Historic Overweight C130 Incident

[Flyme2mars]

Some years ago, an RAF c130 took flight with the crew unaware of the true weight of the aircraft. Not sure of the details, but aircraft landed ok. Crew room chatter said it was the heaviest ever c130 flight and even Lockheed couldnt understand how it still flew.
Can anybody point me towards the report, or provide any information regarding the incidient?

[NavyNav2]

I do recall a C130K getting airborne out of Aki during GW1 when the movers had mixed up lbs and kgs and the crew became 'slightly' suspicious due to the length of the take off roll and the fact that that they failed to make FL240 by a several thousand feet.

[4mastacker]

In 1969, I recall a C130 landing at Fairford after a flight from Gibraltar and the aircraft's captain ordering every piece of freight to be re-weighed.

The vast majority of the cargo consisted of the PE's of a 1* Army officer. Quite a lot of the wooden crates were marked with a weight of 273lbs - which was the limit for PE boxes at the time. These large wooden crates took five of us to lift, never mind carry, (the aircraft was in clean floor fit) and were conveyed to the cargo shed where they were put on the scales. The aircraft captain logged the individual weights which showed that the total weight of the load was far in excess of the manifested weight.

Our resident customs officer was also present and he ordered all the crates to be opened when the contents of the overweight crates were revealed as rocks and stones of various colours and shapes. The cases also contained articles which attracted the attention of the customs officer, who impounded them in his own lock-up.

Another member of this forum was on a Fairford squadron at the time and he may recall this incident.

[November4]

I thought it was at Bahrain not AKT. The pallets had been transhipped from a TriStar to the Hercules. The T* had been converted to Kgs but the Hercs were still in lbs. The pallet weights were taken as being in kgs and converted to lbs but they had already been converted. So the load was double what it was manifested as. The Herc got off the ground....just, made a circuit and landed.

We all said it was an accident waiting to happen introducing the change over from lbs to kgs gradually, aircraft type by type rather than in a one hit.

[Art E. Fischler-Reisen]

That reminds me of the time I was bringing back a Puma from Gutersloh, to UK. I was tasked at short notice to additionally bring back some personal effects of a senior army officer. Two fully laden 4 tonne trucks appeared and I asked where the personal effects for us were. I was told by the driver that everything in both trucks was expected to go on! It looked like the entire contents of a married quarter including furniture and large tri wall boxes. Unfortunately we had a ferry tank inside plus some ground crew passengers. I took one look at the ridiculous load and refused the lot except for a few small boxes and a comfy swivel chair, which the crewman strapped down and happily sat in all the way back across the channel.

We also went through a time in Belize where a newly arrived army major convinced himself we were being over cautious about what we could carry for him on our regular flights from down south. He built a mini air terminal and insisted that every soldier and piece of equipment went on a set of scales. To his dismay and our benefit, it resulted in us carrying even less than before because the declared weights of much of the stuff we had been regularly flying was badly under-estimated.

[Herod]

IIRC from a looong time ago, at Habilayn, there was a case of a Wessex being loaded with (I think) Wombat rounds which weigh X lbs. The problem was that there were two to a pack...so. Mind you, the army has always considered a helicopter to be an airborne three-ton truck.

[West Coast]

Reports of C-130s taking off with in excess of 240 pax during operation frequent wind. I know the cargo load in question likely exceeded the pax weight, but it's one more testament to the strength of the Herk.

[ericferret]

I seen to recall that in the book "Herk, hero from the skies a Hercules is mentioned as getting off 10'000lbs overweight in Vietnam. Load was trucks which on further inspection, after the event, were found to be full of claymore mines.

[SASless]

The story of a a USAF crew carrying an ICBM from an airfield to re-work facility that wound up in the weeds due to a bit of confusion over the weight of the missile and crew coordination re Throttles is a good one.

Seems the manifest weight did not include the transport trailer.

Per cockpit drill the hands shift from Pilot to Co-Pilot to Flight Engineer went awry when the throttles crept back a tad as the Co-pilot took hold....and as the Captain decided the slow acceleration was due to that minor flaw....simultaneous to a rapidly approaching end of the Runway prompted the Co-pilot to reach for the Gear Lever so he could be quick with raising the gear.....as the Flight Engineer got hold of the Throttles while sensing there was not enough room left to get off the ground....said Captain yelled...."Takeoff Power!"...which the dutiful Flight Engineer did!

The terminology was changed to be "Maximum Power!".

[ancientaviator62]

I do remember the Fairford incident but had forgotten the details.
The GW1 incident came about because MOD insisted that a planned move from lbs to kgs for Hercules cargo went ahead. I phoned up the person responsible to get it delayed until after GW1 as the pressure on the movers etc was so great that there was bound to be an incident. His attitude was that this had been planned for years and it would go ahead. So we had our incident and at least one other 'near miss'.

[ksimboy]

The shut down checks at AKT were interrupted to allow the Captain to leave the flight deck to restrain the ALM from inflicting too much damage to the DAMO.

[Dougie M]

Morning boys.
Not an isolated incident but during Op Corporate several "overweight" take offs were authorised at 176k ramp weights. This huge zero fuel weight meant refuelling in Gib.
One notable event occurred with Lima Echo (no longer with us so no drinks penalty)as Eng.
The Herc became airborne due to the Gib runway suddenly ending and Albert proceeded towards Algeciras across the bay without gaining height and take off power still set. The Eng then noticing a needle flicker announced. "Abort abort" The pilots exchanged glances and sighed

[Jumping_Jack]

The shut down checks at AKT were interrupted to allow the Captain to leave the flight deck to restrain the ALM from inflicting too much damage to the DAMO


Maybe the ALM was just embarrassed that he had skimped on his own checks....:rolleyes:

[ancientaviator62]

JJ,
Under the RAF system the ALM is (or was) obliged to accept the weights presented to him. The same can be said for the movers unless a means of checkweighing the load was available. Away from a main base this was seldom the case. The big danger was tac onloads at another NATO base where everyone used kgs but the UK and the USAF.
The Herc tanker regularly operated at weights well in excess of the normal TOW.
But this was planned as were several of the other Corporate excesses.
When the lbs/kg rule appeared in build up to GW1 I put a warning note in the section 'Do you know' book. This was mandatory for my troops to read and sign before they set off. There were no excuses for non compliance !

[Davef68]

I thought it was at Bahrain not AKT. The pallets had been transhipped from a TriStar to the Hercules. The T* had been converted to Kgs but the Hercs were still in lbs. The pallet weights were taken as being in kgs and converted to lbs but they had already been converted. So the load was double what it was manifested as. The Herc got off the ground....just, made a circuit and landed.

We all said it was an accident waiting to happen introducing the change over from lbs to kgs gradually, aircraft type by type rather than in a one hit.

Would that not mean the Hercules would be lighter than manifested?

So T* has 100 kg load, that's approx 220lb. Herc takes pallet as being 220Kg, so converts to 484lb, when it's actually 260lb lighter?

[Wycombe]

This thread reminds me of the Herc test flight shown in an episode of the '80's "Test Pilot" series, made at ETPS Boscombe Down.

One of the trials was to establish the max load that could be airdropped from the (then new) Mk3 C130K.

The load was a large earthmover of some sort, mounted in an airdrop rig.

Several times the load was referred to as weighing 30 tonnes....somehow I doubt that Albert would have even got airborne if that was the case!

Even so, the cockpit clip showing how much the control column moved as the load travelled aft was interesting!

[Nomorefreetime]

6 x GE's and their beer chits will put any C130 overweight until the first night stop

[WE992]

The change from lbs to kgs was rather short sighted. Everybody involved in the C130 or VC10 could real off all the figures in lbs without referring to any AP. gs meant re-visiting the books. We still have the issues of converting lbs to kgs or kgs to lbs as the C-17 now operates in lbs unlike the rest of the ATF fleet.

[ExRAFRadar]

Slightly off topic.

I recall an incident in the book 'Chickenhawk' where an Army Huey disappeared into the jungles in Vietnam never to be found. Signal went round asking if anyone had anything on it.

Apparently there were so many Suppliers saying they all had loads of stuff on it some wag said something like 'No wonder it crashed it must have been carrying about 40 tons'

[BEagle]

Back in the days before 241OCU was destroyed, we started doing 'C-to-K' courses for 10 Sqn's first AAR crews as their C1s were converted to C1Ks.

Which meant we had to convert back to the VC10C1, as well as flying the VC10K2, K3 and anticipating the delivery of the K4. There were minor differences between the C1 and C1K, but the checklists and SOPs were different for the -C and the -K. As if that wasn't bad enough, the simulators weren't fully representative of either variant.

At least the checklists and SOPs were subsequently harmonised though, as far as possible.

Then the decision was made to metricate all VC10C1 aircraft. So at one point we had to cope with some which were metric and others which were imperial; I'm not sure, but I don't think that the metrication programme was part of the C1K conversion? At least all the K2/3/4 were metric.

I'm still amazed that there wasn't a serious lb / kg cock-up. If a lb load turned up for a metric aircraft on an AT/AAR task, we had to do the conversion manually - on the flight deck with a 'chocks time' to make... Which was great if the load sheet arrived late. Fortunately everyone coped but eventually all VC10s ended up as either tanker transports or pure tankers - all with metric units. But we also had to cope with receivers using lb, or kg - or even litres, in the case of the Mirage F1. It didn't help when, for example, an F-4 would ask for '4K' meaning 4000 lb rather than 4000 kg - the quaintly British unit of the 'kilopound' being the normal unit used by our AD mates at the time!

[NutLoose]

By the time the Flt Eng and then the Captain had asked me to chuck a bit of extra fuel on-board and hide it, the fuel state on the 10 was often higher than it was supposed to be.
The times I spent shoving fuel up the fin then transferring it back and so on until it just read zero ish and then back and forward between the wing tanks to get it reading correct quantityish, while losing and hiding the extra 1000Ibs. First thing the Eng did on take off was open the fin tank up and watch the centre miraculously top up.

[RedhillPhil]

I'm sure that I can recall reading that during the Berlin airlift a Dakota with a load of pressed Aluminium planking had a hell of a job getting then keeping airborne. Upon landing it was ascertained that the number of pieces of the Aluminium planking which equated to X lbs turned out to be steel planking which of course were many more lbs.

[Four Turbo]

I seem to recall: At the start of the Falklands affair we were not allowed to go above standard TOW (160,000 lbs?) out of Lyneham. There we were off over the hill with falling ground beneath us. So we had to put in to Gib for fuel. Gib takeoffs were authorised at 175,000 lbs, thus ensuring an exciting start across Algeciras Bay with the Spanish frontier looming. Never did understand the thinking behind those rules! Happy days.

[BEagle]

By the time the Flt Eng and then the Captain had asked me to chuck a bit of extra fuel on-board and hide it, the fuel state on the 10 was often higher than it was supposed to be.

:hmm:

I recall coming out of Dulles late one night, with a full load of pongos. When the Air Engineer checked the fuel, we were over max ramp weight... All because the bone idle GE hadn't been monitoring the refuelling panel to check that the fuel quantity from the bowser was being correctly loaded. Why he signed for more fuel than had been requested, I cannot imagine - I suspect he was hoping that no-one would notice...or care.

What to do now.... Fortunately we weren't over the MOS max ramp weight which had been approved for the South Atlantic around 20 years earlier, but that was a 'war only' clearance. So, 'invite' the GE to arrange for defueling to the correct weight, but keep the pongos on board as there would be less fatigue on the aircraft than if they all trooped out, bouncing the jet on its undercarriage as they went. It would also mean that they would be less grumpy!

Dulles weren't terribly happy at having to find a bowser though...

[Coltishall. loved it]

Same old same old.....Many people have been killed and will be killed due to psi and bar
being around 15 times higher. Not just inflating A/C tyres but all sorts of industry around the globe. It's going to take many years to resolve, as my mum still say's it's
70 deg out there and I say 21c. Anybody out there who is really fat? you are still, just Whatever scale you use will make you feel better?

[Tengah Type]

November 1963 in Borneo. A Single Engine Pioneer was operating at a 200 yd jungle strip up country. The payload of the SEP was 2000 lbs ( inc pilot and fuel ). Pilot is in seat about to start the engine, when an Infantry subaltern arrives and asks if it OK to put half a dozen Jerrycans in the back, as they are needed at the next destination.

Pilot agrees, and stays in his seat, the Jerrycans are loaded and strapped down in the back. Attempts Take-off but aircraft does not reach flying speed, aborts and runs off the end into the jungle. Wings pulled off in the impact but pilot uninjured. It transpired that the Jerrycans were full of water and the aircraft was 300 lbs overweight.

Hasty local purchase of all the bathroom scales that could be obtained, for issue to all fixed-wing and helo operating up country, with strict instructions on how to use them.

[Wander00]

Saw a mate at the supermarche petrol station putting air in the tyres of his Mondeo -"What pressure are you putting in ?" I asked. "30 psi"
"Well you have just put in 3 atmospheres, that is about 45 psi". Left him scratching his head. And gauge was in psi and atm too

[Herod]

I operated an aircraft years ago where we fuelled in litres, converted it to kg for the tech log and flt plan, the main tank gauges were in gallons, and the outboard gauges were in US gallons, both of which had to be converted again into kg for the contents check on the plan. Kept the brain active.

[Fareastdriver]

In China we ran a mix of AS332s. The ASIs could be in either knots or KPH, the altimeters in feet or metres with ATC allocating altitudes in metres, the RCDIs in ft/min or ms/sec and the pressure gauges in lbs/in or bars. Our loads were delivered in kilos and had to be converted to lbs.

Fortunately most of them had fuel gauges that with a flick of a switch read in either lbs or kilos.

[ancientaviator62]

TT, Your post neatly illustrates my point in #14.

[RAF_Techie101]

I recall coming out of Dulles late one night, with a full load of pongos. When the Air Engineer checked the fuel, we were over max ramp weight... All because the bone idle GE hadn't been monitoring the refuelling panel to check that the fuel quantity from the bowser was being correctly loaded. Why he signed for more fuel than had been requested, I cannot imagine - I suspect he was hoping that no-one would notice...or care.

What to do now.... Fortunately we weren't over the MOS max ramp weight which had been approved for the South Atlantic around 20 years earlier, but that was a 'war only' clearance. So, 'invite' the GE to arrange for defueling to the correct weight, but keep the pongos on board as there would be less fatigue on the aircraft than if they all trooped out, bouncing the jet on its undercarriage as they went. It would also mean that they would be less grumpy!

Dulles weren't terribly happy at having to find a bowser though...

Had to find a solution to a similar solution in Bermuda a few years ago when a structural fuel leak necessitated fully draining the aircraft. No defuelling facilities available, and definitely none that would take 72 tonnes. We proceeded to increase the island's carbon footprint somewhat by burning the stuff in a corner of the airfield over the course of 2 days. Not in a bonfire either.

[NutLoose]

Had to find a solution to a similar solution in Bermuda a few years ago when a structural fuel leak necessitated fully draining the aircraft. No defuelling facilities available, and definitely none that would take 72 tonnes. We proceeded to increase the island's carbon footprint somewhat by burning the stuff in a corner of the airfield over the course of 2 days. Not in a bonfire either.


When Hunting were shutting up shop, they had the damned Electra's sitting on the compass bay burning and turning for the same reason, day in and day out, and I wasn't talking about a lone aircraft, they simply had nowhere to put it and their bowser was being sold empty!.

The worst I saw weight wise were Nigerian's and we were banned from assisting them because we could become liable if anything happened, they used to stock up on anything that was hard to come by at home from cases of bog roll to sanitary products and nappies.
I watched them fill a Lear 35 and I mean fill, until the poor thing was groaning at the seams, they left a gap at the front about a foot high and lifted the pilot in so he could slide across all of this stuff and drop into the cockpit.
It departed to Stanstead I think to refuel, and upon landing, the nose wheel steering system gave up the ghost because of the weight it was trying to turn, we had an Engineer who was told to travel down to look at it, he refused as overtime meant he ended up losing money because of the tax, he was told it was his job on the line and was told he would go take a look or be sacked.... fair play he did just that, arrived, walked up to the aircraft, took a look, agreed with the pilot, it was indeed U/S and departed for home leaving the pilot and dead aircraft behind for the weekend...... oddly enough they never tried to send him again.. :E

The other that stands out was a Nigerian King Air, they used to arrive, the crew would get in, the cabin was filled with everything including TV's all the way to the back bog, the Eng would then sit on the said bog and extra stuff was packed in to the door.. often they would still be left with the odd item they couldn't physically get in, but it wasn't for trying, it would then depart..

Some of the stuff we used to get was something else, we did a Nigerian HS125 and the first thing we did was call Rentokil, they would toss a bug bomb inside it then leave it a couple of days, they were something else, I mean a lot of the screws in the leading edges were predrilled, IE they had drilled the knackered screws out and used an easy out to get them out...... then an easy out to reinstall them!!!!! ahhh happy days.


..

[ancientaviator62]

I understand the USA lost a space probe due to a lbs/kg cock up. When discussing overweight situations it may be that the a/c is also outside the C of G limits. So if the added weight does not kill you then the C of G excess may.

[BEagle]

ancientaviator62, the US cock-up was because Lockheed Martin used imperial units when NASA used metric. So on 23 Sep 1999, the US lost a $125 million spacecraft somewhere over Mars...

CNN - Metric mishap caused loss of NASA orbiter - September 30, 1999 (http://edition.cnn.com/TECH/space/9909/30/mars.metric.02/)

:rolleyes:

[westhawk]

I've always liked the story of the "last Herk out of Saigon (http://www.913ag.afrc.af.mil/News/tabid/1866/Article/674166/last-herk-out-of-vietnam.aspx)".

[Heathrow Harry]

Redphil - my old man told the story of a lb kg problem on airstrip planking as a Dakota going into Imphal Kohima after the battle - he was out there in 1945 and left the RAF long before Berlin so I assumed he was correct

[NutLoose]

Didn't they lift some portacabin for the Pongoes out in NI up a hill and after working out the weight decided they could do it with a reduced fuel load, upon attempting the lift it wouldn't budge, landing on, it was found the RSM had decided they might as well carry a few other things they needed, so had filled it with furniture etc.

[NutLoose]

Husband, wife and 5 kids in a Birdog.

The Opportunity to Make History: Vietnam War Hero?s Flight to Freedom Remembered | Naval Historical Foundation (http://www.navyhistory.org/2014/04/the-opportunity-to-make-history-vietnam-war-heros-flight-to-freedom-remembered/)


Chinooks were first used in combat in 1965 during the Vietnam conflict. During the last days of the war, one Chinook is reported to have carried 147 refugees in a single lift.

[Autobahnstormer]

I'm surprised that nobody has yet mentioned the Gimli Glider. A new Air Canada Airbus, the Captain had mixed up Lbs of fuel, Litres and Kgs. It was cruising along quite happily then it all went quiet, he deadstick landed it on an old disused airfield while a stock car race was underway.

ABS

[JW411]

The Air Canada Airbus was heavily disguised as a Boeing 767 for the event.

[DCThumb]

Wasn't there also a GW1 Mk1 Bomb tails v Mk2 tails incident - the Muppets didn't have a weight for the Mk2 so they used the Mk 1 weight - the Mk2 weighed considerably more. I remember flying with the Captain Rick P**** who told me that they had never flown @ 155/175000lbs before and just thought it was normal.

Of course, I might be mixing stories as a lot of brain cells have died since then....

[bspatz]

I recall an incident a Laarbruch in the early 70's when the captain of a Belfast returning a squadron from detachment asked for the load to be checked as he could not make his planned altitude on the way back. This revealed that all the equipment being moved was on the manifest except the 5 or 6 S type trolleys that it was loaded on.

[JW411]

That was me! XR369 Decimomannu to Laarbruch 27.10.1972.

[NutLoose]

I recall an incident a Laarbruch in the early 70's when the captain of a Belfast returning a squadron from detachment asked for the load to be checked as he could not make his planned altitude on the way back. This revealed that all the equipment being moved was on the manifest except the 5 or 6 S type trolleys that it was loaded on.

This months Aeroplane Magazine or Flypast, has a story in it from a Shackleton Pilot who upon arriving at a USA airfield was requested to climb from 2000 feet up to 3000 feet, pointing out it had taken them the complete Atlantic crossing to get it up to 2000 feet, they were told to hold at their current height. :E

[westhawk]

Reminds me of the story in Fate is the Hunter when Gann nearly took out the Taj Mahal with an overfueled C-87.

[ShyTorque]

I once had the opposite problem (so did everyone else on the task). We were on a multi-aircraft Cold War exercise. The squadron task was to fly underslung loads from one field location to another, by night. The loads were a number of Rapier ground to air missiles in transit cases. These loads were classified as "cleared loads" which meant that JATE had carried out flight trials and the weights, rigging details, maximum flight speeds etc. were laid down in the military helicopter underslung loads manual so we planned our (reduced) fuel loads accordingly.

That night there was a strong wind blowing, against us on the load carrying leg. About 45 to 50 kts at our flight altitude of about 1,000 feet agl. Not normally an issue, except one had to bear in mind that the Puma was normally short of fuel before takeoff even with full tanks!

This shouldn't have been a problem; it was all planned for. However, when we picked up the loads it was noted from the collective pitch used to hover with them hanging underneath that they were much lighter than notified. Because the loads were so light they wouldn't fly above about 55 kts before becoming totally unstable and swinging very violently, so 55 kts IAS it had to be; not 90 as planned for! Cue a long night stream of half a dozen Pumas trogging along into wind but making very little headway. I watched two of the formation chicken out due to fuel shortage on sighting someone's NATO "T" down below. Being braver and probably more stupid than I am now, in view of the perceived value and military sensitivity of the load, I carried on and got the load to intended destination with both fuel low level lights on.

A later investigation discovered that the Army hadn't actually put any missiles in the boxes. They should have ballasted the boxes with sandbags to make up the equivalent weight but didn't bother. I nearly bust my backside for a few empty boxes! :*

[Tengah Type]

Borneo Dec 1963
The Army made a booking for 7 REs and hand tools to be taken to a strip upcountry, the load is suitable for a Twin Pioneer, so it is duly tasked. The load arrives at Brunei in a 4 ton truck, and turns out to be 10 pax plus compressors, pneumatic drills, chain saws, jerrycans of petrol etc. The load is checked and found to be 3 times the payload available on that route. Captain info's young RE officer of the problem. The RE knows that there are 14 seats in the TwinPin so can not see a problem. Captain explains that with weight of the aircraft and crew and round trip fuel that payload is what it is. The RE has the answer to that problem. " Only take fuel for the inbound leg and refuel when you get there." Captain explains that there is no fuel at destination. RE replies," Put it in jerrycans and take it with you!" Crew dissolve into fits of laughter and RE Sgt says " Excuse me Sir, could I have a word".

[dagama]

Four Turbo - AOC did not wish to authorise MOS at home base but deemed it ok to have a swim out of Gib. Spent harrowing minutes waiting to run out of concrete at 175K AUW! 2 internal tanks at 7.5K each gave another 15K of fuel.

Then had 4 internals for the long range trips out of ASI. Lurched off the runway and then ended up at 2000ft above the S Atlantic at the bottom of the toboggan.

Happy days as you say!!

[Wander00]

Tengah - that is more coffee down the keyboard.......nice laugh to go to bed on - thanks

[SASless]

I carried 138 Rice Pickers plus our crew of 5 in an A Model Chinook....Vietnamese rice farmers are short and skinny ....most with the black pajamas and bare feet. The old girl would have not have gone far if we had lost an engine!

The loading technique was Troop seats folded...pack the cabin full...keep the Ramp level....load it to capacity...taxi forward and jam on the brakes and raise the Ramp.

HSE folks would have had conniption fits!




Husband, wife and 5 kids in a Birdog.

The Opportunity to Make History: Vietnam War Hero?s Flight to Freedom Remembered | Naval Historical Foundation (http://www.navyhistory.org/2014/04/the-opportunity-to-make-history-vietnam-war-heros-flight-to-freedom-remembered/)


Chinooks were first used in combat in 1965 during the Vietnam conflict. During the last days of the war, one Chinook is reported to have carried 147 refugees in a single lift.

[tartare]

Operation Solomon (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFhWkJQ_L5I) anyone?
Shots of the 747s, but not `the one' as far as I can see.
1089 on board.
Wasn't there a C-5 that carried a huge number of vietnamese during the war?

[Heathrow Harry]

Seem to remember Conellan (DC-3) and Qantas (707 & 747) moved a hell of a lot of people out of Darwin post the Cyclone in 1974

[tartare]

Interesting - didn't know that.
Can any Aussie old hands shed more light on the post Cyclone Tracy airlift?

[Tengah Type]

Its not just our army colleagues who cause problems.

I had a DAMO at AKT who sent an ASMA ( Stone age email ) message to Gp Capt Movements at HQ 2 Group to complain about the AARC who insisted on loading 30 tonnes of "totally unnecessary" fuel on a Tristar, going to UK, and preventing him from loading any freight. This was on a Tanker Trail!!

He then compounded his problems by sending a second ASMA message to the Gp Capt Movements about the "stupidity" of the AARC who did not know that there were 2.2 kg in a lb.!!

However, when I went back a month later he did apologise and buy me a beer.

[John Eacott]

Interesting - didn't know that.
Can any Aussie old hands shed more light on the post Cyclone Tracy airlift?

Use the search, Luke....

Cyclone Tracy 1974 (http://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/473329-cyclone-tracy-1974-a.html)

[Heathrow Harry]

Amzing stuff in that thread - did they ever produce a book as some people were talking about??

[Four Turbo]

Dagama. How is it AOC was able to risk us without any complaint from our bosses? (Or not one that I heard). I asked and was told to shut up and get on with it (MOS out of Gib but not Lyneham). Furthermore MOS out of base would have enabled us direct Dakar some days without dicing with death over Algeciras Bay. Happy days.

[Heathrow Harry]

there was a war (or rather "police action") on at the time - everything goes out the window at that point

[Davef68]

I carried 138 Rice Pickers plus our crew of 5 in an A Model Chinook....Vietnamese rice farmers are short and skinny ....most with the black pajamas and bare feet. The old girl would have not have gone far if we had lost an engine!

The loading technique was Troop seats folded...pack the cabin full...keep the Ramp level....load it to capacity...taxi forward and jam on the brakes and raise the Ramp.

HSE folks would have had conniption fits!

Chinooks seem to be good at that. Was it not estimated that BN lifted 80 fully equipped Paras by similar method during the Falklands contratemps?

[Mogwi]

Chinooks seem to be good at that. Was it not estimated that BN lifted 80 fully equipped Paras by similar method during the Falklands contratemps?

I think you might find that it was Ghurkas on the way to Bluff Cove. Still pretty good going though.

[eard]

Situation - 2 x C130 AKT to Tabuk G1 supplying fast pointy things with bomb tails, I was operating the second. Presented with satisfactory trim sheet, fuel flow ignition etc. During line up, cable raised so taxi fwd because the book said we could.:)

Mission - Clear Take off and away we go.....bit slow on acceleration but seemed OK, V1 then VR but quite close to the end of the runway and a significant pull force required to select the attitude - bit odd.:rolleyes:

Execution - Managed 2 cups of tea as we staggered towards cruise alt which was well bellow planned level. Lot of furious number checking all around leading to the conclusion that we were quite possibly operating a little above MOS limits:eek: Oh and we need wing relieving fuel which we do not have :uhh:More number crunching decision to proceed to Tabuk as least damaging option.

QuestionsMk1 bomb tails are 50% lighter than Mk2 bomb tails and good old movers used wrong figure and did not check weigh load.:ugh:

Lessons Obvious really, never assume........
Happy flying!

[carlos755]

I seem to remember this too..pity the RAF never used the acceleration check time graph in the #1#1. Everyone else on the planet seemed to use it but Lyneham seemed to know better...

[Davef68]

I think you might find that it was Ghurkas on the way to Bluff Cove. Still pretty good going though.
Thanks Mogwi, you were there - Although in my defence, the RAF webpage does say Paras, I checked there first!

On 2 June 1982, two companies of paratroops were flown from Goose Green to seize the settlement of Fitzroy. Eighty-one Paratroopers squeezed into Bravo November which is twice the normal capacity. Once landed, Bravo November returned to Goose Green to pick up a second load of seventy-five paratroopers.RAF - Royal Air Force CH47 Chinook 'Bravo November' (http://www.raf.mod.uk/news/royalairforcech47chinookbravonovember.cfm)

[eard]

Carlos
Not sure an acceleration graph would have separated the Hercules "stunning performance" with this scenario near the WAT limit but you never know!