HD throws in the towl

[puff m'call]

Well he did say if he couldn't change things for the better after 12 months he would go, and true to his word.

Well done H, plenty more to follow.

The wheels really are falling off.

[Visual Procedures]

Two heads of flight ops in less than 2 years.. Yep.. Everything is fine..

[gardenshed]

The GCAA will be seriously failing in their duty if they don't start asking some serious questions, about EK and it's management given the fact that two senior Flt Ops figures have chucked in the towel in quick succession.

[Craggenmore]

The HoDfather is going.

Say it ain't so !

[The Outlaw]

As I stated earlier, its the "rats leaving the sinking ship analogy".

No level of manager is going to associate his name with a failing/failed operation.

According to Mueller, he has always stated that the only way to save a failing company is to replace all senior managers at once. Lets see but my guess is that Tim and Gary are next.

Its all going to hinge on who takes the top job.

I wouldn't be buying any big ticket items just now.

[Talparc]

Next rat is leaving, more to follow!
The whole company is a deadly spiral dive. Wheels have flown off a long time ago.

[TangoUniform]

Sorry to say to those having to stay, but this is really a circus and a clown show. It is actually fun to watch, since there was never any loyality shown to us. Again, apologies to those just joining and those with reasons to stay. I wish you luck, sincerely. Less than 90 days to go.

[WakeTurb_69]

Just another thought.

He wasn't exactly a "yes man" and I'm sure had his fair share of disagreements with those "managers" above him. Is it possible he was asked to resign?

Not defending him in anyway. However, as an observer I imagine him and others like him to be like Lion cubs hunting Buffalo. They can roar as loud as they like but the Buffalo will barely glance in their direction.

The buffalo in this story are of course local "management".

I will say no more.

[fliion]

Enjoy your turkey this Xmas TICH.

[DCS99]

I saw HD in HQ recently. He looked older and rounder. Then I realised, so do I. Time to go.

[RK Blue sky]

No one is forced to stay at Emirates. With just about every airline hiring in every region of the globe there are no pilots "having to stay" at Emirates.
Why stay with what the company has shown us? There is no loyalty and no reason to stay.

[AlanPardew]

HD tried, couldn't push through his ideas so he's left. But he tried.

And Puff, it's 'towel'

Alan

[fatbus]

He and JA has some good ideas , in favour of the pilots, but we don't know how hard or how far they attempted to push them ie jump seat for one.
Personally I think both are jumping before it sinks , read - next hull loss and the accountability becomes an issue.
Truly now GF2, sad when you think it could have been a great place to be . Stand by for more senior expats to jump ship.

[littlejet]

Both of them has less than 7 years here. Hardly a senior.... Without results they are long overdue

[The Outlaw]

I'd agree with Fatty and AP,

The two gents in question did try to make positive changes but kept getting thwarted by ATC and STC, the problematic ego's are in this area.

But as RK states, there is no one making any of us stay. The company has graciously invited each and everyone of us to leave, why not take take advantage of such a kind offer?

Of course there are some who still find this place attractive just as some keep snakes and rats as pets, I guess to each their own.

May 1st is the start of the new company year so expect to see a lot of "egress" in the near future.

Any proof of a chance of recovery will be which office/role CM fills.

[puff m'call]

HD tried, couldn't push through his ideas so he's left. But he tried.

And Puff, it's 'towel'

Alan

Thank for stating the obvious Alan. keyboard key issue not spellin:ugh:

[KippaLippa]

Thank for stating the obvious Alan. keyboard key issue not spellin:ugh:

spellin...g

[TomU]

spellin...g

I am sure everyone is most grateful that you caught that.

We have a topic about severe admin problems in a major airline, and some think it important to pick spelling & typo errors....grief!

[KippaLippa]

yes, the subject is really serious.
that's why is nice to be a bit lighthearted.
don't take it personally, please.
I apologize if that made you feel bad, or you took offense for it.
No hard feelings.
KL

ps: it is damn serious, but, can we do anything about it?

[EchoKilla]

HD is headed back to the Éire along with his wife and his soon to start university going lass. Ironically or even coincidentally - perfect timing. His wife was a grade 10+ and he was a 12+ -- in these here desert areas that's wads of earnings. He did try - he honestly did - but with an heavy s a c k of € meant heart he is bidding goodbye. Who can blame him

And most importantly don't forget one thing - he was colleagues with the CM - bigger bolder news is coming. HD leaving isn't even close - best news so to speak is - if you done with your 5 years - PACK THOSE DELSEYS!

[aeropix]

No one is forced to stay at Emirates. With just about every airline hiring in every region of the globe there are no pilots "having to stay" at Emirates.
Why stay with what the company has shown us?

I hear this a lot, and as for me I am a product of the way seniority works in my home country, and therefore am a lifer at EK, and so along with many others must keep hope alive that it will get better, or at least not degrade to unsustainable levels.

I suppose someone in my position has to hope that enough others leave, so that it force management to improve the terms for those that must stay. If I were to go home from now the bottom line is my "lifetime earnings" and therefore retirement savings would be a fraction of what it would be if I simply suck it up and stay. It might be momentarily satisfying to throw in the towel and slam the door behind myself, but that momentary satisfaction would soon be replaced by the hard reality that financially and from a professional satisfaction point of view, the place I'm at right now is simply the best it will get for someone in my position.

I'd guess there are many others here in the same position, and I think that this conclusion is bourne out by the fact that the oft cited exodus of pilots - if indeed there really is one - has not yet resulted in either cancelled flights, parked airplanes, nor any improvement in renumeration.

Unfortunately, should I elect to go home now, I'd be at the bottom of a very large seniority list, starting over at Year Zero pay, minimal leave, a huge tax bill, and topped off with a 15 year upgrade in one of the "good" bases, or perhaps 5-10 years upgrade in one of the most expensive, and therefore undesirable bases in the country and perhaps the world.

Add to that the fact that at any of my home airlines, there are literally thousands of pilots who are both SENIOR to me, and YOUNGER than me, and my chances of advancing beyond F.O. at home, and simultaneously holding a good base or equipment become vanishingly small.

The other choices, of moving to Chinese airlines that folks on here constantly gush about, is a non-starter for me, as I'd rather open an Ice Cream truck than live in China, or commute to there. And if any of you think that our Management here take advantage of contractual loopholes, just wait til you see the shenanigans the Chinese management have in store for you, and good luck with the never ending frustration of dealing with their beaurocratic culture!

So for those reasons above, the best we can do is try to make this place the best it can be by whatever means, in order to create a positive working environment for ourselves, and to have a happy outcome at retirement time.

So I, as I suspect many of us are, do hope that many pilots here can find their "greener pastures" -and soon- so that the true shortage of pilots arises here and the contract here gets increased.

Perhaps I should open up a CV writing service and interview preparation consultancy to help this process along, and also make a little extra on the side? :8

[777-200LR]

Aeropix, never a truer word said

[EchoKilla]

I hear this a lot, and as for me I am a product of the way seniority works in my home country, and therefore am a lifer at EK, and so along with many others must keep hope alive that it will get better, or at least not degrade to unsustainable levels.

I suppose someone in my position has to hope that enough others leave, so that it force management to improve the terms for those that must stay. If I were to go home from now the bottom line is my "lifetime earnings" and therefore retirement savings would be a fraction of what it would be if I simply suck it up and stay. It might be momentarily satisfying to throw in the towel and slam the door behind myself, but that momentary satisfaction would soon be replaced by the hard reality that financially and from a professional satisfaction point of view, the place I'm at right now is simply the best it will get for someone in my position.

I'd guess there are many others here in the same position, and I think that this conclusion is bourne out by the fact that the oft cited exodus of pilots - if indeed there really is one - has not yet resulted in either cancelled flights, parked airplanes, nor any improvement in renumeration.

Unfortunately, should I elect to go home now, I'd be at the bottom of a very large seniority list, starting over at Year Zero pay, minimal leave, a huge tax bill, and topped off with a 15 year upgrade in one of the "good" bases, or perhaps 5-10 years upgrade in one of the most expensive, and therefore undesirable bases in the country and perhaps the world.

Add to that the fact that at any of my home airlines, there are literally thousands of pilots who are both SENIOR to me, and YOUNGER than me, and my chances of advancing beyond F.O. at home, and simultaneously holding a good base or equipment become vanishingly small.

The other choices, of moving to Chinese airlines that folks on here constantly gush about, is a non-starter for me, as I'd rather open an Ice Cream truck than live in China, or commute to there. And if any of you think that our Management here take advantage of contractual loopholes, just wait til you see the shenanigans the Chinese management have in store for you, and good luck with the never ending frustration of dealing with their beaurocratic culture!

So for those reasons above, the best we can do is try to make this place the best it can be by whatever means, in order to create a positive working environment for ourselves, and to have a happy outcome at retirement time.

So I, as I suspect many of us are, do hope that many pilots here can find their "greener pastures" -and soon- so that the true shortage of pilots arises here and the contract here gets increased.

Perhaps I should open up a CV writing service and interview preparation consultancy to help this process along, and also make a little extra on the side? :8

There is no such thing as a "greener pasture on the other side". But ever give a shiny ball to a cat? Yup they gonna flip out and we are the dumb cats. And all you need to do is do a run of the new pilots on HRDirect to find how many new joiners this year - sadly not too many. And yes there are flight getting cancelled no matter what you think. And yes you are right it isn't as bad as china or the other shiny balls. But what it's lacking is "reality" - nowhere in this world does inflation go up, my children's schooling go up, housing go up but my salary doesn't. And nowhere do I not even at the minute level get to take a holiday that I so CONTRACTUALLY deserve. Did you know that non ops staff have been offered unpaid leave. Yup when that happens they are trying their best to save every penny they can - so no matter how much they boast that in itself is bad times. Good luck Mr HD you have possibly made the best move ever.........

[Panther 88]

aeropix, Some nice words of justification. It depends mainly on your age. 10 years or less until retirement, probably a fair choice to stay. Where is your protection from one bad go-around or the like. Protection from perceived "insult" of the protected class. Just notice how they use "FOQA" data here.

Just some facts, Delta...captain at 18 months on a regular roster (ATL). Southwest....long upgrade but hiring 59 year olds, UPS....see above, United....almost half of the seniority retiring over the next five years, AA....no synergy from the merger, but with Airways pilots retiring at a rapid rate. Alaska....very senior list, even with the VA merger/acquisition. Just some data of the Legacy/Major airlines.

My point is, if the US is your base or have the right to work there, there has been never a better time for hiring since the '60s. There are a number of reasons to remain here, but IMHO the state of airline hiring and being on the bottom of a seniority list in the US is not a reason to stay.

EK has lost pilots to Delta, United, UPS, Southwest, Alaska, JetBlue within the last year, just to name those I'm sure of.

[Buford]

Just to add to the above, an ex-EK guy who started at Delta this January '17 has just become eligible for Captain. Four months.

[TineeTim]

Aero pix's post perfectly sums up why things will never get better for EK pilots. The fact that it was quickly seconded only illustrates it more.

Woe is me. It's too hard to move home. The contract jobs on offer aren't perfect. I want more of my colleagues to leave and fewer guys to join so management has to do more to make me stay (although I will not leave regardless of how bad they treat me)

Pathetic, really. Literally hundreds of EK guys have left in the last few years. Very, very few of them regret that decision. Many of them wish they had made the decision earlier. Heaps of very good jobs are around. None of them are perfect, many of them are a hell of a lot better than EK, but you have to get off your ars* and make an effort.

But you keep wallowing in your self-pity and waiting for others to make your life better. Those with similar attitudes make it easy for managers and ensure mid-East Pprune will be entertaining to read for years to come.

[The Outlaw]

^^ That sums it up right.

Is it apathy or Stockholm Syndrome?

[TomU]

yes, the subject is really serious.
that's why is nice to be a bit lighthearted.
don't take it personally, please.
I apologize if that made you feel bad, or you took offense for it.
No hard feelings.
KL

ps: it is damn serious, but, can we do anything about it?

No offence taken. I mis-read the levity. Thanks for the response.
Tom

[springbok449]

TT,

Thats probably one of the best posts I have ever read on this site...

[Talparc]

Aeropix: great post but a bit unrealistic, never mind, someone has to switch off the lights here at last. Good luck!

[in freedom]

As pilots you are always ahead of the airplane and you know what's coming from the present state of the flight.
When you think about the company and your job future you should apply the same concept. Forget about the meteoric rise and fairly pleasant cruise so far. The most basic business assumptions on revenue, cost and profit are no longer playing out. In other words the company is losing energy rapidly.
What if your culture prevented you from thinking about avoiding a stall? What if you insisted on executing a flight plan drafted a long time ago in a cosy office? What if you relieved your FO from duty because he called out the dropping Air Speed?
Don't believe for one minute that the realities of Global competition are more forgiving than the physics of flight. What is about to happen to EK is as unavoidable as an unmitigated stall.
When you bank your family's future on the rest of the EK journey you should not draw on past experience. The future will be very different. The longer they deny the truth, the less control they will have over the descent.

[777-200LR]

Anyone know the exact pilot numbers from your excel sheet?

[Monarch Man]

Here's the thing, I go to work, I do my think, I milk EK of EVERYTHING I can. I'll keep at it until either it goes pop or I decide one of my buckets are full. Getting upset at the asinine and archaic mentality here is a complete waste of time. When the roster gets too much the number 2 is pressed and at the subsequent "attendance" meeting I'm told it's a box ticking exercise on their part, so for me it's the same.
The job is an ATM machine, nothing more...I couldn't give 2 sh1ts what a Delta or BA or Qantas person earns, if you don't like it leave, it's really rather simple, getting angry about it merely makes you look like a fool for even contemplating that you are viewed in any better light the the wobbly headed construction worker.

[777-200LR]

I couldn't give 2 sh1ts what a Delta or BA or Qantas person earns

If someone gave me a dirham every time I thought those exact words!! Considering there are a lot of mercenaries on here, I'm not all that surprised how many times guys on here do compare.

[MacSheikh]

Aero pix's post perfectly sums up why things will never get better for EK pilots. The fact that it was quickly seconded only illustrates it more.

Woe is me. It's too hard to move home. The contract jobs on offer aren't perfect. I want more of my colleagues to leave and fewer guys to join so management has to do more to make me stay (although I will not leave regardless of how bad they treat me)

Pathetic, really. Literally hundreds of EK guys have left in the last few years. Very, very few of them regret that decision. Many of them wish they had made the decision earlier. Heaps of very good jobs are around. None of them are perfect, many of them are a hell of a lot better than EK, but you have to get off your ars* and make an effort.

But you keep wallowing in your self-pity and waiting for others to make your life better. Those with similar attitudes make it easy for managers and ensure mid-East PPRuNe will be entertaining to read for years to come.

Ah, the conceited arrogance of knowing you're right, have you worked for EK?

Some here do have reason to stay, just because you want to be the duty hero and lead the charge doesn't mean you're right. There are many who have left and are happy, there are also those who would not jump so quickly if given a second chance.

The simple fact remains that no job is perfect, but if you've had enough you'll move on. Someone having a different point of view from yours doesn't make either correct and neither does your condescending post.

[Jetkopite]

Here's the thing, I go to work, I do my think, I milk EK of EVERYTHING I can. I'll keep at it until either it goes pop or I decide one of my buckets are full. Getting upset at the asinine and archaic mentality here is a complete waste of time. When the roster gets too much the number 2 is pressed and at the subsequent "attendance" meeting I'm told it's a box ticking exercise on their part, so for me it's the same.
The job is an ATM machine, nothing more...I couldn't give 2 sh1ts what a Delta or BA or Qantas person earns, if you don't like it leave, it's really rather simple, getting angry about it merely makes you look like a fool for even contemplating that you are viewed in any better light the the wobbly headed construction worker.

Best thing ive read here as thats exactly what I do..

Milk the system to the MAX until I ME decide when ive had enough and get out... family go home this summer one way so everything is lining up nicely :ok::ok::ok:

[puff m'call]

spellin...g

Intentional:ok:

[wizard1]

A different perspective. I left EK a year ago. I'm now working elsewhere. I'm well paid, I genuinely like the people for whom I work. I respect them, they respect me. I get 121.5 days leave a year.
I was at Emirates for a long long time. I honestly didn't mind it. But on the other side what strikes me the most now is just how truly unpleasant the management attitude to the pilots was/is at EK. Perhaps it stems from the general Arab arrogance. Who knows. It's obviously going downhill fast. I'll bet the weekly bottom line is shocking. Get your licenses / ratings in order ASAP. I'm not in China and perusing the China Southern thread (take a look) there is no way on gods earth I'd work for any of that lot. But there are alternatives. And although the move seems hard, it's always that way before you actually do it. As has been alluded to in previous posts. How can anyone feel any loyalty to these people, who have treated hard working dedicated professionals with utter contempt.
It's nice to be in a different environment now. I am much much happier and that's in no small part due to the absence of the sword of Damaclese (correct my spelling !) not dangling over my head in every way.

[777-200LR]

Wizard1 nice perspective!

I don't work for EK because I want respect from management, I couldn't give a rats. I actually pity them because as others have mentioned in previous post, I'm here for me! When I'm done building up what I came for, I'll be out of here.

[Panther 88]

Having been at an airline that closed the doors, I saw the handwriting on the wall. I got out before they locked the doors. Those who stayed, for whatever reason, did not fair so well. What I'm saying is, it's a lot easier to find a position when you are current and employed vs. going non current and unemployed. The stall analogy is spot on. We are all drilled on Situational Awareness and Decision Making....think this is any different?

[Monarch Man]

Panther, the difference here is, lots don't care anymore. Rightly or wrongly I could quite happily throw away flying for good and go and do something else, financially I'm already there, but there's that part of me that now knows by hook or by crook that I'm going to drain as much blood out of this stone as humanly possible. I'll do it till I either don't want to, or can't be bothered to, purely my decision and position in life, goodluck to everyone else with their circumstances and choices.
Many of us have also been through bankruptcy and operators closing their doors, right now it doesn't feel that way, yes there are elements, but, I got paid!

[flatfootsam]

A brown nosing conniver of the highest order. The idea that there was any intention to fix anything is ludicrous. 7 years in and take the package, simple.

The only time I was threatened when working for the GCAA's accident investigation dept was by HD. it was the 777 Capt incapacitation inbound to DXB that was opened as a fatigue investigation. 'watch yourself', a remarkable statement at best, along with the song and dance routine that went along with it; a smoke and mirrors routine that could win strictly come dancing.

The GCAA principle inspector is so closely alinged with the EK management as to be indistinguishable in intent and purpose. As for the approval of the OM-A, it may as well be approved by EK...hang on a minute.

As for the other ex air lingus clown currently inhabiting the GCAA, that is another story altogether.

[ruserious]

but are you surprised?

[Odins Raven]

No one is naive enough to think Dubai would be anything like an established civilisation prior to joining. We all knew the risks and the cultural differences that come with it. It's extremely disappointing that Expat managers subscribe to that style of management but at the end of the day they joined to make as much money as possible in as short a time as possible.

Expecting things to change when the State is flat broke is wishful thinking, but if it gives people hope that's fine. Unfortunately it seems you either have to bite the bullet and leave for a better lifestyle and slightly lower salary, or make the most of what you have and accept the situation.

[Joker11]

Remember folks, we are a simple staff number at the end of the day.

[donpizmeov]

Que queen playing another one bites the dust. Hoo Roo TD. Hope you didn't hurt yourself getting your snout out of the troff.

[perthbound]

Henry preaches resilience during world wide airline turmoil in latest Safa mag.
Thanks Henry, was this written before or after you resigned.

[Odins Raven]

Que queen playing another one bites the dust. Hoo Roo TD. Hope you didn't hurt yourself getting your snout out of the troff.

Really? TD gone? His money bucket was full years ago.

Was he pushed or did he find another place in the world to hide out?

[Cloud Bunny]

Really? TD gone? His money bucket was full years ago.

Was he pushed or did he find another place in the world to hide out?

And TD is??

[luvly jubbly]

And TD is??

Cabin Crew

[Talparc]

here you can read about TD's great achievement


https://donotflyemirates.wordpress.com/2015/01/15/message-from-cabin-crew-to-terry-daly-dsvp-service-delivery/

[Pilot_Recruit]

I just clicked on that link and then clicked on the link referencing the Emirates Illuminati and it freaking redirects you to Emirates.com!!! Now that is some Emirates Illuminati Sh!t and not the kind they were going for.

I'm outside the UAE btw.

[EchoKilla]

I just clicked on that link and then clicked on the link referencing the Emirates Illuminati and it freaking redirects you to Emirates.com!!! Now that is some Emirates Illuminati Sh!t and not the kind they were going for.

I'm outside the UAE btw.

You're just getting redirected but NOT sure why to emirates. Com -- that site is banned in the UAE

[donpizmeov]

Link works for me. Am in DXB.

[I Claudius]

Hmmm, I wonder if RT will be next to "resign"?
Surely his protecting the Nome must catch up with him!