'Shackleton Boys'

[Steve Bond]

The next book I am doing in Grub Street's 'Boys' series will be 'Shackleton Boys' which is planned for publication in 2018. As with all the other titles in the series, the book will be mostly comprised of first-hand accounts from air and ground crew who flew in or worked on the Shack at any time during its long and illustrious service life.

I am already in contact with quite a few 'Shackleton Boys', but now the call is going out for as many more as possible who are willing to share their memories and anecdotes. No matter how long or short your association with the type was, I would love to talk to you about it.

So please get in touch - I look forward to hearing from you.

Thank you

Steve Bond

[Sandy Parts]

Excellent resource here - https://www.thegrowler.org.uk/
I think they keep a list of members so you could pop an ad in the next edition of the growler.
Are you going to call the MR chapter "Shackleton Buoys"? ;)

[Amos Keeto]

Hi Steve,

I was expecting to see this here. However suggest you also put it on the 'Aviation History & Nostalgia' thread too? I'm sure this will make 'riveting' reading! ;)

Adrian

[Arclite01]

and hurry to publish.

My Dad is 80 - he'll want to read this having been on 37 and 38 Sqn in the 50's at Luqa (Air Radar)

In fact can we have a lot of stuff on 37 & 38 in the book ??, they seem to be the least documented Shack Sqns IMHO..........

Arc

[Steve Bond]

Thanks Arclite. Private message sent.

Thanks for the heads up about the Shackleton Association - I am a member!

[Steve Bond]

Any aircrew lurking out there? Come on chaps.

[Cows getting bigger]

I believe Dunhovrin off this parish was a shack driver.

[Lancman]

Of the six aircraft types that I flew in the RAF the Shackleton was the one on which I was the most unhappy. But then, it might just have been Ballykelly.

[langleybaston]

To my regret, after 41 years serving mostly on RAF stations, I never ever saw a Shackleton except once as a fly-by at a B o B Day at Finningley. I suspect that, by the very nature of the aircrafts' tasks, there will be a fair few RAF folk who were similarly denied the growl [and the rattling!].

[Pontius Navigator]

I recall the story of the Mk 3 at Farnborough. On day 2 the second aircraft departed and the the first landed. On day 3 the first aircraft for and the 2nd landed.

They had spent 24 hours trawling up and down the Channel turning Avtur in to noise while the crew got scurvy and grew beards.

I wondered why they didn't work up at St Mawgan and have a few beers and not shave or change .

[MadsDad]

One time I was at an Air Day at St. Mawgan with a couple of friends, one of whom had been Shackleton aircrew.

So the Shackleton was doing it's display and we could see it turning in a mile or so away. The tannoy then announced it was going to do a 'fast pass' and the ex-Shack mat just said "ok, we've got time for a coffee then".

[212man]

I recall the story of the Mk 3 at Farnborough. On day 2 the second aircraft departed and the the first landed. On day 3 the first aircraft for and the 2nd landed.

They had spent 24 hours trawling up and down the Channel turning Avtur in to noise while the crew got scurvy and grew beards.

I wondered why they didn't work up at St Mawgan and have a few beers and not shave or change .

Did they have the turboprop conversion?

[rvusa]

I had the dubious honour of being on the third Shackleton trip from the September 1960 Farnborough on the 7th/8th. We didn't 'trawl up and down the channel' but trudged towards the Canary Islands, Azores and back. The sorties were 22 hours, not 24 as the takeoff was the last event one day and the return the first event of the next. We had the bomb bay fuel tank fitted, an 'enhanced' crew and flew at endurance speed which was more uncomfortable than normal! Oh, and lots of pies!
I too didn't understand why we didn't just fly down to St Mawgan and return the next day, but then we did have the intrepid (maybe most junior?) reporter aboard to scupper that idea.

[rvusa]

212man. There wasn't a turboprop version. There was, however the addition of 2 Viper turbojets, but much later than this.

[reynoldsno1]

I think 212man was making a wry statement. The Vipers burnt Avgas ...

[Ormeside28]

Dear Steve, if you will put your address on prune I will send you some papers. Thank you

[Stitchbitch]

Not too long ago one of the Flight Engineers on BBMF was ex-Shack. Might make for an interesting comparison Shack Vs Lanc.

[Steve Bond]

Thanks chaps. Ormeside28 I have sent you a private message with my address; I look forward to seeing the papers!

[stilton]

I've enjoyed the whole series Steve, is there a 'Canberra Boys' planned ?

[messybeast]

Stilton.

According to Amazon, "Canberra Boys" is due out on 31st May 2017.

[brakedwell]

Steve, how's about a Britannia Boys in the not too distant future?

[Shack37]

Of the six aircraft types that I flew in the RAF the Shackleton was the one on which I was the most unhappy. But then, it might just have been Ballykelly.
Lancman
"Most unhappy" suggests you were also unhappy on the other types. Sorry to hear that.
I personally was really happy at BK.

[Shackman]

Few reminiscences inbound

Shackman

[Steve Bond]

Brakedwell,

Who knows.........

[stilton]

Thanks for that MB, great timing !

[ozleckie]

I was part of a travelling ground crew on the delivery flight of a new Mk2 Ph3 to 205 Sqn. We travelled via St Mawgan to Luqa,then Kano in N Nigeria, Nairobi,Mauritius, Gan and Changi. It took 8 days. I can remember major details but nitty gritty a bit vague.

[Lancman]

Perhaps a little off-topic but you've mis-interpreted my comment Shack37. Perhaps I should have written “enjoyed least.” Here's my list of preference for military aircraft.

1. Lancaster. Dual control, maritime reconnaissance. Lots for the Flight Engineer to do.

2. Hastings. Multi-purpose. Plenty to do. Good view of the world rolling by 8,000' or less below. Take-off and landing points not necessarily the same.

3. Nimrod. Very interesting tasks. More comfortable than the Shackleton.

4. Britannia. Technically interesting.

5. Belfast. Taking interesting loads to interesting places.

6. Shackleton.* Noisy, uncomfortable, and flew at uncomfortable heights.

* Ballykelly. Appalling accommodation in 1952, rotten weather. Kinloss rather better.

[Steve Bond]

Ozleckie and Lancman. Please check your private messages, I would like to chat with you please.

[Shack37]

Perhaps a little off-topic but you've mis-interpreted my comment Shack37. Perhaps I should have written “enjoyed least.” Here's my list of preference for military aircraft.

1. Lancaster. Dual control, maritime reconnaissance. Lots for the Flight Engineer to do.
2. Hastings. Multi-purpose. Plenty to do. Good view of the world rolling by 8,000' or less below. Take-off and landing points not necessarily the same.
3. Nimrod. Very interesting tasks. More comfortable than the Shackleton.
4. Britannia. Technically interesting.
5. Belfast. Taking interesting loads to interesting places.
6. Shackleton.* Noisy, uncomfortable, and flew at uncomfortable heights.
* Ballykelly. Appalling accommodation in 1952, rotten weather. Kinloss rather better.
1. A Shack by any other name!
2. T.O. and landing comment can also be applied to Shackleton!
3. Similar tasks. can´t comment on comfort.
4. But didn´t last long however.
5. As did the Shackleton!
6. Hence the famous Ben Twitch comments. ISK not exactly tropical. Can´t comment on 1952 accommodation, before my time.;)


Opinions can differ. All the best Lancman.:ok:

[Haraka]

One Ben Twitch story from c.1952 was when an (unnamed , Canadian?) pilot delivered a replacement Shack from St Eval to BallyKelly. Said aircraft appeared through the mist,flying around Ben Twitch on it's ear hole before rolling out on to the main.
Subsequent Interview "endangering aircraft and crew etc etc ." was cut short by plaintiff pointing out that there was no Crew. Pilot apparently wandered back doing flight doing Eng panel work etc. himself whilst in transit. ( Dad was on 42 Sqn at the time, I was a Quarters' rat) .

[Kitbag]

Having just visited Duxford for the first time in many years I noted that the MR3 in the Restoration Hangar has been turned round revealing these odd boxy, turrety things under the rear fuselage in the vicinity of the tailplane:
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa154/Kitweston/DSC_0055%202.jpg

They both appear identical from ground level, can anyone satisfy my curiosity as to what they are please?

[Pontius Navigator]

Strike Cameras?

[Ubehagligpolitiker]

They are the F126 (medium level vertical) and F135 (low level mainly used for attack assessment) cameras

[Wyler]

I flew up to Iceland on a Shack in 1982. We arrived on 4 Jul to hold 'Q' for a week as the E3s were away. I was holding waiting for a course.
We did a flyby and then landed. The whole place was alive as the 4 Jul celebrations were in full swing. 'Are you from a museum'? we were asked on numerous occasions.
Still, the beer was cold and the women warm.......................:E

[Shackman]

wrt the cameras, they were 'controlled' by the pneumatic system, so as the air pressure dropped so would they. I think they were removed on the AEW, but certainly fitted on all the MR 2's and 3's.

[Kitbag]

They are the F126 (medium level vertical) and F135 (low level mainly used for attack assessment) cameras

Thanks all, I had discounted optical cameras because the circular portions appear to be quite opaque now, whether through degradation (are they glass?) or just the dust of decades of storage.

[Lancman]

www.avroshackleton.com/shakpond.html gives a pretty good impression of Shackleton operations.

[Steve Bond]

Thanks Lancman, that is a very useful link.

[chopper2004]

A tech question did the Shack ever have LLTV or early generation IR detection optics when operated in the MR role?

Cheers

[pmills575]

When I was on the Orange Harvest bench at St.Mawgan I, along with another fitter was sent to RRE at Pershore. There was a MK11 that had been fitted with an IR Linescan and they had had to modify the OH installation. The Linescan position was set up in the galley, the bunks being removed along with all of the equipment located beneath it. The detection head and associated electronics was in the bomb aimers position.

I'm fairly sure that this was intended to go to 205 Sqdn in Singapore for a special op. In fact the aircraft came through SM a few weeks later. As it turned out the OH didn't work, a cable made locally was faulty. We were amused when the foreman apologised that it would take 30 minutes to make new one because it was pay day. We were lucky if a similar cable could be obtained under three months. I can't remember the aircraft serial no. but I sure that it can be found in Chris Ashworths book. I suspect that there are ex 205 guys who probably remember this one off fit.

pm575

[Milt]

January 1957 was a short flying month, starting with yet another Navigation Bombing System test flight in a Valiant. By now I was rapidly becoming the resident operational expert on the Mk10 autopilot and its coupling units for Nav/Bombing and automatic landing approaches. The Beverley was also receiving my attention with autopilot trials.

In January I flew a Mk3 Shackleton for the first time. Having previously flown some flights in a Mk2 Shackleton, it was interesting to fly the later model which had been fitted with a nose wheel. The cockpit had changed quite a bit, as had the fit out of much classified anti-submarine equipment. My mission was to drop some bombs at the Imber range for clearance purposes.

On my return to Boscombe Down I became intent on achieving a smooth touchdown and for some reason not clear to me I translated myself mentally into a Mk2 version with a tail wheel. Following touch down on the main wheels in a tail down attitude I waited for the non-existent tail wheel to contact the runway. Instead the nose started to come down against my control back pressure. With the control almost fully back I yelled a warning to the crew to brace themselves, as we were going over on our nose. As soon as I had yelled the warning I realised what was happening and could have bitten out my tongue for having been so foolish. The nose wheel hit hard on the runway with the crew asking whether the emergency was over yet. To the delight of the crew, I bought beers all round in the mess that evening.

[Steve Bond]

Thanks for the story pm575,please do get in touch with any more.

Steve

[Shackman]

pm575 - re that fitting. What year was this done?
Steve - it may have had something to do with one of the ops I mentioned.

[oxenos]

Joe Ashworth's book says WL748 was fitted with IR "during 67" and sent to 205 in the October, returning in Jan 69 with the equipment being removed in the June.
I flew it several times on 205, but the only trial I was due to fly on was cancelled at the last minute. The trials involved Gurkhas being sent to light small cooking fires in the jungle, to see if they could be detected through the tree canopy.
The Malayan emergency and Indonesian confrontation had not long finished, and the Vietnamese War was in full flow, so the idea of finding insurgents in the jungle when they stopped for a brew was attractive if a little unsporting.
Clearly not everything stops for tea.

[Alan Mills]

I remember the equipment on 205, there were only a few AeOps briefed on its use, and they kept it all very close to their chests. (knowledge is power!) There was some success, but I think the coordination with the ground proved difficult.

[Steve Bond]

Thanks to everyone who has contacted me, it has now been decided that 'Shackleton Boys' will go to two volumes! Great stories coming in, but still plenty of room for more, so please don't be shy!

[Alber Ratman]

Talk to the Groundcrew, not just a SEngO..

[Steve Bond]

I am talking to a great many groundcrew.

[Steve Bond]

LAST CALL FOR NEW CONTRIBUTORS!

Thanks to the tremendous response to calls for Shackleton stories, there will now be two volumes of 'Shackleton Boys', with the first planned for publication in the late summer of 2018. There is still time for new contributions, so if you have been thinking about getting in touch, please do it!

Thanks to all who have helped out so far.

Steve

[scorpion63]

They are the F126 (medium level vertical) and F135 (low level mainly used for attack assessment) cameras

F135 and F126 are Nimrod camera fit, Shackleton was F97 night camera and F24 day strike camera also F117 hand held from beam window. Night camera was illuminated by photo flashes ejected from a rack on stbd side.

[Shackman]

Re flares/flashes. IIRC the photo flashes were fired from a 6 cartridge dispenser in the roof aft of the galley, whilst flares (which burned for a bit longer) were fired from the 3 x 6 dispensers on the stbd. There was a rack alongside the dispensers which held (again IIRC) 124 flares and 18 flashes. The photo flashes were nasty little beasts with quite a recoil, and it was not uncommon to find the dispenser coming loose from its mounting in the roof, although I don't think any flashes were fired into the fuselage.

[Rossian]

.....were bloody lethal. The tube was about 9" long and after detonation by the firing cap the flash material pulled a rip strip and initiated the "flash" as it exited the launcher.

When I was on the Shack MOTU I was the radar operator one night and had just completed a run over the towed target when the door beside me opened and an ashen faced siggy held out a partially fired flash "It didn't go off boss".
It was teetering on falling out of the tube, the possible consequences of which gives me sweaty palms even now.

I VERY gently prodded it further back into the tube and told him to drop it out of the flare chute (hole in the floor). As soon as it hit the airflow it detonated with a frightening bang.
Thereafter I ALWAYS counted the bangs as flashes went off to be sure that they'd all worked as advertised.

After a long session of "flares and flashes" for pilot bombing, the back end of the a/c gave a good imitation of the gun deck of Victory at Trafalgar with the reek of cordite which clung to one's flying suit for ages.

The Ancient Mariner

[Rossian]

......when used for disposing of the ashes of someone's loved one. Basically NOT A GOOD IDEA.
The first one I experienced was on a really rough day off the NI coast near Rathlin (some family connection). For some reason we had to have the full funeral service conducted by the Padre in full rig. As the service proceeded the liturgy was interrupted by prolonged retching from the padre (he forgot how to switch his mic off) which triggered further retching further down the fuselage amongst the listeners. He then came to the "dust to dust etc etc" and indicated to empty the urn down the flare chute. The back draught filled the aft area with the earthly remains of whoever it was. Cue much coughing spluttering and spitting of said earthly remains and the whole thing descended into a black farce. Padre had to be laid down on a bunk to recover as we hot footed it back to BKY the get the hoovers out.
The procedure was suspended for a while until a better way was found.

The Ancient Mariner

[Rossian]

.......when asked to it from a Nimrod which also had a version of the "hole in the floor".
I used to ask the flight eng to put on about a couple of pounds of positive pressure differential to overcome the indraught and always had the ashes in a paper bag which shot out very cleanly and if family were watching on the ground they could see a grey puff appear below the aircraft as the bag burst in the airflow.
Later still a way was found to use a sonobuoy casing and the canister and contents went out of one of the fixed launchers.
I always found it a slightly impersonal procedure which I was happy to do if it made the family feel better.

Until..... I pickled the ashes of my best man, Crint, in beside the radar buoy in D801. That DID get to me.

The Ancient Mariner

[Shackman]

Rossian,
Were we on the same MOTU course then? I remember a similar occurrence with one of those flashes.

Memories of Crint and ashes, and all you said about the hole in the floor. He first had the 'honour' of sending the ashes through the hole in the floor necessitating a quick return to Changi and shower and change of flying suit. About six months later we did another one and he decided it would be better to throw them out of the beam window - well it would have been if we had closed the cockpit sliding windows; this time the whole crew (and aircraft) got the benefit.

Incidentally it was not much better on rotary - it didn't matter whether you were in the hover or moving forward, you still got grey dust everywhere.

[Pontius Navigator]

Deviation: on the Nimrod the launcher gate valve was opened and the ashes dropped through the Rotary launcher.

Later, in major servicing, there arose a question on why there was so much dust in the floor space below the rotary launcher. That, no doubt, is why a sonobuoy case was used.

[Wensleydale]

The 8 Sqn method with ashes was to wrap the ashes in a rolled paper chart which was loosely taped. The whole "tube" was sent down the flare chute in the floor - the tube then disintegrated in the airflow and the ashes continued their descent to the Firth rather than blowing back into the aircraft. One Padre looked at this package and hoped that the tube blew open before we caused the "ecclesiastical equivalent of a bird strike" below us. The other snag with this method was to ensure that we made a big enough tube to hold the ashes, otherwise it was possible to have an overflow of ash in the crewroom before flight.


The 8 Sqn album contains a series of photographs from the dropping of the ashes of an ex- pilot leader on the Sqn, "Beerie" Wier. There are photographs of the pilot leader on his last flight in various positions on the aircraft before the service. I seem to recall that the crew wondered whether it was politic to claim rations for him, and a compromise was reached with the Catering Squadron by which a couple of extra Dairy Cream Sponges were consumed in his memory!

[PPRuNeUser0139]

It was the much-beloved Beery who inadvertently caused a snowstorm in the beam area once during the disposal of ashes.
The ashes were being poured manually down the flare chute when Beery slid open the cockpit side window to knock the dottle out of his pipe against the fuselage.. causing the mother of all reverse air flows.
When we landed, the crew chief came on board and said the beam area looked like a farkin' Christmas grotto..

[Alan Mills]

We used to fly with a beam window open, the flash misfires departed from there. There was an instruction to tape up the flash cartridge, and return it, nobody obeyed. I heard the story of Ray Hifle seeing a flash unit about to fall in during a firing, and he held it in place until the end of the firing and then lowered it into the aircraft.

[Steve Bond]

'Shackleton Boys' volume 1 will be launched on 1st and 2nd September 2018 at the Newark Air Museum. All are welcome!

[Plugsy]

J/t propulsion fitter, BK 1968,H & R, nightshift, sent to do 50hrs? exhaust plug change. Fell asleep leaning on the exhaust pipe. An SAR was called, It was the kite I was working on !!! Cpl Davey Hamilton was sent to find out why service book still open !!! Davey christened me Plugsy amongst other expletives!!!
Then Majunga double detachment 1969, 204 Sqn ? 19 years old, enough said!!!
Then December 1969, 203 Sqn? Sharjah Mardet, The burial of Coastal Command, a sad occassion, I was the youngest groundcrew there, helped carry our coffin with Cpl Jimmy McDowell (a legend), was left to me to fill in our mock grave being the youngest whilst the rest legged it to the NAAFI for the Wake!!!.
Then 1970, 205 sqn Changi, amazing.One trip I was travelling engine fitter bringing Shack MK2 back to St.Mawgan. Changi, Gan, Jeddah, Malta Gib St. Mawgan.12 days in total. 4 hrs out of Malta engineer called me up, No 3 prop peeing oil, we agreed feather it, 3hrs out engineer called me up, No 2 all guages going haywire, we agreed restart 3 and observe ,feather No2. SAR shack from Malta called out to follow us in. 2hrs out the call "Fire Fire" an actuator on the radar dome ? had caught fire. So into Malta @ night on 2 plus a dodgy No 3. The downside of all this was the major snagging was engines for me, so I never did get down the "Gut" with my old BK cronies now in Malta on 203 Sqn.
Great days, 4 great years, !!!! Rock on Shack beys !!!
Plugsy.

[Linedog]

Ahhh, the Gut. Dec -75 with 8 sux........... :-)

[Steve Bond]

An email on its way to you Plugsy - need to chat with you about 'Shackleton Boys' volume 2!!

[brakedwell]

Ahhh, the Gut. Dec -75 with 8 sux........... :-)

The Gut
I remember a “young lady” joining our (Hastings) crew in the Egyptian Queen with the words: “You aircrew all the same, big tickers, small prickers and pay by cheque.”

[Shack37]

J/t propulsion fitter, BK 1968,H & R, nightshift, sent to do 50hrs? exhaust plug change. Fell asleep leaning on the exhaust pipe. An SAR was called, It was the kite I was working on !!! Cpl Davey Hamilton was sent to find out why service book still open !!! Davey christened me Plugsy amongst other expletives!!!

Plugsy you have an email and your post has been passed on to some "old friends":E

[wingnutsdg]

Hi Plugsy, I see you are in Thailand near Pattaya. maybe I should say "Sawaddee khrob, sabaii dee rue?". You may remember me as "Horace" from Ballykelly and various detachments.