists I saw after the episode either.

I am just waiting to hear back from my AME regarding the next steps, unfortunately they also have proven quite difficult to get in touch with. The AME who issued my class 2 was much better.

Anyone have any experience with appeals and how long they take?

[Radgirl]

I am afraid the issues center on the two words - paranoia and delusional. You need to determine where these diagnoses have come from. Unless the CAA's psychiatrist has 'made them up' they most likely have come from your original notes and therefore the psychiatrist you were under at the time. You might be advised to discuss this with your original psychiatrist to see if he is willing to review and amend his opinion at that time in the light of your subsequent progress.

[CrazyScientist]

Many thanks for your response, that confirms what I suspected.

The terms were used in reports from initial assessments I had prior to my course of treatment, but were definitely not stated diagnoses. They referred to the assessor's initial impression but all later reports confirmed I was simply experiencing an onset of obsessive compulsive tendencies. The CAA however seem to have focused on the passing reference to delusional thought in the earlier (preliminary) reports and ignored the fact that latter reports do not mention this.

Unfortunately getting in touch with those earlier assessors has proven to be impossible due to the passage of time, so I guess I would just need to base my appeal on the grounds that the later, more detailed and up to date reports do not raise the issue of delusional thought.

I have asked my AME for advice on the matter but so far no luck. Am I right in saying the AME should be the first port of call for advice in these matters?

[Radgirl]

Sorry to be a killjoy but 'terms used in reports' are diagnoses! I think you will have an uphill struggle to get someone to state they were wrong based on a current examination. You may not be suffering from them now, but the CAA I suspect isnt really focused on that

You state this was three years ago. That is a blink of an eye in medical terms. You can be put back in touch with the psychiatrist or unit you were under at that time. Your GP is your friend and indeed should have a set of reports. The hospital notes by law must be disclosed to you unless they would cause you harm which does not seem to be the case. The doctor(s) can be traced.

good luck

[CrazyScientist]

Thanks again Radgirl, that clarifies things.

Even if what I experienced could genuinely be described as deluded thought, given that it was a one-off transient response to some of the most extreme stress I had ever experienced, am I right in understanding it shouldn't be an obstacle to certification? The CAA guidance material on psychiatry states the following:

Class 1

(d) Schizophrenia, schizotypal or delusional disorder

Applicants with an established schizophrenia, schizotypal or delusional disorder should only be considered for a fit assessment if the licensing authority concludes that the original diagnosis was inappropriate or inaccurate or, in the case of a single episode of delirium, provided that the applicant has suffered no permanent impairment.

I can recount only one extreme example of obsessive compulsive behaviour which could possibly be described as delusional and it was the single instance referred to briefly by the aforementioned report. As far as I can tell from my amateur understanding of the definition it could be described as a delirium - so shouldn't it be possible to work around it given it happened once only? I can recall only one instance of it being that bad and can find only one example in my medical reports (I had to source from my GP and submit to the CAA my entire medical records, so I still have copies of everything).

The CAA say in their letter I have a "history of deluded thought", but I cannot understand if they consider the one instance of it to qualify as a "history" or if they seem to believe there are multiple occurrences. I guess the above GM is a starting point though so would appreciate any feedback on whether or not I've understood it correctly!

[noflynomore]

AME is the only way to go initially when dealing with the CAA.

[CrazyScientist]

That was my impression, but my AME got in touch by phone yesterday in response to my queries via email and was pretty adamant it wasn't his job to answer the above questions and that it wouldn't make a difference anyway since it's the CAA I need to convince.

I have tried asking questions directly to the CAA but repeatedly get told to ask my AME instead. There is also the issue of my AME asking questions and finding things out on my behalf - the CAA have told me several times if I want further details on the progression of my case or on how the medical officer came to the conclusions they did then my AME should be making these enquiries for me as "doctors can talk to doctors", but as a pilot I am not allowed direct contact with any of the medical officers. However my AME yesterday made it quite clear that he was not going to act as what he described as my advocate or representative at the CAA.

There seems to be a difference in opinion between my current AME and the staff I talk to on the phone at the CAA over an AME's role. Although to be honest the AME who issued my Class 2 was far more forthcoming with advice and finding things out for me.

I guess I could ask my GP on a few things that only require a medical opinion, but it's far from ideal as it would still be better to have access to someone with knowledge on the certification process and workings of the CAA.

I get the feeling that the guidance material on the CAA website is hardly comprehensive, is there somewhere I can officially go to for advice on making appeals?

[Radgirl]

Oh dear oh dear

If the CAA have put their instructions in writing send them to the AME. Otherwise inform him. If he still refuses you will need to inform the CAA the AME is refusing to carry out his duties. you could cc the CMO at the CAA. you can even escalate to the GMC but this is just daft. The CAA need to be told the AME is not playing ball and send him clear instructions to comply.

noflynomore is correct - this has to be resolved via the AME and CAA. You cant go second guessing the CAA

[CrazyScientist]

Thanks, I did bring up the issue with the CAA a number of times on the phone since the case began when calling to ask about progress etc, but no specific action was suggested/taken other than to simply oblige my request for information while making it clear it should really be my AME doing this.

I think I will take some time to try and determine how I want to take this forward, gather my thoughts and find out exactly what questions I need the answers to then put them all in an email to my AME rather than phoning. The added delays obviously are excruciating given the potential (career ending) ramifications of all this but I guess it's better to have it all in writing for the avoidance of doubt given there is a suggestion the AME is failing to act on his duties.

My main concern obviously is now timing given that not only do I have to worry about missing originally intended training dates and losing currency, but also the three year ATPL exam expiry date (never believed this would be an issue, given I was aiming to finish one year before). Looking through the CAA's appeals policy document, it appears I am now at the "AMS Secondary Review of Fitness" stage. It states that the case will be looked at by a different CAA medical assessor and also by an independent specialist adviser. My understanding is the assessment process undertaken by the second CAA assessor will be similar to that of the first (i.e, looking at it afresh) - I'm guessing therefore there's a danger the whole thing could drag on just as long? It took about 14 weeks for this decision to come through from the date I submitted the CAA's requested information.

[noflynomore]

Change your AME. Go see the fella I PM'd you about. If he can't help no one can.

[RatherBeFlying]

Until you find an AME willing to advocate for you with the CAA, you won't get anywhere.

Since Andreas Lubitz deliberately crashed an Airbus, CAAs are much more cautious with any whiff of a psychiatric diagnosis.

Ultimately you may have to find another CAA. The US AOPA has an excellent medical group that advocates effectively with the FAA, for one example. Other AOPAs may not be as well resourced, but could offer an educated guess on your chances and refer you to an appropriate AME.

You would have to run your medical file by an AME in that country to see if there's any hope, preferably before jumping through the immigration hoops.

There is the possibility that you would not get a Class 1 medical until you have been flying for a while.

[Radgirl]

So RbF your advice to a UK resident is

1 get a working visa and residency in the US as a pilot but without a medical

2 fly as a pilot without a medical

3 hope you can then get a medical

Thank you for your advice

[RatherBeFlying]

Oh no RG,

If CS finds a UK medical is impossible, he might be able to find another country (not necessarily the US) where the authorities there would consider issuing him a medical.

Possibly he might not be granted a class 1 medical right away, but may be able to obtain a class 2, 3 or 4 medical that would allow him to fly in a not for hire capacity.

[B2N2]

Listen.
Hate to rain on anybodies parade here but at some point you need to stop.
This industry is not for everybody for a plethora of reasons.
Hundreds, yes hundreds loose their medical each year. Blood pressure, eye sight, accidents you name it and it happens.
There is such a thing as liability on the side of the CAA.
They approve your medical and you have an 'event, 5-10-12 yeas from now they are liable, morally and ethically responsible.
Nobody is waiting for another Euro-wings. Now the chances of this happening are slim. But not zero. Not zero with a pilot that never had an 'episode' and not zero with somebody who has had an 'episode'. And you...have had an 'episode'.

Two to three years ago (while in possession of a class 2 certificate and a PPL, but not actively flying) I went through a bit of a rough patch due to various personal difficulties and underwent a course of cognitive behavioural therapy. As there was no actual specific diagnosis (the therapy was aimed more at addressing some unhelpful OCD - oriented symptoms that didn't actually indicate a full blown clinical diagnosis) and I was at no point medicated I didn't report anything to my AME or the CAA.

What I'm reading are excuses, excuses and excuses.
While you held a medical you didn't report it.
Admitting to it later doesn't change that.
Your chances may have been better had you reported it immediately.

Stop denying that anything occurred.
It was only this, it was only that.
The determination of the severity is no longer in your hands.

It eventually boils down to a simple yes or no.

Example;
You get stopped by the police for speeding and you fail a breathalyzer test. You blow over the legal limit.
So now you go to court arguing your dog died and you took your dying granny to the hospital and you were only 5 mph over the posted limit and .01 over max.

Did you or didn't you exceed the speed limit? That's a yes.
Did you or didn't you exceed the max limit? That's a yes.
Guilty, case closed.

This has nothing to do with you and who you are and if you've been treated fairly.
You are a name on a piece of paper and you have received treatment for an 'episode' which is disqualifying.
End of story and at some point you need to accept this.

[RatherBeFlying]

In the US it all depends on whether your episode falls under "psychosis" or "other personality disorder..."


(a) (2) A psychosis. As used in this section, “psychosis” refers to a mental disorder in which:

(i) The individual has manifested delusions, hallucinations, grossly bizarre or disorganized behavior, or other commonly accepted symptoms of this condition; or

(ii) The individual may reasonably be expected to manifest delusions, hallucinations, grossly bizarre or disorganized behavior, or other commonly accepted symptoms of this condition.
.
.
.
(c) No other personality disorder, neurosis, or other mental condition that the Federal Air Surgeon, based on the case history and appropriate, qualified medical judgment relating to the condition involved, finds—

(1) Makes the person unable to safely perform the duties or exercise the privileges of the airman certificate applied for or held; or

(2) May reasonably be expected, for the maximum duration of the airman medical certificate applied for or held, to make the person unable to perform those duties or exercise those privileges.


https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=b0859a44f58f555dbdc7660c19c131c6&rgn=div8&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.1.5.2.1.4&idno=14

[B2N2]

or other commonly accepted symptoms of this condition

You could always try and find a country that will not request your records from the CAA or does not have a "agreement to share".

You can also pay $150 million and become an astronaut and fly to the moon.
https://www.seeker.com/fly-me-to-the-moon-for-150-million-1768679378.html

But at some point you have to reenter the realm of reality and what is possible.
Most of the ground school instructors that I have had and half the simulator instructors were pilots that lost their medicals.
https://www.indeed.co.uk/Simulator-Instructor-jobs-in-England
There are plenty of careers in aviation that do not require a medical.
I'm sorry to sound so harsh but somebody needs to tell you.
Enablers are not going to help you.

[CrazyScientist]

Many thanks everyone for the continued input.

I have done a little searching but not yet made any change with my AME. Although I still feel there are some shortcomings it is very difficult financially to start looking for other doctors to consult on my case, so changing AME is kind of a last resort really. Shopping around for a new state for license/medical issue is likely to be out of reach with my budget.

I have now submitted my appeal so will see how things develop and play it by ear.

B2N2, I appreciate your points. However, the CAA shouldn't be seeing things as so black and white.

If anything, the Germanwings accident demonstrates the need for CAAs to be more open in dealing with airmen with mental health issues in order to foster safer operating environments - as opposed to ostensibly knee jerk reactions to any hint of a problem.

By all accounts, Lubitz' anxieties were at least partly focused on him being assessed as unfit to fly and he hid his diagnoses from the German authority. What do you think will happen as aviation authorities come down ever harder on those with mental health issues? Pilots are humans and a higher proportion of them than most would be aware of or care to admit will suffer mental health issues at some point.

I hold myself to the highest standards in everything I do with regards to my flying and was horrified upon realising my mistake in not declaring my therapy when my previous AME pointed it out just prior to going for my Class 1 exam. I would never deliberately and knowingly withhold pertinent information from the authorities and even now I don't regret making the decision to disclose all details regarding my previous treatment upon realising I was obliged to - but the fact is that doing so has harmed my situation hugely.

I know I am fine and hope I can eventually convince the CAA's doctors of this too, but the fact is jumping through the required hoops has been nothing but a huge setback.

[B2N2]

I think some folk on this forum confuse the aviation elite with simple fairness and prudence.


I am not sure certain 'fat, dumb and happy' people can understand that.

Just saying.

You don't know anything about me.
You don't know what it took me to get where I am.
The sacrifices and the 20 years of struggle.
I know what it takes to get where I am now.
I also know of the people that have fallen by the wayside for many different reasons.
Some have lost their medical, some have died in the process.
I don't take this lightly.

[AngioJet]

Given that the TS probably doesn't want to (and probably shouldn't) discuss every detail of whatever happened previously leading to this predicament, discussion as to whether the appeal has merit or not is pretty much wasted.

B2N2 you do have a point but as above, you have no more information than the rest of us so perhaps save your rather aggressive line of argumentation for another time. It's easy being a keyboard warrior...

[Flyin'Dutch']

There is not much that any/another AME can do for an applicant who has been denied a medical by the CAA.

The applicant needs to go through the appeals process which is detailed on the CAA website.

Support from a clinician in the area of the problem - in this case that would be a psychiatrist, is important as they can review the documentation made at the time and see what relevance that has/had to the problem identified.

[CrazyScientist]

My most up to date report is from the time of the therapy a number of years ago, unfortunately. The CAA stated that, if necessary, they will arrange for me to have a psych evaluation as part of this process. If that were the case, I would certainly feel much better about my chances.

The current decision just feels like they've unnecessarily rejected my application out of hand.

I've noticed that since I last phoned the CAA (about a week or so ago), things have changed with the phone lines such that there is now no way for pilots to speak to anyone in the aeromedical department directly unless it's specifically to discuss a change of SOLI or to book an appointment with a consultant (those are the only two options that will connect you to someone, the other will just give you an automated message about asking your AME or checking the website, then hang up).

[B2N2]

B2N2 you do have a point but as above, you have no more information than the rest of us so perhaps save your rather aggressive line of argumentation for another time. It's easy being a keyboard warrior...


Point taken.
However...the information provided was done voluntarily on a public forum, soliciting advice and opinions.

This is the second (3rd?) thread in a relatively short time that deals with disqualifying issues.
Providing unrealistic advise is..well...equally less then helpful.
This industry, like any other, is not for everybody.
Too tall, too short, too fast, too slow, too smart....anything can disqualify you from being an actor, a train conductor, or....a pilot.
This early in your training you've just tasted aviation, you haven't experienced it yet.
Dreams shattered? Yes.
Heart broken? Yes.
But the flip side of the coin being that you do not know what you will miss.
Pick up the pieces and continue with your life.
Many other jobs in aviation.

[Flyin'Dutch']

If the CAA wants further information to make a decision they are usually pretty clear and prescriptive what type of report by what type of specialist they want in order to evaluate someone's fitness to hold a medical certificate.

From what you have written in your last post it would appear they have told you what they need so the next step would be for you to get that done.

[CrazyScientist]

Apologies Flyin'Dutch', I meant the CAA simply clarified that if they decide they want further information as part of the appeals process they will then make the arrangements for a further evaluation themselves.

I submitted my appeal last week, will update this thread when I hear more.

[AndromedaZ1]

Since Andreas Lubitz deliberately crashed an Airbus, CAAs are much more cautious with any whiff of a psychiatric diagnosis.



Psychiatry is the reason Andreas Lubitz deliberately crashed an Airbus.

[pulse1]

Crazy Scientist,

I was discussing your case with my daughter this evening. She helps a lot of people who suffer from the after effects of stress, including PTSD. She immediately recommended that you should seek help from a well accredited trauma specialist who might have enough clout to convince your AME and the CAA that you are no more a risk than anyone else but also take some of the responsibility for the decision to let you fly.

I hope that it all works out well for you.

[CrazyScientist]

Many thanks for your post pulse1. At the moment my appeal is still with the CAA and so I can't really do anything further until that is concluded and I know where I stand. Hopefully it all goes through OK and there is no need for any further action on my part - will post back when I find out more!

[slowjet]

Cripes ! Just to lighten up ; finished tidying up the kitchen, everything spotless, everything lined up in size order, poured my glass of fizz & reckon I have won the Euromillions . Even deciding how I am going to spend it. BUT ! I am not telling my AME or the CAA any of this !

[Homsap]

Crazyscientist...... I wouldn't say CBT or NLP is actually a problem, and as someone stated that he knew of someone who had CBT and continued flying, after all CBT could be for something like a fear of needles, or spiders.

The problem we have now is the licencing authorities are very nervous following Lubitz and Germanwings. The trouble with psychology, psychiatry, psychotherapy is a bit of a muddy pool.

If I were you I you write down an account of the events the CAA have issues with. Then go to the following:

Psychiatric Diagnoses are categorized by the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 4th. Edition. Better known as the DSM-IV, the manual is published by the American Psychiatric Association and covers all mental health disorders for both children and adults.

There was a research paper a few years ago, that stated that that in terms of percetages of psychopaths by percentage in ocupations CEOs and Judges scored the highest, and I have met a few in aviation.

Get back to psychological assesments, I knew a police firearms officer, he was in a family law dispute over his daughter, the mother was preventing contact. The court ordered two psychiatrists reports which did not come up with much more that the father was quite upset by not seeing his young daughter. The whole thing was quite ridiculous when the police deemed him suitable to work as an armed officer. It is interesting as I knew this particular high court judge, and he was a complete psycholpath, he previously ruled that a child be removed from her parents as they were jehovah witness'.

[CrazyScientist]

Sorry for not acknowledging your post earlier Homsap, your advice is much appreciated however.

I will certainly take on board what you said, although for the time being I just have to sit tight and see what the CAA say. The whole process has been extraordinarily slow unfortunately, but there is little I can do really to make a difference at this stage.

I can certainly appreciate why Authorities are so nervous regarding such issues following Germanwings, although I can't help but feel that by coming down so hard on those with mental health issues in their past the Authorities are doing more harm than good (even from the perspective of protecting the flying public). The absurd amount of time it takes for anything to be processed makes it worse.

[CrazyScientist]

Just to update this thread, I have now received a response (after substantial delays) to my appeal.

Unfortunately, the CAA have more or less upheld the original decision. They have stated (following an appointment with one of their consultants) that although it does seem the original assessment of my history was inaccurate (not a psychosis, but rather severe OCD symptoms instead), and that my present condition is satisfactory, the risk of relapse is a concern. They've technically changed their position in that instead of being permanently barred from certification, I can now be reassessed (subject to a further psychiatric review) after another ~2 years from now (5 years since original recovery). Practically though it's of little relevance as by then there's no way I could continue towards training to be a commercial pilot (expired ATPL exams, advancing age and need to commit to a career etc).

They cite the universal requirement of there being significantly less risk than 1% per annum of relapse as reason for my being classed as unfit. However, the letter doesn't really explain exactly how the decision was made that I don't fall under this limit. And for various reasons, there are specific factors that I believe indicate a lower risk of relapse but which I don't feel were taken into consideration (partly because they weren't mentioned).

The risk threshold also specifically refers to incapacitation, but I completely disagree with regards to the impact even the most severe symptoms I experienced years ago could have on airmanship and my ability to fly safely. I've never experienced anything that I believe could have any relevance to flying an airplane.

I will be progressing with the final appeal stage (to the CAA Chief Medical Officer) and appealing on these bases. However, I appreciate my own arguments are unlikely to sway the panel, assuming they are correct. I'm therefore looking to see if I can see another specialist who may be able to review my case and provide their own assessment as supporting evidence. Does anyone have any suggestions as to possible candidates for this? A poster on this thread did recommend someone to me already via PM and I'm in the process of getting in touch with them, it's just a little slow with the holiday season. I'd really appreciate if anyone else has further recommendations based on their experiences.

I'm also wondering if anyone also has experience specifically with this final appeal stage. I understand there is the possibility of attending a hearing to make my own representations in person, and also that in certain cases it may be possible to forgo the option of having a hearing and instead request a "very quick" decision be made due to impending training deadlines/licence expiry etc (according to the CAA's official guidance document). However, it is really difficult to find any further information; for example, regarding what the hearing actually entails and how advisable it is to actually have one.

[space-shuttle-driver]

CS,
Don't give up, but get yourself professional assistance in form of a medical lawyer experienced in dealing with the CAA. Meanwhile, get started on another career path, and be assured that being an airline pilot is not the most glorious way of having a life. There are other ways! If you succeed in regaining your medical, re-doing the ATP exams will be the least of your efforts.
On a side-note, why did you chose to have ''crazy'' in your PPrune name?

[CrazyScientist]

Thanks SSD.

The username is a reference to my academic background - and "MadScientist" was already taken. ;)

[RatherBeFlying]

They cite the universal requirement of there being significantly less risk than 1% per annum of relapse as reason for my being classed as unfit. However, the letter doesn't really explain exactly how the decision was made that I don't fall under this limit.
Ask them (preferably through a consultant) for the worksheet where the probability analysis was done:E

I would be astonished if one turns up.

[CrazyScientist]

I am wary, being medically unqualified, of challenging a professional's judgement in that regard (probability analysis) - but I have to say from the moment I read the letter I had doubts about how that specific conclusion was reached. The whole thing feels 'fudged'. It could just be down to the possibility that not all of the decision making process is disclosed to the applicant (me), but my experiences with the CAA have left me cynical enough to not be so naive as to expect a thoroughly fair and professional process every time.

I sincerely doubt the same level of ambiguity will be acceptable in my appeal.

One thing that did catch my attention is that in their letter, the assessor states they are basing their decision to make me unfit partly on my failure to disclose my issues earlier (back when I wasn't flying). This hardly seems fair. I sincerely doubt the risk of relapse of my previous symptoms and therefore the risk of incapacitation (which is what fit/unfit decisions are based on) has anything to do with how quickly I disclosed my symptoms. I understand failing to disclose the issues in a timely manner was a mistake (albeit an unintentional and certainly not malicious one) and in contravention of the regulations associated with my medical certificate, but surely tying that in to the question of medical fitness is absurd?

The CAA's process just fills me with confidence. :rolleyes:

[Fire and brimstone]

CAA process is an approximation of the 12th century ducking stool.

1) Ground them for any reason you want to make up.

2) Do they die during the grounding?

3) Let then back after an unnecessarily long period (even if pilot is dead, this is still deemed safe, as a dead pilot can't report for work).

It's not ethical / scientific / based on safety.

However, it is the system they currently use.

Grounding pilots is 100% safe, statistically, and that is the defence of this system.

Total logic.