Vulcan Begging Bowl Out Again...

[742-xx]

Not sure if this is the right place for this but here goes.

https://www.justgiving.com/campaigns/charity/vtts/vulcanxh558ssurvivalplan

So why get involved with the Canberra ? Surely they saw this coming ?

[Pontius Navigator]

To the sky was one thing as it was unique. Now it is just one amongst !many. More now about jobs?

[jindabyne]

'Twas always thus

[NutLoose]

Should be renamed "just give in.com"

From the accounts

At the end of 2015, Directions Finningley CIC’s lease on Hangar 3 came to an end. Negotiations for VTST to take over the lease for the whole of Hangar 3 had been carrying on for some time, but as the year-end approached, the Trust came under some pressure to take on the lease for the 2016 calendar year – this it finally agreed to do.
The Trust, through its trading subsidiary VPMC, endeavoured to maximise the income from the hangar by licensing the available space to current and new tenants, with some but not total success. However events using the hangar space and available conference rooms have also been promoted successfully.
In August 2016, the Trust was informed that DSA was in need of additional cargo handling space for increased activity, and that as the result, the Trust would need to move its operations from Hangar 3 to Hangar 1. Dependent on current negotiations, this will happen at the end of 2016.


Not exactly as if they did not know it was going to happen, strange how they held the lease and took it on for year 2016 (will that not be the financial year?) and then they appear to be getting made homeless. But it already states that they have a hangar to go to, one would have thought having no visits which were paying part of the rent must be a death knell for it.

It smacks of moral blackmail and conveniently seems to avoid mentioning the storage appears to be another hangar

[BEagle]

From the full PR http://www.vulcantothesky.org/uploads/documents/Vulcan%20XH558%20Survival%20Press%20Release.pdf :

At a briefing for staff, followed immediately by an e-newsletter and social media briefing for the aircraft’s hundreds of thousands of supporters, Dr. Pleming announced that the Vulcan to the Sky Trust team would be slimmed down from 22 to just eight full time staff, supported by volunteers and a few part-time staff. Both Dr Pleming and business development director Michael Trotter will be moving to part- time roles where they will continue to provide strategic direction for the Trust.

They had 22 full time staff? No wonder costs were so high...

The plan explained to supporters is that the Trust’s aircraft and other assets currently in Hangar 3 will move temporarily into a storage facility that the airport is providing free-of-charge until the end of April. During that time, the Trust and Doncaster Sheffield Airport hope to conclude an agreement to build a new hangar at Doncaster Sheffield Airport, allowing resumption of tours, events, educational visits and engineering activities by the end of 2017. These businesses will then fund the lease of the hangar from the developers until the larger, more ambitious ETNA facility is ready.

A bit ambiguous - it's not clear whether that means that the 'storage facility' hangar is only available until the end of April, or that's when Finningley Maid Marian International will start charging VTTS for storage...

A hangar is essential for protecting XH558 from the weather and providing an environment for maintenance to RAF standards.

Yet 655MaPS have been looking after XM655 in open storage at Wellesbourne Mountford and the aircraft continues to conduct high-speed taxying demonstrations - all on a fraction of the XH558 budget and entirely thanks to the dedicated efforts of 655MaPS' volunteers.

I lost any confidence in VTTS after the still-unexplained and totally avoidable destruction of 2 engines thanks to silica gel desiccant bags left in the intakes. My previous donations now go to 'Navy Wings' and 655MaPS!

[NutLoose]

Well Pleming in the current copy of Aeroplane explains his £70K wage packet away as in line with any other charity boss.


The number of employees whose annual remuneration was £60,000 or more were: One
Earning

£70,000 to £80,000

Top that off with expenses in the 2015 accounts of

Related parties
Expenses relating to travel, subsistence and other have been claimed by Andrew Edmondson, director of
Vulcan to the Sky Enterprises Limited, amounting to £6,341 (2014: £5,312) to which £nil (2014: £454) was
due to be paid at the year end.
Expenses relating to travel, subsistence and other have been claimed by Robert Pleming, Chief Executive
of Vulcan to the Sky Trust, amounting to £26,421 (2014: £16,276) to which £nil (2014: £13,293) was due to
be paid at the year end.

Why be an MP

[Treble one]

£26K in expenses? To do what? That's a lot of miles/hotels?


I used to support the aircraft but after the PtF fiasco at Waddington I stopped. I have a chum who used to work at Marshalls when they were involved and he had a very interesting take on how the organisation was run. It wasn't entirely complimentary.

[NutLoose]

http://www.vulcantothesky.org/uploads/documents/Survival%20PR%20copy.pdf

Appears he is moving to part time.

The just giving page has ermmm Gone!

[reds & greens]

Total debacle.
End of my support, both enthusiasm and monetary.

[SPIT]

Instead of spending money on an aircraft that will NEVER fly again there is a Lancaster (NX 611) that could fly again and wouldn't it be something to see two Lancasters flying together on a regular basis. It again would give a LOT of people a LOT OF PLEASURE. :ok::ok:

[Pontius Navigator]

Spit, hear hear

[gr4techie]

A hangar is essential for protecting XH558 from the weather and providing an environment for maintenance to RAF standards.

While reading this, looking out the window to see aircraft being maintained outside on the line.

[Tashengurt]

I'm astounded that after all the effort of getting her flying and the subsequent talk of keeping her as an educational exhibit she was allowed to go to a location that didn't assure her future?!

[Nige321]

XM655 arriving at Wellsbourne...

5ryja4RQOCQ

[Wander00]

Why do I hear a mystery chorus quietly singing "I told you so".......


Hat, coat....


Hope the Canberra gets looked after though, if not by them, then someone who can do it properly

[BEagle]

I would rather see the Canberra flying again than another Lancaster.

We need to keep more '50s and '60s jets airworthy rather than another WW2 aeroplane of which one example is still flying.

[Pontius Navigator]

Well who has more chance of succeeding, the Pantons or that other chap?

[NutLoose]

Two BEagle, one in the U.K. but two in the world.

At least with a Lanc there are organation that can overhauled your engines and it is simple technology, the Canberra isn't either of those. So has a finite life.

[Out Of Trim]

Really not interested in supporting VTTS any more. No point!

[Lima Juliet]

Far rather see another Lanc airborne or a couple of Mosquitos than a Canberra. Sorry BEags, don't agree with 50s/60s jet thing as the WWII types are a tribute to the very many that lost their life in those types - Lest We Forget.

Also, VTTS only ever got a £5 donation from me in the early days as I saw through what I viewed as a scam quite early on. I see that a well-known knighted MP is one of the trustees. I'm surprised that he still is now that the story of how large amounts of money was spent (dare I say squandered?) under probably his and the rest of trustee's guidance.

LJ

[aw ditor]

Leon. Only did one Tour' on them in the late 1950s' but wouldn't regard the Canberra B2/6 as that "complicated". Designed and built to a 1944 Spec. Avon 100 Series were quite basic' too. 109 on the B6/B8?

A.D.

[Simplythebeast]

I think VTTS made a serious mistake choosing the Canberra to resore to flight. No matter that it is a 'special' Canberra, it will never draw the public like the Vulcan could. Money would be better spent bringing the Coventry shackleton back to flight or Just Jane. The shackleton would draw far more paying spectators than any canberra,

[NutLoose]

The Shack was working towards that aim but sadly hit a hitch of late, see the Flypast forums

The Canberra is pressurised, that is why I said complex, plus it has bang seats that are probably no longer supported, is it manual flying controls on it? and to be honest isn't that much of a crowd puller, probably one reason tha the VTTS are not doing so well with it, just not the interest there. It's not whether the engines are simple or not, it's who overhaul's and supports them and that is probably the problem, same went for the Vulcan,

Mossies, I think there are three airworthy now with a fourth in the wings, but I might be one to many on that.

The Lanc at East Kirby is working towards it now and I hope they get it airworthy, that will make three in total.

The Gannet at Saints was working towards it as well, but has gone quiet, the Hunter crash has sadly screwed it up for everyone.

My dream would be to see the Sunderland brought back to the U.K and flown. Having seen it flying years ago, it impressed me.

[Pontius Navigator]

As NutLoose suggests, is there public support for restoration for a Cold War warrior of the 50s and 60s that was largely eclipsed by the V-bombers and mainly hidden from the British public from the 60s. I remember an excellent tight display by a T4 at Finningley probably in 1966. One particular manoeuvre was a half loop from low level, undercarriage lowered in the climb and rolling wings level from inverted flight at the top of the loop before landing. The majority of the crowd continued shopping, picnicking, or headed to the beer tent. In contrast the 4 Vulcan scramble silenced the crowd.

Much as NL would like to see the Sunderland or Gannet would they have any significance to most of the public?

[Simplythebeast]

Its more spectacle than significance and a Sunderland would definately provide the spectacle.

[scorpion63]

"The Canberra is pressurised, that is why I said complex, plus it has bang seats that are probably no longer supported, is it manual flying controls on it? and to be honest isn't that much of a crowd puller, probably one reason tha the VTTS are not doing so well with it, just not the interest there. It's not whether the engines are simple or not, it's who overhaul's and supports them and that is probably the problem, same went for the Vulcan,"


In the 17 years that I was involved with operating WK163 we were the most popular non military display team before the Vulcan came along. We actually made a small operating profit and were pretty much self supporting in the beginning before overheads became a problem and Air Atlantique stepped in to offer help. WK163 has Avon 109's not 100Srs and is not in the complex catagory, we had our own engineers, all very well qualified and aircrew equally qualified and not one of us was paid, we did it because we wanted too. It has manual flying controls and we had our own seat servicing bay authorised by Martin Baker who supported us from the start as did many other companies Kidde Graviner, CFS, Atlantique and many others who gave free support. Loosing an engine caused us great problems and protracted negotiations ran for years until the the aircraft was no longer viable without a huge injection of funds which Mike Collett was happy to give. However the passing of time and retirement of key people stalled the project until VTTS stepped in.

[GeeRam]

Mossies, I think there are three airworthy now with a fourth in the wings, but I might be one to many on that.

No, that's correct.

KA114 & TV959 in the USA, and VR796 in Canada.

PZ474 is the next one coming along Avspecs mini production line.

[Bigbux]

No, that's correct.

KA114 & TV959 in the USA, and VR796 in Canada.

PZ474 is the next one coming along Avspecs mini production line.



The People's Mosquito ? To Fly ~ To Educate ~ To Remember (http://www.peoplesmosquito.org.uk)

My house is full of their merch. Really want to see a UK Mossie in the air.

[Evanelpus]

The clue is in the title, Vulcan To The Sky.

It's never going to happen again so shut them down and end all this jobs and perks for the boys.

[GeeRam]

The People's Mosquito ? To Fly ~ To Educate ~ To Remember

My house is full of their merch. Really want to see a UK Mossie in the air.

I wouldn't hold your breath.

[Nige321]

This is doing the rounds on Facebook...


Some sad news today from Doncaster about the future of XH588..credit to David Robinson for the update.

A very sad day today folks, made a final visit to see XH558 in hangar three, which you might think was sad enough, but there was more bad news to come...
Today was an ideal opportunity to have a chat with one of the engineers, someone that we have known for many years, and when I asked him if he was being kept on, he dropped a bombshell by saying that no one was being kept on, all the engineering team, including Taff Stone were being laid off.
Only two people will remain, possibly on a part time basis, and I think you can guess who they are, yep Robert Pleming and Andrew Edmundson, everyone else....gone.
I asked if Taff was there today, he said no, he had left and gone for an interview, I believe he said at Cranwell.
When asked if he would go back if asked to by the Trust, he said no, not after the way they had been treated.
More info came to light, that 558 will move into hanger one and put into storage, but he said that it will only be allowed to stay there till April, if no new home has been built / found by then, she will be moved and stored outside.
Also spoke to one of the volunteers, again someone we have known for many years, and he told us that all the volunteers will leave at the end of the week, and will only return if a new home is found for 558.
At the moment folks, the future to me doesn’t look to bright.
If there are no engineers, how are they going to keep her in taxiable condition, something that the Heritage Fund said they had to do when they got the grant, hope they wont want their money back.
No one would be drawn into a conversation re WK163, except to say, that the Trust realise now that they made a mistake in buying her..
As I say, to me the future doesnt look to good, no engine runs, no taxi runs, no engineers, no volunteers and no visits for the foreseeable future for members of the public.
There is a possibility of course that all of this, and more, may be in tomorrow nights newsletter, we will have to wait with baited breath to see…

[Wander00]

Well. there you go.....


A thought - was/is VTTS a "Charity"? . if so, should the Charity Commission be doing a little digging?

[Pontius Navigator]

Wonder if it was a coincidence that Just Jane had a page wide spread in the DT this week all in the nudey all paint removed. They plan to put her together again for engine runs and taxy rides during the summer for fun raising. No begging bowl or huge CEO salaries.

[sidewayspeak]

The Vulcan leeches are the epitome of greedy, self-serving parasites. Sucking on the teat of Public goodwill, hiding behind an honourable purpose but carrying it out in a despicable manner. Taking ridiculous salaries to do something they could be doing for nothing. I would not give them the steam off my pee.

The brothers at the East Kirkby Airfield who are trying to get Just Jane back into the sky are the complete opposite. Genuine, passionate and public-spirited. I will be donating to the Just jane fund.

If any of the Vulcan parasites ever read this - you are rumbled. We know. And I sincerely wish ill-fortune on you all.

[NutLoose]

Extraordinary General Meeting Needed? (http://www.vulcantothesky.org/smf/index.php?topic=7753.0)

Just seen the latest e-mail update, and feel exasperated.
A year in storage with no engine runs, and only a hope that free storage will be extended past April. Taff to keep her in current state - I've no idea how the systems will be kept live if there are no engine runs - I suspect she is being mothballed, so everything will stop working for at least a year, and then cost a fortune to bring her back to her current state....Another last ditch appeal no doubt.

The new hanger is being leased by the trust not owned by it - in the same way we leased Hanger 3, and look where that has got us. No information on the length of lease - is it a perpetual lease, and what safeguards are there to prevent us being kicked out when another tenant offers them more money for the use of it?

Apparently all the obstacles to taxi runs have been resolved - just in time to be moved into storage! Why not taxy her there in front of us all?! Nothing in the Q&A to indicate if the airport will allow spectators onto the airfield? They weren't interested in allowing this for the final flight, so what has changed?

The Q&A's are an insult to anyone with any knowledge - Bruntingthorpe not suitable because of the runway - which of course is why the Cold War jets all use it twice a year without issue. Oh and because we cant fly the Canberra from there - sorry to point out the bleeding obvious, but the main reason we wont fly the Canberra is there is no money to restore or operate her, so thoughts about the suitability of a runway are irrelevant! No mention of any consultation with the CAA on a one-off ferry flight to somewhere people can go and see her - even though it is possible given her current state of maintenance.

According to the last accounts Dr Pleming drew between £70 -£80K in the last year - doing what exactly? Why is he paid at all - none of the trustees are. His salary is close on 25% of the total expenditure of the trust - How on earth is that acceptable to anyone?

I really feel those at the top have lost their way, and let everyone down.

I'm sorry to say I'm done with this project.....Good luck everyone - I hope you are successful, but I will be truly amazed if she ever taxies again, let alone in front of her loyal supporters.

Over and Out.....

[NutLoose]

Vulcan To The Sky - Survival Q and A (http://www.vulcantothesky.org/news/855/82/Survival-Q-and-A.html)

[4mastacker]

Quote by Dr Pleming:

..... The damage that can be caused to heritage jet engines by even very small pieces of debris can be terminal, we need to avoid unmaintained runways.....

..and silicagel bags???

[wub]

Beat me to it 4mastacker, that jumped right off the page at me.

[NutLoose]

And to think we even used to reverse taxi vc10 with all the associated crap thrown up in front of the intake with no problems, and they bleat on about debris, plenty of legacy era jets hurtling down the strips mentioned, sucking just as much air through them and closer to the ground with no damage incurred. Smoke and mirrors.

[BEagle]

And to think we even used to reverse taxi vc10 with all the associated crap thrown up in front of the intake with no problems

No 'we' didn't, don't talk bolleaux!

[NutLoose]

I must have been imagining it at Deci then backing out of the pan under its own steam due to the lack of a tow bar.
Also I used to ground run them standing still with reverse selected in to check it.