EK or QR?!? [Archive] - PPRuNe Forums

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TheVanguard

26th Mar 2017, 17:42

donpizmeov

26th Mar 2017, 19:10

Its also much shinier.

Lets hope we finally hear some honest and useful advice.

flareflyer

26th Mar 2017, 19:25

:ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

lfbb

26th Mar 2017, 20:46

Can't talk for EK but if you join QR on 320 your personal life will be a living hell. Unbearable roster and Qatar is no place for single guys, not being formally married and having a relationship in this country feels like committing a crime (and sometimes it actually is)... I tell my friends to avoid 320 at all costs, 70% of the flights will be night turn arounds to India or Pakistan, 4 nights in a row not uncommon and consistently flying 90 hours on a narrow body every month is no joke. If your only option at QR is the 320 I'd put it down and look for a better place. If they offer you a wide body position I'd consider QR but keeping in mind what I mentioned before about being single in Qatar. Good luck.

Cloud Bunny

27th Mar 2017, 04:23

Out of curiosity, what experience have you accrued to be offered entrance onto the 380 at EK?

Breathing and has a pulse pretty much guarantees you entry into EK these days.

Alloy

27th Mar 2017, 04:31

A few years ago I was in a similar position but DEC for QR 320 and DEC for EK 330. One of the best decisions I ever made was to pass on both!

thatwasclose

27th Mar 2017, 06:20

Take the EK 380 .
Dubai much more fun and that 320 roster will be much worse . EK ain't peaches and cream and if wide body go to Qatar but of the two, that would be my pick .

Modesh

27th Mar 2017, 07:21

The V,
I don't believe either are a long term choice.
So at your age I'd have the mind set of where could I have the most fun for 5 years. (Bond)
The answer would be EK 380. Fly LH have a fun time and have an exit plan. You should concentrate on where you want to live and apply to the quality airlines (If any) there. Stay at EK until you get the job offer but as soon as you do, leave. (Just pay the bond if you have to)
You won't get a 380 command until 35 ( new age restrictions) so you won't get hooked by the i'm only a year away from upgrade so I'll stay.
Sadly Middle eastern airlines are no longer a long term prospect imho.
M

bananaman2

27th Mar 2017, 07:41

I am aware that there is a lot of information (not all so positive) about EK out here. But I'm looking for some honest and useful advice.

I have offers from both EK and QR on different buses (380/320). I have to make a decision soon. I would appreciate any advice you can give.

I'm single in my mid 20s. QR seems to be the better company from what I read around here, but EK attracts me because of the long haul flying and the big bus.

Thanks for all your advice in advance!

I backup most of the previous comments.

I chose QR but got widebody and am reasonably happy right now (from a flying, roster, staff travel point of view etc etc).

I'm single also and you'll definitely have more fun and will enjoy living in Dubai much more. The cabin crew in EK are better also.

A couple of other things that i considered with regards to EK though (which may not be a concern for some). You say you're mid20s - while command may not be an immediate concern... they say minimum age for command on 380 is 35 now. So you may be waiting up to 10years. Secondly something that put me off was the 5year bond at EK.

By the way... i had a look around at the last couple of months 320 rosters on the system and 90hours as a general rule is not true... you may fly a bit more initially as a new joiner or if on low hours but other than that no. Stuff about the turnarounds and not having as much time off compared to other fleets is true though.

In your current situation - single mid 20s, my feeling is EK might be a better option for you. You could always ask Qatar if there is any possibility of widebody also, even if it means delaying the start date.

Lots of stuff on previous threads on comparisons between the big 3... check it out.

Digressing slightly... the general feeling of these threads is the Middle East is over and to look elsewhere... home (wherever that is) or a commuting contract for lifestyle and/or more pay.

Anyway you specifically asked about QR vs EK, so hope it helps.

APU_inop

27th Mar 2017, 09:18

It depends on what's important for you. What are your plans and goals.

QR: 320 has quite tough rosters, pay is quite nice but for a young single guy there are more fun places than Doha. You will most probably not get widebody within a year. Everything depends on the demand. Time to command on the 320 is not very long at the moment. Flying widebody for QR though, is pretty nice still.

EK: Dubai is more fun to live in, even if your long-term goal is not flying LH, the hours are always very good to have in the book in the future. Saving money might be harder in EK.

5star

27th Mar 2017, 10:02

another very important thing to include in your decision making: according to an FO, who signed up with EK a couple of months ago: his contract states clearly he has a MAXIMUM of 15 paid sick days per calendar year!!! This is something new they came up with (it's not in my contract.)
For me that would be a clear dealbreaker, let alone all the other reasons not to join if they put you on the Boeing (And that looks like the fleet where new guys are dropped, given all the resignations the last couple of months)....

TwinJock

27th Mar 2017, 11:15

I will just past on this one thanks.....

TheVanguard

27th Mar 2017, 13:48

Thank you to the ones who gave useful advice.

It's highly appreciated!

320330kutscher

27th Mar 2017, 21:15

QR is tough as well is EK .
You will soon forget if you have 165 Peps in the back or 450 .
All you will recall is ,which day ,when im off ...how long !!!!
Your experience is low ..go get your wings and fly 320 then move on with QR widebody adt 3 years ....learn to fly the Baby Bus then get bored in the Chubby Wobbler ...

5star

28th Mar 2017, 06:04

12 years ago it was a no-brainer and the best outfit (by far) in the ME was EK and I would never ever have joined QR.
Now 12 years later it has completely reversed. The best outfit for flightdeck crew in the ME is QR. I hear they treat their FD with respect and rosters are not too bad (if you can get a heavy/super seat). Pay must be pretty similar.

Now if I was looking at the ME and at the start of my career, I would never ever join EK unless I would get a RHS 380.
On that fleet life is still cool because guys get minimum 15 days off a month and so much time to recover. Easy sectors and hardly any night turns or layovers in SE Asia. Upgrading on the 380 will be long away however... From the rumor mill there will be no seats available on that fleet for the foreseeable future (never mind what they tell you during the roadshows, plain lies as many have found out). As we speak guys are transferred (or downgraded) to the 777.

So go a week to Doha and see how life is. Speak with as many people as you can.
Living in the middle east is not for everyone.

Che Xindamail

28th Mar 2017, 07:31

Very good points here. I can't speak for EK, but I have done my time in QR on both the A320 and currently on A330. For sure the flying on A320 is quite demanding with multiple sector days and a fair amount of night flying, but not quite the hell it's rumoured to be. Most pilots, both seats, will do about three years on A320 and then move on, typically to A330. You say that you are mid-20s and I dare guess that you have a few thousand hours logged? If you go widebody ULH at such an early stage in your career you will forever lose the proficiency you have gained up until now. On the other hand go narrowbody short-haul for a few years and you will be an extremely proficient QR Command upgrade candidate in your late 20s or early 30's. Big shiny jets that fly very far are unavoidable in QR if you stay long enough.

QR has developed into a mature and well run organization in the past few years. Your contract is solid and steadily improving, they will not try to screw you on regulations, training has become much more humane than in the old days, we have a good bidding system for flights, 42 days annual leave that must be allocated during the leave year, and you will enjoy the best staff travel system I've seen in any airline.

That said, for sure you will have much more fun in Dubai as a single person. Doha is a bit bland in terms of entertainment, which might be an understatement.

yardman

28th Mar 2017, 21:12

Don't forget that you have to be 35 to get a 380 command at Emirates. I doubt very much that Qatar has a similar policy in place.

fatbus

29th Mar 2017, 07:21

Not in place yet!

checkerboard6

29th Mar 2017, 08:39

I suggest you spend some time in Doha and Dubai. As a 380FO at Ek for a while now I can say its a pretty good gig. Dubai lifestyle is great if you love the outdoors, plenty to do and see. The network options are great and yes 15/16 days off a month. Vanguard do you not accept PMs?

Winged Lion

30th Mar 2017, 20:30

I find my self leaning towards Qatar but I am still not sure. It is mainly because of the upgrades. It's an all A380 fleet now (for Airbus) at Emirates. How can I expect to be upgraded anytime soon? Especially considering the age limit? So I will drop even more down in seniority because older guys than me will have an advantage even if they join the company after I did.

As an A320 pilot though, something like the 330 or 380 seems hard to get on at Qatar. But my goal is to get on longhaul, preferably not the 320..

TheVanguard

31st Mar 2017, 18:18

Thanks guys for all these comments!
checkerboard, I do!

BUSH PILOT

13th Apr 2017, 15:40

Have been following these threads closely for a while, would be keen to hear peoples opinions on QR v the 'unmentionable' airline in the current climate...
Could potentially be choosing between QR 320, or maybe 330 or the other mobs 320 or NTR 777 position.

Coming with >5000 and >2000 A320, particularly interested to hear rough timeframe for upgrade and QOL/rostering at either place. (Would also be bringing the wife and kid as well for what its worth)

The feeling I get reading here and talking to others is that QR probably has the most potential as an airline, although Doha less desirable than Abu Dhabi. Rostering possibly better at QR though? Please correct me if my radars way off or you have any advice though!!

sandsthrudahrglass

13th Apr 2017, 16:00

keep in mind too that although you are offered A380 you may find yourself in a 777 sim on arrival!

Valmont

13th Apr 2017, 19:15

bananaman2

13th Apr 2017, 21:27

Wondering the same as Bush Pilot even though I don't have kids yet, rated on both 320 and 330w. Currently flying the 330.
How does the packages compare ?
I'm leaning towards Abu Dhabi even though the package is substentially less from what I hear.

Comes down to what is important to you at the end of the day.

I did the assessment at the unmentionable in 2015 before going to QR last year. I'm happy with my decision 'overall'.

Things to consider:

At my assessment at the unmentionable, we were told it is unlikely that your full allocation of leave would be awarded (because they simply don't have the capacity to do so). Not sure if this has changed but at QR I just got my full 42days allocated for the year commencing Apr 17 and got everything I wanted including 2weeks at Xmas and in July.

I heard the time to command at the Unmentionable was very long (over 5years, closer to 10). I was told by a mate who's there that this isn't true (at least in his case and others he knew) but what is true is the command failure rate is Very high - majority failing rather than the minority. Obviously you should think positive but something to bear in mind. At QR, people seem to be getting the call at 4years (although slight variations - experience, fleet etc).

At the unmentionable, I would've got 320 - I heard the roster is terrible and the 330 is not much better when you get the fleet transfer/dual rating. I got put on the 330 at QR and am happy with the roster so far... the bidding has worked well so far... when I want destinations I get them and when I bid for days off I get them also. I heard the 777 roster (and presumably 380) at the unmentionable is ok.

Also at QR if you're Type Rated (any fleet) there is no Bond. I seem to recall there was a bond at the unmentionable if you are Type Rated.

Regarding Abu Dhabi, I found it better than Doha but it wasn't 'that great', in fact some pilots I met were commuting in from Dubai.

On my batch at QR 90% of the pilots are family people and Doha works ok for them because their primary concerns are maximizing time off to spend with the family and schools... they're not bothered so much with the nightlife... and if you forget about that, then the Middle East is basically all the same... shopping malls and sand.

Anyway just a few points - you could consider a lot more, (in)stability of the airline, growth, benefits etc.

Thunder Bird

14th Apr 2017, 01:23

Recently, I just got accepted by QR on A330 with >4000 hrs. I'm looking for an upgrade in the future with QR. Does anyone know what fleet assigned for upgrade? Am I going back for 320 or right away on 330?

The Outlaw

14th Apr 2017, 03:32

Just some things for comparison:

Comes down to what is important to you at the end of the day.

I did the assessment at the unmentionable in 2015 before going to QR last year. I'm happy with my decision 'overall'.

Things to consider:

At my assessment at the unmentionable, we were told it is unlikely that your full allocation of leave would be awarded (because they simply don't have the capacity to do so). Not sure if this has changed but at QR I just got my full 42days allocated for the year commencing Apr 17 and got everything I wanted including 2weeks at Xmas and in July.

NO CHANCE AT EK. YOU MIGHT GET 42 DAYS ON 380, NOT 777. YOU DEFINITELY WILL NOT GET XMAS AND SUMMER IN SAME BID YEAR

I heard the time to command at the Unmentionable was very long (over 5years, closer to 10). I was told by a mate who's there that this isn't true (at least in his case and others he knew) but what is true is the command failure rate is Very high - majority failing rather than the minority. Obviously you should think positive but something to bear in mind. At QR, people seem to be getting the call at 4years (although slight variations - experience, fleet etc).

AT EK ANYWHERE FROM 5 TO 7 YEARS TODAY. IF YOU JOIN NOW IT'LL BE CLOSER TO 8-10. FAILURE RATE VARIES BUT PROBABLY AVERAGES AT 20%

At the unmentionable, I would've got 320 - I heard the roster is terrible and the 330 is not much better when you get the fleet transfer/dual rating. I got put on the 330 at QR and am happy with the roster so far... the bidding has worked well so far... when I want destinations I get them and when I bid for days off I get them also. I heard the 777 roster (and presumably 380) at the unmentionable is ok.

AT EK YOU MIGHT GET ONE REQUEST IN TOP BID. BIDDING FOR DAYS OFF OR CERTAIN TRIPS IS IMPOSSIBLE AS THE OPTIMISER BUILDS ROSTERS FOR MAXIMUM TIME AND MIN REST. NEW HIRES WILL MOST LIKELY BE HIRED ON 777 WHICH HAVE THE WORST ROSTERS TODAY

Also at QR if you're Type Rated (any fleet) there is no Bond. I seem to recall there was a bond at the unmentionable if you are Type Rated.

YOU WILL BE BONDED (AND BRANDED!) AT EK FOR 5 YEARS.

Regarding Abu Dhabi, I found it better than Doha but it wasn't 'that great', in fact some pilots I met were commuting in from Dubai.

PROBABLY TRUE

On my batch at QR 90% of the pilots are family people and Doha works ok for them because their primary concerns are maximizing time off to spend with the family and schools... they're not bothered so much with the nightlife... and if you forget about that, then the Middle East is basically all the same... shopping malls and sand.

TRUE

Anyway just a few points - you could consider a lot more, (in)stability of the airline, growth, benefits etc.

BUSH PILOT

14th Apr 2017, 03:36

Thanks Bananaman2, good to hear from someone who's actually there. Not too worried about the Doha nightlife so long as there's still enough of a social life to keep the family sane!

Turbokite

14th Apr 2017, 05:34

How quickly things change. QR is now the airline of choice in the ME with enviable rosters on their WB fleet. Sad how EK has literally dropped the ball and kicked it out of the playing field.

casablanca

14th Apr 2017, 06:58

Regarding upgrade at QR....there are no set rules. Often people go from FO on widebody, especially the 380'to Capt. on 320
However it is common for 330 FO to upgrade on the same.

Saltaire

14th Apr 2017, 07:05

EK on the 380 is still the best option for a new hire imo. The problem is how do you secure a seat? They can change allocations on a whim to the 777.

EK morale is currently in the toilet and the company is a badly micro managed circus but the reality is that 380 FO is a very good gig.

QR for now might have opportunity and quicker upgrades etc but you still have to LIVE in Doha. :yuk:

FlyingOW

14th Apr 2017, 16:58

QR hands down: more money, more time off, more leave, better rosters, better career progression, more destinations, more fleets, more buddy passes, etc

Valmont

14th Apr 2017, 21:22

Thanks guys. Not too worried about Doha's nightlife...
Saltaire, 380 FO might be a very good gig but time to upgrade is more than long right now and apparently they're now putting Airbus rated new joiners on the 777.

CMDGreen

17th Apr 2017, 08:51

About the command upgrades at QR...
I recently talked with a good friend who passed his command interview one year ago and they still did not schedule him for the course. Things are not going too fast there.

T&Cs must be similar in both places, salary too.
I would go for flying the 380 for EK rather than 320 for QR.
Living in Dubai is okay compared to Doha which is horrible.

Plus the 320 roster in QR is not the most comfortable I have seen.
Night turnarounds 3 nights in a row etc.
Unless you want to sleep at home with your family it might suit you.
(Sleep during the day...:})

Thunder Bird

17th Apr 2017, 10:15

CMDGreen

18th Apr 2017, 12:15

Dear CMD,

How long has he flown in the company until he got the command interview? Is he doing it in 320?

Many thanks.

Hi,

He is on the Boeing fleet. Having flown with QR for 5 years now.
I am not sure if it is the same with the Airbus guys.

richard III

21st Apr 2017, 19:52

Bush... best advice on this thread is, depends on what you want, Money? QR Hands Down. Career progression? QR again Roster stability, QR again, unless you are on the Boeing at the Abu mob. Housing? QR, either on company accommodation or on the market, cannot even compare. City? Abu is better, unless you are on the market looking to rent, then I prefer Doha. My two cents? if you have a family, you will be better off in Doha in all aspects. If you are single, you don't need as much money and partying and chasing skirts is your thing, go to Abu....just don't expect a quick upgrade.

Iver

21st Apr 2017, 23:52

How often are newhires at QR placed on the 787 or A350 fleets? Are most Boeing-rated newhires getting allocated to Boeing airplanes like the 787 & 777 at QR?

Che Xindamail

22nd Apr 2017, 17:58

New hires that are Boeing rated go onto both 787 and 777. We have 30 777X and another 30 787 on order.

On the Bus side, new hires with Airbus rating go onto A320 or A330. The A340, A350 and A380 have so far only been internal fleet transfer from 320/330. As we still have around 65 350s to come there will be lots of internal transfers with corresponding external hiring on the smaller buses.

Commands are running at 15-20/month but not enough to cover expansion. Recruitment is ongoing for DEC and DEFO on both Airbus and Boeing fleets.