WWII Flying Coffins

[SASless]

Just ran across this article about US Army Air Corps Glider Pilots.....and having flown Gliders in the past it prompted me to consider what it must have been like to be a Glider Pilot headed to France at night over the English Channel knowing it was a one way trip and the reception you were going to face upon landing was not going to be a friendly one.

I tip my Hat to those Men...of both the American and British Glider Pilots as they certainly were Bold as Brass! When one looks back to those Nights such as at Pegasus Bridge and other assaults in which Gliders played such a role....it makes one step back and salute.

https://www.asme.org/engineering-topics/articles/aerospace-defense/the-flying-coffins-of-world-war-ii

[Avtrician]

Never mind the pilots,

What about the cannon fodder in the back. They just had to sit there and hope they could walk away from where ever they wound up..

[beardy]

Night landings into unlit fields, for practice and then into defended, unlit fields. Character building stuff.

[teeteringhead]

Quite a bit of stuff here (http://www.assaultglidertrust.co.uk) on the Assault Glider Trust website.

Latterly more and more RAF pilots were used, as the GPR ones were all - one way or another - on one-way trips.....

[Danny42C]

A Forced Landing every time ! And maybe an (un)welcoming committee ! I take my hat off to them.

Danny42C,

[orionsbelt]

My late Father (220 Sqdn B17 Flt Eng) often talked of observing a Sqdn of dive bombers, making a practice attack and the first 3/4/5 aircraft just tent pegged in one after another.
I am unable to recall the specific attack aeroplane but it was but either:
• Brewster Buccaneer — dive bomber (Royal Navy)
• Fairey Albacore — torpedo/dive bomber (Royal Air Force, Royal Navy)
• Fairey Barracuda — dive bomber (Royal Navy)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_of_the_United_Kingdom_in_World_War_II#Torpe do_bombers.2C_Dive_Bombers_and_Army_Cooperation
This must have been around August 1943 when 220 Sqdn was working up on B17s before deployment to the Azores later that year. He was on his 2nd or 3rd training flight and a new crew. They were base at Benbecula at the time.
***

[Molemot]

Back in 1994, a large number of Americans came through Heathrow Terminal 4 where I was an Immigration Officer, it being the 50th anniversary of the Invasion. One came to my desk, with his much younger wife.... I asked him how long he intended to stay and what they were going to do....He told me there were in Europe for the commemoration of the Invasion...but his wife didn't like him talking about it (!) So I asked him what it was he had done....and he told me he had been a Hamilcar glider pilot. "Those were the ones with tanks in the back, weren't they?" I asked him....he nodded....so I said "I'm terribly sorry, I won't be able to admit you to the UK." "Why not?" he asked....so I told him we were expressly forbidden to admit lunatics (!) ... he started to laugh and said they were all young and crazy.....

[radar101]

The amazing thing is that I understand that, if they survived the landing, the pilots were expected to pick up an SMG and join the troops in the fight. Talk about multi-tasking!

[skippedonce]

OB,
Ref the sqn of dive bombers:
- Brewster Buccanneer (Bermuda in UK service) - unlikely given the small number (5) used by the UK
- Fairey Albacore - unlikely, as by 1943 they were being retired from front-line duty rather than working up to it
- Fairey Barracuda - entering service in 1943, so the most likely of the 3 suspects.

[Flying Bull]

Well,
it wasn´t only the allied using gliders...

Messerschmitt Me-321 Gigant | Aircraft | (http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/models/aircraft/Messerschmitt-Me321.html)

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/DFS_230

[SASless]

We don't brag on the Oppo's......bad form you know!:oh:

[Flying Bull]

Well,
oppos became friends :ok:

[Wensleydale]

...and don't forget the British Air Landing Brigade in the invasion of Sicily in 1943. The tugs were American, and having got lost and been shot at by the Invasion Fleet at sea, the tugs dropped the gliders short and very very few reached land. Over 250 glider borne troops drowned. Little wonder that there were often fights between British airborne troops and American pilots afterwards.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ladbroke

[Dan Gerous]

The amazing thing is that I understand that, if they survived the landing, the pilots were expected to pick up an SMG and join the troops in the fight. Talk about multi-tasking!
I'm sure I read somewhere that on D Day, after surviving the landing, the Pilots were expected to head for the beaches, get a lift back to the UK, and do it all again!

[GeeRam]

I'm sure I read somewhere that on D Day, after surviving the landing, the Pilots were expected to head for the beaches, get a lift back to the UK, and do it all again!

That's correct for the American Glider pilots, who were not trained infantry, as opposed to our Glider Pilot Regiment who were fully trained as infantry, with in effect the ability to fly a Glider on a one-way trip, as their secondary function.

The GPR at Arnhem, suffered the highest casualty rate among all the 1st AB units during Market Garden, at around 90%.....:eek:

This is a famous photo of two members of the GPR house clearing during the fighting at Arnhem

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/07/Dutch_school_being_searched_for_German_snipers.jpg

[MAINJAFAD]

Latterly more and more RAF pilots were used, as the GPR ones were all - one way or another - on one-way trips..... Happened after Market Garden, 1500 RAF pilots were transfered to the Gliders. The adult WO on my ATC Squadron was one of them, did one combat mission in the war, flew a Horsa on Op Varsity.

[NutLoose]

The Germans attempting to reinforce troops in Tunisia with the powered Gigant glider.

On the 22nd April 1943 the airlift programme from Sicily to Tunisia was brought to a dramatic halt when a fleet of 27 Me 323 transport planes was attacked by Allied fighters. Although escorted by German fighters they were little better than sitting ducks. 22 were shot down into the Mediterranean.

http://ww2today.com/22nd-april-1943-german-me-323-transport-planes-destroyed-over-mediterranean

[MAINJAFAD]

it wasn´t only the allied using gliders...

I've always loved Hanna Reitsch's comments about the Me-321, about 6.10 minutes into this video.

ykre9XC0Xac

[NutLoose]

Also if you look at a period image of a C-47 you will see a circle in all of the side windows, this was so the troops could stick their muskets out and do a bit of air to air combat if needed.

[Bing]

- Fairey Barracuda - entering service in 1943, so the most likely of the 3 suspects

Also known for its tendency to commit to a dive more than the crew would like. A solution was eventually found but a lot of crews were lost in the first year or so of operations.

[Buster Hyman]

My Uncle was a RAF glider pilot. Did all the pre D-day training but they stopped using them just prior to his mission I believe. Don't know what they did with him after that though.

Became an Optometrist after the War. I guess he wanted to make sure he properly read what he was signing up for in future!

[Tankertrashnav]

A lot of people will already know this, but as a captain in the Parachute Regiment, Richard Todd, the British film actor (of Dambusters fame) landed at Pegasus Bridge, where he eventually met up with Major John Howard, who led the glider assault, on the bridge. Todd played the part of Major Howard in the film The Longest Day, a nice touch by the casting director.

[ExAscoteer]

The GPR at Arnhem, suffered the highest casualty rate among all the 1st AB units during Market Garden, at around 90%

Indeed. If one wanders around the Oosterbeek War Cemetary (as I have done on several occasions) it is quote sobering just how many were GPR.

As a direct result many RAF pilots were seconded to the GPR for Op VARSITY (the Rhine crossing) including my late Father. This secondment was fairly 'robust' as my Father's memoirs record:

"As with 95% of successful candidates I graduated (from No 3 BFTS Miami Oklahoma) as a Sgt Pilot. My flying recommendations were: Fighter Low-Level, Fighter Medium-Level and Fighter High-Level as priorities 1,2 and 3. I had enjoyed my flying training and looked forward to Fighters!

It was at the NCO Pilots' pool at Harrogate when events put me on a different course. We were called to assembly where several high ranking Army Officers endeavored to recruit volunteers to transfer to the Army to become Glider Pilots!

Needless to say the Army Officers were booed off the stage, though a few lads did volunteer. Some 10 days afterwards we were called to assembly again, whereupon we were told: “You either accept secondment to the Glider Pilot Regiment, or you will be transferred to the army as Privates and sent to the Far East as Infantry!”


It is interesting to note that some 2/3 of the UK Glider Pilots on Op VARSITY were RAF. Indeed this is reflected in the casualty figures.

[ExRAFRadar]

Fascinating thread, thanks to the contributors

[ian16th]

Since I moved to my present home, I have had the pleasure & privilege of getting to know Alex Reith, an active member of the local SAAFA branch.

A top bloke, he still drives himself around in his Lexus.

Yes on D-Day, they were under instructions to get back to the beach and get a lift home, in case they had to do it all again.

Alex (92) returns to D-Day landing | South Coast Herald (http://southcoastherald.co.za/42187/alex-91-returns-to-d-day-landing/)
Golden Journo moment: Interviewing D-Day glider Alex Reith (http://www.africajournalist.org/d-day-glider-alex-reith/)
D-Day pilot recalls mighty force | IOL (http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/gauteng/d-day-pilot-recalls-mighty-force-1697230)
https://www.gov.uk/government/world-location-news/d-day-veteran-travels-to-normandy-for-the-70th-anniversary
https://www.google.com/search?q=alex+reith+glider+pilot&client=firefox-b&biw=1280&bih=526&noj=1&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiF7_Shq8vRAhUHDsAKHZVHDJMQsAQINw

[VX275]

The GPR losses figure for Market Garden includes those made POW, I'm friends with one who to this day has not forgiven the ******* Paras for not telling him they were leaving.
I always understood that the unit with the highest percentage losses killed during Market Garden was the RASC Air Despatchers.

[SASless]

The links will take you to the US Glider Pilots association website.

The second link is a copy of an After Action Report which is very interesting reading. The thought of being in an engine-less aircraft that is for sure going to be landing within a very short time of being released from the Tow Aircraft, and for sure into a aggressively defended LZ....must be something to consider both before your Takeoff....and after a successful landing.

The site contains some good Video's...and Audio recordings of interviews with Veterans of the Glider Force.


NWWIIGPA-8 MISSIONS (http://www.ww2gp.org/eight_missions.php)


http://www.ww2gp.org/images/eightmissions/slaughter-763x529-252x173.gif

[sled dog]

On my Sqdn at Binbrook early `60s was an " elderly " SAC with Pilots Wings. He had qualified as a glider pilot in late `44, but luckily for him never was needed. Left RAF but decided to re-enlist. Caused a few raised eyebrows when he first arrived. I think his name was George .

[Peter-RB]

My old Dad told me of a flight of the Beaus based on Malta or N Africa shooting down some 6 engined big ugly Me troop carriers, said the just folded up when hit across the wing area across the body..that must have been a terrible way to end ya life German or not..!

[Trim Stab]

My old Dad told me of a flight of the Beaus based on Malta or N Africa shooting down some 6 engined big ugly Me troop carriers, said the just folded up when hit across the wing area across the body..that must have been a terrible way to end ya life German or not..!

That would have been the two Me323's that were shot down by an eight-ship BF patrol (four canon versions and four torpedo equipped versions) in 1943. One 323 crashed on land near Maddalena (killing most of the crew and pax in a fireball). The other ditched just off the island of Caprera. It was re-discovered in 2012, lying in about 65m of water. I dived on it last year and is surprisingly intact. Obviously all the fabric and wood coverings are long gone, but the aluminium skeleton, engines and cockpit are structurally discernible. The thickness of the wings has to be seen to be believed. When the wings first loomed into view on the descent, I thought at first I was looking at the fuselage - it is possible to actually swim inside the wings. Apparently there are still some human remains visible so we did not disturb fuselage area.

[JohnDixson]

At the 2003 Paris Airshow, Dean Borgman our Sikorsky CEO had a great idea: take prospective S-92 owners on an airborne guided tour of the Normandy Beaches utilizing a prototype S-92, and then host a lunch at a large chateau/restaurant in the country outside Bayeux.

He engaged a licensed Normandy Beach Guide whose background was a UK history major wedded to a French schoolteacher. Since seeing the " Longest day " movie, I had been interested in D-Day and had read a few volumes re Omaha Beach and by chance the Stephen Ambose " Pegasus Bridge " book.

We spent one morning practicing the routine ( one thing that impressed at the outset was how far it was from the east end of the U.K. Beaches to the west end of Utah beach, but that leads to a different subject ).

Three areas really got our attention:

1. Omaha Beach. We started out 1/2 mile offshore, got down to 75-100 ft and proceeded in at 30-40 Kts. The small ridge that fronts the beach, when you think of lots of MG-42's etc., becomes absolutely scary. There is one book ( forgot the title ) that describes the small individual actions by which the surviving infantry got up that ridge, but damned if I know how they did it after looking at it head on and low.

2. The Pegasus LZ. No GPS, no pathfinders, no NVG's, ‘no nuttin’ except a wet compass and a watch to make the pre-planned and practiced turns to a final approach heading. That field is still there if you Google it. Five of the six ships got into the LZ ( the sixth landed about 7KM(?) away ). Some pretty special flying, and that is a huge understatement.

3. Point du Hoc. We hovered over the surf looking up at the cliff, and same as Omaha: the immediate reaction being, how in hell did they do what they obviously did?

Have ever since been very thankful that Dean Borgman had the idea. Even our licensed guide was blown away by the picture of these battle sites when looking at them from the attacking perspective and just elevated enough to get a longer view. The difficulty of the attacking forces becomes magnified well beyond what one imagines when reading the written versions. The reality of the Pvt Ryan movie opening scenes comes to mind.


The next day we did it with the guests and between the excellent and now very, very animated brief by our guide and the fantastic lunch in Bayeux, it was a good day.

We had rigged the machine in advance with an extended intercom system so that all pax had headsets and mics. The intercom communications were interesting. There were moments when everyone became dead quiet as the enormity of what they were looking at became clear.

[Cuillin Hills]

Agreed, in respect of the landing zone at Pegasus Bridge.

In the early 1980's, as a 17 year-old, I visited the bridge at Benouville (the original one before it was replaced) and noticed a rough track that led from the bridge and into an open field on the east bank.

Having walked a matter of a few yards there was a concrete obelisk. A short distance further on there was a similar obelisk. A third one lay further down the path.

Each obelisk had a small plaque on it and indicated where the nose of an inbound glider had come to rest.

Looking back at the bridge it was readily apparent just how much skill it had taken to put those gliders down so close to the bridge.

All completed in darkness, with a full load of troops, with no serious injuries and without alerting the guards on the bridge.

Incredible piece of airmanship.

[MightyGem]

The amazing thing is that I understand that, if they survived the landing, the pilots were expected to pick up an SMG and join the troops in the fight. Talk about multi-tasking!
AAC pilots are still "soldiers first".

[SASless]

The American Army embraced that concept when they concocted the "Air Assault" idea.....but instead of Gliders they decided to use Helicopters....and land on top of the enemy and do quick enough that the element of surprise would provide a tactical advantage for the assaulting troops.

It sounded good in the General's Mess I suppose.

It took a while before they came up with a Plan B in the event those who were supposed to be surprised and caught off guard....did not get that part of the brief.

Mind you....it would take a Blind Deaf person to miss the fact a flight of Thirty or so UH-1 Hueys were landing in the Garden.....and even then the Vibrations alone would give rise to some suspicion of something going awry.

I do wonder how you land six Gliders in the middle of the night within yards of the Sentries and they did not hear anything unusual?

[onetrack]

I do wonder how you land six Gliders in the middle of the night within yards of the Sentries and they did not hear anything unusual?
Cold weather, fatigue, lax sentries - and sentries only expecting enemy to appear from ground level. Hoods causing limited vision and reduced hearing ability.
I'd suspect sizeable numbers of troops suffered from an elevated level of hearing loss, caused by constant exposure to explosive and very loud noise.

I can remember my training Sgt (a Vietnam Vet) warning us of the potential dreadful penalties for being a lax sentry when on picket.
He related a story to us about how 13 U.S. servicemen were knifed to death in one camp when VC infiltrated it, due to lax sentries.
Could have been an apocryphal story, inflated to instill fear of sentry laxity into us rookies. I cannot find any online reference to such a large SVN death toll in one incident.

Thanks to those with the informative input into the thread re the gliders. I only knew a little about them previously, I always thought it would virtually rate as a suicide mission.

[Trim Stab]

Cold weather, fatigue, lax sentries - and sentries only expecting enemy to appear from ground level. Hoods causing limited vision and reduced hearing ability.
I'd suspect sizeable numbers of troops suffered from an elevated level of hearing loss, caused by constant exposure to explosive and very loud noise.

One German sentry did hear the first glider come in (the one carrying Howard) but he just assumed that an aeroplane had crashed and did not raise the alarm. By the time the other gliders landed it was too late.

[chevvron]

OB,
Ref the sqn of dive bombers:
- Brewster Buccanneer (Bermuda in UK service) - unlikely given the small number (5) used by the UK
- Fairey Albacore - unlikely, as by 1943 they were being retired from front-line duty rather than working up to it
- Fairey Barracuda - entering service in 1943, so the most likely of the 3 suspects.
Shouldn't the Blackburn Skua be on this list?

[BEagle]

Although the Skua was used as a dive bomber, it was the Barracuda which had a lethal reputation. After his time on Swordfish and Albacores, my brother's late god father flew them and told me that you had to be very careful entering the dive, but more so once the dive brakes were closed and the torpedo released - airflow disturbance over the high set tailplane could cause a significant pitching moment and you had to catch it quickly or the aircraft would depart from controlled flight.

The seabed off RNAS Crail must be littered with the wretched things...:uhoh:

[Wensleydale]

This photograph is from a few days after the landings - Pegasus bridge is to the left with Horsa bridge in the centre. The bridge assault gliders are still in position.


http://www.flamesofwar.com/Portals/0/all_images/Historical/D-1/Pegasus-Bridge-03.jpg

[Wensleydale]

...and a close up.


http://www.brigademodels.co.uk/mws/Galleries/Normandy/Cimg2736.jpg

[mmitch]

The original briefing model is displayed in the Airborne Forces display at IWM Duxford. I noticed that the one 'stray' glider landed near a smaller bridge so perhaps it saved a long walk. :)
mmitch.

[gliderkev]

"I do wonder how you land six Gliders in the middle of the night within yards of the Sentries and they did not hear anything unusual?"
While gliders do make some noise before touching down it is'nt really obvious until very close, even draggy aircraft like horsas and i would imagine there was quite a bit of AA fire going on to mask it. Go and stand at a gliding club and listen for a glider landing - until they open the airbrakes you will struggle with most types.

[Geriaviator]

As a youngster I remember seeing a Horsa descend from its Dakota tug during the 1950 Battle of Britain day at Binbrook. Its approach was so incredibly slow that I could have hit it with my catapult, and everyone wondered at the bravery of those who went to war in such flimsy aircraft.

Many years later, my engineering examiner and Air Registration Board surveyor C. H. Taylor had been a senior engineer with de Havilland and responsible for having 70 Tiger Moths on the line at a wartime basic training school. He told me that the first Army trainees from the Glider Pilots' Regiment were marched everywhere in steel-shod ammunition boots and were subject to strict discipline.

One trainee was about to enter the cockpit when an officer gave him an order. The lad saluted, screamed "SAH!" and crashed his heel smartly down as he sprang to attention, driving his boot clean through the plywood walkway and the fabric-covered wing beneath. After a similar incident the trainees were 'excused boots' for the rest of their training.

[VX275]

The American Army embraced that concept when they concocted the "Air Assault" idea


Surely you mean copied rather than concocted, unless of course they did it before France did it in North Africa and the UK at Suez in the 50's.

[Buster Hyman]

Found out a little more about my Uncle.

Joined in, roughly, '43 but we're not sure of his Glider activities. He did end up in Palestine after the War & has previously talked about guarding fallen soldiers over there that were victims of the Stern Gang.

Still looking into it...

[SASless]

Looking at the mass of Gliders in Wensleydale's photo.....it shows the importance of the Bridges and the effort made to relieve the Assault Force during the early hours of the invasion.

Lessons learned at D-Day seemed to have been lost at Arnhem with the Troops being dropped so far from the Bridge there.

[Pontius Navigator]

Surely you mean copied rather than concocted, unless of course they did it before France did it in North Africa and the UK at Suez in the 50's.
Or indeed the Wehermact at Fort Eben Emael Welcome to our website ? Fort Eben-Emael (http://www.fort-eben-emael.be/en/)

[Arthur Bellcrank]

Post #15
The photograph shows Sergeants Whawell and Turl of the Glider Pilot Regiment searching for snipers in the ruins of a destroyed school in Oosterbeck. Sergeant Turl on the right was killed a few days after this photograph was taken.


Further reading on the GPR, "Arnhem - The Battle for Survival" by John Nichol and Tony Rennell, and the excellent "A Street in Arnhem" by Robert Kershaw.