When will Emirates financial results be announced?

[hawaii243]

Hello Folks!

As the title says, is it late now for the announcement? usually the announcement is made within the first week of May. some rumors say the announcement will be at the beginning of June.

[A320_jockey]

Last year annual results were presented on May 10th...

[felixthecat]

My money is on a 15:30 email on Thursday ;)

[QNHbox]

My money is on a 15:30 email on Thursday ;)

+1 on that!

[PositiveRate876]

Thursday, June 8th.


The embarrassingly modest profit announcement will be obliterated by the UK election, thus no face lost.

[Monarch Man]

15 minutes after the first of the 82nd airborne paradrop into Pyongyang..:E

[Craggenmore]

Modest profit of 2.5 billion instead of 7.7 billion..?

Any company in the world would love to have a profit anywhere near EK's. Let's get real for a minute.

If Willy Walsh turned a 2.5 bill profit, he'd get to be The Queen's personal shoe shiner for life..

[sluggums]

Who cares? Whatever the number, it'll be smoke and mirrors. Again...

[Craggenmore]

IAG is 2 airlines.

Well, 4 if you include BMI and BMED

[waffler]

IAG is 6 airlines
British Airways
Iberia
Aer Lingus
Veuling
Open Skies
Level

[shakealeg]

And the emirates group is this according to their www.

the Emirates Group as an immense organisation, spanning a portfolio of more than 50 brands and employing over 65,000 people

[Abagnale]

Higher education should become compulsory for professional pilots. Reading all this drivel you posted here, makes me feel sick. Let's be honest, even a BA in Literature can interpret an income statement or a balance sheet. It took you guys 3 posts to figure out how many airlines are members of IAG, just use google, for God's sake.

[cerbus]

I believe what is being alluded to in the figures is the company can declare any profit it wants to as the numbers are not audited and the standard practice of accounting rules do not apply with EK and its declaration of financial results.

[OBOGS]

Emirates accounts actually are audited (traditionally by PwC).

I always thought that the somewhat extraordinary (to the region and ownership structure) transparency is driven by access to the financial markets for funding (corporate bonds etc.).

The fact that large corporations have a lot of maneuver space for declaring a loss or a profit (if they are solid enough) remains a fact anywhere.

Not a financial expert by far... my degree from elsewhere as well.

[Joker11]

February 30

[north flyer]

PWC is world respected in audit, and I don't want to hear about the Oscars, that was a one off, we all have done it.

As OBOGS said, Corps, especially in this part of the world have a lot of "maneuvering" space. At Emirates it is the PAYMENT TO OWNER, which comes from the profit, not after.

And that "gentlemen" is where we as Emirates pilots get screwed out of our profit share.

The financial "Boys" love this kind of stuff, use the payment to owner as a cost, screw the employees out of profit share, they don't f---king care.

That's transparency to them, the kind that keeps the funding going.

[Joker11]

E-mail just in.

[kennedy]

Interesting line in the email:

We’ve made some tough decisions. Until we’re on a stronger footing, we’ve frozen promotions, but will continue to fill and recruit essential roles. Expect firmer controls on salaries and benefits as we look to steady our payroll costs."

I wonder if FO's are considered "essential staff"

🙈😱

[Hansol]

And the number is?

[Ngenfire]

Or

Half the amount Ryanair made and a quarter of the figure IAG achieved.

Interesting times

[Freehills]

Down 82.5%. Presume the beatings will have to intensify!

[CaptainChipotle]

Down 82.5%. Presume the beatings will have to intensify!

Hundreds will complain, nobody will walk away from the big shiny jets AND THEY KNOW IT.

This is proof. #helloRyanAir

[Kamelchaser]

Who'd have thought you could still pull a profit flying A380s around with 100 pax? There's magic in them there figures.

[aeropix]

Meanwhile... DNATA side posts record breaking bunker busting profit "the highest in 58 years"... I'm sure the numbers all add up somehow...

[Freehills]

Meanwhile... DNATA side posts record breaking bunker busting profit "the highest in 58 years"... I'm sure the numbers all add up somehow...

Lesson learnt - build a business on cheap, largely south asian, labour.

[DuneMentat]

Except that 2/3 of dnatas business is outside of the UAE

[777-200LR]

The Emirates Shop in The Dubai Mall might be bringing the profits down

[trimotor]

There were a few choice little nuggets in the email - all to do with freezes on promotions, pay increases, and an open statement about reductions in benefits. Brilliant.

[fatbus]

Axe half the VPs would be a good start

[Yorkshire_Pudding]

Airline profit 1.3bn Dnata 1.2bn

[Jetkopite]

Axe half the VPs would be a good start

Are those the ones who are smiling today wondering what to do with their profit share whilst the ones that really made the money get nothing??:mad::mad::mad:

[keepitrealok]

How pathetic.

When times are good they will stand in the auditorium and bask in the clapping of the rent-an-audience, lapping up the sycophantic adulation of the Costa Brigade.

But when they aren't, they refuse to present the results to the staff in person, and instead fire off an email to all releasing the figures. What leadership. Not. Absolutely spineless.

That's what's scary - refusal to take responsibility for the myriad of errors, and lead to this year's poor performance. And now - the signalling of reducing terms and conditions to those who work hardest.

[jack schidt]

Comparable to sending a text or email about how bad your relationship is going? It would be more prudent to have a face to face announcement when times are tough rather than stand there and soak up the praise when times are good. Certainly not good leadership or communication sorry to say.

J

[donpizmeov]

The freeze on promotion and pay has been happening for most of the past year throughout the company. Some departments have seen demotion of the workers from grade 8 to grade 7 while still doing exactly the same job. Managers don't seem to have been handled the same way, surprising hey?
Total cop out sending an email.

[drop kick]

An airline that never fails to disappoint.

I love the word "Resilience" Ive come to learn with bitter experience that its Dubai speak for someone about to stick the bat up your arse....

One of the major reasons that the deeply unrealistic profit target was not achieved was due to mismanagement of the airline and poor managerial choices, we know there is managerial ineptitude otherwise why employ a senior management consultant to fix it.
Their mistake.... our loss.

[Schnowzer]

Need the succession plan and new strategy laid out asap. Until then nothing will happen.

[Joker11]

This is all a kick in the groin. It just not worth it being here. Next year I am out.

[LivingINtheDream]

Seat capacity rose by 10% and operating costs increased by 8%....yeah that sounds pretty logical, more planes will do just that. What a great way to justify cost cutting.

What a blessing to have such a 'capable' management team to turn a profit even in the face of such global financial turmoil, I only wish they could make us work harder so our productivity increases.

Hello new TC's! Hello 3* hotels! Hello room sharing (CC only hopefully). This is all up CM's alley, he's more than qualified.

[notapilot15]

Look at the positives numbers

Workforce went up by 7.5%. (added just net 7 planes)
Break-even load factor went up to 64.5 from 60%

Wait a minute, those numbers are not supposed to go up.

[JAYTO]

".....stiff competition and over-capacity that hurt our loads and yields."

said the boss of the only airline with 142 A380 ordered.

If only all those other airlines did not order any aircraft we would be just fine.

[777-200LR]

Their mistake.... our loss.

Drop kick, I disagree with your statement; it's their mistake and it's their loss. If you were a UAE National, with your pride and own airline to lose, I'd agree. The way I see it, I'm much rather be in my position with the ability to leave at anytime then to be anyone of the sleepless top floor boys.

[drop kick]

True to a degree 777, trouble is I have invested in this place, their decisions have cost me. I do though have the ability to leave and relocate, and I will. We have all lost money because of their financial ineptitude.
A bonus is what we brought into, 3 % per year was what we contractually agreed to, descent villas and schooling / health care was what we brought into. Trouble is.. in these parts a reduction in profits... not a loss means we take up the slack. Trust me we loose too.

[notapilot15]

Sorry to ask the question, but what happened to CM's plans to cut the fluff. How did Emirates Airline end up with 4000 more employees?

[5star]

+1 on the last question...
Its gone extremely quiet regarding the Terminator.
It more and more looks like no one has the bxlls to admit that he packed a long time ago...

blue (open) skies now gone gents...a big storm is brewing. And who will steer this ship...
Sir MF, we miss u!

[DCS99]

"None of this is of our own making."
"None of these (problems) are of our own volition."

ICE channel 1500 Part 10 and then the Dubai Business Breakfast last week.
It continued:

"Very difficult year...there's lots of political instability on the planet today, financial systems stress and political vacuums"

And there you have it.
Close the door and get back to the job at hand.

[Machrihanish]

"Very difficult year...there's lots of political instability on the planet today, financial systems stress and political vacuums"
This planet, agreed. But take Mars. I'd not let 'em off the grill that quickly...

[exekcabincrew]

Have you noticed EK management NEVER takes responsibility for anything? Its always someone else fault. Its the economy, the terrorism, Trump, you name it. Those paid to run the airline are never guilty of anything.
I love the reasons Ek management posts to justify their complete incompetence! Political vacuum? Tell me when there is no political vacuum? Financial distress? It's always present, the job of the management is to make a smooth sale through the distress, its their job to prevent it. Those people live in a parallel reality...

[Talparc]

sorry guys but the party is finally over!

[The Outlaw]

I think that the year end numbers are indicative of the real personalities of the people we work for. More than ever it should be clear to all that you are only here to work, not make a life. Don't forget that they don't want you here after they are done with you. More and more its getting difficult, almost impossible to do practically anything without police letters, NOC's, finger prints, salary certificates indicating you make over 30,000 per month and god knows what else, they just don't want outsiders mixing into their domains.

Over the past 10 years or so there has been a move to put nationals into the work place and move the expats out. There are folks in all walks of life who are being replaced daily by locals and thats just how its done here. Yes, we all know it would'nt fly in the UK or USA but thats the way it is.

To those who have "invested" either by buying a house or invested heavily in other ways I can only say "caveat emptor". It has always been a highly risky move to purchase big ticket items in a country where you do not have the right to hold the passport and your lifestyle depends on the results of your next PPC/Medical/Landing/handling of the IO passenger etc. Even the arabs buy property in the UK, Europe, Canada, USA etc. but not here...why?

It used to be different 15 years ago, its not the same today.

Which leads me to the company of today. We still get people who join based on the spin the recruiters are forced to spout. I recently worked with a fellow who simply did not believe what was written in this forum and forged ahead anyway, he did admit that he felt imprisoned by the 5 year bond...I simply stated "you were warned" and left it at that!

The glory days are gone. It's been said 1000's of times here. It is not the place to lay down roots roots any longer (I wouldn't even buy a new car here...forget property).

So when the results are bad as they are now, its difficult for me to listen to those who blame management for how this downward trend is affecting them. You'd have known this was going to happen sometime and selling a house in the Middle East in unstable times can be a challenge. Certainly the management could have taken a different approach in the growth of the company and the handling of its staff...but they haven't nor will they.

Remember, they really don't want you here anyway.

[Tasmanian]

[QUOTE=The Outlaw;9768287]I think that the year end numbers are indicative of the real personalities of the people we work for. More than ever it should be clear to all that you are only here to work, not make a life. Don't forget that they don't want you here after they are done with you. More and more its getting difficult, almost impossible to do practically anything without police letters, NOC's, finger prints, salary certificates indicating you make over 30,000 per month and god knows what else, they just don't want outsiders mixing into their domains.

Over the past 10 years or so there has been a move to put nationals into the work place and move the expats out. There are folks in all walks of life who are being replaced daily by locals and thats just how its done here. Yes, we all know it would'nt fly in the UK or USA but thats the way it is.

To those who have "invested" either by buying a house or invested heavily in other ways I can only say "caveat emptor". It has always been a highly risky move to purchase big ticket items in a country where you do not have the right to hold the passport and your lifestyle depends on the results of your next PPC/Medical/Landing/handling of the IO passenger etc. Even the arabs buy property in the UK, Europe, Canada, USA etc. but not here...why?

It used to be different 15 years ago, its not the same today.

Which leads me to the company of today. We still get people who join based on the spin the recruiters are forced to spout. I recently worked with a fellow who simply did not believe what was written in this forum and forged ahead anyway, he did admit that he felt imprisoned by the 5 year bond...I simply stated "you were warned" and left it at that!

The glory days are gone. It's been said 1000's of times here. It is not the place to lay down roots roots any longer (I wouldn't even buy a new car here...forget property).

So when the results are bad as they are now, its difficult for me to listen to those who blame management for how this downward trend is affecting them. You'd have known this was going to happen sometime and selling a house in the Middle East in unstable times can be a challenge. Certainly the management could have taken a different approach in the growth of the company and the handling of its staff...but they haven't nor will they.

Remember, they really don't want you here anyway.[/QUOTE

Super nice post!

[The Outlaw]

Yep...the truth can be a bitch sometimes.

[flareflyer]

Drop kick, I disagree with your statement; it's their mistake and it's their loss. If you were a UAE National, with your pride and own airline to lose, I'd agree. The way I see it, I'm much rather be in my position with the ability to leave at anytime then to be anyone of the sleepless top floor boys.


Agree 100000%%%
We are guests, no feelings at all.
We can go somewhere else......they cant.......

[MVD]

IATA statistics from a recent airline industry report. 2015 & 2016 were the MOST profitable years EVER for airlines worldwide. It is estimated that 2017 will fall between the two.....so we are currently experiencing the 3 most profitable years ever for airlines!! For the airlines with falling profits or worse it must be asked, where have the management gone wrong???

[harry the cod]

Outlaw

There is some sense in that post but you view on housing is one side of the coin. Property markets throughout the World are subject to volatility at some point, history proves that. Dubai is still relatively new into this market and will suffer the same gains and loses but perhaps more in the extreme. Locals' buy abroad because they can and because they live there during the summer. They also buy there for the same reason we buy here, spreading their investment portfolio and risk. Sure it's a bigger risk for us, we will not be afforded the same legal fairness here that they would expect in the Western World if things go wrong. Nobody is naive enough to believe otherwise. Rules and laws here are definitely not equal amongst men.

However, there have been many pilots within EK who did very well buying into this market 15 years ago. Some sold when their 'investment' grew considerably, some now live in those unencumbered houses enjoying an additional 190,000 a year for free. I think they would be laughing at your post. Buying does require commitment and if you aren't looking at this gig long term, don't do it. This is for those that would be looking to make Dubai a longer term prospect.

Regardless of which side of the fence you sit on, who cares? You make a decision and you live by it. Only on the day you hang up those goggles for good will you be able to reflect whether your decision was the right one or not.

[fliion]

IATA statistics from a recent airline industry report. 2015 & 2016 were the MOST profitable years EVER for airlines worldwide. It is estimated that 2017 will fall between the two.....so we are currently experiencing the 3 most profitable years ever for airlines!! For the airlines with falling profits or worse it must be asked, where have the management gone wrong???

Eh - We had the most profitable year ever in last years results.

Oil companies in the M/East account for 29% of the regions GDP. Where oil goes - the region goes, and with that EK in particular, add in our wrong sized fleet and increasing hub by pass & emergence of LHLC

The Economist says it better.

http://www.economist.com/news/business/21721956-aviations-most-successful-business-model-under-strain-super-connector-airlines-face

[Airbuspilot72]

If EK don't want to give bonus to employees who worked hard, its alright but at least don't make excuses and forge the account books. Forging account books is a very comman practice here since there is no regulatory authority.
Why should we work hard for next financial year when the hard work does not get rewarded

[wizard1]

It's very hard to see what is going to turn around the inexorable slipping slope. In no particular order
Retail - suffering from sky high rents, fees and restrictions, and declining demand
Hospitality - overcapacity, high dollar denominated prices, reduced regional and European demand
Real Estate - ridiculous over supply, diminishing demand as the regions money runs out. This one could fall off a cliff tomorrow, and it is already starting.Get out right now before that piece of poured concrete is worth nothing.
Lastly the airline. The golden goose has stopped laying and again it's hard to see how it can again. Vast regional overcapacity poor procurement decisions. Etc etc you've heard it all.
Underlying it all is the fact that the price of oil is set below $50 for ever thanks to fracking. The Texas Peruvian field alone has huge huge recoverable reserves to compare with the KSA's somewhat sketchy proven reserves. And the break even price is going down all the time. Ya think Expo is going to turn this around? Laughable. I'll be surprised if they even hold it they are so starved of cash. The AUH government has stopped paying its contractors and compared to Dubai they stashed a bit of cash.
Start working on re validating an EASA or FAA license now. Lots of jobs but it takes time. Be prepared. It will be easier if you are.

[harry the cod]

....and only another 12 days before the Earth melts. We're all doomed I tell ya....doomed!

[wizard1]

LOL!

I do think my forecast is correct mind. Time will tell.

[atakacs]

As a relatively regular (about one sector / month over past 5y) EK business flyer I can report a significant price increase in all business fares (at least for the destination I follow, mostly Asia and Africa). Very noticeable

[pumpkin]

So any guesses when we are going to get the next Thursday-at-closing-time e-mail that will tell us what they are doing with the accommodation and education allowances ?

[halas]

Harry,

There were also many who were burned by the real estate melt down. Some had to run away from over exposure.

It was not all beer and skittles in 2009

halas

[harry the cod]

Absolutely there were, pilots et al.

While some were both greedy and naive in equal measure, buying multiple properties with cheques their accounts couldn't cash, there were a few who invested in projects cancelled or delayed. Nakheel's Palm Jebel Ali development is a case in point. Lured by the promise of government backing and financial support, the corrupt and heavily mismanaged Company turned it's back on those who'd invested in it's master project. Without cancellations and with the project still in 'discussion', the developer can delay indefinitely further work despite taking 30-50% from those already invested in that project. They pocket that money as well as write off debt from contractors and sub contractors. Then, after restructuring and re financing, Nakheel can announce record profits and continue to take further monies from investors in other projects. Finished properties are built to the lowest of standards with sub standard fittings and finishing. Their service fees are a joke, as are the services they provide for such inflated charges. They often promise greenery and landscaping and either fail to complete as per the glossy brochure or build some other monstrosity to block a premium view. The Palm Jumeriah apartments?

Sadly, there has been little to no success in the recovery of these deposits or from any legal action against Nakheel from the UAE courts.

So yes, I'm fully aware of the lack of integrity and honesty as well as the irresponsible behaviour demonstrated by the shallow and untrustworthy individuals that run these Companies. Caveat Emptor!

Harry

[north flyer]

FFS, calm down guys, they made a profit.

Profit margin for EK was 1.5% and the group 2.6%, not great for "some" people, but not bad for a mature airline.

Break even load factor was 64.5%, in the real world that is great, go look at what other mature airlines need.

Employee cost at 14%, at most mature airlines it twice that.

As far as I can tell, they are still trying to hire pilots, and that should matter to us. Sometime you have to read between the lines, and from what I read, a lot of what they are saying is not directed to the pilots, but to the other "employees"

[InnocentBystander]

FFS, calm down guys, they made a profit.

Profit margin for EK was 1.5% and the group 2.6%, not great for "some" people, but not bad for a mature airline.

Break even load factor was 64.5%, in the real world that is great, go look at what other mature airlines need.

Employee cost at 14%, at most mature airlines it twice that.

Remember, that

1) The so called "audit" does not follow any international accepted auditing standards like EBITDA. PwC is auditing whatever opaque internal standard EK management is putting forward. They can cook the books and show a "profit" and PwC will happily audit that; for a fee of course. For all we know they could've lost hundreds of millions of dollars. We'll never find out.

2) You (The employee) are a means to an end, not the end.

[notapilot15]

They pick big numbers and highlight them.

The published 64.5% break even load factor is for cargo, with a overall load factor of 65%. 0.5% away from making loss on cargo. Also the cargo BELF jumped 4.1% points from last years 60.4% Bad news. See page 95.

They didn't publish BELF for passenger seats.

Employee cost is 15.6% total operational cost.
Revenue per employee is the lowest in the decade, not because employees are not working hard, because they keep hiring.

[Kobus Dune]

...I wouldn't even buy a new car here...forget property....
So would I.

Ya think Expo is going to turn this around? Laughable. I'll be surprised if they even hold it they are so starved of cash..
Yes, indeed.

[Krone]

EK has become so like CX its not funny . In fact, the comments on here so mirror those on fragrant harbour !
At least EK made a profit .

Its so ironic that CX blame , Not their 8.5 billion hk$ fuel hedging blunder, but competition from the middle east carriers eating their market share.

Aviation Managers are a breed to themselves. Im sure somehow , someway, they have all gotten together and agreed not to ever, ever raise global pilot salaries , and to continue to lower the COS bar lower each year. A bit like the banks and Libor rates. There has to be something in it !

[BigGeordie]

They are a breed to themselves alright. I think the main thing they have in common is that nothing is ever their fault. Global economics, oil prices (up or down!), Trump, anything but them.

[777-200LR]

Word from across the river in Doha is they are about to announce a record profit. They must not be affected by the strong Dollar, Brexit, Trump, isis, Europe, fuel, employee productivity... ... ... :{

[notapilot15]

Little more clarity(or confusion) on the situation

Cargo load factor break even 64.5 actual 65
Passenger seat factor break even 75?? actual 75
Lease payments up by 30%

Overall ME3 March '17 load factor was 73% per The Economist.

[Peter Chube]

Don't panic, we can now get the new suitcases (for 240aed each).

[donpizmeov]

No Peter. If you are due a new suitcase you are issued one for free. If you feel the need to get a new one when not due, you buy one. No different to now. There are serious issues here. Don't dilute them with dribble.

[Peter Chube]

Ok, I grant you, pretty minor in the grand scheme. However, I just read the FAQ, and there is no longer a standard 4 year replacement interval. You only get the new one if current one is beyond repair. Otherwise you pay.

Think my roster has wound me up too much...

[donpizmeov]

Red wine helps.

[The Outlaw]

Don't panic, we can now get the new suitcases (for 240aed each).

C'mon Don, that was pretty funny. You can't lose your sense of humour esp. when you factor where we work.

[YYZ]

Although not really caring that much, if you use the new uniform App, it automatically tells you when you're due a new item... including the 3 year issue of the case. Nothing has changed.

[White Knight]

Word from across the river in Doha is they are about to announce a record profit.

Any profit is a 'record profit' when the company has only ever run at a subsidised loss for so long!:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Peter Chube]

Although not really caring that much, if you use the new uniform App, it automatically tells you when you're due a new item... including the 3 year issue of the case. Nothing has changed.

The (well buried) FAQs state otherwise. No more replacement interval. Only if beyond repair.

[Hansol]

Not sure what your point is there. FR is a more profitable sustainable business.
EK has a tiny home market shared with AD and a business model based on hubbing pax via Dubai.
New generation aircraft and low oil prices are bound to put pressure on all those eggs in one basket.