Bodily Functions on FJ Ferry Flights ?

[Fonsini]

So at the risk of revealing all kinds of "they had to put a new ejection seat in" type stories, how exactly do fighter/attack flight crews cope with the biological demands of long distance ferry flights in smaller aircraft - Ascension to MPA in a Typhoon for example.

I may as well throw in the one story I know of in that "vein". Australian AF Mirage IIIs on detachment to Kuala Somewhere and the guys went for a night out and ended up eating a decent sized portion of the local curry. The next day they were scheduled for 1-v-1 ACM and our man taxied out with some serious gurgles going on - at the merge he rolled 90 degrees and pulled hard, the g inflated his g suit belly bladder and the force of that turned him into a giant fecal matter water pistol, evidently it went everywhere and the call to 'knock it off' was instantaneous.

Feel free to educate me on both the mechanics of such things during longhaul flights, and any horror stories you may have.

[Treble one]

Lady drivers wear nappies IIRC?


Male drivers have piddle packs for no 1's as well I believe?

[Willard Whyte]

I gave a pair of Jag jocks a couple of imodium at Lajes a few years back. Apparently made the crossing to Halifax more civilised in the cockpit.

[Above The Clouds]

My longest ferry 15:20hrs its amazing what you can get in to a water bottle :ooh:

[NutLoose]

I won't mention the used condom found under the seat of a 20 Sqn Jag after transiting back from Red Flag... The said item I believe was returned to the W*nker (Pun intended) later at a dining in night.

[Pontius Navigator]

At least goon suits are water proof.

Air tight too but disgusting when you take them off after 15 hours plus.

[Mogwi]

Never caught short personally but there is a lovely story around Ark's last East of Suez cruise. One pilot had a skin full heading through the Med and threw up over the side of his bunk. In the morning, he was surprised not to find his supper on the deck but assumed he had cleared it up and not remembered.

8 months later, passing through Gib, with the sea temp dropping, he went to put on the goon suit that had been hanging next to his sink - and put his foot in it!

[Lima Juliet]

A few stories...

An F-14 Exchange Radar Intercept Officer (RIO) had a curry in the delightful Shalimar the night before the trail home from Akrotiri. Somewhere over the Mediterranean he had to ask the pilot to put his ejection seat pins and he put his in. Then he proceeded to undress in the back cockpit of the F3 and deficate in one of the white packed lunch boxes. Apparently, to his credit, he did not make any mess in the cockpit. If I recall correctly someone rolled inverted over the top of the jet to get a photo for the Sqn diary.

Lady Navigator issued a nappy and tried to use it over the desert but many years of toilet training meant that she just couldn't wet herself. So the kind Squippers made her up a device by gluing an oxygen mask to a length of oxygen hose and blanked off the rest of the holes: "Hey Presto!" She could now use the gents pee bags. It worked in a similar way to the white "Lady J" adaptor to the light aircraft's "Little John" pee bottle in the picture below:

http://www.sportys.com/media/catalog/product/1/3/13088_3.jpg

Another funny one. Whilst operating as a 4-ship of F3s somewhere in the Atlantic off the coast of Portugal the lead Nav gets a call of nature where the "turtle is starting to get inquisitive!". We have all been eating lots of spicey Tapas and washing it down with Gallons of Baileys in the local riverside bars in Seville for the past fortnight and most of us are not having to push to hard to evacuate our bowels! Anyway, the pilot declares to the Portuguese controller that he has an in-flight emergency with his navigator and requests direct track to Moron AFB where we are operating from - the controller is very helpful and we make a 550-600kts transit direct line as a 4-ship. On the tactical inter formation frequency everyone is chatting to the stricken Nav who explains that he is about to explode in his immersion "goon" suit that we are wearing as we are operating so far out in the ocean. All is going well until we we break into the circuit at the airfield and the Nav yells on frequency "it's too late!". The engineers are listening to the tactical ops frequency and know what is wrong so they meet the Navigator at the bottom of the aircraft steps with a water fire-hose and push it in past his neck seal and turn it in full blast. Result - Navigator now clean...

On TACEVAL I was scrambled and went to the tanker about 2 times. Not expecting this I hadn't had my pre-sortie pee. I told the handling pilot that I needed to go and neither of us had pee bags so he said he would take it easy. Somewhere near Flamborough Head, he spotted a 4 ship of Jags en route at low level towards Coltishall. Exclaiming "Targets of Opportunity" he rolled and pulled towards them. The pain in my bladder/sphynchter was excruciating and promptly put my arm/hand out to grab something and pushed the glass into the radar display and broke it - as we unloaded and rolled out I said, "mate, I think we need to knock it off I've just broken the screen in the back and there is glass everywhere". That did the trick and I had a pee in the Hardened Aircraft Shelter (HAS) drain within 15 minutes!

Finally, I flew with a pilot who needed to go for a pee ~6 times on a 10 1/2 hour transit from Alaska to UK. He had to reuse his 2 pee-bags and one of my 2 as well! So it is quite common to use these on a transit for some.

LJ

[Lordflasheart]

In the old days, the Pilot's Mate would clean it up for half a crown.

[Lima Juliet]

Never caught short personally but there is a lovely story around Ark's last East of Suez cruise. One pilot had a skin full heading through the Med and threw up over the side of his bunk. In the morning, he was surprised not to find his supper on the deck but assumed he had cleared it up and not remembered.

8 months later, passing through Gib, with the sea temp dropping, he went to put on the goon suit that had been hanging next to his sink - and put his foot in it!

Similar story when doing QRA in the Falklands and 'Bondu' the 1435Flt cat (and chief rat/mouse catcher) pee'd into one of the crew's goon suits that we used to leave on the floor in the corridor for quick access and plenty of room to put on (the rooms were a bit pokey). During one scramble the pungent essence of 'tomcat' was apparent as one unlucky sole had to put on his goon suit and fly in it for a few hours!

LJ

[Wensleydale]

I won't mention the used condom found under the seat of a 20 Sqn Jag after transiting back from Red Flag... The said item I believe was returned to the W*nker (Pun intended) later at a dining in night.


I did hear that flying a Jaguar was a bit like knocking one off....it is great while you are at it, but if your friends find out about what you do then it can cause quite a bit of embarrassment.

[longer ron]

Slight thread drift but after I left the RAF (1983) I had a 12 month gliding holiday in Africa,I also used to do some 'work breaks' on the local AF Hawks (T mk60) as a civvy.Anyway - one day I had to replace a tailplane PCU (power control unit/actuator) - the job made more interesting by the lack of a hyd rig or proper tools - because we were a bit out in the sticks.After I signed the job up - the Boss (Sqn Ldr) asked me if I was happy with the job owing to the lack of tech support and I gave my standard answer of " I would be absolutely happy to do the Air Test with you" :)
He replied that was impossible as he had a student to fly with the next day.
Anyway - next day dawns and the stude was sick/unfit to fly and the Boss said to me "still wanna go ?" - Of course says I.
So off we go for a real fun trip inc spinning and high mach number dive and also 'bouncing' a couple of his studes :)
In Africa I did suffer occasionally with the squits and towards the end of this Hawk flight I did start to have 'that feeling in the old bowels' but I managed to hang on as we 'beat up' the Hunter sqn line LOL.
But after we shut down I quickly unstrapped,ran along the main spar,jumped off the wingtip and carried on to the trap - which fortunately was free.
After I had 'logged in' the Boss said that I should have told him - but I had correctly surmised that it would be my only chance of a jet flight out there :ok:

[Tiger G]

Well, we all know these threads aren't complete without the classic :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwCAiF61lM0

:uhoh:

[5aday]

Nowhere near as valiant as you chaps I used to ferry aeroplanes - namely the Twin Otter - from Downsview, Toronto and one one occasion I brought my CAA Ops Inspector for the ride. I planned to transit at fl200 ish but John Mitchell was an inveterate smoker so I made for the occasional nicotine break for him and switched the oxy system off. He started drinking fizzy drinks as well, probable dehydration from a night in Gander. The toilet bin was right down the back and he had to climb over the nine drum quick disconnect fuel system. My big worry he would become hypoxic as the only breathing set was in the cockpit. This went on for about six of the eight hours or so with a cigarette btween each of the 90 minute Pee breaks.
We did a low ils overshoot from Kef into Reyjkavik and John offloaded all his salmon into the hotel freezer. Approaching STY the next day he realized it was still there so I believe the CAAFU 125 did a couple of circuits at Reyjkavik a few days later and brought the salmon home. Quite happy days ferry flying.

[Stitchbitch]

Leon I was reading this thread last night and recalled the story...said USN exchange guys pops into our flying clothing bay on his return and asks for new flying gloves. "What did you do with the last pair we gave you?" I'm not sure we were quite ready for that reply though!

Using a wee bag even when stood up in the rear of HMs slowest twin prop is an unusual experience and not easy to do when the stick monkey carries out a 'full and free check' just after flow starts. ;)

[NutLoose]

ady Navigator issued a nappy and tried to use it over the desert but many years of toilet training meant that she just couldn't wet herself. So the kind Squippers made her up a device by gluing an oxygen mask to a length of oxygen hose and blanked off the rest of the holes: "Hey Presto!" She could now use the gents pee bags. It worked in a similar way to the white "Lady J" adaptor to the light aircraft's "Little John" pee bottle in the picture below:

Well I am glad they took the mike out :p

[The Oberon]

There were a lot of steamy lunch boxes arrived back at Ascension following long trails during Corporate.

[Fonsini]

I won't mention the used condom found under the seat of a 20 Sqn Jag after transiting back from Red Flag... The said item I believe was returned to the W*nker (Pun intended) later at a dining in night.
I'm still having trouble absorbing this one - surely being caught pleasuring oneself in flight and then leaving "evidence" in the cockpit is an instant Section 8 and a serious chat with the AOC ??

[Quietplease]

Long before immodium. 1959 Aden to Akrotiri in a PR7. Nav not feeling too good so hopped along to sick quarters who gave him a quart of kaolin and morphia. Couple of hefty swigs and off we went. Luckily navigation not too hard. West to Nasser's Rock, north to El Adem then right a bit to Cyprus.
Empty bottle when we arrived. Would swear his blue eyes were still brown a week later.

[noflynomore]

I once had the privilege of having the run of a field full of late '40s and '50s a/c, mainly transport types. Among these several had pee tubes in the cockpit, a rubber hose with a long funnel-shaped rubber attachment on the end. I'm pretty sure some of the C47s had them, the Skyraider, Catalina and maybe some of the smaller WW2 bombers too - B25? Many aircraft had them. I was told you either tested them before flight with a coke bottle full of water or used them at your peril as any ground crew you might have upset had a simple remedy to get you back!

On a similar vein in the early days of immersion suits on the N Sea they initially weren't personal issue. You got handed one before boarding on the outbound leg and on arrival there was a scramble below the deck to shuck them off and hand them over to the offgoing crew. This was all very well except that some of the guys used to spend their last night of leisure in the all night fishermen's bars at Footdee. Being stuck in a goonbag for two hours up to some of the further rigs caught out not a few but there was no option for them. Neither was there an option for the poor offgoing sod who got handed this treasure - if he wanted to go on leave that day...Yekk!

[MACH2NUMBER]

Did some very long ones, in fast jets, and although I experienced the agonies of hell on occasion, I never used a p bag. I did nearly lose my Boss over France as he struggled to relieve himself and in doing so lost the formation, by about 12 miles!

[Jobza Guddun]

Leon/Stitch,

As I recall the Sqn scribe made suitable mention in the Station rag, hilarious! No names but it was clearly from a cast of one!

[F-16GUY]

Fonsini,

To answer your original question, we use these Uridom's and bags from Coloplast. This is a system used for years in hospitals where some patients are unable to get out of bed.

The Uridom is like a condom with a hose connection on the tip. It is held in place by a self adhesive strip and is very easy to use. You dont need to strap out of the seat to use it as long as you have "installed" it before the flight. It takes a little getting used to just to "let go" and pee, but it works like a charm.

The bags can be daisy chained so you dont need to change them when full. The F-16 has two small compartments below the seat to fit in the bags.

Some pilots refuse to use them as they consider them to be uncool. Me, I dont care, as long as I dont piss on myself, the seat or the rest of the cockpit.

https://www.coloplast.no/-global/continence/conveen-losning/

War stories....

Using the old piddlepack type bag in the F-16, I learned to close the fresh air vent just in front of the seat handle before urinating. Keep it open and its like taking a piss upwind if you miss the bag. Luckily my visor was down....

[Bevo]

There are of course inherent dangers. :uhoh:

The pilot of an Air Force F-16 was trying to urinate in a cockpit device when the $20-million plane went out of control at 28,000 feet and crashed at Palmdale Regional Airport in December, an Air Force report said Friday.

The report describes the events leading up to the Dec. 1 accident, but it does not assign blame for the crash. It does not mention any evidence of pilot error or equipment malfunction, nor does it say if the pilot's attempt to urinate while flying on automatic pilot was a contributing factor.

The pilot, Capt. Craig Fisher, 29, was about 48 minutes into a flight from Luke Air Force Base in Arizona with two other planes to the Miramar Naval Air Station near San Diego when he attempted to use the so-called "piddle pack" and the aircraft went out of control, the report said.

According to the released report, Fisher put his jet on autopilot about 40 minutes into the flight, took the piddle pack from his flight suit pocket, unlatched his lap belt, "and began to raise himself up and forward in the ejection seat."

"He used his feet on the rudder pedals to help with this upward motion," the report said. Then, the jet began a "very aggressive and rapid" roll to the right and down. Fisher unsuccessfully fought to regain control of the falling jet, including turning off the autopilot, before ejecting, the report said.
Report (https://www.nrc.gov/docs/ML0301/ML030170558.pdf)

[frodo_monkey]

Op Shader is sponsored by the good people at Traveljohn:

https://www.traveljohn.co.uk/featured/traveljohn-resealable-disposable-urinal-3-pack.html

Only weird people don't pee on a long op mission...

[Dominator2]

Frodo,

Maybe your comment is true, however. I flew fast jets for 6500 hours on Ops, long transits and QRA, and not once used a Pee-bag. The transits were easier to plan for but the 04.30 No Notice QRA scramble was more likely to catch one out. Making oneself dehydrated helped the problem but would not be good in a survival situation. Equally, in today’s RAF the easiest method of achieving dehydration would not be deemed acceptable!

On my first tour I was on QRA with a 54 year old Spec Aircrew nav. The hooter went at 06.00ish and I reacted as trained. I was sitting in the jet, strapped in and right engine running when my nav eventually appeared round the Q Shed door doing up his immersion suites horizontal zip.
Once all aboard, both engines running and INAS in Navigate I ask what had happened. He explained that a Gentleman always relieved himself before going flying, especially when the sortie duration was unknown.

PS. We still made our 10 minutes!

[Pontius Navigator]

And people objected when we pee'd on the bondu before flight - one flt cdr threatened to charge everyone with indecent exposure.

Dominator, I remember one Priory when OC 56, in an early F2, was late to the party and with plenty of unwanted gas on the towline. 7hrs 30 avtur to noise and no trade :)

[Fonsini]

Back then I could hold it in forever, I did a 9 hour TA drinking beer in the back and never went once. Nowadays the problem seems to be more with getting it out than keeping it in :(

I'm still waiting for someone to weigh in on the Jaguar pilot who was caught playing with himself courtesy of a used condom under the ejection seat. In RAF circles of the 70s would that just be laughed off ?

[Art Smass]

Should this thread be in the Accidents & Close Calls forum??

[BEagle]

ArtSmass wrote: Should this thread be in the Accidents & Close Calls forum??

This tasteless thread should either be binned (preferably), or moved to Jet Blast.

[Pontius Navigator]

Come on BEagle, never used a pee tube? At least you weren't on Jags.

[noflynomore]

I don't think he needs to, why do you suppose he always seems to have steam coming out of his ears? ;)

[Geriaviator]

AERO-URINARY story from the days long before FJs: Duncan Hamilton was one of the great larger-than-life characters who served in the Fleet Air Arm before becoming a famous racing driver of the 1940s and 50s. An episode in his book Touch Wood (1960) is entitled Christening the American Admiral and recalls flying a B25 somewhere, perhaps during service in America? Can't recall the detail but Duncan did that sort of thing. En route, while the USN admiral was enjoying the view from the nose compartment, Duncan required the relief tube which had a convenient funnel clipped to the pilot's seat. Unfortunately its hose had been detached where it entered the top of the nose compartment and the Admiral received a pint of filtered beverage from Duncan's night before.

If I may be allowed to stray from the FJ which was way beyond my means and capability ... long ago I took my new girl friend for a week on the Algarve. After two hours we were halfway across Iberia at FL100 when the familiar urge became unbearable. Thankfully Mr Piper provides a 6ins x 4ins DV window just right for a plastic sandwich bag. It was a great icebreaker and almost 40 years later we still laugh about the day when the rain in Spain fell mainly from the plane. I hope nobody from Oviedo reads this.

[Pontius Navigator]

Geriaviator, you ate the sandwiches first? Or were they pee and ham?

[langleybaston]

QUOTE:

And people objected when we pee'd on the bondu before flight - one flt cdr threatened to charge everyone with indecent exposure...

NICOSIA 1961.
As a newly arrived forecaster for the airfield Met Office, my orders from the boss included, right up front:

"After dark, when you need a slash, do it on the hollyhocks outside our windows!".

When I looked startled he explained that the hollyhocks throve on piddle [they were 14ft tall, it was said], and, in any case, the only khazi nearby on airside was a noissome trough and earth thunderbox.

[Geriaviator]

Oh yes PN, would not have missed the excellent in-flight service which she provides to this day. Other things such as hydraulics have declined somewhat, two or three times a night means something quite different to that which it meant on holidays 40 years ago. Thankfully we forget what was different about it :O

[Pontius Navigator]

Genaviator, now older I discovered all night hours are also numbered, 1 2 3 etc, but why do day hours not have the same effect.

[Brian 48nav]

Jag Mate son, over from Toulouse for the weekend, who normally loathes Prune, kept us in stitches for an hour or so with various stories of derring-do while airborne and desperate over Bosnia, Iraq and the North Atlantic.

Beagle

I thought it was you public school types who revelled in this sort of talk!

[BEagle]

Not really, Brian - it's more like prep school lavatorial humour....:rolleyes:

[Pontius Navigator]

Brian, IIRC it was a Jag Mate flying in that part of the world at height with that sort of disfused horizon and bright sky suffered vertigo, he might remember. The pilot felt he was balanced on s knife edge.

[Bob Viking]

PN.

The phenomenon you allude to is called Break Off. It is basically where your brain suffers from a lack of stimulus (sensory constancy in this case) and it plays tricks on you.

Although I am not the Jag mate you refer to I can vouch for the unpleasantness of the phenomenon.

BV

[Pontius Navigator]

BV, do you remember the incident? It was in one of the flight safety mags, either I Learnt, or an Avmed article etc

[ExRAFRadar]

PN: I recall reading it in Air Clues so 85 or 86 most likely.

Remember it quite well as I used to read all of the 'I learnt about...' articles and this one was rather strange.

The Jag was performing a transit and after a few hours the pilot reported a feeling 'Like I was outside the aircraft, about a wing's length behind and to the right of the aircraft. I was watching myself. The aircraft felt as though it was balanced on a knife edge and input from me into the flight controls would cause the aircraft to crash'

Perhaps not the exact words but you get the gist.

I'll see if I can google anything

[rjtjrt]

PN.

The phenomenon you allude to is called Break Off. It is basically where your brain suffers from a lack of stimulus (sensory constancy in this case) and it plays tricks on you.

Although I am not the Jag mate you refer to I can vouch for the unpleasantness of the phenomenon.

BV
Bob
It is a very interesting illusion/dissociative phenomenon.
If you have experienced it, and if you can, it would be very interesting to read your description of your particular version, and your response. Also how long it lasted.
If it is unpleasant for you to recall, please excuse and ignore my request.

[Bob Viking]

It's a long, sorry episode and this seems like an odd thread to mention it but I will anyway.

It's the sort of thing that people would have been afraid to mention a few years back and I felt the same initially but now I'll tell anyone who'll listen.

Basically during my previous tour (based in Canada) I developed a fear of flying solo. It festered for some time until I eventualy confessed during an annual medical. I had put it down to a fear of death after attending one too many funerals (Eggman's seemed to be the tipping point for me). So I turned up at the special place that we don't like to talk about and started down an unknown path.

After many sessions of talking and soul searching it became obvious that my trigger for my fears was Break Off. I could relate to the fact that the first time I had experienced it was back on the Jaguar (pure coincidence that it was on the Jaguar, it is not specific to this aircraft type) at medium level over the Med' on a hazy day.

I only noticed it very infrequently over the next few years but it came to a head in Canada. Vast, featureless airspace and relatively benign sorties (bouncing medium level intercepts when you fly in circles for several minutes waiting for the next commit) led to my brain wandering. It basically felt like the jet was going to tip over and I would start to panic. It's a very unpleasant feeling and completely irrational.

When we are more junior we are so busy just keeping the aircraft flying that we don't have time to contemplate life whilst flying. As you become more experienced this changes. The other problem is that as FJ pilots we are control freaks and we love to reason things out. My brain then rationalised that it was a fear of crashing (G-LOC specifically) and that as long as there was someone in the other seat I'd be alright. Luckily there were always spare and willing students to fill the seat. Sadly I was completely wrong and preventing myself from being cured.

Anyway, I finally decided enough was enough and over a six month period I learned what the problem was and how to deal with it. I can now fly solo several times a day. I would say I'm 99% cured. It can still happen but now I am aware of what it is I can give myself a stiff talking to and carry on. It helps to stay busy in the cockpit. Luckily in my current jet there are lots of screens to play with and the local topography is slightly more varied than my previous locale.

It can happen to anyone and at almost any time. The Docs have seen instances from pilots of all aircraft types and apparently long distance lorry drivers are particularly susceptible. It's the sensory constancy that does it. Busy brains need stimulus and when we don't get it we just start thinking too much.

If I had to bring out a major lesson from the whole thing it would basically be to steal a tagline from BT: "It's good to talk". If I'd talked about it sooner (sadly us FJ pilots are great talkers but sh1t listeners) it would never have snowballed into the big issue it became. When I eventually faced up to it the first person I spoke to was my wife. That alone felt like an enormous weight off my shoulders. It just got better from there.

So, in summary, BV went mental but he's better now. Mental health issues eh? It would never happen to you would it?

BV:O

[rjtjrt]

Bob

Not expecting such an forthright and personal reply.
Being able to talk/write about it means you are in charge of it, not the other way round.

[Bob Viking]

As I said, I'll tell anyone who'll listen to me nowadays! Makes me feel loved.

BV:ok:

[Pontius Navigator]

The Docs have seen instances from pilots of all aircraft types and apparently long distance lorry drivers are particularly susceptible. It's the sensory constancy that does it. Busy brains need stimulus and when we don't get it we just start thinking too much

Hmm, I think I must have been close driving down the Keys then. Cruise control, open road, no traffic, and about 5 hours at 55 mph (the speed limit). Just miles and miles of the same - white concrete, blue skies. You certainly would not get that on the M1 or M25.

[Pontius Navigator]

ExRadar, spot on. Exactly as I remember, especially the out of cockpit experience.

[Geriaviator]

Pontius, re the frequency of nightly visits: docs say that provided there is no obvious problem they don't know beyond the normal hormonal changes at night. We're all different so what affects one may not affect t'other. Going often is much better than being unable to pee at all which is a medical emergency.

Please bear with us, Beagle. As Bob Viking says it's good to talk and David my urologist says that our generation is still inclined to keep the stiff upper lip and leave things until it's too late. His professor used to point out that when he studied in 1970 the dreaded C-word was forbidden, even in the Department of Oncology. Surely any discussion which enlightens, lavatorial or otherwise, can only be good?

[NutLoose]

In RAF circles of the 70s would that just be laughed off ?
Well nothing was made of it, so yes, it must have been.
Strange place RAFG in those days, they would have major investigations over the most inane things, while other things I would have called more serious were ignored.

Bob, your incident over the Med, was it in an Air Clues article? So glad it all worked out in the end.

[Bob Viking]

The 'incident' over the Med was effectively a non-event. I dismissed it at the time as just being tired. I know the one you're thinking of and it wasn't me.

For me it all started in earnest much later. I know I'm not the only one but not many people talk about it.

BV:bored:

[Phil_R]

Some of these ideas should probably be passed on to film industry electricians assigned to operate lighting on cranes, as here:

http://www.cinematography.com/cine-uploads/monthly_11_2014/post-66473-0-66191200-1416913886.jpg

Less cramped. More public. It is bad form to cause localised rain.

[Fonsini]

I am not a doctor but I do meet with them occasionally.

After the age of 50 your PSA levels should be checked regularly, reduced flow and increased frequency is to be expected, but there are limits. Similarly, it's also necessary to let your urologist "take you out for dinner", and a colonoscopy is also a good idea.

Pulling a lot of g during your career can also give rise to what Robin Olds called the fighter pilot's disease, namely piles, but that tends to be rather more obvious and somewhat less serious - but arguably the most painful.

Sorry BEagle, I am trying to raise the tone a little in response to your feedback ;)

[ACW418]

In the late 1960s I used to drive down the M1 in fog every Sunday evening over the winter period. I experienced the "Break Off" thing on a couple of occasions usually in the Bedfordshire area where fog was most likely and the M1 pretty featureless. It was not very busy in those days. It certainly made my hair stand on end and I did not feel I could talk about it in case I was going bonkers.

ACW

[glad rag]

Yep. Driving distances after long hard days, featureless roads.
I had my experience along a dead straight banked/tree lined road, right out of the blue. It was the perspective of the two roadsides coming together that got me, as said, you feel like you are rising and moving behind the vehicle, every instinctive steering wheel movement seems to become magnified X100, bloody scary, most difficult to shake your head and break the sensation.

[ExRAFRadar]

Rummaging around the net I found this Australian report from 2007 on spatial disorientation and makes for an interesting read.
Section 2.3 mentions 'Break-Off' and 'Knife-Edge' phenomenon.

https://www.atsb.gov.au/media/29971/b20070063.pdf

[Pontius Navigator]

By tenuous connection I guess we are still on bodily functions.

Now, twisting the original question which concerned output, what about input? I know that in very high temperatures we could get through well over a pint per hour of orange juice with the only output being sweat. We had plenty of space for cold drinks.

How do the FJ guys get on having deliberately dehydrated before flight, do you drink or sip during flight?

[Pontius Navigator]

Some of these ideas should probably be passed on to film industry electricians assigned to operate lighting on cranes, as here:
Less cramped. More public. It is bad form to cause localised rain.

Phil, I was slow to catch on here, are you speaking from experience?

[Vzlet]

An excerpt from one of CDR. Jack Woodul's highly enjoyable "Youthly Puresome" tales (http://www.flightjournal.com/blog/2011/09/28/sounds-like-a-personal-problem-an-f-8-reserve-pilots-story/):


"On the road again, Puresome began to realize that the gallon of coke/coffee/Exedrin he had consumed as breakfast was saying, “Hi! Remember me?” from his nether regions. “No hill for a stepper,” thought Puresome, who gritted his teeth and concentrated on not wobbling around too much.

But as that great clock in the sky counted off another 1.0 of flight time, Youthly was fantasizing about hollow legs and trying desperately not to think about the wash of the waves below in the Golfo de Mexico. When his wingman noticed his lead was deteriorating, things were truly serious.

But the money the U.S. government had spent on survival training was not lost on Puresome. Inventorying the contents of the cockpit and wondering as to the waterproof qualities of his canvas nav bag, he happened to notice that his kneeboard radio frequency card was held in a zip-lock plastic sheath! Things moved smartly from here.

Quickly, he passed the lead to his wingman and advised him that he was going to move off from the flight to perform a control check. Seizing the stick between his knees and shucking the cards from the zip-lock, Puresome began the involved procedure of torso-harness, g-suit and flight-suit disassembly, as well as the search mission incident to the filling of the bag.

The rest of the flight marveled at the gyrations of the fighter undergoing rigorous control checking. Finally, it was done — the bag was safely sealed and stowed in a corner of the cockpit, and the flight suit, g-suit and torso harness were back in place."

[Madbob]

1565


Here is a picture of a Piddle Pack I found when going through some old kit. It's 36 years old but happily unused!:ok: I wonder if the design has changed much in the intervening years - I couldn't help but have a chuckle at the manufacuturer - Flexpak of Bristol.


I only ever had to use them a couple of times in extremis and happily never in a side-by-side cockpit!


MB

[Geriaviator]

Looks more like Toast, Slice, Lightly Done from the flight rations :oh:

[Pontius Navigator]

Soggy? .

[juliet]

I can personally attest to the uselessness of those sponge bags! They are drier than dehydrated toast. Ones physical relief on first using it are very soon overcome by the shocking realisation that the sponge isn't absorbing anything and the bag is rapidly filling, and then overflowing.

The newer crystal ones with the wide plastic snap together seal on the other hand are fantastic. Used to lob them at the jinglies.

[Flying_Anorak]

I'm not ex Mil or ex FJ but I did get told an anecdotal story once by someone who was. I'm sure we all know someone who when passing by a bin, glances in and sees something that they think is too good to be in there and they could make a use of.

In the said tale I was told, the gentleman concerned saw what he thought was a good usable sponge in a plastic bag in the hangar bin and having 'salvaged' it then proceeded to clean his car windscreen with the thoughtfully pre-moistened sponge to the amusement of his colleagues who never said a word!

[langleybaston]

Nobody has mentioned deliberate dehydration before a dining-in, have they?

Having witnessed the dread sight of a chair being removed at the President's command, the owner having slunk off desperate before the Loyal Toast, who would risk the ensuing case of port?

My tactic was exactly one dry sherry at pre-drinks, having dehydrated all day previously. I have seen beer being consumed beforehand, and marvelled at the plumbing of the heroes.

[Pontius Navigator]

LB, in keeping with the OP, our Canadian XO, F**** B****, a Maj in the CAF, resplendent in RCAF mess kit, complete with the tights and gold stripe and boots, would bring in a bottle of Drambuie, full when he came in and full when he left

[NutLoose]

"How the heck do you get your willy in that little opening?"

:E

Little snippet, did you know Klingons as in Star Trek, use sanitary towels stuck to their heads under the heavy make up headgear that they wear, to absorb the sweat...

Not a lot know that...........or care

[Fonsini]

The Russkies seem to place a higher priority on these things - apparently the Su-34 has a urinal, no joke.

Do you think there might be room for one in a Tonka ?