Foggy Flight

[bluesideoops]

and here folks, is how to get yourself killed!

https://video.buffer.com/v/5936153c7a4e445f53559b9c?utm_content=buffer30119&utm_medium=social&utm_source=linkedin.com&utm_campaign=buffer

[paco]

It sure is! But it looks like he has synthetic vision.

[Evil Twin]

At least he kept his sunnies on.

[Vertical Freedom]

WoW...impressive; not! :ooh:

Be it the Crocs adds extra safety; not! :rolleyes:

Kilos of Gold bars make this PIC bullet proof; not! (but I'm sure he thinks it does) :{

Synthetic vis but not at LSA.....dumber than Dog shiit :mad:

Mountain flying is eXtreme to say the least, but this is just plain stoopid :yuk:

Stay Safe & Stay Happy :)

[Torquetalk]

What's the problem? He had visual reference with the floor of the helicopter all of the time.

[tartare]

What type of machine is that?

EDIT: Ah - I see Bell 407GX

[bluesideoops]

@Torquetalk ha ha ha

[love flying]

I couldn't quite see why you would wear gloves

[Sir Niall Dementia]

They were nomex gloves. His fingerprints should be recognisable to aid identification. DNA is often really badly damaged in post impact fires..........

SND

[Max Contingency]

Words fail me. I wonder if he thinks that when the fancy screen says 'game over' you can put another 25c in and try again

[212man]

Interesting that it was originally on another forum and that the youtube video has been removed! foggy helicopter flight :: Just Helicopters (http://www.justhelicopters.com/Multi-Media/Videos/VideoPlayer/TabId/574/VideoId/624/foggy-Helicopter-Flight.aspx?utm_content=buffer76689&utm_medium=social&utm_source=linkedin.com&utm_campaign=buffer#Pilot)

[SAR driver]

They were nomex gloves. His fingerprints should be recognisable to aid identification. DNA is often really badly damaged in post impact fires..........

SND

Nice reply! 😄

[Impress to inflate]

Bell End.....:ugh:

[jimcarler]

What a clown - hopefully there was no one else up there with him

[Sir Niall Dementia]

Nice reply! 😄

I aim to please:E

[McDoo]

And here he is, next year's winner of the prestigious Darwin Award..

[412pilot]

Famous last words:
Let's press on, the weather is clearing :)

[rotorfan]

Yikes! Took me all of 4 seconds to reach TAS (tightened arse syndrome). No slowing due the reduced vis. Must have had a tee time to make. Or tea time. Agree with McDoo, candidate for Darwin Award.

[HeliHenri]

.
Keep in mind he's a pro with maybe 5 pax at the back ...:ugh:
.

[md 600 driver]

the video just stopped is that when he crashed!!!!!

[RVDT]

Piece of cake - just keep the red stuff out of the pictures!!

[cyclic flare]

At 100 hours I thought I knew it all ... at 500 hours I knew I knew it all... at 5000 hours that frigthens the life out of me

[the coyote]

He'd be buggered if that little screen went black.....

[VegasRobbiedvr]

That's not the entire video...in the complete video, he breaks out in the clear headed toward a coastal region...IT IS A VERY STUPID THING TO DO, I do not think he was in a mountainous region from the start, maybe rolling terrain...I do think this guy has flown this route many times giving him too much confidence...IT IS STILL A VERY STUPID THING TO ATTEMPT EVEN WITH THE AVIONICS HE SO TRUSTS!!!

[[email protected]]

And as the Irish SAR thread highlighted - it only takes one obstacle not in your database to kill you.

Wires, masts, a mobile crane at a building site, someone putting up a wind turbine etc etc etc

Darwinian selection in action - eventually dumb luck runs out.

[cpt mayhem]

wow he looks like he is wearing crocs as well, snappy dresser.

[Nigerian Expat Outlaw]

Waste of a nice headset too. Unless it survives the inevitable accident........

NEO

[EESDL]

Why did he keep looking outside? - his scan should have reverted?
I noticed his screen went red for a moment - and his pants brown?
I thank him for putting it video - lowered some of my personal dumb-ass stuff down the ladder a couple of rungs.

[Heliringer]

Why did he keep looking outside? - his scan should have reverted?
I noticed his screen went red for a moment - and his pants brown?
I thank him for putting it video - lowered some of my personal dumb-ass stuff down the ladder a couple of rungs.

I look out as part of my scan.
Crazy situation to put himself in but he kept it straight and level, broke through and went home.
Personally I would have waited at the departure point.

[SASless]

As a dedicated Scunrudder.....having worked in locales that meant you did or you went broke.....I learned how to do it safely.....well as safely possible.....this video shows me two things......one being having all the Gucci kit is nice and if you rely on it as a primary method of flying fast with no forward vis....you better have no Suicide Clause in your Life Insurance Policy.

[Hughes500]

Well best summed by my daughter who is studying for her CPL " I can't watch that as I don't want to see a crash "

[EESDL]

Hell ringer - correct - a visual scan is outside with a regular inside on the T&Ps etc.
in fog it should be the other way round - with the odd check outside ......
I guess if he had ap in then no worries - keep on trekking til you either hit something or breakout.
Not sure which rules he was following as I don't think any exist for what he did - but back to the issue of why post the video?
Please don't tell me he was 'caught out' by the weather - he could see it coming from a good distance away

[SASless]

Caught out?

Last time I checked....one can land a Jet Ranger most anywhere....even if there is no Pub/Tavern/Cafe/Motel Lounge Bar close by.

[Flying Bull]

Well,

Seems quite common foggy flights....

https://youtu.be/LkNCvSCKoyo

LkNCvSCKoyo

[[email protected]]

Now was he doing a powerline inspection flight or was he just following the line feature most likely to kill him and keeping it in sight?

[Flying Bull]

Now was he doing a powerline inspection flight or was he just following the line feature most likely to kill him and keeping it in sight?

No freaking idea - but I know, you can get caught out...

If you know, its the only powerline around, it isn't such a bad idea to keep it insight.
Turning away and approaching it later between poles would be worse....

Reminds me of a flight with NVG, hilly wooded area, pushed down by a massive rainshower.
No spot to put the bird down and Radar wasn't any help either, telling me, that I have to expect the same wether in every direction for at least 15 miles :-(
When we spotted a powerline, we stuck to it like clingfilm, even using the landing light, to illuminate the cabels between towers....while looking at the emptying fuelgage, hovering along the line...
With a 1000 NVG HRS more experience now I'm well prepared to avoid such an occurence - but at the time the task seemed legit....

[[email protected]]

Yes, spotting wires and poles in the dark with the low contrast can be very difficult and the rain just makes it worse!

But they say what doesn't kill you makes you stronger:ok:

[helonorth]

Now was he doing a powerline inspection flight or was he just following the line feature most likely to kill him and keeping it in sight?

The power lines being followed are not the ones that will kill you. It's the lines crossing up ahead, that you are blissfully unaware of.

[ShyTorque]

The power lines being followed are not the ones that will kill you. It's the lines crossing up ahead, that you are blissfully unaware of.

Correct. For a number of years I had recurring nightmares after being in a helicopter flying just above wires in very poor weather, only to realise we were flying under higher HT cables above us.

[John Eacott]

On the tales of wires, in a previous life flying a Twin Squirrel for a Victorian TV company the weather was getting worse and vis along with it, so the decision to go IFR for the destination required a paddock landing to get charts, etc, sorted. On touchdown, hopped out and at the end of the next paddock was an HT powerline some 150-200ft high. Never even saw it when circling for landing.

Its the ones you don't see, etc etc.

[bluesideoops]

@flyingbull

"Well,

Seems quite common foggy flights...."

and yes, seems quite common as one of the main causes of fatal helicopter crashes.

Everybody should follow the HAI mantra 'land and live'

It's incredible in our industry how many, to paraphrase Red Forman (70's show), super dumb-asses there are willing to risk their own lives and also the lives of those folks paying us to transport them SAFELY.

Every pilot should be willing to lose their jobs to stand their ground when it comes to refusing pressure to do something dangerous. I've done it and will continue to do so, I'll work in McDonalds before some idiot in management or some imbecile customer forces me to an early appointment with the grim reaper!

And also, I agree with previous comments about past experience, I too have been a member of the super dumbass club and its our responsibility to educate and protect the youngsters coming up through the industry.

[[email protected]]

The power lines being followed are not the ones that will kill you. It's the lines crossing up ahead, that you are blissfully unaware of.agreed but you miss my point - in poor weather over forested or featureless terrain where you know there is a set of wires, once found then keeping them visual is a far better option than going 'off-piste' and then encountering them again where they might not be so obvious.

As JE says, it's the ones you can't see that will get you.

Fortunately in UK, most wires are well marked on maps - if you are using the correct scale for your type of flight - but I know of crews in NI who arrived in fields to collect troops in a punchy quickstop to running landing style who looked up at the end to find themselves under a set of domestic wires.

[Flying Bull]

@bluesideoops

"Everybody should follow the HAI mantra 'land and live' "

if you can - not always possible so.
Over sea or over forest / hill sides :-(

What worked out (especially at night) is a decision height the crew agrees on before departure.
Ones under that heigt - there is no dicussion left - its a turn back to base or landing - no further "there is a less dense area, lets try there"

"Every pilot should be willing to lose their jobs to stand their ground when it comes to refusing pressure to do something dangerous."

Not every pilot is in the transporting buiseness....
If lifes are at risk - and you and your helicopter is the only hope left - your willing to go further, fly lower, take more risks....
But you always have to consider, if you´re succesful, you´re the hero, if you crash, you´re the dumbass.....
It´s just not that easy to say no, if you know, that your no is a deathpenalty for someone.......

[John R81]

@bluesideoops


It´s just not that easy to say no, if you know, that your no is a deathpenalty for someone.......


Not in that business, but I can see how that may influence some.

Perhaps it assists the decision paradigm to remember that your failure to say "no" could be the death penalty for all on board.

[SASless]

Losing several lives out weighs that one life.....sorry!

You do no one any good if you kill yourself enroute or on the way home with the casualty!:=

HEMS is defined as a Safe, Dependable, Efficient Aeromedical Transportation Service. Operative words Safe and Dependable.

[DOUBLE BOGEY]

Words fail me......Oh no they don,t ....MORON. That's what I was searching for. MORON in a nicely configured helicopter.

[Flying Bull]

Losing several lives out weighs that one life.....sorry!

You do no one any good if you kill yourself enroute or on the way home with the casualty!:=

HEMS is defined as a Safe, Dependable, Efficient Aeromedical Transportation Service. Operative words Safe and Dependable.

You're absolutly right!
But weather forecast is one thing, the actual weather another...
Have lifted off with a "flyable" METAR only to turn around, cause It wasn't...
And completed missions with Metar crab- but good enough visibilty in my "back garden" where I know every wire around...
I added [URL="https://www.windy.com/[/URL]
to my briefingequipment, so I can use webcams on route and on destination, to geht a better idea how the weather and visibility is (especially at night)
Still, it's a Crew decision with our operation- every member can say, it's gone far enough....
To get things straight, I'm not flying HEMS - just searching missing persons (elderly, kids, which need medication or freeze to death, if not found in time, attempted suizide who either decide not to die anymore but are already immobilised and unaware of their actual position or attempted suizide, where we might be there before they commit and stuff like that.
It's a crazy world out there....

[Gordy]

It´s just not that easy to say no, if you know, that your no is a death penalty for someone.....

As others have said.... YES it is.......

As SASless has not yet said on this thread:

Ass----Tin----Ticket

This is my first mantra, we can mitigate risk to save to one of 3 levels.... I can save my ticket, or I can risk a little more and even save the aircraft and then mitigate more to even save my life...

Ultimately one is judged by what people say at your funeral, or what is said about you on anonymous forums like PPrune or worse yet Justhelicopters. My second mantra is "what will they say about me"... And to make it clear again... Should I go in an aircraft accident-- I insist it is discussed on this forum without the condolences... Our biggest learning tool is learning from other peoples mistakes.... Mrs "Gordy" will not be offended, and has been primed to expect the worst, and SASless will be the prime leader/moderator. of the thread.

[Flying Bull]

As others have said.... YES it is.......

As SASless has not yet said on this thread:

Ass----Tin----Ticket

This is my first mantra, we can mitigate risk to save to one of 3 levels.... I can save my ticket, or I can risk a little more and even save the aircraft and then mitigate more to even save my life...

Ultimately one is judged by what people say at your funeral, or what is said about you on anonymous forums like PPrune or worse yet Justhelicopters. My second mantra is "what will they say about me"... And to make it clear again... Should I go in an aircraft accident-- I insist it is discussed on this forum without the condolences... Our biggest learning tool is learning from other peoples mistakes.... Mrs "Gordy" will not be offended, and has been primed to expect the worst, and SASless will be the prime leader/moderator. of the thread.

I see Gordy, you haven't seen that kind of operations.
Sure I don't wanna become statistics.
Still, I need to decide on a flight to flight basis.
Just canceling missions because a cloud is under the "should-mark" is to easy.
It's about risk management, knowing when you take them and how big they are and sharing this decision with the crew.
And - keeping options, in case weather gets worse....
I'm actually more scared flying on weekend afternoons, when low time privat pilots and sailplanes etc. crowd the sky ....
Busy playing with their ipads and GoPros and don't look out, as they should....
At night with crab weather it's about me, my skills and my decision making, wether I will come home or not ...

[[email protected]]

FB - Agree with all you say but can you change your use of the word crab when I think you mean crap please:)

There are some on these pages who think the two words are synonymous but I don't think you are one of them and I realise English is not your first language:ok:

[Hughes500]

Crab

A little sensitive ?:ok:

[Pozidrive]

....If lifes are at risk - and you and your helicopter is the only hope left - your willing to go further, fly lower, take more risks....


I'd be very surprised if that's current practice in UK SAR.


I've seen priorities explained as Self - Team - Others - Casualty.

[SASless]

FB - Agree with all you say but can you change your use of the word crab when I think you mean crap please

C-r-a-b.....you assume quite a bit there.....and as you know that can lead to a false hypothesis!:E



FB, I submit...."Below Minimums" is below minimums....period...dot!


It is when the weather is close to "Minimums" the rub comes....that is when it is a judgement call.

[[email protected]]

Hughes - hardly;) crabs have hard shells not thin skin:ok:

Just wanted to know what crab weather was:)

[Nigerian Expat Outlaw]

I'm sure I had soft shell crabs in a restaurant not too long ago.....

NEO

[Gordy]

I see Gordy, you haven't seen that kind of operations.
Sure I don't wanna become statistics.
Still, I need to decide on a flight to flight basis.


Firstly, I fly fire and have flown in stuff like that in the past. These days I take a more conservative approach.

[[email protected]]

I'm sure I had soft shell crabs in a restaurant not too long ago.....
clearly not RAF ones then:)

[SASless]

Gordy has a family to look out for these Days.....he must look to Tim and Tab's future!

[ShyTorque]

I prefer the term "crab" weather to "Shyte" weather.......

[Flying Bull]

Hi all,

Ok, right, should be crap instead of crab - and I'm not a native speaker ;-)

About minimums- in case of missions we just have a should - not a must....
So really no minimums- it's down to pilot/crew decision in case of a hot mission.
And thats ok, cause there are METARS which say I can - but drizzle makes NVG visibility so crap ;-) that it is just to risky to continue and there are days/nights with low cloud but fairly good visibility below, allowing flying undeneath the big powerlines (1.000 feet ones) (proper crossing at low speed close to pole for maximum clearence)
As I said, my aim is it, to live another day...
had my share of hairy moments and cause I don't know, how big my bag of fortune is, I'm willing to say no, if I see the holes in the cheese lining up...
I see also, that my personal limits (also depending on the crew) are quite low in comparison- but that could be influenced by the number of hours spend in ****ty weather.
And as I said, I'm not flying without a plan B anymore - that is knowing of landing places or the option (freezing level permitting) of an IFR pick up to return home.
(Yes - not within the rules with "IFR starts at .... feet) ;-)

[SASless]

Gordy's "Minimums" depend upon whether he is departing SLC or inbound....I bet!

[Flying Bull]

Well, there are days/nights, where you have to wait, until the weather picks up,again...

http://www.bilder-upload.eu/show.php?file=73ada5-1497465614.png

http://www.bilder-upload.eu/thumb/73ada5-1497465614.png (http://www.bilder-upload.eu/show.php?file=73ada5-1497465614.png)

That picture was taken in the morning after an night outside landing.
Luckily this time I only had to wait till the next morning.
Twice a bird couldn't retrieved for a about a week ��

(I guess I have to find a better place for online picture storage...)

[Sir Niall Dementia]

I prefer the term "crab" weather to "Shyte" weather.......

Shy; you and I are of an age where our type of weather is no clouds south of Icaland or North of the Azores, 20c and a gentle breeze. Wafted to our seats by virgins strewing rose petals and afterwards carried to the best seat in a pub with excellent ales.

All this flying in grot is for younger, keener men who haven't scared themselves enough yet.

SND

[Cornish Jack]

Back in the 60s, just before I started at the Thorney Island S&R flight, they were called out to 2 Hospital transfers, (both life threatening) and 1 sea-related. The visbility was given as never above 100m, rubbish cloud base, and the whole thing was navigated on Decca (remember it?). Decision making, in those circumstances, is almost at coin-tossing level.They were, in the event, successful but balance 'what could have been' against 'what was'.? How's your luck today?

[Non-PC Plod]

SND,


In the AAC, that used to be known as "Officers' flying weather"

Maybe still is?

[Ascend Charlie]

In the Oz air force training schools, when the weather turned out like that, we would hold a Flight Safety Meeting at a beachside pub which had a lunchtime strip show. Sadly, the local authorities were concerned that little kiddies could wander into such a meeting and see ladies with their naughty bits showing. An edict was edicted: No more daytime strip shows!

The pubs were pretty smart, so they changed things a little, and the ladies would walk out naked and proceed to put their clothes ON.

[Sir Niall Dementia]

Non-PC;

I believe it still is, round here its' known as Training Captains' Weather.

SND

[SASless]

Upon realizing my bag of luck was getting awfully light , and a growing awareness that folks higher up the Totem Pole did not have the same desire for me to make it to retirement, as I did.....and had insurance to replace the aircraft.....I found my ability to be quite happy to sit in the Crew room with a cup of Tea and a newspaper to be a more frequently enjoyed pleasure no matter the nagging of those who valued revenue over my safety.

If they had fancy tabs on their white shirts I would lower the paper enough to make eye-eye contact and remind them the keys were in the ignition if they cared to take my aircraft and go flying. None took me up on the offer.

[Vertical Freedom]

If anyone thinks this sort of weather is OK to fly in, even if it's to save a Life, seriously needs their head read :{ It's just plain Fvking stoopid :yuk:
After 1,347 success rescues in the Mountains I can tell You it ain't worth risking dying for! You won't get a heroes funeral...I've left 19 people to die on the ground because of the ****e weather. I make no apology for that, cause the machine was left safe to fly another day & so was I :8

Be Safe...they'll always be another day to fly :=
http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h338/rotors99/rotors99003/IMG_8908.jpg

[Gordy]

My point was to have a plan and a set of conditions worked out in advance. That way it keeps out the emotion of the event.

To answer Sasless's question:
Gordy's "Minimums" depend upon whether he is departing SLC or inbound....I bet!

Nah, it just means I stay another night in a hotel either way.

[megan]

I've left 19 people to die on the ground because of the ****e weather. I make no apology for thatI venture few people have been placed in that position VF, must take a personal toll. Respect.

[Vertical Freedom]

Hey megan....'twas tough in the beginning, but after getting emotionally entangled a few times with the relatives & friends of the deceased on-board, once almost fvking up a landing on short final because I was feeling for the survivors. I realized I had to remain completely detached, emotionally cold & uncaring so that I may be at my 100% in keeping the Living & machine Safe :ooh: After all that was my job, to keep Safe, saving a Life is secondary :(

[SASless]

Folks died before helicopters were invented....and will keep right on dying too.

You don't count the ones you cannot help....you remember the ones you could and did!

You can't get to every one!

[ShyTorque]

I also remember a few who were rescued and didn't really warrant a helicopter.

E.G. The Army Lieutenant who had a "broken back" after falling down a bank whilst on a jungle patrol. We launched in appalling weather at midnight, dodging thunderstorms and landing at an unrecce'd, unlit site; a jungle clearing. We nearly bust our backsides getting in there. The soldier with the "broken back" walked to the aircraft; we were obviously expecting a stretcher case...

Another: Launched in the small hours to another unlit site for a "Category A" casevac. Allegedly a very severe hand injury with severe loss of blood. It turned out to be a cut thumb; certainly not life threatening as we were led to believe. If the casualty had been a bit more careful (i.e. had a few less beers) when picking up his broken beer glass we wouldn't have had to put the aircraft and three crew at risk.

[Good Vibs]

Correct me if I'am wrong...
Many years ago the LA Fire Dept helicopter landed in the mountains around LA to pick up an injured hiker who could not walk. The helicopter crew were all Vietnam veterans. The injured hiker was Jane Fonda!

[SASless]

Yosemite it was I think.....single pilot....gave her a ride back to the heli-port.

We revoked his Air Medals!











We should have!

[megan]

A memorial wall has been put up you'll be pleased to know SAS to honour the lady.

[SASless]

I used to say I would not piddle in her mouth if her teeth were fire.....then I had a change of heart......I would to wet down the ashes!

[Nigerian Expat Outlaw]

Is Jeremy Corbyn Jane Fonda's love child ? ;)

NEO

[JumpJumpJump]

Hi

THis is my first post to the Rotorheads section. I simply do not know enough about helicopter ops to make any judgement on this and would like some feedback.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXEejNarYsk

This video has been doing the rounds on social media these last few days, and, as you can imagine, there has been quite a lot of chaff in various comments sections from non-pilots and worse, non-pilots claiming too be pilots... you know the sort, the type that have a dusty copy of MS Flight SImulator in a drawer somewhere, yet still begin posts with "I have 46,000 hours, thought in Vietnam, Korea and lived for 20 years on an aircraft carrier, I was also a NASA test pilot, boy scout and girl guide since the age of six..... etc"


I understand that this is a Bell 407 in the Philipines and I think that the avionics suite is a G300.

Simply put, was this a legal operation in your humblest of opinons.

Thanks

[helimutt]

interesting first post to RH. forgets video link ;):E

[Fareastdriver]

You will have to put in a link to the video.

[JumpJumpJump]

Done

and again, just in case! Have also added a little context in the edit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXEejNarYsk

[noflynomore]

His twin brother just scribbled a lovely girl - plus a couple of others - on her wedding day.

It'll be this fool's turn to destroy a whole family's future next.

[Bell_ringer]

old topic:

http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/595640-foggy-flight.html

[[email protected]]

For those who have been following the 'bride' thread - notice on the video in this link that the only time he has a change in attitude (roll in particular) is when he is half in the cloud towards the end and has conflicting information presented by his display and the ground.

It is that 'semi-IMC' that can be so disorientating as you go in and out of cloud at low level and result in the IIMC nightmare.

[MikeNYC]

alphanumeric, it's my understanding that a handful of 407s have been upgraded with the systems redundancies needed for IFR, in the US at least. In terms of "limited IFR" though, it either is...or it isn't, right?

[Bell_ringer]

Standard machine is vfr only.
There may be one or two special cases around.

[SASless]

If you had a clear beneath cloud base of a Thousand feet....and were IFR/IMC....with a backup AI with a back up power supply....is there a reason why you could not safely fly IMC?

Single Engine, single Generator....flat ground and known to be clear underneath....could you do it?

Granted with a Thousand Foot Ceiling and Three Miles vis...it would be VFR.

Less than Three Miles but say....One Mile vis.....could you do it without great risk?

[Fareastdriver]

Nobody should fly IMC in anything that small: No backup Attitude indicator, auxiliary power supply or spare engine.

In fact nobody should fly anything that small at all.

[Bell_ringer]

In fact nobody should fly anything that small at all.

Don't worry, if you cut down on the biscuits, in time you could fit in one again.

[noflynomore]

Just wanted to know what crab weather was:)

Nothing less than CAVOK of course. ;)

[Vertical Freedom]

crab weather is when the crabs are out frolicking :ugh: