A nuclear 'occurrence'?

[Al R]

Well, it is a rumour network.

Has There Been A ?Nuclear Incident? In The Arctic? - The Drive (http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/7758/has-there-been-a-nuclear-incident-in-the-arctic)

[msbbarratt]

Certainly looks like something has happened.

I guess that if these traces hang around then we're looking at a leaking reactor, which could constantly replenish the short-lived I131. And if they disappear soon then it's not something that is leaking uncontrollably - a fixed leak or (unlikely because no one's heard the bang) a weapon test.

I imagine that some subs are probably being sent hither and thither too, getting seawater samples from all over. Presumably if this is in the air but not in the sea then we're looking at a land based incident. Though I don't suppose anyone is about to tell us where their subs are going.

[A_Van]

According to the second Figure in the article as per URL mentioned by the topic starter, Iodine-131 level in Poland is some 10-20 times higher than in all other territories observed.

AFAIK, there are no such powerplants in that country (or they are?), thus maybe something happened in the neighbouring countries?

[Buster Hyman]

So...something DID happen in Sweden then....:}:}:}

[ORAC]

What were the wind patterns at the time?

[chopper2004]

That's why there's a WC-135W arrived over the weekend at the 'Hall

https://theaviationist.com/2017/02/19/u-s-air-force-deploys-wc-135-nuclear-sniffer-aircraft-to-uk-after-spike-of-radioactive-iodine-levels-detected-in-europe/

Cheers

[Fitter2]

Apparently (from the aviationist article)

crew compliments are kept to a minimum

I've always found a bit of praise raises morale.

[NutLoose]

Yep, they would appreciate the odd compliment.


..

[josephfeatherweight]

Fitter2 - nice one!

[Fonsini]

My guess - the Russkies had another pile fire, this time a small one and most likely military hence the silence - Murmansk caught my eye. Overlaying reactor locations on that sampling map would be useful.

[Davef68]

Better get the VC10 up there.......oh, wait....does Voyager have that capacity?

[Heathrow Harry]

That Norwegian site is about as close as you can get to Murmansk - and there are a load of old subs, ice breakers and god knows what with Npower plants scattered along the coast from Kirkenes to Murmansk

[sandiego89]

Looks like the US is getting a good return on investment with the WC-135's- 1962 series aircraft I believe, and they were almost headed to the boneyard a few years ago before things heated up in N. Korea.

[A_Van]

This US aircraft should be permanently located near Japan because what the Japanese are regularly flushing into the Pacific (and that finally reaches the US West Coast) is million times higher that those nano levels detected in Europe.
In Europe it could come from lots of sources: even a very shallow search shows that a similar situation was in autumn 2011 when there was a small leak of some stuff in Hungary at the plant where medical sensors were manufactured using radioactive isotopes. This could happen everywhere. Oh, sorry, of course the Russians are to be blamed: they developed Katrina and sent it to New Orleans and also they are boiling El Nino from time to time :-)

[Heathrow Harry]

I think the planes are often in Japan Van - watching the short fat guy with the really bad haircut............

Tho I'm sure you're right - probabaly a very small scale leak

[Chris Kebab]

I am even more staggered by the idea of nuclear powered lighthouses (OP's link) - is it just me who has never heard of them before:confused:

[NutLoose]

Worse than that Chris they were unmanned and some were swiped for scrap.

Abandoned Russian Polar Nuclear Lighthouses | English Russia (http://englishrussia.com/2009/01/06/abandoned-russian-polar-nuclear-lighthouses/)

Two nuclear generators missing in Arctic | Barentsobserver (http://barentsobserver.com/en/arctic/2013/08/two-nuclear-generators-missing-arctic-26-08)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisotope_thermoelectric_generator

[A_Van]

HH,

Yes, "get shorty" is something that must be done, finally. But there is another issue in Europe on the topic under consideration: there are 4 powerplants in Ukraine (incl. ill-fated Chernobyl) that use Russia-made fuel elements (it was part of the design). But recently the Ukrainian regime (that hates the Russian one) decided to purchase the fuel from Westinghouse and this change already resulted in several accidents when even the reactors had to be shut down and then re-started. The latest shut-down was on Jan. 17th this year, BTW. Competent scientists periodically warn the operators that they are playing with fire, but the latter don't listen to "egg-headed". They really have a short memory.


NutLoose,

May I kindly suggest you to look at the map, your knowledge of geography is insufficient. Your first link is about far east and the second one is about Taymyr - thousands miles away from Murmansk. Even less relevant to the topic than H-bombs lost by US bombers.

[NutLoose]

But recently the Ukrainian regime (that hates the Russian one)

No sh*t....I wonder why?

[Chris Kebab]

Well there you go; thanks for that Nutty, learn something every day.

[Pontius Navigator]

A Van, what you write usually makes sense even if some believe you work for Pravda, but why send an AIRCRAFT to detect MARINE pollution? A sniffer aircraft works best with air sampling.

[Pontius Navigator]

Worse than that Chris they were unmanned and some were swiped for scrap.

Abandoned Russian Polar Nuclear Lighthouses | English Russia (http://englishrussia.com/2009/01/06/abandoned-russian-polar-nuclear-lighthouses/)
Interesting that the Russian in the 2nd of 5th photos is not wearing any clothes, at least waist up.

[ORAC]

Is it Putin?????

[HAS59]

It's just a thought guys but some long endurance spacecraft have (small) nuclear reactors.

[Fonsini]

It's just a thought guys but some long endurance spacecraft have (small) nuclear reactors.
An RTG isn't truly a "reactor" more accurately it is a "generator".

[pasta]

It's just a thought guys but some long endurance spacecraft have (small) nuclear reactors.
Generally not ones that hang around Earth though; Solar power works quite well in this part of the Solar System; RTG generators come into their own for probes that travel much further away from the sun, such as Cassini (Saturn) and the Voyager probes.

[HAS59]

okay Nuclear Generator, thanks Fonsini for putting me straight. I was thinking back to the days when Kosmos 954 came down over Canada scattering nuclear debris over a wide area. There are a lot of fairly heavy satellites orbiting, some of them may well still have nuclear propulsion/generation materiel onboard.

[MATELO]

Can we rule out an RTG, given the half life of Iodine 131 is about 8 days, and would seem pretty pointless to use it for space stuff.

[A_Van]

PN, you wrote
A Van, what you write usually makes sense even if some believe you work for Pravda, but why send an AIRCRAFT to detect MARINE pollution? A sniffer aircraft works best with air sampling. You are right about a/c - I was actually thinking in a more general way, smth like "US probes" on all kinds of platforms (sea, undersea, air). In fact, though water is the main subject to be permanently monitored, things keep happening in Fukishima and surprisingly they are not given attention at all in "non-Asian" media. And during major leaks, it looks like traces could be found not only in the water...

E.g., just 3 weeks ago there was a new incident, which is described in an article as per the following URL:
Highest radiation reading since 3/11 detected at Fukushima No. 1 reactor | The Japan Times (http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2017/02/03/national/fukushima-radiation-level-highest-since-march-11/)

Just a couple of excerpts:
"The radiation level in the containment vessel of reactor 2 at the crippled Fukushima No. 1 power plant has reached a maximum of 530 sieverts per hour, the highest since the triple core meltdown in March 2011, Tokyo Electric Power Co. Holdings Inc. said."
"At 530 sieverts, a person could die from even brief exposure", "Also, given the extraordinary level of radiation, the robot would only be able to operate for less than two hours before it is destroyed."
I can imagine what cry would start if there was anything "bleeding" like this for years in Europe or US. Japanese are just lucky that they can hide everything in the Pacific.


P.S. Let me assure you that I do not work for Pravda :-) Was never subscribed to this crap even during SU times (I wonder if it's still alive?). After retirement from the AF I am in hi-tech biz (IT, modeling & simulation and likes) and never worked for the government.

[TEEEJ]

WC-135 noted leaving Mildenhall around midday.

https://theaviationist.com/2017/02/22/u-s-wc-135-nuclear-sniffer-airplane-has-left-the-uk-heading-towards-norway-and-the-barents-sea/

[msbbarratt]

Can we rule out an RTG, given the half life of Iodine 131 is about 8 days, and would seem pretty pointless to use it for space stuff. RTGs don't run a controlled fission chain reaction like a nuclear reactor does, so there is no means by which they can evolve I131 (at least not in large quantities). So yes, I think we can rule out an RTG.

Plutonium is weird stuff. A lump of it will crack and fall apart, because it's so radioactive that parts of it transmute to different elements which then disrupt the crystaline lattice of the metallic plutonium. It's normally used as plutonium oxide powder (or pellets of the same), which is much more mechanically stable.

RTGs are simply a large thermocouple heated by the plutonium. AFAIK the effective limit on their lifetime is a function of the damage (transmitation) caused to the thermocouple by the radiation coming off the plutonium.

[Lyneham Lad]

In fact, though water is the main subject to be permanently monitored, things keep happening in Fukishima and surprisingly they are not given attention at all in "non-Asian" media. And during major leaks, it looks like traces could be found not only in the water...

E.g., just 3 weeks ago there was a new incident, which is described in an article as per the following URL:

Those incidents were actually reported in the UK Press (The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/feb/03/fukushima-daiichi-radiation-levels-highest-since-2011-meltdown)).

[Snafu351]

The leakage form Fukushima, such as it is, is miniscule when compared to the significant levels of radiation already present in sea water. The figures are something like 0.00000 etc. percent is the contribution from Fukushima.