You know what...

[Dixi]

Gentlemen

It happened... the vision disappeared together with many other things ...what is going to be left other than a group of good and hardworking people who will continue to get squeezed up to the maximum with no increase in T&C at all?The golden age is over but at least the" visionaire "is no longer viewing.Long time to recover but you have a chance to get better.It has been an honour to be part of your team.
Good luck everybody....Dixi out!
Dixi

[Airmann]

It's not just Emirates it's the entire region and all the businesses in it. The gold old days of high oil prices, simple businesses, and a feeling of being out here on a bit of an adventure is gone.

The region is becoming 'economically developed' and with that comes modern societies with high costs to maintain, meaning higher fees for everything, taxes (new and increases) cities with high costs of living that squeeze people left, right and center.

The old wise Sheikhs have been replaced with young tycoons who want expansion and the latest in business thinking, meaning hiring men that will think quick and cut costs at every corner. Making money but disregarding all other 'externalities' (human, environmental or otherwise). I find that even the quality of the labourers and helpers is decreasing, where once the men and women that came over here were simple but honest and eager to learn today we find a bunch of punks with attitude.

Welcome to the new Middle East.

[gearlever]

It's not just Emirates it's the entire region and all the businesses in it. The gold old days of high oil prices, simple businesses, and a feeling of being out here on a bit of an adventure is gone.

The region is becoming 'economically developed' and with that comes modern societies with high costs to maintain, meaning higher fees for everything, taxes (new and increases) cities with high costs of living that squeeze people left, right and center.

The old wise Sheikhs have been replaced with young tycoons who want expansion and the latest in business thinking, meaning hiring men that will think quick and cut costs at every corner. Making money but disregarding all other 'externalities' (human, environmental or otherwise). I find that even the quality of the labourers and helpers is decreasing, where once the men and women that came over here were simple but honest and eager to learn today we find a bunch of punks with attitude.

Welcome to the new Middle East.

What a great, short breakdown.

Thx, you nailed it.

[Joker11]

As I said to a colleague of mine, we are 10 years too late!!!

[perthbound]

Earlier this month a friend I haven't seen in almost a year came over for dinner with his relatively new family.

He came to EK five years ago, single and lived the life of a young man with some coin in his pocket.
He married the girl of his dreams and had their first child just a year later.
They now have a second child on the way.

The young man now looks much older and a lot more stressed.
His paycheck has not kept up with the bills from his new obligations as a family man.
He took me aside and described how overwhelmed he is, his prospects for promotion (command and a larger paycheck) look further away.

I can now see that we have several hundred pilots just like my friend.
They are becoming disillusioned or more to the point they can now start to see the reality.

Paychecks are staying the same but expenses are increasing either through a change in personal life (marriage, kids) or through inflation.

As a pilot group we are in trouble, keep an eye on each other and help out when you can.

[MosEisley]

Yah, most of my friends are gone or leaving and I'll be doing the same very soon. No regrets but time to go.

[CaptainChipotle]

The force is strong with you, Mos.

[harry the cod]

DS

To live lavishly anywhere costs a LOT of money. Unless, that is, you want to live in some dodgy third World pit surrounded by homeless beggars or muggers. Dubai has never really been a cheap city to live in and some costs, particularly housing related, can be expensive. There again, try living in London for a few years or buy a box apartment in NYC. Sydney? Singapore? Tokyo? Dubai's cheap as chips relative to those and many others.

Perthbound

Any person starting a new life as a family man will find the transition difficult, regardless of where they live. "The young man now looks much older and a lot more stressed". Welcome to fatherhood!

Unfortunately, there are a number of our colleagues, and their impressionable wives, who arrive into Dubai and expect to join the glitz and glamour they see so many others enjoying. Many get suckered into living a lifestyle they 'think' they should be living, often far removed from what they would realistically live back home. The new fancy 4x4's, the brunches at $150 a pop, maids, fancy holidays and latest gadgets and computers for kids and adults alike. What they often don't realise is that apart from a fortunate few, many who live this life are debt ridden. Loans, no savings, no assets and often minimum payments on credit cards each month. It's a fantasy life lived in toy town with little or no consideration for future planning until it's too late.

Yes, our salaries are not being raised appropriately and yes, the good times are very much different compared to say 15 years ago. But Dubai is not the city it was 15 years ago and people need to realise that. If you can't accept the place for what it is, that costs will continue to rise and that living within your means is essential, then don't leave your current job to come here. There are many things that can still be done for relatively little outlay, even in summer. You just need to know where to look. Fuel is still cheap, as are essentials such as milk, flour, rice, eggs etc and local products good value. If people insist on buying imported yogurt and Wagyu beef from Spinneys each week, expect the bill to be big. It's not rocket science.

Ultimately, it will come down to supply and demand. If people really do think they can be living a better lifestyle elsewhere on less money, they'll leave. When enough do, then the T&C's will improve along with the salary.

Until then, the Company and Dubai will continue to push for it's pound of flesh!

Harry

[alwayzinit]

I sympathise with those who choose to start a family here, it is very expensive.
However, starting a family is a choice. To follow the modern mantra trotted out by the liberal MSM and other influences, that a family is a "right", is the path to real hardship, unless one has made the appropriate preparations.
In Dubai there is LOT of keeping up with "the Joneses". The new 4x4, the Clubs, the Brunches, etc etc, appear to be ESSENTIAL for many.
Then when the rugrats arrive the staggeringly eye watering costs of nannies, maids, preschools, play groups,etc etc.
I believe the UAE is one if not THE most expensive place to raise a child.
Sadly there are more than a few who have found that out too late.

[Aluminium shuffler]

Starting a family anywhere is expensive and stressful, not just DXB. Harry is exactly right in his post. Blaming the company for someone looking older, a bit more tired and more worried is showing naivity by the poster - evidently, they have never considered the effects of ageing, marriage and children. Such frivolous but frequent complaints mean that the genuine issues, problems that can be fixed, are lost in a sea of noise and make managers think all complaints are trivial.

[Trader]

Aluminum Shuffler - we can blame the tired, run down, aged look on the 90 plus hour months of constant day/night changes, bad rostering and overwork.

[ClassCbird]

Just my two pence worth; why oh why are so many young couples rushing into having children so soon after marriage? Can no one get to know each other anymore? Especially given the expat lifestyle, no immediate family for support and the flying job with all the excruciating hours you guys work. I'm not trying to attack people's life choices, however, I do feel that people need to think realistically about raising a family here and the expenses and stresses that will come with that.

[Art E. Fischler-Reisen]

Seems just like living and working in the rest of the world. Maybe some had false hopes? :(

[BigGeordie]

If being in Dubai is just like living and working in the rest of the world (and it is certainly heading that way fast) then what is the point in coming here? If you aren't making more money and/or having a better lifestyle you might as well stay in your home country. Unless you like 45 degree summers and sand....

[Cantbebothered]

It's not just Emirates it's the entire region and all the businesses in it. The gold old days of high oil prices, simple businesses, and a feeling of being out here on a bit of an adventure is gone.

The region is becoming 'economically developed' and with that comes modern societies with high costs to maintain, meaning higher fees for everything, taxes (new and increases) cities with high costs of living that squeeze people left, right and center.

The old wise Sheikhs have been replaced with young tycoons who want expansion and the latest in business thinking, meaning hiring men that will think quick and cut costs at every corner. Making money but disregarding all other 'externalities' (human, environmental or otherwise). I find that even the quality of the labourers and helpers is decreasing, where once the men and women that came over here were simple but honest and eager to learn today we find a bunch of punks with attitude.

Welcome to the new Middle East.


Well said! :ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok:

[777-200LR]

why oh why are so many young couples rushing into having children so soon after marriage? Can no one get to know each other anymore?

Probably because they met on social media! Jokes aside, this is becoming common culture around the world. Everyone wants to live like the rich kid next door, regardless whether they just arrived here or not. Building up decent wealth before rewarding oneself just doesn't happen anymore.

I once flew with a single FO who's car is worth more than a studio apartment! I'll bet he's one of those 'heavily invested' here in Dubai residents.

[fatbus]

Some people just need to vent on PPRUNE because they have no life! I recommend playing golf!

[Mr Angry from Purley]

If being in Dubai is just like living and working in the rest of the world (and it is certainly heading that way fast) then what is the point in coming here? If you aren't making more money and/or having a better lifestyle you might as well stay in your home country. Unless you like 45 degree summers and sand....

I'd rather be on the toon on a friday night to anywhere in the world!

[fantom]

I'd rather be on the toon on a friday night to anywhere in the world!

Ha'way bonny lad.

[Aluminium shuffler]

Just my two pence worth; why oh why are so many young couples rushing into having children so soon after marriage? Can no one get to know each other anymore? Especially given the expat lifestyle, no immediate family for support and the flying job with all the excruciating hours you guys work. I'm not trying to attack people's life choices, however, I do feel that people need to think realistically about raising a family here and the expenses and stresses that will come with that.

It's the "I want it now" culture of modern youth. It's the same explanation as to why personal debt is so high while so many young people are driving around in flashy cars or buy the latest phone every six months.

[Joker11]

The Arabian Dream is over.

[sia sniffer]

I joined SQ on zero money. I was a bottom dweller, and at the time my friends were similar. I had an asian GF.

Now im in Big Airlines as a senior checker trainer.

Its not the money. Its the life experience . When you loose this, then you loose it all .

I never wanted to work in the gulf . In fact , in my day , it was a rather 3rd rate place to work .
Very few in EK ever made it to BA . If you want a real career , forget being an expat . It will never reward you. Ultimately, most guys hearts will always be loyal to their mother land.

[GMC1500]

Before reading anyone else's reply, Harry the Cod was spot on with his reply.
Seems to be alot of guys here who come very young nowadays, very little experience, mostly from the emirates training academy (ryanair), who expect the world to fall at their feet before they're 30, and are gutted when it doesn't.

[harry the cod]

Desert snake

Personally, and despite the expected but still disappointing lack of salary increase this year, I'll be surprised if Jet2 can steal even double figures from our ranks. Hundreds? Forget it.

Harry

[The African Dude]

very little experience, mostly from the emirates training academy (ryanair), who expect the world to fall at their feet before they're 30

That's a pretty cheap shot. These are the same guys who fly visuals in to greek islands, 4 sectors of $hitty EU wx every day, circling approaches and non-precision without all the gubbins of a 777 let alone an A380. They bust their a$$es for years doing this on minimum rest to get a crack at EK, and if it's what they want, then it's what they deserve.

I've never worked for FR and never will, but you are way out of line.

[bigdaviet]

If Ryanair guys are spending years busting their asses to get into emirates, why did emirates have to reduce their requirements to 1500hrs on turboprops?

[Fellowship of the drink]

Flying multi sector in bad weather and visual approaches into Greek isles is one thing, a good learning attitude is another.

Some, but not all of the younger generation expect to be spoon fed. This shows in their training performance. Most of the Ryanair guys I have flown with are good operators and tend to integrate well in EK. On the flip side, I have also flown with some who spend more time trying to get laid than concentrate on the job at hand.

[The African Dude]

Fully agree with the need to have knowledge, skills AND attitude. Just wanted to point out to the previous poster that it's not reasonable to slap the same paintbrush on everyone.

[KippaLippa]

yes, got all that.
now, what is the rumour here?

[Airmann]

r.

Some, but not all of the younger generation expect to be spoon fed. This shows in their training performance.

This is because modern education is spoon feeding. So for the new generation that is all they know. They expect to be taken through things step by step. It is what has created a more educated population with higher qualifications than ever before.

[donpizmeov]

And caused the end to common sense and the practical application of knowledge.

[Monarch Man]

@african dude, GMC1500 quite frankly is spot on, but its not because these young thrusters are bad people, they merely have unrealistic expectations based upon either the rose tint in their aviators..or the fumes from the copious amounts of hair gel they use. Some of us old gits also spent half a career flying visuals into Greek Islands in the dead of night or avoiding the dreaded "Binter" ATP or ATR whilst lobbing into the canaries at 2.30am, so we have a fair appreciation of their skill set and experience base. Its all the attitude rather than the aptitude as far as I can ascertain but its also the pathetic excuse for a training programme and training department new joiners are subjected too these days. Being spoon-fed is something most aviators Ive met here (apart from the genetically superior ones) would object too, they would however benefit from a more structured (better thought through) type course that spends a little more time on the nuts and bolts of our operation and a little less time touching the highlighted key. Individually I have immense respect for the efforts the trainers put in, but yet again it would seem more of the wrong type of personalities (egos) are infiltrating the ranks along with individuals who can barely operate a line flight, let alone be a line trainer passing on their vast (450hrs total command time..maybe!) and comprehensive knowledge of all things airline.
What a predictable shambles this place continues to descend into.

just read Dons comment above...absofeckinglutly.

[The African Dude]

Fair comments, MonarchMan. Also regarding big egos... which should never exist in an airline flight deck but seem to be endlessly prevalent anyway.

[anson harris]

I don't think many pilots expect to be spoon fed in reality. What they do expect is a training department to be actually good at what it does. You know, organise classes and sims efficiently, provide them with the tools they need to get through the course so that the wheel doesn't have to be re-invented every couple of weeks, tell them how to get through the admin vortex that is the first few weeks - that kind of thing. I think it's telling that a group of pilots came up with a list of actions and procedures that need to be sorted in your first few weeks so that future courses didn't have to figure it out themselves each time. When you move to a new company and a new country at the same time, it's kinda stressful. Unfortunately the phrase "come on, you're all big boys, you can figure it out" is a phrase that I heard repeatedly in my time, which is a pretty pathetic approach to getting qualified people onto the line.

[donpizmeov]

Have you seen the EK rosters Anson? Had much luck getting any leave close to the dates when you want it? Had any pay rise lately, or in the past 7 years?
Do you really think they will treat a new joiners any differently and be helpful?
Having to run around and deal with the new joining process gives good insight to your new surrounds.

[Talparc]

Outsourcing American Jobs to Airlines with Lowest Labor Standards? | HuffPost (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/59160e25e4b0bd90f8e6a501)

[RK Blue sky]

How many pilots have to leave Emirates before our T&C improve?
So many pilots have left here and things continue to go down the drain.