EK European Recruitment Roadshow

[AlanPardew]

Fellow aviators,

Does anyone know if the roadshows are going as badly as is rumored? I've heard that hardly anyone is attending and they've had no applications.

Howay the lads

Alan

[qld330]

They've stopped coming to Hong Kong since the gasps and laughs when the package was displayed on the projection screen

[The Turtle]

Can't say, but I hope if the turnout is poor it is just one more "data point" for an increase in our package!

[anson harris]

Can't say, but I hope if the turnout is poor it is just one more "data point" for an increase in our package!

Why? They already own you...

[The Turtle]

Not me, sir, I am in my notice period....

But for those who remain, it would be nice to see!

[White Knight]

Loving the '15 cities in 30 days' recruitment ad right in the middle of this thread😂

[Jack330]

Fresh news from today, a couple of guys I know, that didn't pass the DEC screening last may ( according to me due to the incompetence of the assessors), have been called today to reapply and invited to go to the roadshow to meet the "new" recruitment team 😂😂

[Consol]

https://lovindublin.com/dublin/emirates-is-holding-a-roadshow-in-dublin-to-recruit-new-employees

Thought I'd show you what the Irish on line media have been fed.

[Monarch Man]

thanks Consol, interesting comments below the article, mostly it would seem from Kim Kardashian type wannabes all wanting a bit of sun.
The reality is the secret is out about EK, I was asked last time I was in DUB by a Cityjet F/O about the state of play, he got an honest answer and decided that he's avoiding EK and trying Qatar.

[BLOGGSON]

You see Monarch Man, Henry was right, it is your fault that nobdy wants to work here! You've got to stop spreading fake news that all is not well.

[donpizmeov]

Going by all the selfies (group one seen taken near sandwich bar on the 7th floor recently, good times!) and amount of hair gel now sold at the training college I think Monach is right.
It doesn't seem that long ago EK had a hold file of applicants that had passed the interview and we're waiting for a job. Awesome work by fleet to change things enough to reverse that.
Rumour has it new ideas are being entertained to attract new joiners. It would seem the impact of these new ideas on those already here need not be considered. They just don't get it do they?

[clear to land]

Thought Bubble: Great retention equals a happy workforce. A happy workforce reflects a desirable employer. A desireable employer means many applicants (think how competitive it was to get into EK a decade or more ago). There are many very simple and also cost neutral ways to fix retention-although all require Leadership not management-and a happy and motivated workforce would- amazingly- mean significantly greater profits for the company. Win-Win. Unfortunately as I don't have an MBA you can take this as my unqualified opinion only, that may bear no relation to any actual outcome.

[flareflyer]

Considering that 60 TRIs on the 380 have been deactivated for probably the whole next financial year maybe means that recruitment is not doing so well......

[glofish]

.... and parked right away!

Awesome management performance, isn't it?

[flareflyer]

How many 380 are supposed to be delivered next FY?

[The Foss]

Fellow aviators,

Does anyone know if the roadshows are going as badly as is rumored? I've heard that hardly anyone is attending and they've had no applications.

Howay the lads

Alan
Went to one of the ones in Dublin, didn't have too much interest in applying but it was only over the road and mildly hoped there might be some decent refreshments.

There was 5 of us at the start and another handful arrived throughout the presentation, finished with about 9 or 10. Fairly sparse considering there were seats for 40+

Breakdown of the guys was myself and 1 other from FR, a couple from cityjet and the rest were all Stobart.

Suspect the insistence that they only do an average of 85hrs per month to a max of 900 per year from the 'pilot representative' was innacurate at best

[Cloud Bunny]

So, Stobart is the best we can get?
They were probably the truck drivers as well! 😳😊

[Plank Cap]

Yes Stobart Truckers do come over but beware - the hours as previously limited on your tachographs won't even come close to what EK will want out of you, each day, week, month and year!

Meanwhile, I quite fancy the two weeks on/off roster Stobart are advertising on the ATR, Isle of Man base..........

[Flyhigh29]

Hi everyone,

I have heard some rumours that EK is not accepting frozen ATPL, does anyone know if that is true. I really hope anyone can clarify this matter to me.

I'm currently flying 737 NG and have 2000+ hours but still frozen ATPL due to the company I'm working for do not unfreeze our ATPL until our CU:ugh:

All help will be very much appreciated.


Thanks:)

[polax52]

You guys are keen to ensure that nobody considers employment with Emirates. Let me assure you that there are many thousands of experienced Pilots out there, like myself,who have looked carefully at Emirates and found the following unsatisfactory:

1. Salary/ Cost of living ratio (not particularly attractive compared to European Airlines)
2. Generally declining package
3. Unacceptable accommodation
4. Leave that is calculated fraudulently i.e. removing days off to give leave
5. Fraudulent calculation of flight hours
6. Generally poor safety practices with regard to fatigue and declining experience levels
7. Clearly poor labour relations

[TooLow]

Polax,

You've done your homework and are correct on all counts. I can attest to that and you've summed it up nicely.

What they sell you is lies. But people still come, so either things are worse elsewhere or guys believe the bs.

Toolow

[flareflyer]

Does anybody know how the roadshows did?
In europe tour should have finished

[Eau de Boeing]

I think about as well as Trump's healthcare plan....... :ugh::ugh:

[Ekisnotthebest]

You guys are keen to ensure that nobody considers employment with Emirates. Let me assure you that there are many thousands of experienced Pilots out there, like myself,who have looked carefully at Emirates and found the following unsatisfactory:

1. Salary/ Cost of living ratio (not particularly attractive compared to European Airlines)
2. Generally declining package
3. Unacceptable accommodation
4. Leave that is calculated fraudulently i.e. removing days off to give leave
5. Fraudulent calculation of flight hours
6. Generally poor safety practices with regard to fatigue and declining experience levels
7. Clearly poor labour relations

1. Sending home around 2500-3000 euro a month. I'm married but no children
2. Yes but havent seen it decline over the last 2 years
3. 3 bedroom apartment with georgous view. Honestly, something I could nevver afford and perfect for newlyweds.
4. Have been getting 30-40 days each year and most of my preferences (I do not need peak so I dont bid for it)
5. Yes but have not been maxed out yet since joining (850 ish)
6. I'm 28 years old and yes after night turns im tired but not more tired than my previous experience in shorthaul
7. Welcome to the big leagues

[TwinJock]

You guys are keen to ensure that nobody considers employment with Emirates. Let me assure you that there are many thousands of experienced Pilots out there, like myself,who have looked carefully at Emirates and found the following unsatisfactory:

1. Salary/ Cost of living ratio (not particularly attractive compared to European Airlines)
2. Generally declining package
3. Unacceptable accommodation
4. Leave that is calculated fraudulently i.e. removing days off to give leave
5. Fraudulent calculation of flight hours
6. Generally poor safety practices with regard to fatigue and declining experience levels
7. Clearly poor labour relations

Great summary of working conditions in the ME at present....

[Kapitanleutnant]

Had heard the recent Central European road show had 8 attendees and of those 8 only two were even qualified to apply... of those two, one of them just went to visit someone he knew on the recruitment team. So, only 1 qualified... and only 8 in attendance.

When will EK learn... RE-ASSESS, RE-ACTION, RE-MANAGE. They drill that into their crews quite a bit but simply don't follow it when it comes to having to keep up with the times of higher demand for pilots worldwide.

K

[Feather44]

https://media.giphy.com/media/O38dU2kkQ9sWc/200w.gif

Thanks for the laugh :)

[Fat Busdriver]

Hello guys,

I went to one of the roadshows in London, the 2 ladies were very nice but we were only 5 pilots there. I was very surprised!I expected 100 people at least! It's Europes biggest city! 2 Busdrivers, 1 TP guy and the last 2 I am not sure of their rides. They told us bus drivers that we are harder to recruit and will 100% get the 380.
Sounded good to me but according to this forum its a lie? Can anybody in recruitment confirm? Regarding the Atpl, when you are offered a position with Emirates you will need to acquire full ATPL before joining. Either asking your employer or paying it yourself! Its only a sim check! ( You will need at least 270 PIC on any aircraft to be eligible for ATPL, EASA rules)
You are allowed to apply with 1800 hours on Jet but will need to have 2000 before joining. So they are not flexible with the requirements!
Also according to the ladies housing allowance is still offered to the new joiners.

Regards

[High_To_Low]

Mate of mine from Australia joined last year in September. He had around 800hr on the A320...was given B777. That about sums it up

[InnocentBystander]

They told us bus drivers that we are harder to recruit and will 100% get the 380.

Don't count on this. They will put you where they need you. Guys had their aircraft changed during the first week of induction.

Right now they desperately need people on the 777. A380 deliveries are being delayed right now because the aircraft is losing too much money and they were fat on crews there to begin with.

[AlanPardew]

You won't join on the 380, regardless of experience. Delayed deliveries and 60 trainers stood down each month combined with a shortage of 777 pilots means new recruits will go onto the Boeing.
If they're using the 380 as a carrot then changing you onto a 777 after moving to Dubai it's disgusting behaviour.
Alan

[Fat Busdriver]

You won't join on the 380, regardless of experience. Delayed deliveries and 60 trainers stood down each month combined with a shortage of 777 pilots means new recruits will go onto the Boeing.
If they're using the 380 as a carrot then changing you onto a 777 after moving to Dubai it's disgusting behaviour.
Alan


Thanks for the info guys, and yep its disgusting behavior! They are not going to recruit me if you can not trust what they are saying!

[sluggums]

And in the nicest way, it took you until now to work this out? SOP at EK. Smoke and mirrors.

[donpizmeov]

All low experienced FOs will join on the 777. If you have the required hours for the 380 I would be surprised if you were not put on it, as they can not find anyone with the requirements. 737 pilots were put on 380 courses recently. 6 380s are delayed this year, same deliveries are planed next year, and 6 extra in the following year.

[Hook]

Oh how things have changed....
A few years back some people were complaining because they were offered a 777 FO position but then switched last minute to the A330. I bet those guys must be so thankful now.
I almost feel sorry for the people on those recruitment trips - must be so, so embarrassing for them but how on earth can you expect people to show up if nobody trusts what you are offering?
Henry blames PPrune of course. As if all the pilots resigning from EK are doing so because they read PPrune and not because of what they're going through in their daily lives.

[thatwasclose]

People are still going to the 380 .
I imagine if you have 1500 in a bus you are set .
Am not a fan of EK but truth is truth

[Fat Busdriver]

People are still going to the 380 .
I imagine if you have 1500 in a bus you are set .
Am not a fan of EK but truth is truth

Guys all my hours are on the bus, I still do not have 2000 but I am getting there, can you confirm that if you join with 2000 on the A321 the you should get the 380? What is the requirement exactly for the 380? I would like to fly the 777 as well but not in Emirates! You guys have scared the **** out of me haha!

[InnocentBystander]

People are still going to the 380 .
I imagine if you have 1500 in a bus you are set .
Am not a fan of EK but truth is truth

Are you going to bet your career on it?

You won't know for sure until your final line check. Manpower planning is in sheer panic mode and they don't give a flying rats ass about you.

Once you're there, you're stuck.

[XTurb]

I met a new joiner recently who his starting on the 777. He has just come off the A320, which he's been flying for 4 years. He had command turboprop ATR time and second officer time on the 777, perhaps he wanted to get back on the Boeing. I didn't ask, not wanting to come across as nosey. Either way I have a feeling he's going to regret not going onto the 380.

[Yorkshire_Pudding]

If deliveries of 380s cease much earlier than planned and airframe retirements start in a few years time as already scheduled a new joiner is going to be FO for a very long time. I can see the newer 300ERs being retained and 777x replacing 380s. 777 will be the fleet to be on in the coming years.

[donpizmeov]

Yorkshire, as they are planning a 380 fleet size of 120 and there are already 94? Delivered, commands for new joiners are already a long way away. Same situation on the 777. With Little fleet growth ahead.

[Monarch Man]

Don, they are already parking brand spanking 380s destined for us in TLS, I think it's VERY unlikely the fleet will reach 120. It maybe the message in public and too the troops but I'd wager a pint at fibbers they'll replace a few and start reducing the older girls ASAP.
Hindsight is 20/20, but it seems cancelling the 350s was a mistake.

[White Knight]

At the rate the 777 is taking over 380 routes, I imagine most new joiners will be for the 777. EK may be overstaffed on the 380.

Overstaffed on the 380? Why then do I do 95 hours every month? Maybe because the 380s have just taken 3 routes from the 777 chaps (NRT, CMN and GRU) whilst throwing some routes back...

The reason aeroplanes are parked is simple. NOT ENOUGH PILOTS and recruiting is, let's face it, just not happening because of the hole that the company has dug itself:rolleyes:

[donpizmeov]

Yorkshire, the latest 380 arrived in DXB on the 26th March. Seems it's finance was handled by someone be they a clown or not.
When I arrived at EK, my Boeing colleagues were saying then that the order (then) of 20 380s would be cancelled and replaced by more 777s. They then said it would never do ULR or sectors over 7hrs. They said it would never depart on time,be able to carry freight/bags, or that the airports around the world would never accept them etc etc. Now probability would suggest that after nearly two decades of being wrong they may one day get it right. But at the moment, the only white tails I see parked outside of engineering seem to be Boeings.

[glofish]

the only white tails I see parked outside of engineering seem to be Boeings

.... ehhh, Don, getting the Trump-Virus??? :ugh:

[luvly jubbly]

Yorkshire, the latest 380 arrived in DXB on the 26th March. Seems it's finance was handled by someone be they a clown or not.
When I arrived at EK, my Boeing colleagues were saying then that the order (then) of 20 380s would be cancelled and replaced by more 777s. They then said it would never do ULR or sectors over 7hrs. They said it would never depart on time,be able to carry freight/bags, or that the airports around the world would never accept them etc etc. Now probability would suggest that after nearly two decades of being wrong they may one day get it right. But at the moment, the only white tails I see parked outside of engineering seem to be Boeings.

Aren't while tails aircraft being returned? Parked aircraft won't have white tails

[777-200LR]

The three recent destinations that went to the A380 were all single daily flights (GRU, CMN, NRT and soon NCE), so it makes sense. Somewhere along the line someone thought it would be a good idea to load the A380 onto most of the two and three daily flights (DUS, LGW, ZRH, MUC, MAN, BHX etc), those clearly do not warrant a A380 all year round and hence you see the shuffle between A380 and 777s, when times were still pretty good.

As long as those high-density traffic routes like LHE, ISB, KHI, and the entire seat restricted Indian routes stay on the Boeing, I don't see CM not being able to convince the top floor to cut the loses and 120 order never reached.

Someone mentioned it a mistake cancelling the A350s, lets just hope it wasn't a fatal mistake!

[P7xkk]

Aircraft are being returned, but they are all 777s. The first 380 does not go for a while yet. Meanwhile, although some 380 deliveries have been deferred, they will continue to arrive as they are all firm orders, not options. Penalties for cancellations would likely be prohibitive, and swapping to A350s may not be practical or indeed possible. I have not researched the production rate or the order book for that type, but a swift "about face" would look embarrassing in certain circles methinks.

[keepitrealok]

So do they still show rosters at the roadshows?

If so I wonder if they show you the ones with, say, US trips where you fly all day, land between 1900-2100 and it listed as a 'Rest Day,' giving you a false illusion of time off in Dubai?

'Rest Day' with 16hrs of work. More than the oxygen-thieving office dwellers do in a working week, yet for pilots it's apparently a rest day........

Confirm you are desperate with no other options before applying to EK.

[Tricia Takanawa]

Can somebody please post a few example rosters from the 777. Obviously unidentified. Just want to see the reality of flying for EK.

At the road show they gave an indication of 4.5 years to upgrade. What is the reality here? This seemed rather optimistic.

Thanks in advance!:ok:

[Icarus2001]

At the road show they gave an indication of 4.5 years to upgrade.

Was that MAXIMUM? hahaha

[fatbus]

Average time to upgrade at the present time . Slowly getting longer and longer.

[aussiefarmer]

At the road show they gave an indication of 4.5 years to upgrade. What is the reality here? This seemed rather optimistic.

Thanks in advance!:ok:

At the moment:

BOEING 777
Minimum age to be eligible 32
Newest Capt right now joined end of 2011 (about 5 years ago)


AIRBUS A380
Minimum age to be eligible 35
Newest Capt right now joined autumn 2011 (about 5.5 years ago)


Now the reality is with the massive slowdown in expansion, provided you are not "too young", upgrades will be highly dependant on attrition (which is very high at the moment)

For someone who joins today, pure maths say he won't be upgrading in less than 8-10 years, unless half of the workforce quits or things change dramatically (such as the introduction of a narrowbody fleet).

Also note there is no seniority in Emirates. Or if there is one, management totally ignores it.

[felixthecat]

The 4.5 years might be for a guy today....but for a new joiner joining today today I would think much more.

[kcar]

At the road show they gave an indication of 4.5 years to upgrade. What is the reality here? This seemed rather optimistic.

Thanks in advance!:ok:

Let's do the numbers game.

Guys starting their command training this month joined in Dec 2011 so that's about 5 years and 4 month at the moment. They joined the 777 when the number of aircrafts was below 100 and now close to 130 so they've seen an expansion of about 30% and yet had to wait close to 5,5 years.

Without any further real expansion you're looking at attrition alone.
Going back one year from now 98 B777 skippers resigned.
There are some 1370 FOs on the Boeing at the moment..
.. and they're hiring direct entry captains.
I'll let you do the math

Throughout both fleet the attrition rate is about 5,5% at the moment.
As a side note, of all the positions the highest rate in attrition is among the new joining 777 FOs with 11% resigning within their first year.

[Cloud Bunny]

Don't worry about it we'll be fine. Just saw the latest ad on LinkedIn showing a tray of crew meals!
Is that really what's going to attract the brightest and the best??!!! "Hey look at Emirates...they feed the pilots! Wow gotta be a great place to work I'll apply immediately"
Can just see the line up of applicants now holding their 'will work for food' billboards!

[Plank Cap]

Cloud Bunny, as a way of enticing yet more new recruits into the company, maybe time to bring back 'Is Your Dinner A Winner'...????!!

http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/552831-let-s-play-your-dinner-winner.html

[Big Enos Burdette]

"Treasure Noodles"

[Big Enos Burdette]

Don't worry about it we'll be fine. Just saw the latest ad on LinkedIn showing a tray of crew meals!

Looks like the Arabic Mezze appetiser from the First Class menu to me.

[flareflyer]

Latest rumour is that AAR ordered some PSP to engage crew and pax to understand what is going wrong and why the company has no soul.....

[gardenshed]

See the middle to bottom of page two and onwards on the "End of FY2016-17"
Should tell him all he needs to know.

[Monarch Man]

Latest rumour is that AAR ordered some PSP to engage crew and pax to understand what is going wrong and why the company has no soul.....

The really sad thing is when you read or hear about a rumour like this is, you know it's very likely to have a large element of truth to it or at the very least have a basis in a set of facts that are very similar.
We are now at the stage where the data driven management mindset is so divorced from reality that no number of people pointing out the glaringly obvious can change the culture, the mindset or the direction of the place.
There is now so much organisational intertia a leadership change is the only viable way forward, but in order to make a change there would need to be an admission of culpability and error and that's as likely to happen as bacon or booze being sold in the crew shop.
There used to be a TV programme on U.K. TV called "back to the floor" and in the US they called it "undercover boss", if AAR or any of his team we're genuinely interested in understanding the personal and product issues this would be a good way to start, clearly however, those of us that work here know that for those "untouchable" passport holders it is far easier to pay someone to find the answers to questions that need asking...and if the answers are not as expected or wanted they find someone else who will answer as required. Data is only useful if it's valid....having a team of "yes" surrounding you continues to miss the point.
AAR will never be told the truth by anyone who works for him simply because his mindset has always been to ignore the message and shoot the messenger.

[flareflyer]

I suppose....

[adel]

The last time we engaged with AAR, we lost the ability to bid for days off before and after leave....
Heaven forbid we engage again, what else will he implement to enhance our package 😬

[alwayzinit]

Which reminds me, where did the Staff Survey results go...............................

[fliion]

It went into the room that the EPT was seen walking out of...

[High_To_Low]

Any truth to the rumour that the company is rostering all EK pilots 4 days off in a row now?

[glofish]

Yes, true. They will however be deducted from the leave bank. :{

[Calmcavok]

Any truth to the rumour that the company is rostering all EK pilots 4 days off in a row now?

Hahahahahahahahahahaha....hiccup....hahahahahahahhaha.

No.

(maybe on the 380)

[fatbus]

If they park enough you might get month on month off

[Cloud Bunny]

Looks like the Arabic Mezze appetiser from the First Class menu to me.

It sure does look like it. Obviously no one is going to post a response on the social media site but I wonder if it would been idea to email the girl and tell her she's trying to flog the airline using an image that is against it's own policies?!