Squirrel helicopter crash in Bergen, Norway May 2017

[goosl]

Norwegian news reporting a helicopter has crashed in the ocean in the city center of Bergen while attempting to land on a luxury yacht. All three occupants are accounted for and rushed to hospital.

Reported to be a AS350 with registration G-HKCN arriving from UK earlier today.

norwegian news:

Helikopter krasjet i sjøen i Bergen - Bergen - VG (http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/bergen/helikopter-krasjet-i-sjoeen-i-bergen/a/23995147/)

[RotorTom]

G-HKCN
Picture of it under water in the papers.
Helikopter styrtet i sjøen i Sandviken - Bergens Tidende (http://www.bt.no/nyheter/lokalt/Helikopter-styrtet-i-sjoen-i-Sandviken-334369b.html#&gid=1&pid=4)

[TowerDog]

Rumors says a lose tarp or a blanket got sucked into the rotor.
Guess that would do it.
The chopper flew from Shetland to Bergen, added fuel, then flew out to the boat.

[EDMJ]

Is it only me who is struggling to see where the helicopter was actually going to land on the yacht? Is that upper, rear deck on the really a helicopter landing platform? Looks awfully small.

[OvertHawk]

Bad form to link someone's name with an accident if you don't know it's true!!!!:=

[skadi]

Is it only me who is struggling to see where the helicopter was actually going to land on the yacht? Is that upper, rear deck on the really a helicopter landing platform? Looks awfully small.

The upper deck is designed as landing pad, foldable railings and flagpole...

https://bt.mnocdn.no/images/eb5591bb-9341-4e96-a3d1-80b8aa8eebb8?fit=crop&q=80&w=2048

skadi

[roundwego]

Single engine over the North Sea. That's brave. I wonder what survival gear they had. I assume it must have been non CAT.

[Skilgannon]

BACARELLA (MMSI: 319893000) Ship Photos | AIS Marine Traffic (http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/photos/of/ships/shipid:386597/#forward)

[TowerDog]

The upper deck is designed as landing pad, foldable railings and flagpole...

https://bt.mnocdn.no/images/eb5591bb-9341-4e96-a3d1-80b8aa8eebb8?fit=crop&q=80&w=2048

skadi

Have heard it called a Touch and Go Pad when it is not an "approved pad" as per shipping class rules.

The 3 onboard are alive because a rescue boat happened to be within 800 meters of the accident. The pilot and pax were out of the water and given first aid within 2 minutes, then shortly thereafter in ambulances at the nearby port of Bergen then the hospital.
Timing is everything, so is luck..:ooh:

[stilldellin]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/16633132@N04/34581836035/in/photostream/ The crew seen here kitting out with their survival suits before leaving Sumburgh. https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4194/34581836035_cb8045883d_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/UFSX3k)AS.350 G-HKCN IMG_2204 (https://flic.kr/p/UFSX3k) by Ronnie Robertson (https://www.flickr.com/photos/16633132@N04/), on Flickr

[jimcarler]

Looks like the landing pad on that boat is barely big enough anyway. Sudden gust of wind and both chopper and yacht could need serious repairs.

[EDMJ]

BACARELLA (MMSI: 319893000) Ship Photos | AIS Marine Traffic (http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/photos/of/ships/shipid:386597/#forward)

Thanks for clarifying this; looks like tight fit though :bored:

[Skilgannon]

Someone has been busy. The link I shared earlier showed a clear archive picture of the heli landed on the deck. Now every image of the heli in situ has disappeared from the internet!

[Nubian]

Someone has been busy. The link I shared earlier showed a clear archive picture of the heli landed on the deck. Now every image of the heli in situ has disappeared from the internet!

From your link (still there), 2 pictures of a helicopter on the deck, both include a sun-sail on the front upper deck.......

Reports about a flying tarp earlier on the thread....

[belly tank]

And id bet the boat (yacht) didn't hang around too long after the accident for fear of implication and media lenses, everyman for themselves :{

[G-SASY]

Good to see prudent wearing of immersion suits and fitted emergency floats on the helicopter. In the press photos these appear to have been deployed.
I pray the three chaps are okay.
There but for the grace of God...

[malabo]

Landing area looked ok for a typical helicopter yacht, no concern there. Nothing wrong with the flight to Bergen, the right personal gear and the helicopter had pop out floats (which inflated), probably a raft. I wouldn't expect suits and jackets to be worn for the hop from Bergen airport to the harbor. Unfortunate incident, but I can't see any fault with the helicopter side of the operation - yacht captain is responsible for the helipad condition and preparation to receive a helicopter.

[Fareastdriver]

Unprofessionally or unmanned helidecks are always a hazard for which a pilot has to look out for. That is a normal hazard in GAT flying. I, one instance in the North Sea, landed on the 36/22 which had been shut down and unmanned for years and as we were about to touch down a fire extinguisher cover unleashed itself and speared upwards with the sole intention of become entangled with my S76 main rotor.

Peripheral vision, honed for years in both military and civil flying enabled me to pick my helicopter up and I bolt off to the side thereby thwarting the cover in its aims. This also, for which I received no recompense whatsoever, saved Philips Petroleum and Bristow Helicopters from embarrassing insurance claims.

Sometimes it cannot be avoided. Don't knock the driver if it does.

[G-SASY]

Live AIS shows MY Bacarella still alongside the wharf in Bergen.
MarineTraffic: Global Ship Tracking Intelligence | AIS Marine Traffic (http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:5.318/centery:60.398/zoom:17)

[exlatccatsa]

13 hours flying, Booker, Oban, Kirkwall, Sumburgh, Bergen and then to the ship landing in low sun. Not a great day.

[ETOPS]

Here's a pic of a Robinson on board


https://static1.squarespace.com/static/56913be769a91a378981d367/56953e0e7086d7a3445da07c/56bf4f465559867615dccdd4/1455383875880/Superyacht+Ops.JPG?format=1500w

[Fareastdriver]

I wish I had the money where I could rent a chopper to fly me for thirteen hours, and pay for it to fly back again, instead of getting a taxi to Heathrow, first class to Bergan and then a taxi to the docks.

[ROTOR BLAST]

Didn't buy the dual hydraulic option for ship ops either eh😳

[Heliflyger]

Video of the crash from nrk.no
https://youtu.be/5QWY2tAyi-0

[joaasl]

Rumors says a lose tarp or a blanket got sucked into the rotor.
Guess that would do it.



5QWY2tAyi-0

[TowerDog]

Here is a video of the crash, released by the police to a newspaper:

Politiet: Et løst trekk som traff rotoren var trolig årsak til helikopterstyrt - Aftenposten (http://www.aftenposten.no/norge/Politiet-Et-lost-trekk-som-traff-rotoren-var-trolig-arsak-til-helikopterstyrt-621075b.html)

[G-SASY]

Could have happened to anyone...

Witness said: "It looked idyllic, absolutely by the book.

"As the helicopter came to land, I saw something that looked like a tarpaulin fly up from the deck and into the rotor blades.

"It went into a thousand pieces and everything was chaos. The pilot took off from the boat. The helicopter began to spin and landed on his back in the sea.

"It was over in five or six seconds.”

A loose fuel tank cover on the boat caused the crash, Norwegian investigators revealed today.

The metal sheet on the tank on the top deck of the £50 million Bacarella was sucked-up into the Ecuriel chopper’s rotors as it touched-down.

The pilot from HQ Aviation in Uxbridge, west London, tried to quickly take off again but his brand new £1.2 million aircraft plunged into the sea off Bergen on Wednesday evening.

The chopper, operated by a charter company in Uxbridge, West London, had set off from the Orkney Isles for the 200ft three-tier yacht which is on a world cruise.

Witness Jan Solberg, 33, saw the tarpaulin fly into the rotors.

[Cazalet33]

The bo'sn, the OOW and the Master have got some pretty serious questions to answer, it would seem.

Commiserations to the PIC of that Squirrel. Bugger all he could have done to prevent the accident.

[helisniper]

Bugger all he could have done to prevent the accident.

B****r all? Well, he could have satisfied himself the Yacht crew were competent for Helideck Ops and that there was a robust system of responsibilities, training, qualifications, etc in place. A competent operator of such ops would be all over that sort of thing.

[Nubian]

From the AIBN

https://www.aibn.no/Aviation/Investigations/17-378

''The cover was custom made for hiding a fuel depot newly installed on the helideck.''

[Cazalet33]

Helisniper,


How, pray tell, do you believe that a pilot in England, or on a tech stop at Sumburgh, could possibly have checked that the tarp (or whatever the FOD was) was secure.

We are not supermen, y'know.

Demanding 6Sigma QA stuff is for bureaucrats and office girls. Not for pilots.

One can reasonably expect that the Bo'sn and the bridge officers are seamanlike enough to take reasonable precautions before declaring "deck is clear".

My sympathies are primarily for the PIC. Very much secondarily for the Bo'sn and bridge officers who must be feeling like **** right now.

[Schweizer300pilot]

The pilot was Quentin Smith. Many of you know him as "Captain Q".. Hope they're all safe and sound.. Very unfotunate situation to be in, and nothing a pilot could possibly do to recover..

[wallism]

Dammit. All the best to you and those on board Q.

[nigelh]

Heli sniper ..... Don't be a prat .
Hope you are OK Q . What a bugger .
Nigel

[FLY 7]

And, of course, you don't need to be landing on a ship to encounter loose items - building sites, farms, gardens.......plenty of unsecured hazards.

[helisniper]

The point is that the ac commander has a responsibility to manage the risks of any landing site. As complex as yacht-heli ops are, a yacht deck environment is eminently controllable - as are the O&G industry's decks - it's a matter of having a proper safety-focused approach to doing it and no-one should land on a deck unless they know there is a system to prevent any possibility of a FOD occurrence like this.

This was a tragic occurrence but no-one should convince themselves that it was unavoidable. Learn from it and move on.

[pedroalpha]

Many of us have had similar incidents; mine was a very large plastic sack that blew into the rotor system of my Scout during landing at an operational site. Fortunately, the Scout blades are very tough and, apart from the loud bang, there was no damage.
Q, I am so glad that you escaped with minor injuries only and my best wishes for a speedy recovery for you and your passengers.
Pedro

[Fareastdriver]

The point is that the ac commander has a responsibility to manage the risks of any landing site

We know helicopters have landed on this yacht before . The helideck would have been certified up to a certain weight by the builders and registration authority. Part of the Ships Orders would be the instructions to make the deck safe for operations.

The pilot would, as I have done on innumerable operations all over the world on everything from 1,000 to 350,000 gross tonnage, land on the deck knowing that it is fit for purpose with absolute confidence.

There is nothing the operator can do beforehand and in this case there was nothing the pilot could do when it happened.

[FLY 7]

Liability will presumably be the subject of some interesting conversations between the a/c's insurers and the ship's insurers - and we'll probably never know.
Was the ship damaged?

[nigelh]

So Heli Sniper . I guess you would have travelled out to the boat and inspected the deck yourself ? I think you will find that the crew will have been well versed in checking the deck was clear . In your wisdom what else can you do other than to personally visit it yourself to check ..... Before every landing . I think you are talking nonsense!
Except the bit about learning from this of course ...

[[email protected]]

A very unfortunate incident but not the PIC's fault. Best wishes for speedy recovery.:ok:

in the military, one gets used to assuming that the non-aviation guys on the ground won't have made sure the area is safe but the captain of a vessel should be much more aware of such threats.

[212man]

Seem to recall a similar incident in the early 90s with an S76 delivering papers to the QE2 in the Solent. Loose sunbed matress got sucked into the TR and they ended up on the deck - fortunately.

[Nubian]

Spoke to a pilot many years ago at a HUET-course, that got his first job in the GOM flying Jetrangers. On his very first day at work, a cover for a fire extinguisher on deck flew up into his MR just like in this accident and he ended up ditching next to the platform. All on board exited safely from pure luck, as this was before HUET was common.

[Heliplane]

When approaching landing sites, I do wonder what effect my (R44) downwash will have on items/debris near where intend to set down. I try to stay away from things like sticks, chopped wood and items that look like they don't weigh much and the most that usually happens is a bit of dry cut grass is kicked up, which I don't worry about too much.

When asking instructors, etc about the risks of objects flying up, I've generally been told that I wouldn't be creating enough downwash for anything serious to lift up and cause a problem.

Does anyone have any further thoughts or experience they can share on this?

[G-SASY]

When approaching landing sites, I do wonder what effect my (R44) downwash will have on items/debris near where intend to set down. I try to stay away from things like sticks, chopped wood and items that look like they don't weigh much and the most that usually happens is a bit of dry cut grass is kicked up, which I don't worry about too much.

When asking instructors, etc about the risks of objects flying up, I've generally been told that I wouldn't be creating enough downwash for anything serious to lift up and cause a problem.

Does anyone have any further thoughts or experience they can share on this?

One of the videos online shows the cover going straight UP the back wall of the superstructure, arcing over, and coming down on TOP of the rotor disk. A loud bang and seven or eight pieces flying in all directions. Looked like recirculation of the downwash ie along the deck, up the wall and back down through the rotor. We've all felt the turbulance recirculation causes when hovering close to a hanger wall. Just my speculation, but such an UPDRAFT from a heavy B3 (just refueled, 3 POB, luggage), feet from the aft wall of the superstructure, would be very powerful - clearly enough to lift the metal cover in this instance.

PIC is a hero, getting heli off the deck into the drink, on its back. If he hadn't, a dynamic rollover on deck next to a full Jet A1 storage tank and full heli tank would have caused a fire ball. He probably saved the ship and everybody in it. Amazing presence of mind to trigger the floats when already submerged and inverted.

[G-SASY]

I wish I had the money where I could rent a chopper to fly me for thirteen hours, and pay for it to fly back again, instead of getting a taxi to Heathrow, first class to Bergan and then a taxi to the docks.

Luckily there are some people who see the value in hiring helicopters and pilots to transport them. If there weren't, many people posting on this forum would be out of a job.

[chopjock]

SASY
but such an UPDRAFT from a heavy B3 (just refueled , 3 POB, luggage),
It was landing having flown 200nm from Sumburgh, so not just refuelled.:ok:

[Fareastdriver]

The reports suggest he refueled at Bergan airport. In any case you cannot just fly into another country and land on a ship in the harbour without clearing customs and immigration first.

[megan]

most that usually happens is a bit of dry cut grass is kicked up, which I don't worry about too muchDon't know a piston would fare, but would assume it could be sucked in and clog the filter. Squadron had it happen on a Huey hovering over fresh mown grass and found the problem when investigating the far higher than normal EGT. Hovering down the line of revetments when a full sheet of plywood attacked the rotor and left the Huey with an enormous vertical. Maintenance reckoned the mast was twisted.

[FlimsyFan]

I hope Q and the rest of the POB are making speedy recoveries. Totally agree that Q's quick thinking averted something considerably more catastrophic, and his presence of mind in massive adversity has probably saved a number of lives.

When he's fully recovered, I hope he can find me another brand new Squirrel for the reported £1.2m!

[[email protected]]

Would the flot gear not have an auto-inflation capability via an immersion switch?

[Ancient Mariner]

According to local newspapers the pilot swam back into the sinking helicopter, released the flotation devices as well as a trapped passenger.
Well done him.
Per

[malabo]

Auto-inflate is something I've only seen in recent years on medium and up helicopters. Stymied by everyone except Leonardo insisting on some arbitrary low "arm" speed. All singles I've flown have an electric switch on the collective or mechanical switch, sometime both.

Tough call by the pilot - he could have alternatively just plunked it on the pad a-la-S92. Might have got away with nothing catastrophic either way. You pays your money and takes your chances. First hint of heroism is swimming back to the sinking helicopter, nothing before.

[M609]

Press conference by mr Smith. (http://www.bt.no/nyheter/lokalt/--Vi-kunne-ikke-vart-heldigere-nar-uhellet-forst-skjedde-334518b.html)

[Nubian]

Would the flot gear not have an auto-inflation capability via an immersion switch?

You have to arm the floats with a button on the pedestal, and shoot them with a guarded switch on the collective in a machine as new as this.

[[email protected]]

According to local newspapers the pilot swam back into the sinking helicopter, released the flotation devices as well as a trapped passenger.
Well done him.was that the Norwegian equivalent of the Daily Mail?

He says in the interview the flot gear was fired very soon after water entry (or implies that) If he had escaped then gone back in he would have been very foolish and the aircraft would have probably been well underwater by then so not very likely.

Getting an 'uncontrollable' helicopter into the water without dying is due to a great deal of luck rather than skill I would suggest - the PIC suddenly became a passenger when they were hit by the tarpaulin.

[G-SASY]

I think we should wait until the accident report before claiming anyone to be a "hero". did he have deck clearance? was he in contact with the boat beforehand etc etc

Seriously? You think they just wandered up to a stray boat and tried to land? The boat owner was onboard the helicopter. Swimming back to a sinking helicopter three times to save others is definitely the act of a hero.

[G-SASY]

was that the Norwegian equivalent of the Daily Mail?

He says in the interview the flot gear was fired very soon after water entry (or implies that) If he had escaped then gone back in he would have been very foolish and the aircraft would have probably been well underwater by then so not very likely.

Getting an 'uncontrollable' helicopter into the water without dying is due to a great deal of luck rather than skill I would suggest - the PIC suddenly became a passenger when they were hit by the tarpaulin.

So you wouldn't have risked your life going back to save others? Understood.

[nigelh]

As the pilot I would say you have a definite duty of care to your pax . You put them in the water then it's up to you to get them out of the aircraft whatever the risk to you . Knowing Q I would have no doubt in what his actions would be if it was necessary. That doesn't however make you a " hero " !!

[jeepys]

Christ, it was like watching the scene of someone getting their first oscar. Is he after a Norgy residency or does he always blow sunshine up everyone's arse?
Agree with Nigelh that the pax are your responsibility so I would be doing the same thing. Look what happens when you don't - Capt Shettino, Costa Concordia.

Like many accidents it could have gone a few ways. Staying put may have been the better option but with a helicopter out of control like that then you really are relying on luck to get you out.
It would be interesting to hear a press release from the ships captain!

[rattle]

Some interesting replies here, some kinder than others. Maybe we can just be grateful that unlike most accidents that are discussed on here, the pilot is remarkably alive and well to tell us what happened. If you have to make a split second decision when it all goes tits up, you are going to be grateful to be a position to make a press conference. Clearly still in shock and deeply concerned for his friend, maybe we should wonder how much sense we would make only days after surviving this incident.

[jeepys]

Fair one rattle.
I was wondering why the press conference in the first place.

[H Peacock]

What an extraordinary press conference! I guess he has confirmed that he was still actively flying the thing until he successfully landed on the water.

[[email protected]]

G-SASY So you wouldn't have risked your life going back to save others? Understood. No. have you been HUET trained? The last thing you do is go back in to a helicopter that is sinking.

I only watched the first 8 minutes of the press conference as it was rather cringeworthy - did he actually say he went back in to the aircraft having got out? With the floats inflated and the aircraft stable, it would be less of a risk to go back to help others unstrap. Were they HUET trained?

[G-SASY]

why does he keep referring to "all three pilots"?

Because all three POB were qualified pilots.

[Reverserbucket]

This morning's Times described him as an 'aerobatic' pilot. I've seen him perform some tricks, but is this an accurate description? I appreciate there have been other incidents however surely in this case there can be no doubt about the nature of this accident? An unusual press conference though, for sure.

[G-SASY]

of course not, but he would need some sort of signal from the deck crew that the helipad was cleared for a landing. ie free of obstacles, people.

You are right of course. Note from the videos online that the crew had laid down the railings surrounding the helipad to receive the heli, with crew evacuating the rear decks.
Apparently the ship was positioned head to wind to receive the heli, with continuous countdown to arrival, 3hrs out, 1hr out, 15m, 3m, 2m, final etc...

[G-SASY]

Agreed.

I also have a suspicion G-SASY is friends with the pilot.

Sure we are friends, and proud of it. As it happens I have flown the same route with Q years ago; London, Perth, Shetlands, Bergen. Q was very professional and well prepared; insisted on immersion suits, lifejackets, personal EPIRBS, carry a life raft, floats fitted to heli, extensive preflight checks and briefing, all subject to having perfect weather. I have to assume he approached last weeks flight with equal professionalism.

I'm a little disappointed in some of the bitter postings on this forum. The three chaps have been through a hell of an ordeal I hope none of us have ever to face. Clear from the interview, Q is still suffering from shock and fearful for his friend, which I think we should all understand.

I've done the dunker training (but never the real thing) as many of you would have done. It is very disorienting and getting back into the heli three times in 8 degree water to save others would be very challenging and more you could reasonably expect from the average chap.

[[email protected]]

I've done the dunker training (but never the real thing) as many of you would have done. It is very disorienting and getting back into the heli three times in 8 degree water to save others would be very challenging and more you could reasonably expect from the average chap. yes, it is disorientating getting out of the aircraft and you would normally inflate your lifejacket once clear. I don't know if he did that or not but it would have made getting back into the helo nigh on impossible.

If he did go back in (do we know that for sure) 3 times (why when there were only 2 others in it) but with the floats inflated and the helo inverted and stable then yes, it is an admirable thing to do and I suspect in those conditions, properly suited up and with adrenaline pumping, most of us would have done the same to rescue friends.

[Avfly]

I have to say that everyone involved did a great job with the situation they had to contend with. The Pilots and accident boards should now be left in piece until the full official report comes out. I guess the ships captain may need to interviewed about the open heli deck and update the procedure for future operations.

[RMK]

I too find many of the posts above distasteful.

Ideally a web forum would serve as source of information (& possibly entertainment) on an activity or topic. Unfortunately, they often serve as no more than therapy for the insecure.

Among the forums I frequent (helicopter flying, skydiving, wingsuit flying, yachting, white-water kayaking & photography), incongruously I find the higher the average age of the forum users - the more juvenile the level of discussion. In questioning the case as to why a discussion among a group of guys with a median age of 25 is more cordial/professional than a group with a median age more like 60, I see it comes down to insecurity.

For the examples of the forums noted above, the most childish discussions/behaviour emanate from the two forums with the highest proportion of “gentlemen of a certain age” – namely the photography forum and PPrune Rotorheads. I see the common element being persons who personally feel they don’t receive the notice they deserve (either monetarily or via peer recognition).

[G-SASY]

yes, it is disorientating getting out of the aircraft and you would normally inflate your lifejacket once clear. I don't know if he did that or not but it would have made getting back into the helo nigh on impossible.

If he did go back in (do we know that for sure) 3 times (why when there were only 2 others in it) but with the floats inflated and the helo inverted and stable then yes, it is an admirable thing to do and I suspect in those conditions, properly suited up and with adrenaline pumping, most of us would have done the same to rescue friends.

Sure Q would, like you, see it as a natural duty to go back despite the strident professional advice in HUET training to "never go back in". From the interview seems heli was on its side and sinking fast. First time back in to activate float switch (which remarkably worked considering electric release submerged) second time for David, third time for Charlie. 1m visibility, low light, cold water, wreckage adding to the task. Also activation of floats caused heli to invert from its side extremely quickly (inflation time is 1s to 2s in the book) no doubt adding to the challenge.

[nigelh]

Well done Crab .... You JUST saved yourself at the end 👏
Because if you had carried on with the " don't re enter !"
Line you would have been shredded . I don't care what it says .... Could you just tread water and watch your friends drown ??? I personally wouldn't want to survive like that .

[[email protected]]

Nigel - the advice about not going back in comes from an Army pilot who crashed a Lynx into the water, escaped himself and then went back in for his mates. The aircraft sank and all were lost.

Q was very lucky not to get snagged on a sinking aircraft before he got the floats inflated and he did do well to get the others out.

RMK In questioning the case as to why a discussion among a group of guys with a median age of 25 is more cordial/professional than a group with a median age more like 60, I see it comes down to insecurity. perhaps it is more to do with levels of experience and knowledge gained from painful situations among the older ones. Perhaps also the older ones among us are less likely to be pink and fluffy about things and tell it like it is

[nigelh]

I get what you say , but it doesn't alter the fact that you , as PIC , should put yourself in harms way to save your pax . It may work or it may not but you won't know until you have tried your best .

[Cazalet33]

I'm somewhat dismayed to see people here dissing Q.

He did the right thing(s) in a difficult situation for which he was physically and mentally and personally prepared. Character, in a word.

Sure, it's not the stuff of a George Cross, but he did the right things and he made a beneficial difference in a situation which could so easily have had several much worse outcomes in the hands of a lesser man.

Good on 'im, I say.

I'd much rather see him step forward to receive an honour from a livery company in the City than that much less worthy woman who so falsely made so many claims of her own achievements. I think that that particular dining and dressing society could perhaps partly redeem themselves by recognising Q with a small metal disc and some nice words in recognition of what he actually did when things so suddenly turned to ****.

[EddieHeli]

I'd much rather see him step forward to receive an honour from a livery company in the City than that much less worthy woman who so falsely made so many claims of her own achievements. I think that that particular dining and dressing society could perhaps partly redeem themselves by recognising Q with a small metal disc and some nice words in recognition of what he actually did when things so suddenly turned to ****.

Yep, Well Said, Seconded

[albatross]

I have landed on a few oil rigs, and the worst are "permanent installations" in the tropics where covers for various fixtures and the nylon ropes securing them have been sun bleached to the point where they are degraded to breaking point. A big problem which can easily be missed in a safety check. The lashings may look safe but grab one, give it a good jerk and it fails. In the constant safety checks these covers become "background noise" there is no program for close inspection or regular replacement. In this case..who fabricated this cover or certified that it was safe and properly secured? Hope everyone recovers from their injuries. As for awards and medals....I think we are getting way ahead of the parade.

I always remember the description given by a friend after an unsecured 3* sleeping bag flew up into the rotor system of his 500C .."Boys, I was over on my back faster than a cheap, ugly Saturday night whore at closing time!"

[DOUBLE BOGEY]

I liked the press conference. Praising the Norwegian Emergency services is a natural thing to do if you feel that your life or the life of your friend was saved by their help. I have not met Q but he seems a decent guy with a great beard.

Some really stupid arrogant posts on this thread. I have spent a lot of time over the ocean in a helicopter. Done the HUET thing a few times. However to listen to the reality of an unexpected ditching is very interesting having only imagined what it would be like.

I suspect the vitriolic posts on this thread are more to do with envy that three friends can up sticks, do a great flight to a super yacht just because they can. (Albeit as Q says, it ended with an accident).

I once took a Tesco step carrier bag into my disc on a night HEMS tak-off. No vibration but the noise was so dramatic my arse had eaten most of the seat cushion during the subsequent reject.

On the hero subject I recall another helicopter pilot and I am ashamed to say I have forgotten his name. He jumped into the maelstrom of water in the centre of the AH001 jacket (I think I have that right) to try and save some Bears who were trapped in there.only because he was the only one with an immersion suit on. I think he is a fixed wing pilot now and I recall talking to him on the ATC as he swanned over the NS on his way to somewhere exotic. He was also a really nice guy. He did get a medal for his incredible selfless act.

Good job Q and ignore the tossers on this thread!

[albatross]

Landing on a lux yacht one would expect all checks to be done in preparation for your arrival to have been completed.
I am sure they had "Deck Clearance" via radio before landing was initiated.

I would, after the event, if no lives were in danger, to make my way at max swimming speed to the boat and proceed, with extreme violence, to show the Capt. how an anchor works. JOKE!

[chopsticks]

In this case..who fabricated this cover or certified that it was safe and properly secured?

According to the local newspaper (I live in the area), it was just installed. Made by a local sail manufacturer, and installed on Monday the 8th, accident happened on Wednesday the 10th.

[opfixclear]

I liked the press conference. Praising the Norwegian Emergency services is a natural thing to do if you feel that your life or the life of your friend was saved by their help. I have not met Q but he seems a decent guy with a great beard.

Some really stupid arrogant posts on this thread. I have spent a lot of time over the ocean in a helicopter. Done the HUET thing a few times. However to listen to the reality of an unexpected ditching is very interesting having only imagined what it would be like.

I suspect the vitriolic posts on this thread are more to do with envy that three friends can up sticks, do a great flight to a super yacht just because they can. (Albeit as Q says, it ended with an accident).

I once took a Tesco step carrier bag into my disc on a night HEMS tak-off. No vibration but the noise was so dramatic my arse had eaten most of the seat cushion during the subsequent reject.

On the hero subject I recall another helicopter pilot and I am ashamed to say I have forgotten his name. He jumped into the maelstrom of water in the centre of the AH001 jacket (I think I have that right) to try and save some Bears who were trapped in there.only because he was the only one with an immersion suit on. I think he is a fixed wing pilot now and I recall talking to him on the ATC as he swanned over the NS on his way to somewhere exotic. He was also a really nice guy. He did get a medal for his incredible selfless act.

Good job Q and ignore the tossers on this thread!


My memory fades but I think the guy was Max (or was it Curtis ?) and it was on the MCP01. Early to mid 90s.

[JBL99]

Good job Q and ignore the tossers on this thread!

Agreed! Seems some on here have an axe to grind.

[gasax]

The incident just above was on MCP01 in Feb 1998.
At that time is was run in unmanned mode with the crew visiting by helicopter. One of the maintenance crew fell into the large space between the jarlan wall and central core. The standby vessel launched an FRC and one of the crew crawled / swam through the holes in the jarlan wall and tried to rescue him. Both died after spending some 40 minutes in the water.

The helicopter co-pilot was Neil Gordon and seems to be generally 'unsung'. The crewman from the FRC was awarded a George Medal.

The helicopter pilot

[OlaM]

If he did go back in (do we know that for sure) 3 times (why when there were only 2 others in it).

First time to activate the float switch. Second time after the aircraft settled under the floats, to look for the others, unsuccessfully. When he surfaced second time, one of them was up. Third time to look once more, he saw an arm, yanked on it and out came the third. No doubt beneath your standards, you would probably have only needed one breath of air to save both pax, the iPad, the logbook and the fuel receipts.

It's worth noticing that the second person to surface did so by himself, but was the one who needed CPR just minutes later. Exhaustion, hypothermia, previous conditions perhaps. It ain't over till it's over.

[G-SASY]

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjgtqrJu_fTAhXBLMAKHTEjBMwQFggxMAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.heliweb.com%2Fquentin-smith-helicopter-hero%2F&usg=AFQjCNEmsbDDrLKp2JlENc1XlZsWMtcmzg

[G-SASY]

Mmmmm.....

Your point Alphanumeric?
You saying there is a relationship between an engine failure 14 years ago and an accident involving a loose cover? Q has some 15,000 hours and a wide range of experiences. Have you left your armchair yet?

[pedroalpha]

Others have already said it but I would suggest to those that find relief by criticising the actions of a fellow pilot that they might consider how they might fare when required to face a foreign press corps, in shock, following an accident. They should understand that in Norway, there is a certain sensitivity in respect of helicopter accidents. Well done Q, you responded well on behalf of our industry. Thank you.
Pedro

[puntosaurus]

Who required him to face a foreign press corps ? How ?

[RMK]

Another view on web forums is that most problematic posters are either the those with the highest number of posts or the least.

Alphanumeric, I’ve just scrolled up the page and I see you have a total 28 posts thus far on PPrune with 9 of those attacking Q in this thread alone.

If life hasn’t turned out for you in the manner you wished – keep it to yourself. If you have a problem with him, drive over to Denham and speak with him on his return. We’ve grown tired of this nonsense.

[Bravo73]

Alphanumeric, I’ve just scrolled up the page and I see you have a total 12 posts thus far on PPrune with 9 of those attacking Q in this thread alone.


Unfortunately, you can't always judge a poster by his number of posts. alphanumeric, and his many other alter-egos, has posted hundreds, if not thousands, of times on PPRuNe. However, for some reason, he likes to delete his previous posts as he goes along.

[jeepys]

I think this thread is done now at least until the accident report comes out.
It almost feels like a PR stunt with press releases and magazine articles that really do go a bit far.
I did laugh at the heli web articles last paragraph in that industry experts reckon he landed the helicopter in such a way to dissipate the energy of the rotors. Don't you just love those industry experts!

[KiwiNedNZ]

"The helicopter landing almost upside down in the water, was speculated by some industry experts contacted by Heliweb Magazine in relation to the accident as possibly an intentional move by Smith to dissipate the power of the spinning rotor blades that would destroy themselves on impact."

Most hilarious comment I have read about this accident - glad Q and the others are ok and they all make a speedy recovery.

[EddieHeli]

Yet if you read about ditching a helicopter it does say to do exactly that.

A normal flare is performed, and then as the helicopter settles into the water the pilot decreases rotor RPM to minimum and uses lateral cyclic to roll the aircraft on its side. This causes the blades to strike the water and immediately stop turning, so that people are not hit by turning blades while evacuating from the aircraft. Most helicopters will sink fairly quickly since there are not normally large spaces to trap air in a helicopter. This makes it critical that everyone is briefed in how to get clear of the helicopter and get to the surface of the water.

[G-SASY]

Yup, actually the R44 Pilot Operating Manual explicity says to do this "Apply lateral cyclic when aircraft contacts water to stop rotors"

[malabo]

It isn't lateral either way, but on the side that will encourage the transmission to rip away from the occupants and the opposite blade to fold away from the cockpit. For a Bell or R44 that is right lateral and for Eurocopter left.

[KiwiNedNZ]

On its side yes could understand that but completely upside down as per their reference ??

[jeepys]

If it's a controlled ditching (unlike this one) then rolling the thing over would be daft especially if it is likely it will stay upright. As soon as it rolls your chance of survival significantly decrease.
Maybe a flimsy Robinson gearbox might get ripped out with a roll but unlikely to happen to anything more robust.

[212man]

The video clearly shows it was not a controlled ditching, and the aircraft entered the water more or less inverted. The conference gives a clue as to why there was not more control available - based on the fact that the cyclic was thrashing around at 6 Hz!

[XV666]

No-one denies that returning into a crashed, semi submerged helicopter was a brave move, but the implication that it was in any way a controlled ditching and logical set of moves is bulltish.

If the Squirrel was landed under control then the first action would/should have been to inflate the floats and prevent it rolling: that's what they are for. The video indicates that after the impact with the cover the pilot and pax were along for the ride. I'd be very doubtful that there was even a conscious decision to fly away from the deck, but no doubt Q can come along in one of his posts here and tell us first hand.

Hopefully without the self promotion.

G-SASY, no doubt you will support your friend/relative but ditching instructions for a Robinson should not be seen as relevant to ditching a Squirrel with flotation gear.

[Nubian]

Yet if you read about ditching a helicopter it does say to do exactly that.

A normal flare is performed, and then as the helicopter settles into the water the pilot decreases rotor RPM to minimum and uses lateral cyclic to roll the aircraft on its side. This causes the blades to strike the water and immediately stop turning, so that people are not hit by turning blades while evacuating from the aircraft. Most helicopters will sink fairly quickly since there are not normally large spaces to trap air in a helicopter. This makes it critical that everyone is briefed in how to get clear of the helicopter and get to the surface of the water.

EddieHeli and G-SASY,

A controlled ditching of a helicopter in dead calm conditions, equipped with pop-out floats does not look like this...
What you are referring to is ditching a helicopter without floats, which was not the case here. The out of control helicopter could very well have ended up back onto the boat, but luckily it didn't.

They were extremely lucky, but for Q to go into the sinking helicopter 2-3 times after the crash is regardless what happened commendable!

[G-SASY]

EddieHeli and G-SASY,

A controlled ditching of a helicopter in dead calm conditions, equipped with pop-out floats does not look like this...
What you are referring to is ditching a helicopter without floats, which was not the case here. The out of control helicopter could very well have ended up back onto the boat, but luckily it didn't.

They were extremely lucky, but for Q to go into the sinking helicopter 2-3 times after the crash is regardless what happened commendable!

I take your point Nubian and agree with your conclusion. I just make the point that causing the rotors to impact the water first to reduce risk to those attempting to leave the helicopter is not without precedent or logic. I own/fly a B4 equipped with similar pop-out floats. If you have the luxury of a gentle landing, flaring and settling on the surface upright with floats deployed, fine. But Q does not seem to have had this option. The video shows a controlled crash away from the ship into the sea tail first and on its side, which may have been the best outcome possible in the circumstances. The floats are held by just one bolt front and back, and are fragile. I holed one float just by it abrading against the step when stowed in the hangar. If the floats had been deployed before the heli hit the water at speed, they would probably have ruptured. See the size of the splash in the video? So the best achievable outcome may have been landing on its side away from the ship without the floats deployed, then deploying the floats to prevent it sinking. This is when the aircraft became fully inverted of course. I haven't spoken to Q since the crash and so like everybody, is trying to make the best from the available information, and hopefully learn from it.

[311kph]

The video shows a controlled crash
Where's that other video?!

[Hot and Hi]

They were extremely lucky, but for Q to go into the sinking helicopter 2-3 times after the crash is regardless what happened commendable!Certainly, specifically if considering the water temperature in Bergen (https://www.seatemperature.org/europe/norway/bergen.htm). According to this website, the seawater temperature there today is around 9 deg C. Everywhere else we are told that exposure to frigid water below 10 deg C will cause immediate cold water shock, preventing even good swimmers to reach the near shore. :cool:

Regarding the floats deployment, the pilot stated here Quentin Smith - The Hero of the Norway Helicopter Crash | Heliweb Magazine (http://heliweb.com/quentin-smith-helicopter-hero/) that he did not deploy the floats before the impact:

Smith risked his own life getting back in the helicopter to activate the emergency floats on the upturned helicopter

[Old Age Pilot]

The video shows a controlled crash away from the ship into the sea tail first and on its side, which may have been the best outcome possible in the circumstances.

Surely the whole reason for ditching here is due to the fact that the rotors were damaged to the point that the aircraft was becoming rapidly uncontrollable?

The reason "Q does not seem to have had this option" is due to not being able to control it to do so. If he was able to put it in the water at any angle or speed of his choice, I'm sure he would've popped the floats and sat nicely on the flat calm water.

All adds up to an UNcontrolled crash I would say.

[skadi]

According to this website, the seawater temperature there today is around 9 deg C. Everywhere else we are told that exposure to frigid water below 10 deg C will cause immediate cold water shock, preventing even good swimmers to reach the near shore. :cool:


But not with immersion suits! I had no problems in waters of about 2°C, made that experience in seasurvival courses more than one time ...

skadi

[Hot and Hi]

Oh, does is say anywhere that any or all pax were wearing immersion suits?

[Cows getting bigger]

"Q..... in control"? Let me just ponder that.

[Helinaut]

Hot and Hi....Looking at the picture on the first page, it does look like that some kind of protection suite has been worn by all on board. :8

[EESDL]

Q v press conference - surprised?
Come on everyone - he's a self-made 'Legend' - in his own lunchtime etc etc and he'll produce a 'training' video to show it.
Come on folks - the yacht messed up, Q messed up - i.e. had to go back to activate the floats rather than activate them prior - assuming no immersion switch on brand new 350.
Fantastic getting pax out but too much spin here at the moment.
The reference to the Chile incident probably refers to the fact that engines 'fail' when they run out of go juice.
Great news that all ok but if you run a straw poll on here as to whether or not the Heli Industry is better or worse off with Q's contribution - you might be surprised at the result.
Q courts publicity - you live by it and you die by it - figuratively speaking of course.
I like 'characters' but some people try just to hard to be one......

[XV666]

I take your point Nubian and agree with your conclusion. I just make the point that causing the rotors to impact the water first to reduce risk to those attempting to leave the helicopter is not without precedent or logic. I own/fly a B4 equipped with similar pop-out floats. If you have the luxury of a gentle landing, flaring and settling on the surface upright with floats deployed, fine. But Q does not seem to have had this option. The video shows a controlled crash away from the ship into the sea tail first and on its side, which may have been the best outcome possible in the circumstances. The floats are held by just one bolt front and back, and are fragile. I holed one float just by it abrading against the step when stowed in the hangar. If the floats had been deployed before the heli hit the water at speed, they would probably have ruptured. See the size of the splash in the video? So the best achievable outcome may have been landing on its side away from the ship without the floats deployed, then deploying the floats to prevent it sinking. This is when the aircraft became fully inverted of course. I haven't spoken to Q since the crash and so like everybody, is trying to make the best from the available information, and hopefully learn from it.

As an owner and operator of a Squirrel variant with floats, you should be more familiar with the Flight Manual Supplement for Emergency Flotation Gear. All Squirrels and the EC-130 have a similar set of limitations and emergency procedures, which include a max IAS of 135kts inflated, a maximum altitude of 6,600ft, a mandatory requirement for the floats to be armed when overwater below 400ft and recommended maximum inflation speed of 80kts in an emergency. Your B4 emergency procedures are on 9-17-3, to help you check. (Most of us with experience would recommend ignoring the instruction on 9-17-4 to apply the rotor brake after touch down, however!)

Nothing whatsoever in the AS350/EC-130 manuals about rolling into the water after ditching, nothing at all about gentle landings on the water, just a note to 'avoid ramming of the nose of the floats on touch-down'.

I still believe that there was little or no control of this accident after the cover impacted the blades and an opportunity to inflate the floats was missed. Crash, yes; controlled, no. To hold a press conference tending to self promotion is not what most helicopter pilots would be comfortable with.

[skadi]

Oh, does is say anywhere that any or all pax were wearing immersion suits?


Post #10 , look at the picture!

skadi

[tu154]

Post #10 , look at the picture!

skadi

Showed what was being worn on that particular leg, but we don't know what was being worn on the accident leg.

[RVDT]

a mandatory requirement for the floats to be armed when overwater below 400ft and recommended maximum inflation speed of 80kts in an emergency. Your B4 emergency procedures are on 9-17-3, to help you check. (Most of us with experience would recommend ignoring the instruction on 9-17-4 to apply the rotor brake after touch down, however!)

On the B4 there is an SB for the screws being too long in the belly panel. Interferes with the harness of the floats and can fire them in the cruise. Definitely a bodice ripper and can bring a tear to a glass eye!! The MR blades on the unfortunate specimen touched the tail boom as it stood on its face!

[G-SASY]

As an owner and operator of a Squirrel variant with floats, you should be more familiar with the Flight Manual Supplement for Emergency Flotation Gear. All Squirrels and the EC-130 have a similar set of limitations and emergency procedures, which include a max IAS of 135kts inflated, a maximum altitude of 6,600ft, a mandatory requirement for the floats to be armed when overwater below 400ft and recommended maximum inflation speed of 80kts in an emergency. Your B4 emergency procedures are on 9-17-3, to help you check. (Most of us with experience would recommend ignoring the instruction on 9-17-4 to apply the rotor brake after touch down, however!)

Nothing whatsoever in the AS350/EC-130 manuals about rolling into the water after ditching, nothing at all about gentle landings on the water, just a note to 'avoid ramming of the nose of the floats on touch-down'.

I still believe that there was little or no control of this accident after the cover impacted the blades and an opportunity to inflate the floats was missed. Crash, yes; controlled, no. To hold a press conference tending to self promotion is not what most helicopter pilots would be comfortable with.

Heli thank you so much for the reminder of what is in my Flight Manual, but I'm not sure what your point really is? The video on BBC web site gives a pretty good view of the accident if you play it full screen and freeze frame. I've just timed the incident from impacting the cover to hitting the water- 5.5 seconds. You and very few others seem to suggest that Q should have been able to control the aircraft more, and "missed the opportunity" to inflate the floats in that 5.5 seconds. From the interview and videos it seems clear that Q had a hell of a battle controlling (you say not controlling) the aircraft just to avoid hitting the ship, which was a clear priority. In the interview he referred to "large amplitude oscillations of the cyclic at about 6hz" (presume due to severely out of balance main rotor following impact damage?) I understand his legs are badly bruised from impacting the cyclic repeatedly, such was the battle for control. Perhaps your reactions would have been even faster and you would found the time to activate the floats before hitting the water? Q did however activate the floats post impact, and this prevented the aircraft sinking.

My belief is (and I have no idea if this was Q's thinking or not) if the floats HAD been inflated when the aircraft hit the water at high speed they would have ruptured and the aircraft would have gone to the bottom with two people in it. The maximum IAS of 80kts you quote is for inflation when flying, not the speed at which the water can be impacted with floats deployed. The floats are quite fragile fabric bags, not in the least bit hydrodynamically shaped, and I suggest anything faster than a flare and gentle settling onto the water would destroy the floats, and flip the helicopter. The video suggests that gently landing upright on the water was never an option, nor was "applying the rotor brake after touchdown".

Research by EASA and Eurocopter www.easa.europa.eu/system/files/dfu/EASAfinalreport.pdf shows that damage to the Emergency Floatation System following impact with water is very likely, and also that the best chance of escape is when the helicopter is lying on its side. I did not suggest that the AS350 or EC130 Flight manual recommended rolling into the water after ditching. I did make the point however, that there is some logic to ditching on its side (if you are unable to do a controlled level landing with floats deployed), in order to dissipate the energy of the rotor and facilitate escape from the aircraft. Such a recommendation has made its way into at least one Type Flight Manual.

You and the other posters have now had 10 days to think through what you might have done, and what Q should have done, in what was a violent, unplanned accident. Q had just 5.5 seconds to react and I believe he did an extraordinarily good job in the adverse circumstances.

I find it incredible that any "experienced" fellow pilot would do anything but congratulate Q on his bravery and skilled handling of the situation, and hope to never be tested in that way themselves. Whatever you feel you might have been able to do better in the same situation, Q actually did save two peoples lives, and they and their families opinions are what should count most.

[G-SASY]

Q v press conference - surprised?
Come on everyone - he's a self-made 'Legend' - in his own lunchtime etc etc and he'll produce a 'training' video to show it.
Come on folks - the yacht messed up, Q messed up - i.e. had to go back to activate the floats rather than activate them prior - assuming no immersion switch on brand new 350.
Fantastic getting pax out but too much spin here at the moment.
The reference to the Chile incident probably refers to the fact that engines 'fail' when they run out of go juice.
Great news that all ok but if you run a straw poll on here as to whether or not the Heli Industry is better or worse off with Q's contribution - you might be surprised at the result.
Q courts publicity - you live by it and you die by it - figuratively speaking of course.
I like 'characters' but some people try just to hard to be one......

EESL sorry to see you are feeling so insecure about your own contribution, and lack of "character". Clearly not shy of public exposure yourself, having made 1,353 (negative) posts on PPRUNE alone, but hiding your real name of course!

[311kph]

Originally Posted by G-SASSY
You and very few others seem to suggest that Q should have been able to control the aircraft more, and "missed the opportunity" to inflate the floats in that 5.5 seconds. From the interview and videos it seems clear that Q had a hell of a battle controlling (you say not controlling) the aircraft just to avoid hitting the ship, which was a clear priority.


Where's that other video?!

[G-SASY]

Where's that other video?!

Try watching on full screen, frame by frame. Cover explodes into pieces at about 00:09.5s and Heli impacts water at about 00:15s. There is another video somewhere that is clearer but the heli picks up and turns out of frame immediately after impacting the cover.

Bergen helicopter crash: Three Britons injured - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39895317)

Norwegian investigator said they had seen footage from the ship's helideck camera but I have not been able to find this online.

www.aibn.no/Aviation/Investigations/17-378

There are two more rather poor videos on the Sun page www.thesun.co.uk/news/3540283/norway-bergen-helicopter-crash-land-superyacht-three-injured/

[nigelh]

Sasy ... I completely agree . I do think there was a little bit of control from Q,s efforts but I don't think it made much difference . He was pretty much a passenger , but don't forget his main move to safety ( away from the ship ) was what saved them . If he had just lifted they would have landed back on deck .
EESL ... Don't know who you are and don't care . You are self righteous and decidedly chippy which makes me think you are probably not as successful as Q and definitely not as much fun !!
Ps . Actually the helicopter world needs MORE people who are as passionate about flying like Q , but possibly we don't need many more as adventurous !

[EESDL]

Well that's me told - maybe time for that straw poll?
For those of you who think Q walks on water, ask yourself why he needed an immersion suit rather than just some waterproof shoes?
Off back to my box.

[Sir Niall Dementia]

EESDL;

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

SND

[nohold]

I heard Q talking to Northolt this afternoon in R44 G-HAGL

[nigelh]

Nobody implied he " walked on water " and you guys are just showing what chippy sad old blokes you really are !!!!!! ( Try getting out more ...)

[JBL99]

Such a shame. What could be a really interesting learning experience for many of us has become a mud slinging match for so many big egos!

Not going to bother to read anymore on here, it's become vindictive.

Very sad this is the way Ppruner's behave.

[Fareastdriver]

There are so many people on here who tell everybody how it should have been done.



Until it happens to them.

[puntosaurus]

I think what people are objecting to here, is the rather obvious attempt to get a particular narrative out there by Q, then parroted and embellished by his rather fawning supporters on this forum.

All sorts of interpretations can be put on the evidence presented in these videos, and even the least favourable ones I can think of are hardly damaging to Q. His quick thinking post crash doesn't seem to be in debate so credit to him for that.

Q is who he is, and he works quite hard at being that way. Some people love him, some people hate him. But the obvious attempt to 'manage the news' when IMHO it's actually not really required in this case does grate a little.

[jeepys]

Punto,
I think you hit the nail on the head there.
Smith is not known to half if not two thirds of the industry. It's only the Robinson and light market that has heard of him so when the news speaks of this highly regarded world famous heli pilot most rotary pilots are saying 'who'.
There are hundreds of extremely well accomplished pilots out there (just in the U.K) that have bundles of experience across all sorts of theatres far more dangerous and taxing than what Smith has done but we don't know of many as they choose to not shout about it and take it all in their stride.

[[email protected]]

Punto and jeepys :ok::ok:

[oldbeefer]

punto, jeepies and crab :ok::ok:

[nigelh]

You guys and your 👏👏 !!!
I have no real connection with Q and accept he is a marmite character and very different to a lot of you on here who just flew, or fly , as a job. It's just funny that it's always the same old guard who come out from under their rocks to criticise and pour their vitriol on another pilot ... One of the draw backs of being anonymous I guess ,but we all imagine a bitter old ex pilot who hasn't flown for years who is behind the monicker!!
Ps ... Before you say anything I may be pretty old ... But I am still flying most days and I'm definitely not jealous or bitter !!

[[email protected]]

Oh dear, you will upset his fan club with that one:ok:

[CaptainSAC]

Mmmm... Well if he was trying to land a commercial helicopter on a private or commercial yachts uncertified heli deck then no wonder he ran away...! We are going through some changes in yachting at the moment and are trying to get rid of these so called "Touch & Go" helipads. They are very rarely set up with the correct rotor clearances, and fire fighting kit, or are actually strong enough to take the crash of a large helicopter. The MCAGA have issued new instructions for the operations of helos on yachts under the LY3 code and this sets out how we want the operations and construction of these pads to be in the future. We still cannot though legislate against Private yachts with Privately registered helicopters doing what they want...! The only real people that can do that are the insurance companies who can stop them by insisting they comply with the new regulations. Glad they all survived though.

[BluSdUp]

Hedski
In the unlikely event I should decide to have a press conference in the Kingdom of Norway,what law would I break?

General observation!

I have no idea who this chap is , but I admire his very quick switch to rescue diver.
Not shure if I could do the same thing. Aim never to find out.

As fare as the time and place, perfect.
Some basic good instinct and pure luck. Quit a performance, good to see a happy ending after last years event.

A good landing is now defined as : PIC attends the press conference!

A great landing is now defined as : No press conference, and aircraft can be used again.

Happy Landings

[Frying Pan]

I'd like to think in many threads that occupy PPrune, we banter and we learn. Other people make mistakes, so we don't we don't have to, is often quoted.

However, all I've learned from this is, don't be Q.

Yet, he was in the enviable position of landing a squirrel aboard a yacht worth more than an African nation. Like most accidents, they happen close to home or approach, be it approaching a ship, oil rig, or even Battersea

If it wasn't foggy, or if it wasn't shi$ty or if that obstacle was in the in the FMS and if the fuel filter cover stayed on etc, this thread like others wouldn't have started.

We have an accident, but 3 survivors. What SOPs will be drawn from this? Only time will time. It is the F1 circus in Monaco this weekend, so I imagine there will be more yachts and helicopters in action and more deckhands and captains checking their liability for any possible mishaps. Let's hope not.

Cheers FP.

[Hedski]

BluSdUp I did say potentially. It's not a certainty. It but I have worked in Norway, laws are very. Try different there when it comes to accidents/incidents.

As for SASY's comment maybe you should read my post which you quoted again. I think you have missed the point or points.
Crab, I knew what I was letting myself in for and as predicted....

[[email protected]]

G-SASY - if you want that then why don't you start with yours and then maybe Q's pprune handle?

[Lonewolf_50]

A good landing is now defined as : PIC attends the press conference!

A great landing is now defined as : No press conference, and aircraft can be used again. May you all have many great landings. :D


It is gratifying to see, despite some hard words back and forth, that the infamous pilot sense of humor remains alive and well. Goodonya, BluSdUp! :ok:

[whoknows idont]

Oooh, this turned into quite an entertaining thread! Bit difficult to pick sides though with good points being made left and right! :)
Carry on please, popcorn is in the making.

Edit: Man, I broke the damn thread again. Why does this keep happening!

[BluSdUp]

According to Bergens Tidende, SS Bacarella left Bergen this morning after arriving April 29.
We assume they found a tarp that fit and some rope to tie it down with.
One of the locals suggested they renamed the Boat: SK Bacarella.
The SK short for Squirrel Killer? This was rejected!

Bon Voyage

[G-SASY]

G-SASY - if you want that then why don't you start with yours and then maybe Q's pprune handle?

Hi Crab my handle G-SASY is pretty transparent, if you know to visit G-INFO. As for Q, I have no idea if he reads PPRUNE or if he has a handle.

[Nige321]

Well I typed G-SASY into Google and got this...:8


https://i.ytimg.com/vi/GfuSOVTzsGI/hqdefault.jpg

:=

[[email protected]]

G-SASY - are you a relative or is that just coincidence?

And I do, he does and I suspect you know it:)

[G-SASY]

G-SASY - are you a relative or is that just coincidence?

And I do, he does and I suspect you know it:)

Crab, No I am not related. Mine is actually a very popular surname...

.... the photo Nige321 found is not a terribly good likeness.:}

[Lonewolf_50]

.... the photo Nige321 found is not a terribly good likeness.:} I like her likeness, and forgive you for not being she. :8

[[email protected]]

Seems a certain someone has taken to using legal threat to have posts he doesn't like removed - shame on you:=:=

[BluSdUp]

According to NRK.NO :
David Tang , the lucky survivor of the heli crash in Byfjorden was in good shape and held a big diner for his Norwegian rescuers yesterday.
He said he did not remember much and wanted to thank them and hear the story firsthand.
The local RedningsSkøyta ( rescue cutter) was just 2 to 3 minutes away that day. A good thing ,as mr Tang arrived at Norways best hospital, Haukeland very quickly. But , he had no sign of life and several doctors was shure he was a goner.His heart had stopped for at least 25 minutes.

Mind you he was a fighter and made it.
Still a bit soar from the broken ribs his rescuers caused in doing CPR that dramatic evening.
And he was saving his voice from the reporters to talk with the crew.

These brave men in the small Cutters that I have always admired as a kid, had a swell dinner on SS Bacarella.
Mighty fine of Mr David Tang
Cpt B

[EESDL]

That's fantastic news - did not realise he was in such a poor way.
hangovers all around I hope !

[exlatccatsa]

https://www.aibn.no/Aviation/Published-reports/2019-01-eng

[212man]

https://www.aibn.no/Aviation/Published-reports/2019-01-eng
Amateurism personified!

[nigelh]

I suppose this would not have happened if you were flying ??!! I imagine you are talking about the boat crew ...in which case you should make that clear .

[Sumpor Stylee]

No he’s probably talking about the pilot attempting to land on a boat in a type he’s only just got qual’d on and also hovering over the deck for 15 seconds while something was coming loose....

[double_barrel]

Was just talking about helicopter operations with a friend who is a superyacht skipper. He tells me that to land a chopper on a yacht there needs to be crew member with ATC qualification, also a fire response team in suits and respirators and a tender in the water every time a chopper lands.

Is there some difference in definitions here - a full helipad as opposed to a less regulated touch and go pad with different levels of regulation ?

[212man]

I suppose this would not have happened if you were flying ??!! I imagine you are talking about the boat crew ...in which case you should make that clear .

No, you are right - having re-read the report I can see that it shows a very professional operation after all. 'My bad' as they say these days.....

The helicopter landed at Bergen Airport for refuelling. Here all three on board took off their survival suits and life jackets. From Bergen airport, the helicopter headed directly to M/Y Bacarella. The yacht was ordered by the port authority to leave the quay to receive the helicopter. The pilot in the right seat flew the helicopter from Bergen airport. The helicopter took off at

While both persons in the front seats were buckled up, the passenger in the aft seat was not. Recording from the Appareo 1000 shows that the passenger is thrown forward over the pedestal and the right hand collective.

The pilot in the right front seat had a Private Pilot’s License for helicopters (PPL(H)) and type ratings on Robinson R44 and Robinson R66 helicopters. He had also completed type training and a skill test on the AS 350 B3 helicopter. The skill test was completed the day before the accident. The UK CAA had yet to issue the licence. His total experience on helicopters was 290.6 flight hours. Of these, 16.4 flight hours were on AS 350 B3.

The aft seat was equipped with three-point seat belts, but the passenger was not using one. He was busy filming the approach on his mobile phone. As the fuel bowser’s tarpaulin hit the main rotor, the helicopter started to vibrate excessively. Just before the helicopter hit the water, he was thrown sideways, then forward and over the pedestal and the right hand collective stick. There were multiple items of unsecured luggage in the cabin. In addition, there were multiple electronic devices with unsecured charging cables connected to power outlets.

The commander, who also had flight instructor privileges allowed a pilot with little experience on the helicopter type fly the helicopter in over the yacht's helideck with the intention to land from the right hand seat

The yacht's helideck was marginally sized, and the helicopter's tailboom would have to stick out aft of the helideck when it had landed. This required precise manoeuvring of the helicopter. In addition, due to the aerodynamic conditions (ground effect) created by the design and size of the helideck, the helicopter behaved differently than it would when landing on a larger landing surface. These circumstances, combined with the flying pilot’s low experience on the AS 350 B3, resulted in a low hover over the helideck that lasted for approximately 15 seconds

[BluSdUp]

Good call from the Harbor Master ( Havne Sjefen i Bergen) to ordering them to sail clear of the dock before allowing landing.
It may have saved them and any spectators!?
After Customs and Imigration cleared at Flesland,they refueled and took of survival suits AND life-jackets , Brilliant!
Letting a Private pilot with grand total of 290,6 hrs land with a new type rating ( not yet issued) with 16,4hrs on type, for the first time on a ship! Well,,,, Lets quote AIBN: Insufficient risk assessment by the Commander!

Ships Captain not securing tarp, setting out tender boat and no firefighting equipment ready as per the Manual ( Mind you as a private ship he did not have to, but the manual existed )

All well that ends well.
Lesson learned I suppose.
Happy Hover ,Chaps
Regards
Cpt B

[BluSdUp]

Ah, Forgot
Rear seat Pax not using seat belt, and ended up close to the flight controls after control was lost , mind you.

[EESDL]

I guess that's the problem with aviation - you can go about your business and leisure thinking that you are The Bee's Knees, until you have an accident and the independent investigation appears to show otherwise.....

[Sumpor Stylee]

Bees knees in many lackeys eyes while you have your little posse of sheep behind you. Yet another accident for the PIC fo be involved in. How many lives? How many errors? Still doing daily airshows at Denham I hear, a beacon of responsible flying to the last. No ego here.

[John R81]

Sun Vessel Global Limited (Appellant) v (1) HQ Aviation Limited, (2) Great Lakes Insurance (UK) SE (Respondents) Judgment given on 9 January 2023

Up until the trial, Sun Vessel Global argued negligence on the part of HQ Aviation leading to the accident. This position was conceded before trial and SVG admitted liability for damages and costs but claimed contributory negligence on the part of HQA. The trial judge rejected the claim of contributory negligence and awarded damages to HQA.

The Appeal Court case (Jan 2023) actually concerned the rate of interest applied to the award and whether costs of a UK Aviation Specialist who was not permitted to appear before the BVI Court were admissible.