Poland to Buy 96 F-16s??

[ORAC]

Story in Alert 5 - Linked to original Polish story. Maybe someone can translate.

Alert 5: Poland exploring the possibility of buying up to 96 second-hand F-16s

Poland is reported to be exploring the possibility of buying up to 96 second-hand F-16s and to overhaul and upgrade them in the country.

F-16 z drugiej ręki dla Polski. MON planuje zakup 96 myśliwców z odzysku (http://biznes.gazetaprawna.pl/artykuly/1009284,mon-zakup-nowych-mysliwcow-f-16-dla-polskiej-armii.html)

The Defence Ministry is considering the purchase of 96 used American fighters. Their modernization would have to take place in our country. If the plan is implemented, we will be amongst the forefront air forces NATO countries. This will also change our power in relation to Russia, where a key military doctrine is to gain advantage in the air.

[Rhino power]

In addition to the 40+ Block 52 C/D's they already have, another 96 would make for quite a tidy fleet and maybe make retirement of the MiG-29 and SU-22's possible?

-RP

[Just This Once...]

Keep hearing a total fleet of circa 100 plus a sustainment margin, the size of which seems linked to final cost. MiG-29 to go as soon as possible but I've not heard of the planned demise of the SU-22 though, but can see the logic of it. The crews seem to have quite a soft-spot for the SU-22, so they may have to wrestle them from them. Not much love remaining for the MiG-29, to say the least.

[Finningley Boy]

Why's that JTO? I wish nostalgia for aircraft types in the RAF was a key consideration, just think, Lightnings and Javelins operating alongside Phoons and Tonkas!:8

FB:)

[Just This Once...]

I've no idea why the crews are so attached to the SU-22 but they seem happy enough every time the out-of-service date is pushed back a little.

[Finningley Boy]

Could it be the old Jack of all Trades master of none argument? i.e. SU-22 is a better soil buster than the F-16 when all said and done?

Mind you I can see how more F-16s of any vintage is preferential to retaining a small number of Mig 29s, rather like the German story with their Migs.

FB:)

[peter we]

retaining a small number of Mig 29s, rather like the German story with their Migs.

It became a Polish story with their MiG's,the Germans donated the entire fleet to Poland for 1 euro.

[glad rag]

Could it be the old Jack of all Trades master of none argument? i.e. SU-22 is a better soil buster than the F-16 when all said and done?



FB:)

Depends how you rework them.

[Madbob]

I wonder what kind of deal SAAB might be willing to do to offer Poland surplus early generation JAS 39 C/D Griphens as it plans to replace its early purchase with new generation E/F's.


I appreciate that Poland is an existing F16 operator and that may sway their thinking but the Griphen is a worthy competing option as I suspect that any ex USAF F16's will have been worked hard and that the Griphen fleet that Sweden may have to sell will have a relatively quiet life on mainly domestic Air Defence duties/sortie profiles.


MB

[ORAC]

I suspect that, given the increased perceived threat, and if they come from mothballed USAF airframes, they wont be paying much, if anything, for them.

[Just This Once...]

The F-16 is a very good fit for Polish needs with a vast array of weapon clearances with a clear development path and predictable maintenance & sustainment costs. That they are relatively cheap will not upset the bean-counters and as mentioned above you can expect quite a lot of political good will from the USG.

Whilst Typhoon and Gripen are highly capable aircraft don't underestimate the advantages of buying into such a large F-16 community and the speed at which the USAF system can train a few squadrons worth of pilots and maintainers. Of course, when your requirements can be satisfied with secondhand aircraft there are very few aircraft types out there that you can rapidly buy around 100 aircraft - the Typhoon and Gripen fleets just do not have that number of spare aircraft kicking around.

[ORAC]

165 x F-16C and 15 x F-16D currently in storage at AMARC.

[air pig]

I wonder what kind of deal SAAB might be willing to do to offer Poland surplus early generation JAS 39 C/D Griphens as it plans to replace its early purchase with new generation E/F's

I suspect with all the present tensions the Swede's will want to keep them themselves.

[SkyHawk-N]

165 x F-16C and 15 x F-16D currently in storage at AMARC.

A large number of those airframes have been earmarked for the QF-16 drone program.

[recceguy]

given the increased perceived threat

"perceived" is the important word. It's true that so many terror attacks have been performed in the European streets by that "perceived" , so many invaders come through the Mediterranean originate from this "perceived" , so many religious buildings are from that "perceived" origin, so many schools and suburbs are currently invaded all across Europe by this "perceived" ....

Might be that it all could change within a couple of weeks - just a hint.

[Just This Once...]

Perceived is a rather generous term given the near-perpetual conflicts Russia has found itself in whilst trying to exercise control of its self-appointed sphere since 1991. The only bit of variety has been Russia shelling itself in 1993 and the new habit of deploying military units with no insignia and denying all responsibility for them until the conflict is over. Not exactly abiding by the rules of war, international law or a brace of conventions is it?

[tdracer]

A large number of those airframes have been earmarked for the QF-16 drone program.
My understanding is those airframes are also basically out of cycles and would require major structural upgrades before they'd be suitable for air combat.
By the time they're done with the needed structural mods and updating to 21st century avionics, it's difficult to see much cost savings vs. buying the rights and building new aircraft under license...