EngO Advice

[EngO2017]

Hello all. I'm new to Pprune.

I have recently been selected by OASC for Engineer Officer training and was wondering,
If you could give any advice for a new EngO in their first posting what would it be?

Many thanks.

[Pontius Navigator]

Depends on the flavour. Will you be Eng Mech or Eng Elec?

And advice? Allow that the Chief, FS, or WO know more than you do but don't let them pull the wool over your eyes.

[NutLoose]

There will be a lot of experience and sound knowledge on offer to you from those in the ranks and elsewhere, listen to all views and make sound decisions based upon it... Both sides will know it is a learning curve, remember, respect is earned, and not something you were born with.

I had Engineering Officers both good and bad, the bad ones... well enough said, the good ones though would take the time to appear out on the VC10 line sometimes in the lousiest weather at night to see how you are getting on with some of the long running jobs, not all the time mind you, just the odd occasions.... but I appreciated it and so did the others and it meant you felt cared for...

Good luck with the career.

[Avtur]

listen to all views and make sound decisions based upon it...

Couldn't agree more.

[Red Line Entry]

First of all, don't panic! You've got 30 weeks of Initial Officer Training at Cranwell and then another 30 weeks of Engineer Officer Foundation Training at Cosford before you need worry about your first tour.

Having said that, and this is a personal opinion, if you're Eng(AS) then set your sights now on being a JEngO (Junior Engineer Officer) on your first tour. Very few get it as a first tour, but it's a hell of a feather in your cap if you do (and don't worry, Cosford won't let it happen if you're not up to it)

And if you're Eng(CE), then I haven't got a clue what you people do...:ok:

[Red Line Entry]

And this is why you'd want to be a JEngO...


https://www.gradcracker.com/hub/500/royal-air-force/videos/1669/engineer-this-raf-no-ordinary-job

[ancientaviator62]

Treat your 'troops' they way you would wish to be treated. It may sound trite but it will stand you in good stead. They have lives professional and personal too.
Rolling up your sleeves and helping now and again out will do wonders for your practical knowledge not to mention your street cred. Even if all you do is pass the spanners.

[PeregrineW]

NutLoose has hit the nail on the head, I think. Some EngOs were impossible to get out of their offices, which was fine if you needed something signing, at least you knew where to find them. Others took the time to see how things were going out in the wind and rain; those are the ones I remember in a positive light.

All of the above applies equally to WOs, Flt Sgts, and other SNCOs too, mind you...

[NutLoose]

Thanks, I always maintained you couldn't make a sound judgement on a job or estimate a time-scale without getting out there and seeing the problems the guys faced and the difficulties that could / can pop up.
Theory is great, but practical skills and visual evidence to the time a task can take are worth their weight in gold, and you do not build that skill set sitting at a desk.
It also allows you to know what you are actually talking about, and not relying on someone else who could be feeding you a load of crock.

[teeteringhead]

Another of those roles in which the old cavalry advice: "Horse to bed, man to bed, self to bed." defines your priorities.

Get the horse/jet/frame sorted, then look after the troops; only then consider yourself ........

[Melchett01]

Cranwell will spend ages ramming various theories of leadership down your throat, boring you to death in a stuffy warm classroom or freezing your nuts off carrying pine poles round the North Airfield in the process of proving said theories.

But if you act with common sense, try to work out what your Boss and his Boss has to achieve and make sure your team is oriented in that general direction, and in the process treat your people as human beings, and crucially, learn the distinction between doing the correct thing and doing the right thing. then you won't go too far wrong in your first couple of tours. Your troops will see what you're trying to do, will look after you (it's a 2 way thing) and give you enough breathing space to develop your own effective and credible leadership style as opposed to the theories Cranwell tries to indoctrinate you with.

[Slow Biker]

1. Read and digest para 2 of #11.
2. Don't be a manager; be a leader.

[EngO2017]

Thank you guys for some great advice. I will do my best.

[D120A]

Super advice above; I would offer just a little more:

On the rare occasions anyone says ‘well done’, remember it was nothing to do with you and make sure you have the names of all the people who actually made it happen on the tip of your tongue.

On the much more frequent occasions you get hauled in for the opposite, take all the blame yourself. That’s what officers are for.

I hated hats-on shouting admonitions, of the type you will undoubtedly experience at Cranwell and perhaps afterwards. They didn’t work on me (the shouter invariably didn’t know all the facts) and I saw them de-motivate many people. In contrast, one of my early bosses sat me down, expressed his disappointment with something I had done, made sure I had learned the lessons and offered his help if I needed it to ensure a better outcome next time. So that’s what I subsequently tried to do, not so effectively as him I am sure, but I did my best. I hope you are as lucky in your early bosses and mentors.

Para 2 of #11 has it all. You will come across leaders of all types and of varying effectiveness. Watch and learn, and adopt the things you like that suit your personality and intellect. None of them are under copyright!

Good luck with your career; I would love to lose 50 years and do it all again. Properly this time, of course.

[Herod]

Good luck with your career; I would love to lose 50 years and do it all again. Properly this time, of course.

I was a pilot (RAF and commercial), but I totally agree with that comment.

[NutLoose]

The fact that you asked already puts you in a good light.

[bridgets boy]

What the guys all say is true - have integrity, make decisions (you will make loads, some of them result in your signature, and mean you are signing to say that an aircraft has operational limitations that you want to make the aircrew aware of, or is airworthy despite having defects). Being an RAF EngO is a great profession, but you must always make the aircrew's safety, as well as that of your groundcrew (YOUR people) the main priority. Before I was let loose, the Wg Cdr authorising me simply said "never make a decision that will lose you sleep at night". Your groundcrew will respect you for having the guts, and you will have earned your rations in terms of looking after the aircrew. The aircrew will thank you in their own time.

[Wander00]

D120A has it in a nutshell, but then he would do, having been that kind of Eng O, even at SO level

[Moi/]

EngO BES scheme is open again and short of numbers. Certainly thinking about it however could i go through the hassle of the 12-14 months at Cosford, then 30 weeks at Cranwell, then 30 weeks at Engineer Officer Training.

Thats even if i manage to get selected and get through OASC. Currently signed on for LOS 30, served 17 out of 30. I wonder what the Return of Service is for the BES Scheme.

[Harley Quinn]

Thats even if i manage to get selected and get through OASC. Currently signed on for LOS 30, served 17 out of 30. I wonder what the Return of Service is for the BES Scheme.

Without wishing to appear harsh, if you feel that you need to ask such a question here you may not be quite what they are looking for.

[Melchett01]

EngO BES scheme is open again and short of numbers. Certainly thinking about it however could i go through the hassle of the 12-14 months at Cosford, then 30 weeks at Cranwell, then 30 weeks at Engineer Officer Training.

Thats even if i manage to get selected and get through OASC. Currently signed on for LOS 30, served 17 out of 30. I wonder what the Return of Service is for the BES Scheme.

In all honesty, probably not unless you really really want it and can see yourself wearing Flt Lt rank slides and being content to leave the hands on spanner work to others whilst you do all the other bits and pieces associated with keeping things running. Regardless of Branch, none of them are easy options, and you first need to convince yourself that you should be there before trying to convince OASC who will ruthlessly exploit any chinks in your armour to see how you respond . You probably can do it, but you need to train yourself to believe that first.

[Slow Biker]

Melchett you have it. I once did the Biggin Hill bit without giving it proper thought; good candidate they said but try again next time, but I didn't. When thinking about reapplying I realized I did not have, and never really did have, the necessary burning desire, which cannot be faked, and as you say, it will show. Life went on to a full and satisfying career with no regrets.
EngO2017, good luck, you are making the right moves.
MOI/, think long and hard. then go for it.

[thegndeng]

Don't go in all all guns blazing! Take your time to assess what go's on, who's who etc.

Be a leader, not a micro manager.

[Moi/]

The main "hassle" is the back to "Day 1" stuff at IOT Cranwell. I guess this could be why the BES scheme uptake is low.

Definately Definately no financial benefit to the jump, probably would not see a pay increase for 6 years* or until i reached 3-year Flt Lt (under current NEM Pay Scales). *Assuming 1yr Cosford, 1 year Cranwell, 1yr as Fg Off, 3 year in rank as Flt Lt.

EngO was something that i wanted to become 12 years ago ish, betwen now and then "the family" came along and priorities changed. I became "busy" with work (and life). Now i look around and see its possibily time to try something new/rock the boat/do something i wanted to do years ago, before its too late.

I'll think about it....

[The Oberon]

Sorry about the drift. BES scheme? Is that a new name for what I knew as a Branch Commission?

[superplum]

Sorry about the drift. BES scheme? Is that a new name for what I knew as a Branch Commission?
No, unless things have changed. The BO route was replaced by the Commissioned Warrant Officer scheme. BES is just the route for the younger airmen and NCO's etc. BO's were "binneed" because they were too expensive (as told to me by my ex--Desk Officer).
:cool:

[downsizer]

BES is Basic Engineer Scheme whereby members of TG1 and 4 can gain an engineering degree at cosford and commission as EngOs.

[ICO]

Don't go for JEngO first tour, even the best struggle trying to learn all about being a Flt Cdr alongside the engineering decisions - it will not be much fun if you're topping out on capacity. It's much better to cut your teeth as an OC GEF or 2nd Line Bay where you learn all about the Flt Cdr role without the pressure of delivering x number of ac for the flying programme.