Taking friends up for a joy ride

[Fonsini]

I've been meaning to seek opinions on this story from my dim and distant yoof. Many years ago a (then) teenage friend of mine was woken early one morning by his father and bundled into a car with a family friend who was an officer in the RAF. I'm not sure exactly where he was taken but he was treated to a private flight up the coast in the back seat of a Hawk, I seem to recall him mentioning that they overflew Blackpool Tower (so Valley then ?).

I was of course immensely envious, especially as he wasn't even interested in aviation, while it was all I ever thought or talked about.

So the question is - did the RAF allow such things, or would this have been one of those under the radar deals perhaps due to the officer's seniority ?

[pulse1]

I too was immensely jealous when a good friend of mine took another friend up in a Hunter at Yeovilton and exceeded Mach 1. Apparently he qualified for this treat because he was a school teacher. Some years later I managed to get him to give me a trip in a JP5 because I now qualified as a civilian gliding instructor with the ATC. Not quite the same but great fun.

The friend who got the Hunter trip was not particularly interested in flying which made my jealousy more justified. He had only ever flown in an Auster and, when invited to take the controls in the Hunter, he applied the same control movements he would have done in the Auster. He then unwittingly discovered the roll rate of a fast jet and frightened himself silly.

[Arclite01]

No, No and No

The guy is an absolute fantasist.

Arc

[longer ron]

Hmmmm
At a certain airfield where I used to work,a visiting RAF Hawk came in one day,our usual VAS guy was away - so I 'saw him in' .
He was closely followed in by a Tiger Moth,the Tiggie pilot was the Hawk pilots father.
Father was then taken for a ride in the Hawk :)
Seemed to work out OK and the Hawk home base were none the wiser !

[KenV]

Then there's the story of the glider pilot who took HIMSELF up for a joyride in a single seat A-4 Skyhawk.

LINK (http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/the-tale-of-when-a-marine-mechanic-stole-an-a-4-skyhawk-1745015819)

[Just This Once...]

So the question is - did the RAF allow such things, or would this have been one of those under the radar deals perhaps due to the officer's seniority ?

Yes it is possible, but only with the requisite approvals (including medical) and authorisation (which is held at quite a high level). There are even guidelines on family members flying together when there are dependants.

During my time I have flown with my wife, flown in the same formation as my wife and, quite independently of me, she also flew in a Harrier T10.

The rules and regulations surrounding such activity are there for a reason and I cannot imagine a situation where someone would breach them or even attempt to do anything 'under the radar' - military aviation is just not organised in a way where this would be possible.

[Arclite01]

JTO

You put more detail around it than I did but you were spot on.

No way that a ride over the sea, on a bang seat would ever be entertained without authority and a medical and a briefing on dinghy drill etc

IMHO

Arc

[DirtyProp]

Then there's the story of the glider pilot who took HIMSELF up for a joyride in a single seat A-4 Skyhawk.

Damn! :eek:
At least he didn't get shot like that guy that borrowed a tank and took it for a spin on the LA highways.

[Lyneham Lad]

No way that a ride over the sea, on a bang seat would ever be entertained without authority and a medical and a briefing on dinghy drill etc

But what about 'needs must'? As a Sgt ATechA at Valley on Gnat Rects in the Gaydon Hangar, I was called into the office on Friday lunchtime to be told I was being sent to Macrahanish asap to sort out one of our Gnats (XT....) that was there on a landaway exercise. The student pilot had managed during his turnround checks to top up the hyd reservoir with OX-38 - doh! Instructions had been passed (supposedly) that he was to remain there someone arrived to drain, flush & refill. That would be me...
Mode of transport? Back seat, of course. Never having flown in a fast-jet, and being aware of some height / leg length restriction in Gnats, I queried the safety aspect (6' 3" with very long legs) and whether or not I might find myself leaving my knee caps behind should the worst happen. The response left no doubt - " go get yourself kitted out". The office window looked out over the pan and as the conversation came to a halt, I asked to be reminded of the a/c number and on hearing it I said (with relief) "problem solved, Sir. It has just taxied past!

[just another jocky]

It's far less easy to take a non-military mate flying now than it used to be. Limited airframes/flying time, DH appetite for risk to 3rd parties etc etc. It all counts against it happening today.


However, in days gone by I have taken my wife, son and several good friends flying, all non-military.

[Pontius Navigator]

At the risk of annoying Salad Dodger, a Vulcan in to Fairford gave a number of KC135 crews quick trips. At Goose Canadian nurses were given a close look over the aircraft :)

More recently ANS families were given air experience in Jet Streams.

Most frighteningly, not flying I admit, but Mrs PN was given an SMG to fire
She hit the target, except it wasn't hers

[just another jocky]

PN, it's always been easier to give military folk trips, especially so in larger ac, even if they were not British.

[Lordflasheart]

but Mrs PN was given an SMG to fireWith your (ahem) chronology, you're lucky it wasn't a STEN ....

"I say Chief, it's jammed ...."

..............

[Pontius Navigator]

Lfh, true, we had Sten in ITS. I had a misfire, the next round cleared the misfire down the barrel and itself through the breech. Fortunately I was on the right of the line.

[BEagle]

A naval friend of my late father fixed up a trip in a fast jet for me when I was 15... (yes, there really were fast jets back then ;) ).

But I was a CCF cadet - unfortunately a pongo as the school didn't have any other sections.

The jet was a Sea Vixen FAW2 - and the occasion was the Farnborough Air Show. An unbelievable experience when the RAF wouldn't even sanction an AEF Chipmunk trip for a non-ATC CCF/RAF cadet.

As for Sten guns, we had a couple in the school armoury plus blank firing barrels which had a restriction to provide gas pressure to work the mechanism - one of which had broken. One day I went with another CCF chum to collect the repaired barrel from the local gunsmiths - the look on the locals' faces when my chum produced a Sten gun from his brief case to fit the newly repaired barrel was hilarious. We took it back to school and tested it on the lower sports fields, but after a brief burst of fire the barrel failed again.

The joys of the 1960s!

[Chinny Crewman]

Whilst JTO and Arc are quite correct in that it would never be entertained I think they rather miss the point. Logistically yes this would have been possible 'under the radar', morally would the individual have taken the risk? Reading some comments on here and going on personal experience then yes.

[longer ron]

I used to know 2 almost identical brothers - one in the forces - the other a civvy.
Both glider pilots,the serving brother arranged a fast jet flight for himself - and his brother came to visit the airfield on the same day - well who would have known the difference :) ? I would have struggled to tell them apart.
If something can be done we can all rest assured that it has been done.
Slightly more difficult these days of course !Most things are more difficult.

[KiloB]

And then there was the SAAF Pilot a couple of years back who took a civvie for a Pilatus ride. The individual spotted a yellow and black handle, wondered what it did, and pulled it!!

[NutLoose]

Ever remember the Christmas tale published in air clues in the I learnt from that section, in which in order to get a band for the officers mess Christmas ball a junior officer agreed to take them flying unofficially in an Anson, which on being discovered was told on pain of death if anything happened to the Anson he would be well and truly screwed.
He took off with the band and all went well until landing when the gear wouldn't come down. Cutting to the result, on finals he chopped an engine then flicked the prop around level on the starter, repeating the process with the other he dead sticked it onto the runway coming to rest on the wheels that sit semi retracted in the bay's, the groundcrew raised it, pulled the gear down and then pushed the undamaged aircraft into the hangar.

[Arm out the window]

Seems it can be a whole lot easier to get a flight as a civvy if you are some kind of 'celebrity' - happens, or used to at least, down on our side of the globe quite a bit. A smiley-faced photo of the individual in question on the front page of the newspaper was seen as a good bit of PR, although not necessarily the used spew bag when they were back on the ground!

[longer ron]

KiloB
And then there was the SAAF Pilot a couple of years back who took a civvie for a Pilatus ride. The individual spotted a yellow and black handle, wondered what it did, and pulled it!!

LOL - our pax strap ins always included a strong reminder not to touch anything yellow and black stripes or red.

[Pontius Navigator]

Nutloose, the pilot was not a junior officer, the Ansons were guarded jealously by the professional pilot mafia. Seriously though my first flight was with a Fg Off Fitzsimonds. My next was with Master Pilot Payne. The other pilot I remember was Flt My Harvey Hilliard the SFSO. 25 years later I flew with his son.

That Air Clues article was of a Master Pilot but I can't recall where the Annie was from.

[Pontius Navigator]

AotW, quite. Our Media Ops had a number of "free" tickets for Typhoon flights. Thomas Harding, late Defence Correspondent to the Daily Telegraph was one such but when he displeased their Airships his ticket was allocated elsewhere.

[Airbubba]

Seems it can be a whole lot easier to get a flight as a civvy if you are some kind of 'celebrity' - happens, or used to at least, down on our side of the globe quite a bit. A smiley-faced photo of the individual in question on the front page of the newspaper was seen as a good bit of PR, although not necessarily the used spew bag when they were back on the ground!

Those celebrity flights still occur in the U.S. and have been going on for a long time.

For example, you can see who got a ride in the SR-71 in the Staff and VIP sections at the bottom of this sorted list:

SR-71 Crew and Riders (http://www.sr71.us/Supp_BBook_Pg2.htm)

A friend had the honor of taking John Glenn up in a B-2, I believe it was in the late 1990's, early in the program. He said it was somewhat low profile, perhaps because Senator Glenn had been an early opponent of the aircraft due to his skepticism of the cost benefits of stealth technology.

A few politicians, including Senator Glenn and Florida Congressman Bill Nelson rode on Space Shuttle flights. The 1986 Challenger disaster pretty much ended the VIP astronaut program. :sad:

[Tashengurt]

I remember Hazel Irvine (ing?) Going for a trip in an F3 for children in need.
TA at RAF SAM used to take his wife up quite regularly although I believe she had some quasi- research based role?

[Fonsini]

Ever remember the Christmas tale published in air clues in the I learnt from that section, in which in order to get a band for the officers mess Christmas ball a junior officer agreed to take them flying unofficially in an Anson, which on being discovered was told on pain of death if anything happened to the Anson he would be well and truly screwed.
He took off with the band and all went well until landing when the gear wouldn't come down. Cutting to the result, on finals he chopped an engine then flicked the prop around level on the starter, repeating the process with the other he dead sticked it onto the runway coming to rest on the wheels that sit semi retracted in the bay's, the groundcrew raised it, pulled the gear down and then pushed the undamaged aircraft into the hangar.
That is the type of story that makes this site such a pleasure. Thanks for sharing, and that's some impressive piloting.

[kaitakbowler]

PN. T'was a Master and Scampton IIRC. Annie at Scampton my first flight as an Air Cadet, 1962.

PM

[Tankertrashnav]

A bit of thread drift, but when I was at Marham, the Lightning OCU came to us for several months while Coltishall was having its runway resurfaced. Each squadron had a list of blokes who wanted a ride in a T4 should the opportunity arise. The theory was the flight would go to the the bloke on the top of the list.

One day I was in the crew room when the phone rang. "Anyone available for a flight in a T4?" I considered finding the list for about 2 seconds, then said "I'm on my way"! Brilliant 40 minute flight - the bit I remember most was 0-35,000' in around 4 minutes - about 14 minutes quicker than a Victor K1!

[Kubarque]

Chuck Yeager, in his autobiography bragged about taking one (or more?) of his children across the US in a B-25 in the late 1940s. On a later occasion he flew his boy on his lap in an F-84 from Edwards AFB to Palm Springs Municipal Airport. His wife was waiting on the ramp at Palm Springs and Chuck lifted the boy over the side to her with the motor running and then returned to Eddy solo. Things were different then.

[CONSO]

FWIW -for many years now - including recently- in the U.S- the Blue Angels give Journalist-PR rides in number 7 F-18 ( two seater ) to at least one in virtually every town they do airshows. They video the whole thing ( no doubt editing out the barf bag issue ) Quite spectacular when on takeoff- they reach about 50 foot altitude and then rack it straight up to about 10 k feet. The view looking backwards over the helmet of the journalist says it all..

And yes- in the seattle area they go out over the ocean and sometimes exceed Mach 1 ..

[Dan Winterland]

I recall as a JP student at Cranwell in the mid 80s, the families day entertainment features a QFI's wives taxying competition.

Can't imagine that happening these days.

[India Four Two]

The joys of the 1960s! In the early sixties, my Dad, my younger brother and I were members of a rifle club that shot twice a week on the "Miniature Range" at the local TA drill hall. Several times a year, we took the club's .303s to Bisley and shot on the Century Range.

Once a year, the local TA that we were affiliated with (we were a "Home Guard Rifle Club"), invited us to their annual shooting competition at Ash Ranges. Since this was a two-day event, they "lent" us L1A1s for the weekend! I remember having four of them stacked in the hall cupboard at home.

On the Saturday morning, some of us went to Bisley to "zero-in" our new toys. Apart from some strange looks, no one queried why a bunch of scruffy civilians were wandering around with semi-automatic Army rifles.

I cannot imagine the reaction these days!

[noflynomore]

Always easier in the helo world. A friend of mine has taken his father and others mountain flying all over Wales in Jungie SeaKings and tales of picking up nurses etc for jollies/banyans are legion.
I daresay Pusser was a bit more relaxed about this sort of thing though.

[Exrigger]

During 18 Sqns 25th anniversary celebration, it was authorised for wives to go on a flight in the Chinook, I still have the certificate somewhere and picture of them in flying suits walking out to the aircraft.

After moving from Gutersloh to St Athan an 18 Sqn Chinook arrived and I recognised the crew, while I was talking to them I jokingly asked if there was any chance of a trip for myself and others from the hangar, quite surprised when it was agreed. A load of us jumped on and as I still had my flying kit (I was a rotortuner) decided to be a poser and wear it, great trip and well recieved by the St Athan guys as they don't get out much, only problem was the Flight Sgt was not impressed as I forgot to ask permission to take time off.

One of my best flights was the last Hunter at Honington, I was given a flight with an experienced QFI, and I think I have asked before if anyone on here might have been, or know who the pilot was and aircraft number, as I regret now not recording those details, something I had not done on any of my flights in aircraft, like the Vulcan one at Scampton.

[Bill Macgillivray]

We used to have the "Goddess Night" at Middle Wallop in the "90's" when wives/girl friends were shown round and, if willing, taken for a flight in the AAC Chipmunks and "lesser" choppers. Then all to the pub for beer and curry, great days!

Bill

[Heathrow Harry]

"would ever be entertained without authority"

but if you don't ask "authority"....... or they turn a blind eye

Wouldn't happen these days but 30-40 years ago.............

[Fonsini]

I wonder what the absolute minimum "bang seat drill" would be that's considered acceptable ?

One of my favourite comments was from a T4 front seater who advised his passenger that in the event of an emergency he would loudly announce "EJECT, EJECT, EJECT" whereupon the passenger was to pull "this handle", and if he failed to do so the second message would be the words "Follow Me" written on the bottom of his boots.

[Jumping_Jack]

I managed to get a low level nav flight from Chiv in a Hawk, I think it was based on my being an OTC officer cadet, hence the 'military' link (not that we in the OTC were terribly military!):ok:

[Dougie M]

During the 80s it was deemed acceptable for wives to "indulge" on certain routes with the Hercules. This decision was welcomed and even encouraged by Squadron "training sorties" with the wives to Jersey for the day or Cyprus for a weekend. Some outfits managed things like a Caribbean trainer but had to pay for hotel rooms. It was all going swimmingly so the offer of indulgence flights was passed on to other units. Then one day an army wife who came back on a flight from Akrotiri decided to cover her expenses by putting in a claim for whiplash injuries on landing at Lyneham. On the piece of paper she read it was stated that "the seating did not conform to airline standards and did not have adequate head restraint". All further flights for wives and families were banned and a marvellous opportunity lost. It may even have been the cause of air cadets being eventually grounded.
As Rene from 'Allo 'Allo would have said "Stupid woman!"

[622]

When on the VGS, we used to have a fair few jollies when the helicopters came to play at our airfield...and many thanks to the crews who would always try and take passengers when they could.
One memory that sticks out for me was the AAC Lynx who popped in to top up at a temporary refuelling point that had been set up for them during an exercise, who initially said he unfortunately didn't have time to take us due to a pick up he had to make, took off and then turned straight round and landed again and said 'OK, I can take you for a quick circuit but I really must go after that'...and that is what he did.
Top marks to him.

[langleybaston]

Guetersloh to Topcliffe as a civvy Met Man, totally unauth. c. 1967 ......... a Topcliffe Varsity. My family were still in Thirsk after a 10 week wait for an OMQ at Guetersloh.
But how I got back to work I know not!

[Wander00]

I as lucky in the 80s, ex GD and posted to Command Accounts at Brampton. Command Accountant (first non GD winner of the Sword at the Towers) not known for sense of humour. Nevertheless I suggested that as I had the budgie on my jumper I should inspect flying stations. The WO who did the programme agreed and so I visited all the Support Command flying stations. Flew in something at nearly all of the, Valley managed to get me Hawk (with Stn Cdr who had been my QFI for Ex 1 as Gnat stude) and rotary. I did Bedford-Farnborough-Boscombe Down by air then flew in the Harvard. It was one way of assessing the relationship of usually a first tour OC Accounts with the waterfront, I did the accounting stuff in the evening, and a good time was had by all, especially me. Thanks to all who fixed it 30 years ago, but bet it would not happen now. When I got back after the Harvard flight my wife said I had the widest grin on my face she had ever seen.

[dctyke]

During my last few weeks as wpns tm on the RAFs premier fighter squadron I was taken up on a sidewinder live firing at STCAAME, one hell of an experience.

[Rick777]

I don't know if they still do it, but back when I was flying KC 135s SAC had a program where we could take our wives along on a refueling mission. I got to do it twice at different bases. I actually got a little respect around the house for a couple of days after.

[Pontius Navigator]

TTN, me too. I was bomber ops at Tengah when the call came from 74. After a long search for a guy on 44, well 5 seconds i guess, I was on my way. My ops role really was to receive the codes when the Vulcan returned. No sweat and I was back in good time.

Got a rollicking from the flt cdr but as he wasn't in my CoC I couldn't be added to even apologise :)

[JW411]

RAF Benson 1962; a small but vociferous section of the population of Benson village and Wallingford town were complaining about the noise that the new Argosys were making.

So, one Saturday, we had an open day and anyone from the area was welcome to come up to RAF Benson for a visit and go for a ride in an Argosy. I was escorting 40-odd locals out to one of our 267 Sqn machines. One of them was a vicar complete with dog collar. He earnestly told me that he had a confession to make!!!

"I don't really mind the noise but I have always wanted to go for a trip in an Argosy". I assured him that we didn't mind that at all and that I was sure that his AOC in C would also forgive him.

Come to think of it, I can remember a 53 Sqn reunion at Brize where we were all taken for a tour of SW England in a VC-10 flown by ex-53 crew members. (I was flying DC-10s for Fred Laker at the time).

[mopardave]

Former colleague of mine was in the MT at Binbrook.....Lightning needed an air test. Young pilot comes into the office where my colleague was. Asks if anyone fancies a quick trip.....former colleague says "no thanks...I'm off to play football". He's bitterly regretted that decision ever since! Hercules visits LBA back in the late '80's to drop the Red Devils over the Great Yorkshire show ground in Harrogate. My mother worked at LBA.....had a word with her boss who in turn was a friend of the airport chief exec (G.D.). Next thing I know, I'm in the back of the Herc with some airport firefighters being thrown around the sky over Harrogate, trying not to barf! I had asked if I could sit on the flight deck and was right royally f*@%ed off and sent down the back. It was only when I getting off, I noticed the 2 or 3 babes still on the flight deck!!!!!!! Understandable really!!!! :)

[Coochycool]

As an Air Cadet in the late 80s I used to make a regular nuisance of myself writing away to squadron commanders asking for trips. Every letter started with the line, if you don't ask you don't get. Don't think my CO was very approving but that wasn't going to stop me.

I received the full gamut of responses from "Sure, delighted to have you!" to a couple of pretty vociferous rejections. Most were in the positive however.

The odd one required that I go for a medical at my local station or get my ears syringed, but others not. Of course I had to do bang seat familiarisations and was invited to throw myself out of the odd cockpit trainer.

My very first attempt as a humble 15 year old, I was accepted for a trip with the Jag OCU at Lossie. Sadly upon arrival, I was advised that all their 2 seaters were U/S (did they really only have 2?). That has bugged me ever since but I still lucked out to an extent. The FRADU boys were visiting and I managed to bag a trip in one of their Falcon 20s. Pity all the Hunters seats were spoken for.

I subsequently managed trips in a JP3, Canberra, Victor, Shack, Nimrod (XV230!) and Wessex.

I even blagged a trip in the Sentry during my first employ which was with the MoD. Appropriate checks were apparently made from NATO High Command!

I also did a rapid decompression in the chamber at North Luffenham.

Sadly that fast jet trip eluded me. Still happy days though!

Cooch

[ancientaviator62]

During my time on the C130K we used to have families days for all the squadrons and the various supporting wings at Lyneham. My late father in law had his one and only ever flight with us. We still have the framed autographed print. Usual route was down to the Severn bridges and back via Cheddar gorge. When my father in law flew we came back over the village where we lived so with the ramp and door open he had a very good view. If you read the Hercules thread you will come across the tale of the alleged 'Captain's friend' ! My brother was the squadron clerk on the Lightning training Flight at Middleton and got a trip in the T4. I may never forgive him. I worked on Javelins, Hunters and Lightnings and never came close. Do they still do Families Day flying ?

[brakedwell]

In 1966, a month before I was due to end my tour on 105 sqn in Aden, I was rostered to fly an Argosy back to Benson for servicing via Jeddah, El Adem and a night stop in Luqa. I put in a request to take my wife and two year old son with me and much to my surprise it was approved by MEAF HQ with one condition - the British Consul in Jeddah must agree to accommodate my family if we went unserviceable during the refuelling stop. This was a problem, but as luck would have it a couple of weeks before departure I met the Consul during a series of trips to Jeddah carrying 30mm canon shells to the Saudi Air Force. We did a deal - covert Pork Sausages and Bacon from Aden in return for a bedroom at the Consulate if we broke down. The return flight went smoothly and the offer was not taken up.

[Pontius Navigator]

Finningley did in the 90s, Lyneham didn't in the noughtys, and Cranditz didn't even allow cockpit access last year although we blagged access for the grandchildren from one of the AAC studes after an RAF stude said no but then went for a break.

[Pontius Navigator]

Doc at Lossie fancied himself as a psychiatrist and tried his hand at curing a 'wife of' of aviophobia. As part of his kill or cure treatment the victim, sorry patient, was strapped in to a beam seat in the Shackleton which then started engines and taxied with the door open.

I don't think the cure worked.

[Lyneham Lad]

During my time on the C130K we used to have families days for all the squadrons and the various supporting wings at Lyneham.
Eng Wing Families Day '85:-

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f84/Lyneham_Lad/Lyneham/HercFlt6_zpspvwdi2su.jpg

[Treble one]

Was fortunate enough to get a pax ride in a Sea King from RAF Boulmer in the mid 80's as an ATC cadet-a prize for having the highest marks in one exam.


I also managed an AEF trip in a Chipmunk the previous year (pilot was a Sqd Ldr Leathers IIRC)


There endeth my military flying career.....

[pasta]

We must have been pretty lucky in my CCF days, the AAC were positively itching to get us airborne. I was treated to multiple rides in Scouts and Lynxes; one of the Lynx rides was quite sporty, but the highlight was a ride in the front of a Gazelle over West Berlin, some time in the early 80s. Exciting stuff for an impressionable schoolboy on his first trip outside the UK!

[FlapJackMuncher]

It can still happen.
As recently as 2008 or 9 my wife and a small number of her friends flew in a Herc whilst the Red Devils did a practice drop over Akrotiri.
A call had gone into TPMH that there would be spaces available as a thank you for being there in case they were needed.
Some uniformed types took up the offer and selected friends went along too.

[ancientaviator62]

LL, I recognise that view ! But not on that exact trip. After being rehoused from our 'slum' (the description on the letter my parents received) I was very lucky to find myself 100 yds from RAF Usworth, now the Nissan car factory. My friend worked there as a tarmac hand waiting for his RAF joining instructions. So in my ATC uniform and armed with my parents permission I did a lot of flying in Ansons Chipmunks and Oxfords. Almost got a night flight in the Harvard after cleaning it but the ungrateful thing went u/s. Another cadet complained about my 'hogging' but it was just a case , as we have seen above, of right place right time. And as I spent most of my free time there cleaning pushing polishing and sweeping I was always available. The ATC CO forbid me to do any more flying. But I did keep up the flying but just did not log it. I was aided and abetted in this by all concerned at Usworth.

[pulse1]

I have recently read Tony Blackman's excellent book, Vulcan Test Pilot. I know it isn't RAF but, during his displays of the Vulcan at Farnborough, members of the Avro office staff were invited to sit in with him. On the flight back to Woodford, his wife sat in the righthand seat. How things have changed?

[longer ron]

If we are happy to talk about unauthorised military pax - one of the most famous ones must have been Roly Beamont CBE, DSO & Bar, DFC & Bar - he was court-martialled for transporting a WAAF to a dance at another RAF station in his single-seat Hurricane, and was severely admonished.

[Wyler]

West Falkland (Cape Orford), 1983. Army chopper lands at Cara Cara radar to deliver Senior Officer for a visit. I am tasked with looking after the pilot and getting him some lunch.
I ask pilot (Army Major) for a trip up the coast. Lectured about how it isn't a a fairground ride blah blah blah.
Had lunch and Major asks if I have a spare cigarette as he left his in Stanley. Yes, say I, I have a store room with loads of them. Long story short, 200 Benson & Hedges and a drop of fuel (As a JO, was trained in refuelling due to our location) later, I am whizzing about at not a lot of feet for 20 minutes.
Also got 30 minutes in a Gazelle in exchange for some oranges.

Those were the days. :ok:

[RimBim]

I managed to get a ride in a Hunter at Thumrayt, 40 odd years ago. Bugger nearly managed to make me use the sick bag but not quite, beating up the wadis and up and over the escarpments. It'd taken umpteen gallons of Amstel down his throat the previous evening though to give the flight to me! Brilliant time there, brilliant people, brilliant place.
PS, I didn't wear blue shorts to work.....

[langleybaston]

court-martialled for transporting a WAAF to a dance at another RAF station in his single-seat Hurricane, and was severely admonished.

so, just out of interest, you understand, who sat on who's lap?

[Pontius Navigator]

Would the pole not get in the way?

[rolling20]

Circa 1978,aged about 15,I walked through the gates at Southend airport with my pedal bike to see the BBMF Lanc up close as it taxied in( you could do that in those days). The pilot came out and I, never scared of being forward, asked if there was any chance of a ride? He smiled but said alas no. Fast forward to 1981, at Conningsby UAS summer camp and our adj Mick Mills (X 49 Squadron Lanc rear gunner) blagged a ride in the BBMF Lanc in his former seat. When he saw the Hurricane and Spitfire format up, he recalled that he thought they were a couple of Messerschmitts! He was turning the rear turret manual wheel like mad to train the guns on them.Many years later I spoke to the pilot that day, Jacko Jackson and he remembered the flight. 'That bugger',he said,'kept turning the bloody turret and ruining the trim of the aircraft!' Priceless....

[LOMCEVAK]

I was fortunate enough to listen to 'Bea' tell the story about that Hurricane sortie. I think that it was between Pembrey and Castle Martin (although one of the airfields may have been Brawdy). The reason was to go to a party and he did sit on the WAAF's lap. The WAAF later became his wife! I cannot do the story justice as he was a great story teller of tales such as this.

[tartare]

Not strictly on topic - as I've never been in uniform, but a UH-1H ride with the RNZAF sometime in the late eighties comes to mind.
At a training camp as a civilian in the South Island with teams destined for Antarctica that summer.
Have a vivid memory of being strapped into one of the sideways facing fold-down seats with a full load of pax - rear door all the way back as we were hover-taxying, and thinking how extraordinarily quiet it was inside even with the doors open - compared to the Huey drum beat that you always heard from the ground.
Talking to the young pilot afterwards, and he told me that 50 foot rotor had so much inertia that he could auto-rotate, touch down, then pull collective and rotate the aircraft through 180 degrees to touch down again with engine still at idle.
Amazing.

[dctyke]

In a similar vein what about VSO's who have flown jets without proper type training/auths.

[Davef68]

A couple of my mountaineering friends got a lift in an RAF Sea King, but it wasn't exactly a 'joy ride'!

[noflynomore]

Scroll back to Cranfield in the early '80s.

A young commercial instructor who was 100% civvy blagged Sandy Topin (not an easy thing to do) that he had RAF Vampire time despite obviously being at least a decade too young and flew several displays at Cranfield and elsewhere. He was renowned for finishing a loop over terrain lower than the airfield and disappearing from sight still going down which created quite an impression I'm told. I'm pretty certain he'd never flown a jet before, just boned up on the pilot's notes and did it.

Sadly, predictably, such a wayward spirit as this did not make old bones and is doubtless right now blowing up a hoolie on his Sax on that great airfield in the sky. Much loved by all that knew him.

[Pontius Navigator]

WIWO Nimrods two brothers-in-law visited, one on leave from Binbrook and one from Culdrose. I gave them leave cancellation forms and a 9 hour hop in a Nimrod. Back home the RAF one was duly returned one day's leave. The PO tore up the sailor's one.

[JW411]

One of the funniest stories that I can remember; we are in Bahrain after the withdrawal from Aden at the end of 1967. I am a training captain on Argosys. We now have two Hunter squadrons in Bahrain; 8 and 208 (Naval Eight).

One of the Hunter wheels asked me in the bar one day if he could come and fly something bigger, so I arranged that he could come flying with me on a training flight on a Saturday afternoon. He did very well; I set the power and told him what speed to fly and all was well.

Later, he came "up-country" with me round some strips in Oman and (what is now) the UAE.

In return, he offered me a trip in the Hunter T.7.

First of all, I was a very busy individual and, to be honest, I was not all that bothered about getting in a Hunter. Apart from anything, there was a long list of deserving candidates already waiting for a Hunter ride.

So. one Saturday lunchtime in the bar at Muharraq he had another go at me to take up his offer. It so happened that one of my good mates had just been posted back to UK (to Belfasts) and he had always wanted to get in a Hunter.
So I suggested that he take my mate instead of me - that way, honour would be satisfied.

And so it was that my mate got airborne in a T.7 first thing on the Monday morning. It is winter and the weather is not great but they are going to "punch up" through the clouds and do some "aeros".

On the way up, my mate asked if it was normal to have smoke coming from behind the instrument panel?

So, we have a Pan Call and a request for a radar recovery. Then we find that the compasses are not working so we update to a Mayday. Finally by using "Left a bit" "Right a bit" they break cloud only to discover that the gear won't come down! After a lot of "G" pulling below a low cloud base, the wheels finally come down and they land safely and they are duly towed off the runway with a tug.

They are now in the Hunter crewroom and my mate is thanking God that he is back on the ground in one piece when my Hunter friend walks in.

"I have just spoken to the Chiefy and he tells me that he can have 562 ready in half an hour".

My mate left instantly.

By the way, my Hunter friend went on to lead the Sparrows.

[ancientaviator62]

As for A VSO attempting to fly an a/c when not qualified to do so I seem to recall the tale of a certain AOC and a VC10. Perhaps Beags can shed more light on the matter.

[BEagle]

No, I cannot - that's news to me!

When I was flying the VC10, there was a specific brief for VSOs who were to fly in the aircraft and the captain had to be a current QFI. The VSO would be given a brief and a short session in the simulator.

If they wanted to fly the take-off, we practised the abort scenario in the simulator. This was to a different SOP than the normal take-off; the QFI would call "ABORT - I HAVE CONTROL!" and the VSO would take hands and feet off. As the QFI, I would close the throttles (if the Air Eng hadn't already done so), extend the speedbrakes, select reverse on whichever engines were still producing thrust and start braking and steering to a halt. It was a blur of activity, but was the safer option as it would have been all too easy for the VSO to forget a crucial part of the drill.

The only questionable aspect of flying a VSO was if he wanted to do some prodding. Fine if he'd flown big aircraft before, but if not....:hmm:

[Pontius Navigator]

Do AOCs still do type training? It was certainly the case in 1 Gp, and I presume 3 Gp, for the AOC to do a short Vulcan Conversion Course. Usually flew to Cyprus for the better, more reliable weather. Probably avoided distractions from the office down the road though I understand there may have been other distractions there.

[harrym]

Ref #73 & #74, one March day many years ago I was informed the AOC would be passenger on the weekly Dulles schedule that I was shortly due to operate; however, on phoning his PA to enquire if he would like to take the jump seat, I was somewhat peremptorily informed that he would be flying the VC10 himself.

Of course, there could be no question of this – how could any sane person expect to fly a passenger-carrying aircraft, of a type on which he was totally unqualified, into a busy international airport in the depths of winter? Not only that, the idea was totally contrary to all rules and regulations (which we were both sworn to uphold) and simply could not be allowed to happen - but how to sink it, preferably without trace? My initial idea of waiting to see what happened on the day was soon abandoned; visions of violent confrontation on the flight deck, with flight plan already filed and passengers boarded, were unpleasant to contemplate and so I took the easier option of passing my objections up the chain of command.

The result was interesting, to say the least. My CO backed me 100%+, although I got the impression that the higher up my refusal went, the more wobbly the support although nothing more was heard from Group HQ .

Came the day, the great man boarded along with the rest and the flight over the Pond proceeded without incident; I even spoke with him while visiting the passengers, I don't recall what was said other than any conversation was short and rather terse; I hoped that was the end of the matter, but nature decided otherwise.

We were due to stop briefly at Ottawa, but the forecast was dire and did not improve as we got closer; furthermore the ILS was unavailable, though whether due to being u/s or on the wrong runway I can't remember, but it left us with only PAR as an alternative – an aid that, in my opinion, was always inferior to a well set-up ILS. Inevitably, nothing was visible at decision height so it was off to Trenton, our diversion airfield about 200 miles to the SW, from which we got away again asap on the short hop down to Dulles.

When our crew finally got to the terminal I was rather dismayed to find the passengers still milling about, our AOC among them. Unfortunately he saw us and, beckoning me into an empty office, proceeded to conduct a rather one-sided discussion on my shortcomings as an officer relating to a superior. Nothing was said on the topic of who flew what & when, no just that I was ill-mannered and disrespectful in not personally appraising him of the fact that we had to divert - despite that (obviously) the passengers had all been informed by PA. How I was expected to abandon my responsibilities as aircraft captain in order to speak to him was not explained, while that he said nothing on the subject which started it all, would perhaps indicate he knew he was on rather thin ice – or had he been made aware of an accident involving a VSO in a very similar situation about thirty years previous? - which, being highly relevant, please read on:-


Sometime during the late 1940s a York inbound to Nairobi was carrying a number of pax among whom was the AOC of the group to which the aircraft belonged. At a later stage of flight the VSO appeared on the flight deck (if one could so describe the York's crew space) demanding the captain relinquish his seat, saying he would now take the aircraft in to land; and, although even then there were strict rules & regs concerning qualifications and suchlike, the captain acceded. However during the final approach it was evident the York was lined up to land at Nairobi West rather than its proper destination of Eastleigh, but when the captain pointed this out he was told to shut up and the approach continued – with inevitable results. After over-running the too short runway the aircraft was damaged beyond repair, though miraculously there were only very few minor injuries. Other than being posted shortly afterwards, I don't think the VSO responsible for this display of arrogant stupidity was ever sanctioned.



Re #39, the carriage of dependants on an aircraft where the head of family was a member of crew was (in my time anyway) streng verboten and strictly enforced - in the shiny fleet at any rate, although I never actually saw any written rules on the subject. Did different rules apply at Lyneham in the old days, indeed do any still apply today at Brize?


harrym

[ancientaviator62]

harrym, the rules ref the carriage of ones own dependents were laid down in GASOs and were exactly the same for the Hercules. Even on families flights this rule was enforced. It was amended later on I think. The VC 10 incident to which I referred must have taken place around the early 1970s. With the usual caveats of hearsay , memory etc I will tell what little I know. It was at Bahrain (was it still RAF Muharraq ?) that the AOC told the a/c captain that he intended to operate the leg home including the take off and landing. The captain demurred as the AOC was not qualified on type and not only would it be dangerous but also illegal under the 38 Group regulations. When the AOC forced the issue the a/c captain said in that case he would get off the a/c and be followed by the rest of the crew as they had no wish to perish to satisfy someone's ego trip. The AOC must have backed down otherwise the VC 10 might still be there now ! There are similarities here with harrym's story so they may be one and the same. However given some of the VSO that we had it could well be a separate incident.

[Pontius Navigator]

On family and crew, that was effectively true at 6FTS where the crew were on the Jet Stream whereas we were all Dominie crew. However we were allowed to fly as cabin escort.

[Dougie M]

Just to lighten the tone, the P.R. side of the R.A.F. have been instrumental in awarding some unexpected moments of gratification for the crew. On a Falcons drop to Weston Super Mare we were asked to take the presenters of Blue Peter along. "As long as they leave the animals behind" we said. After the team jumped and in the descent with the freight bay full of orange smoke, the presenters were invited to the flight deck to observe the fly past. One stood either side of the Engineer's chair with one standing behind him. At precisely one minute and fifteen seconds after the "Last man down" call we arrived at the impact point and the captain rolled left then applied a 2G pull which caused the presenter in front of the Nav station, known as "Princess Tippytoes" to lose her hand hold above the Copilot's head and she was delivered in a tousled state of embarrassed confusion into my lap. I comforted her," there, there and possibly there" and advised her to stay put until we offloaded the G. For some reason that memory has stayed with me all these years.

[Haraka]

Without wishingto add too much thread drift , in the early 70's the Blue Peter team visited the Fleet Air Arm Museum, which at the time had the Camel from the I.W.M in custody.
John Noakes was puzzled as to how ,in reality, one clambered into a Camel in WW1 . Haraka Senior explained to him one technique being to straddle the rear fuselage and hand walk up the decking before swinging your legs forward one at a time and easing down in to the cockpit. Noakes though this a splendid item for the show and asked if he could be filmed doing it.
This was duly instigated and he got as far as just starting to swing his legs in when he promptly ripped the backside out of his trousers
(on some attachment left over from when the IWM hung the beast from the roof in South Lambeth apparently).

[XV490]

I can't remember her name, but a very popular Stn Cdr's secretary at Wattisham was treated to a trip in a Lightning T4 many moons ago.

[harrym]

Thank you ancientaviator62 for enlightenment on this topic, I should have guessed the same rules applied for all the transport force. As for the Bahrein incident I have no memory of it, but that is probably more of a comment on my memory than on what you write! The affair I described took place in early '76, so quite possibly the same character was involved but that would depend on knowing the other date.

harrym

[tezzer]

As a civilian, working for an other Government Department, I have enjoyed trips out of Coltishall in a Chinook, a trans Scotland trip in a Sea king from either Kinloss or Lossimouth (can't remember which, but we ended up on a hill South of Oban), and a trio of Nimrods, from Kinloss to the Azores, for a tasking, being dropped off at Glasgow airport on the return leg. No steps available at Glasgow, so had to go out of a door at the back on a rope ladder from memory. Happy days, and a privileged position to be in for sure.

[Pontius Navigator]

Tezzer, no ladder, a knotted rope, probably starboard rear door.

[ancientaviator62]

harrym, I have sent you a PM, hope it arrives.

[Wander00]

XV - is that a popular Staish or a popular secretary....?

[tezzer]

PN, Port rear door from memory, and could be correct on the knotted rope. It was a while ago now, obviously, I would need a sedan chair now to get me out.

[Pontius Navigator]

Crikey Tezzer, at your age you should be able to jump. I admit I used the starboard door to fool the 'enemy' when we did an intruder exercise.