gibraltar

[mansp]

So, what was the story today then, gib runway closed, hearing bomb scare, local police stopped a Hercules taking off? What's the real story?

[On_Loan]

Tense standoff as RGP blocks military plane in delicate jurisdiction wrangle ? Gibraltar Chronicle (http://chronicle.gi/2017/02/tense-standoff-as-rgp-blocks-military-plane-in-delicate-jurisdiction-wrangle/)

[Wander00]

On different "Gib" related topic, I was interested to read that Meteorological Sqn Halifaxes operated from Gib into the 50s - and we did not preserve one! I had thought them all chopped up at the end of the war

[ShotOne]

It was an A400; turf war between Gib and MOD police. Person on board wanted for questioning by both was eventually left in Gib.

[Wander00]

Primacy of civilian police powers always wins, well, usually

[Buster Hyman]

Wow. Literally caught between a rock & a hard place!!!

[Pontius Navigator]

Wonder if this will be picked up by UK media. The computer seizure is interesting and suggests something other than the not unusual D&D.

[Trim Stab]

Interesting that the MOD were less than entirely cooperative with the RGP.

[ian16th]

On different "Gib" related topic, I was interested to read that Meteorological Sqn Halifaxes operated from Gib into the 50s - and we did not preserve one! I had thought them all chopped up at the end of the war

There was a guy in the Johannesburg branch of the RAFA who was a National Service Pilot on the Gib Halifax's. Circa 1948 I believe.

[ricardian]

Tense standoff as RGP blocks military plane in delicate jurisdiction wrangle ? Gibraltar Chronicle (http://chronicle.gi/2017/02/tense-standoff-as-rgp-blocks-military-plane-in-delicate-jurisdiction-wrangle/)
Forces TV report (http://forces.tv/38537244)

[Fareastdriver]

I was interested to read that Meteorological Sqn Halifaxes operated from Gib into the 50s

The last Halifaxes to be operated by the RAF. The were disbanded shortly after 202 Sqn replaced its Halifaxes with Hastings at Aldergrove.

[piesupper]

Bottom line: Gibraltar 1 MoD 0

[NutLoose]

Interesting that the MOD were less than entirely cooperative with the RGP. If you are on board a military aircraft are you not in effect then on sovereign territory?

As for the none cooperation, it's probably because they realised they would have to pay rates or whatever they are now for his extended stay.

[RedhillPhil]

Aren't you on sovereign territory in Gib or has that changed since I was living there in 1969?

[NutLoose]

Found it,

2.2.2 International Status. Military aircraft are "state aircraft" within the
meaning of the Convention on International Civil Aviation of 1944 (the
"Chicago Convention"), and, like warships, enjoy sovereign immunity from
foreign search and inspection. Subject to the right of transit passage, archipelagic
sea lanes passage, and entry in distress (see paragraph 2.5.1), state aircraft may not
enter national airspace (see paragraph 1.8i or land in the sovereign territory of
another nation without its authorization. 5 Foreign officials may not board the aircraft without the consent of the aircraft commander. Should the aircraft
commander fail to certify compliance with local customs, immigration or
quarantine requirements, the aircraft may be directed to leave the territory and
national airspace of that nation immediately.16https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=22&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjhg_OYxIPSAhUIDMAKHUFbCVc4FBAWCCcwAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.usnwc.edu%2Fgetattachment%2Fc838542c-31f5-41a0-beb0-f3a7296d03ab%2FChapter-II.aspx&usg=AFQjCNGM9mrT_-b-95PeM3XYmjJmlF2nNA&bvm=bv.146496531,d.ZGg

(dated 8 Mar 1983) But I wouldn't have thought it had changed, so surely the Gibbo plods had no jurisdiction. By the fact they possibly removed him under duress, IE they prevented the aircraft departing, and possibly hence broke the law in doing so, would that not effect any case they may have against him?

[PDR1]

That might apply if the aeroplane had been on foreign soil, but isn't Gibraltar British soil?

PDR

[NutLoose]

yes, but doesn't Gibraltar as a territory produce and oversee its own laws?

[PDR1]

Possibly, but we would need a legal expert (which I am certainly not) to advise what features would be required for the aeroplane to "qualify" as a non-Gibratar jurisdiction for arrest purposes.

To be honest it just sounds like a willy-waviung contest between civil and military authorities. If so the owners of the waving willies (on both sides) should be sent to bed with no supper and the matter should be quietly laid to rest IMHO.

PDR

[ORAC]

If you are on board a military aircraft are you not in effect then on sovereign territory No.

The point was tested. Few years back when an Israeli general was onboard an aircraft at Heathrow and the plods were waiting to arrest him when he disembarked. The crew got word and he remained on board, the plods stayed outside and he went home on the return flight.

The judge who issued the warrant subsequently then ripped several new arseholes in the plods for their failure to board and arrest.

Keeping the peace? The El Al flight and the Israeli army officer | The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/keeping-the-peace-the-el-al-flight-and-the-israeli-army-officer-784407.html)

[Just This Once...]

The El Al aircraft was just a regular passenger service and was not a 'State Aircraft'.

[Heathrow Harry]

It can't be an International Aircraft under the Chicago Convention as both Gib & the UK are under the British Crown - same as the Isle of Man or the FI - and the highest court is the UK Supreme Court sitting in London

[ImageGear]

I may yet stand correction however I suspect that Gibraltar has a similar relationship to the UK Government (MOD) as Jersey in that their allegiance is directly to the crown with matters fiscal and possibly judicial remaining under internal control.

Imagegear

[Pontius Navigator]

I see the Daily Fail is not alone at the pinnacle of fake news reporting:

Gibraltar police stop RAF plane taking off at Gibraltar International Airport | Daily Star (http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/586775/Gibraltar-RAF-Police-Ministry-of-Defence-Royal-Gibraltar-Police-Chief-Justice-Arrest)

Or who nicked the propellers?

[Pontius Navigator]

The computer seizure is interesting and suggests something other than the not unusual D&D.
I see that Daily Fail is saying:

The man is suspected of a sex offence,GBC reports.

[Wycombe]

Don't understand why the road across the runway had to be closed for so long - if report in Gib Chronicle of "a couple of hours" is correct?

Unless Atlas was at the threshold and threatening to depart without clearance, which presumably wasn't the case.

If it was a couple of hours, it must have been chaos both sides of the airfield and the border.

[Tankertrashnav]

Interesting that the MOD were less than entirely cooperative with the RGP.

A case of truth imitating fiction. Just about every TV cop series has an episode where our hero - Frost/Morse/Foyle etc has to investigate an offence at a nearby Army/ RAF base and runs into an obstructive military who refuse to cooperate and are invariably made to look like total prats.