Latest Fleet Forum rumor

[fliion]

Anyone who was there care to let us know if it's true that a certain snr Mngr had a profanity laced outburst blaming pprune for recruitment issues?

[donpizmeov]

I didn't know pprune fecked the rosters and leave and gave us the pay cuts. Can we sue?

They are consistently muppets these manager types.

[777boyindubai]

Classic EK Management. Blame their own failures on others.

[sluggums]

Good. I hope it gives the oxygen thief sleepless nights, just like we have to contend with.

[kungfu panda]

To be fair on the management PPRUNE is certainly the reason that I didn't apply.

In my experience when management starts to cut pay and conditions, they never want to stop, it never turns around and improves. It also appears that as they now take turboprop Pilots that Emirates is no longer a career airline but more a first Jet Airline or first command; prior to the move into a career company.

The unmentionable on the other hand. I didn't apply because they were unmentionable on PPRUNE which didn't seem to be good.

At least in China conditions have pretty consistently been on the up. I now have a well paid and lovely commuting contract. There are cons though...initial training and medical primarily.

[crablab]

I agree with KP.
The reason I'm not even considering the dust bowl or EK is because of the cr@p about them I see on PPruNe. (Plus I don't want to be lynched... :mad:)

So actually, PPruNe is an excellent recruitment tool - it filters out all the sh*t airlines so pilots go elsewhere :D

[kungfu panda]

Let me just add that the other reason I decided against Dubai was having worked for a previous company who believed Pilot fatigue was good business, I was never about to enter a "career airline" who followed that fatigue policy.

I hope after this year that there will have been a few changes in that regard!

[fliion]

I think the point, if it's true, is that said manager doesn't recognize the root cause of complaints as the reason for postings but rather - it's just negative threads for the sake of negative threads.

If that's the problem solving mentality of this particular Fleet Mgr, he is in WAY over his head.

[ruserious]

Reap what you sow, you generally get the reputation you deserve

[framer]

I didn't apply because I read how knackered you blokes are. I earn about 80% of what you guys earn but I have a slightly better roster and get my annual leave to spend with my family. I think my roster is pretty bad but it is definitely better than most of the EK examples I have read about. I figure I would have to spend the extra 20% salary on health issues in my later years anyway.....or maybe paying out the wife!

[ruserious]

CorpComms - News - 280 You Get The Reputation You Deserve (http://www.corpcommsmagazine.co.uk/news/280-you-get-the-reputation-you-deserve)

[Spikedog]

[QUOTE=kungfu panda;9616284]To be fair on the management PPRUNE is certainly the reason that I didn't apply.


I don't think Pprune is the reason.

I think you mean that you didn't apply because you read on Pprune what it is like to work at Emirates and live in UAE. Cold, hard facts and if management can't handle the truth then they should act to change it, rather than simply blaming people for writing about it.

[kungfu panda]

I can never make the quote work either...

[Mr Good Cat]

Which manager are we talking about? Pilot or admin staff?

[Eau de Boeing]

I'm guessing EGT?

[WakeTurb_69]

The new age restrictions on command (that was so intelligently dreamed up by the complete f#$cking morons higher up) may have something to do with it!

[trimotor]

It has always seemed to me that the thoughts expressed on here, regardless of the airline concerned, are the sincerely believed opinions of those that take the time to post them. Therefore, those opinions are the truth as the writers see them.

In that case, if the TCAS II got upset, the need is to look inwardly (within the organisation) and change what is driving dissent. Or live with it. Either way, getting angry (or even) ain't a solution.

[Mr Good Cat]

Why would you base such a life changing decision by what you read on PPRuNe? If you want to know what the real story is, call someone you know in the company. We all know 90% of what you read on here is BS. I'm not saying where I sit on the fence, but I called a few friends at EK and got the real story. Hint: PPRuNe isn't entirely accurate.

Well I'm an ex EK skipper and I'm not bitter about my time in the company BUT, I'm afraid your friends are lying if they're telling you that things are okay in the company. There are lots of problems, most can't be cured. But that's the way it is, the only way to change things for the better is to leave if you have that option. If not, try to make the most of what you have and don't get dragged down by the understandable negativity.

Of course it's all dependent on what you're used to and where you're from - if you joined EK as a young turboprop pilot after getting laid off from a small airline in the developing world, it's actually quite nice.

[framer]

Why would you base such a life changing decision by what you read on PPRuNe? The volume of negative posts over the last two years says a lot. Also, flight time per month is pretty cut and dried ( unless you fudge the sign on time). Unless the WSJ and all the pprune posts are wrong then that is enough for me to cull an Airline from my list.
There are plenty of Airlines paying similar money that don't fudge the sign on time, who do less stick and duty hours, and who treat their pilots with less disrespect. It's a really good way to sort the bottom feeders from outfits that might be ok.
Also, pprune prompted me to get in touch with a friend of a friend who works there, apparently pprune is correct.

[Talparc]

It was JA the muppet who stated such stuff during the last Pilot Forums and he said as well how proud he is about the latest bs recruitment videos.
Asked about the high number of resignations he of course gave no answer.
At least he enjoys reading PPRuNe with his costa, hopefully he is next on the his way out!

[Callsign Kilo]

A lot of what's written on pprune is sh1t; however if you fling enough of it, at least some of it sticks. It's therefore a pretty powerful medium and a reasonable anti-marketing tool for the recruitment department. I like to believe that the manager in question was irate when it comes to the negativity displayed regarding EK and how detramental it is to pilot recruitment. Might actually be the fist time that he/she is right about something. Who knows?

[Calmcavok]

hopefully he is next on the his way out!

To be replaced by whom? I'd put JA ahead of many other managers in HQ. Sure he has to ensure the company comes first but I'd venture he has done more for the pilot community than any other manger. Who would you rather in his place?

[Sheikh Your Bootie]

Actually the complaint was about some personal abuse some of our colleagues, who featured in the recent recruitment videos received. Which was quite personal and abusive. Those individuals who sent those messages, should hang their heads in shame!
I support that view, no matter that some of the content of the videos, lets face it was less that truthful.

Also, JA is a top bloke in my opinion, and replacement would be a lot worse. Be careful what you wish for Habibis...

SyB :zzz::zzz:

[nolimitholdem]

Why would you base such a life changing decision by what you read on PPRuNe? If you want to know what the real story is, call someone you know in the company. We all know 90% of what you read on here is BS. I'm not saying where I sit on the fence, but I called a few friends at EK and got the real story. Hint: PPRuNe isn't entirely accurate.

You "called a few friends" and "got the real story", hmm? And 90% of what you read on here was BS?

Well, I lived the real story, and I'm also a non-bitter ex-EK skipper (it's easy to be sanguine when you get nearly 3 weeks off at Christmas hahah!). But if you think that only 10% of what you read on PPRune about EK is accurate, I do hope you've applied and are successful.

You will receive a very interesting education. :ok:

[ruserious]

It's interesting to note that there has been a slight change in tone and philosophy in how pilot's are being treated recently. There seems to be a fair bit less bullying and warning letters coming out of the bouncy castle in the last few months.
There can be little doubt this has probably been caused by a combination of factors including the departure of TCAS, a hemorrhaging of pilots, the changing of the guard to HD and JA, and finally the arrival of CM with his desire for culture change.
I have little doubt that FTL's will remain Targets and that regulations will like out contracts continue to have a bulldozer driven through them. However the slight change in culture is welcome, lets hope it keeps going in the right direction

[winterdarkness]

It was JA the muppet who stated such stuff during the last Pilot Forums and he said as well how proud he is about the latest bs recruitment videos.
Asked about the high number of resignations he of course gave no answer.
At least he enjoys reading PPRuNe with his costa, hopefully he is next on the his way out!
If you are going to name and shame, at least target the right person. Here is what actually happened:

HD opened up the session congratulating a few "Ppruners" of successfully making no one apply anymore. He said pilots were like "Turkeys voting for Christmas" in that we were scaring pilots away, when what we really should to is encourage everyone to come, so the workload would lessen. He was also very upset about they way the four colleagues that featured in the videos had been treated on Pprune.

At this point I guess everyone was thinking the same: "It´s not becuase pilots are posting on Pprune no one is applying, it´s because how we are treated by the company".

A few minutes later a brave pilot said just this and was effectively shot down by HD (yes using profanity) and that was the end of that discussion.

JA on the other hand was a complete gentleman throughout the session.

[The Outlaw]

Seaman,

I think JA would be an effective manager if he was given the latitude from above. We all know that AAR has to go if there is any hope for the future although I think its already too late.

If JA reads this forum then all he needs to do is go to the 4th floor and have a chat with CM explaining that simple fact!

CM has stated in an interview that in order for any re-structuring to be successful that ALL senior management has to be replaced. I think we will see this soon enough. I'm not sure why some posters seem to have "Stockholm syndrome" with respect to JA. Despite his potential he has still been part of the watch along with TCAS that has lead the company into dangerous waters. Its time for a new mind set from he top down.

[anson harris]

Be careful of what your friends tell you too. I have been misled by people that I trusted in the past and came to regret listening to them: it's not that they're bad people, but unfortunately it is human nature to encourage others to go down the same path in order to make yourself feel better about your decisions. It's also human nature to ignore obvious truths when you see something that you think you want.

[Emma Royds]

I have been misled by people that I trusted in the past and came to regret listening to them: it's not that they're bad people, but unfortunately it is human nature to encourage others to go down the same path in order to make yourself feel better about your decisions.

That is true but we as individuals all want different things out of life as well and what can be a bed of roses for one man, can also be a bed of thorns for his friend. Giving advice (such as career related) is highly subjective anyway.

[BANANASBANANAS]

I have been asked by a few former colleagues what life is like at EK as they were considering applying.

Wishing to remain objective in my reply, I simply emailed them my last 6 months rosters and factored flying hours for the rolling last 12 months.

None of them applied.

[Talparc]

JA is a useless muppet, sorry I had my experiences with him.Ready to be fired!

[glofish]

I simply emailed them my last 6 months rosters

idem: I showed them my first warning letter.
They paid the tap and never applied .....

[Xulu]

JA has been fantastic to me when he didn't have to and shouldn't have needed to...

There are much better targets in HQ who deserve your frustration.

[Monarch Man]

Just to echo about JA, all my dealings with him have been nothing but upfront and honest, yes theres an element of playing the game, he is after all ex Mil and as such knows a thing or two about when to speak or not in a hierarchy. HD on the other hand should be ashamed of himself if he resorted to profanity, paddy or not, its a matter of respect and perhaps shows his frustrations and true colours. I can well imagine he's frustrated given my quick little tally shows about 4230 or so of us active on the poorly disguised list, a number which has barely grown despite a concerted effort, all of which proves the narrative regarding attrition running at about 7-8%.

[alwayzinit]

PPRUNE is a doubled edged sword, It was and has been EK's best recruiting tool, when things here were frankly great, the recruiters had to wade through piles of applications, able to pick and choose. This happy situation was assisted by this very forum.
Of course not everything on here is 100% accurate, everything in life has to be seen through an individual's perspective.
Now, let us suppose that the conditions were miraculously to jump back say 9 years? Would the posters on here talk about their 78 hrs per month, their unlimited days off, the purchasing power of their salary, the amount of energy they all had being able to recover fully?
Of course we would and it would save EK a few million into the bargain.
So 9th floor the choice, to quote Our Cilla, is yours!:ok:

[Panther 88]

From my dealings with everyone on the third floor for the last 11 years, I would have to say all have been above board and extremely helpful. But my expectations are low.

On the other hand, what has changed in the last 6 to seven years.....nothing for the better when it comes to flight time, days off, bidding/rostering, factoring, no credit for ground duties or leave, and MONEY. Fatiguing rosters, month after month after month. Families have become used to being a single parent household. And that habibis is where the rub lies. I don't care if I'm treated this way or that way, I want some pay rise and some friggin' time off, and credit for leave and ground duties......did I mention MONEY?

[glofish]

The relation of pilots with their airline has always been like a see saw. It's almost impossible to balance it, we know, it will always fall on one side. The opposite side will always try to lift it towards them again, like offer and demand.
Such almost symbiotic relationship is healthy because it keeps both sides on their toes, meaning the entity remains competitive.
The environment in the ME however gives too much weight to one side and almost none to the other. Managers like AAR and his cronies in conjunction with a laughable "law" weigh way too much to give any chance for the other side to balance the see saw. Furthermore any stupid remark, like HD's adds undue weight.
Once there is no chance, no weight heavy enough to lift the see saw to the other side, even by a teeny weeny inch, any effort from this side will be spent somewhere else. At least there will be no futile effort to find more buddies to try futile weightlifting.

Whinging about that without taking off some weight shows the real colours of management: The colours of ignorance and incompetence.

[TangoUniform]

Nice analysis, Glo. The issue, using your analogy, is that here isn't too much weight on one side, but rather there is NO weight on the opposite side. How many times have we heard, "if you don't like it....leave"? Not as much as in the past, however, experience, with regard to this operation, is leaving. Just check the staff numbers of the freshly made LTCs th next time you happen to be in the training college on the 1st floor.

[777boyindubai]

FDM and CDM are going to be merged. Half the jobs will be lost. Redundancy. Still no big losses from the Costa Crew. At least not yet...There won't be much left for the clowns to manage at this rate. Let us nominate some Departments that would become more effective with "redundancies" My favourite would be those overworked guys in Accommodation.....

[The Outlaw]

All fleet managers

[145qrh]

And managers fleet :ugh:

[777boyindubai]

Looks like Fat Pat will be on the way back to SA.....

[fatbus]

Sad that EK professional pilots taking such pleasure in people losing their jobs.

[Nikita81]

In order to lose your job you have to do your job first.

[Talparc]

fatbus: I totally agree
remember the times under SMF and LL, where employees were treated with respect, attitude, at those times it was a pleasure to work for the company because you were basically part of it. Sadly that has all changed with the arrival of muppets like TCAS, AAR and the rest of the intimidating managers.

[The Outlaw]

Nakita nailed it!

Not sad at all to see SOME of these managers lose their jobs, they were part of the attitude and degenerative force that has brought this company where it is today.

The rot has to go in the company if there is any hope for the future.

Its business.

[777boyindubai]

Fatty. I am very sad to see job losses for competent and hard working people. The rot started on the 9th floor and filtered down. Arrogant and incompetent sh1ts like (pick the name) using only their bonus as a guide have brought the company to this point. We need a mass cull of Brits and Indians and the star on the treetop of AAR. Many really good people, well versed in their jobs have left; their loss does not bode well for the future.

[anson harris]

We need a mass cull of Brits and Indians

Yeah you're right: more racism, that's what's needed.....

[notapilot15]

Playing victims? But never crossed mind while abusing both experienced pilots and young flight attendants for years.

[vfenext]

777boy now adding racist to bitter and twisted. Let it go!

[Nikita81]

Someone puts Brits and Indians (and we are talking about mafia here, not about nationalities) on the same side in one sentence, gives them the same characteristics and wishes them the same, and you call it racism? :) Back to school,vfnext, you haven't learned what actual racism is.

[Divertnow]

Yeah you're right: more racism, that's what's needed.....
How is that racism?
British management are widely responsible for destroying Cathay and some English managers have done pretty good job of destroying the working environment here too.

[777boyindubai]

Exactly. I am referring to the two Mafias. Emirates. English managed Indian run and the employees suffer. I am no racist. I also mentioned AAR. Emirati. Nothing against anyone because of passport or religion. Brits at EK ultra destructive. Look at Cathay, GF and now EK.

[vfenext]

Nikita you know nothing of me or what I know about racism. I'm more aware than most of what it is and the effects it can have. Go back to the high n mighty insulated box you crawled out of.

[BigGeordie]

Actually I think Nikita knows a little bit about racism as well.

[sunbird123]

What nationalities built up EK, Cathay,GF?.I think you will find many different ones.
Foreign nationals were replaced in Cathay and GF. Both are having problems.
Its very difficult for small countries companies to have quality management without outside help.
In the UAE wasta rules. The locals want the management positions but most do not have experience.
You need people coming from quality successful airlines.

[Cloud Bunny]

Exactly. I am referring to the two Mafias. Emirates. English managed Indian run and the employees suffer. I am no racist. I also mentioned AAR. Emirati. Nothing against anyone because of passport or religion. Brits at EK ultra destructive. Look at Cathay, GF and now EK.

So what nationality would create the utopian existence you seek? Which nationality on this earth is perfection personified? German? Lufthansa not so hot at the moment, Pilots striking. Italian perhaps? Yeah cos Alitalia is the perfect model of how to run an airline. French? Yep all is rosy in Air France isn't it. Australian? QANTAS are actually doing okay, oh wait they're Irish.
What needs to occur here is a change of PERSONALITY not nationality. This may come as a huge surprise to you but each nation on this planet is made up of the good the bad and the ugly and the current incumbent has taken this place in the wrong direction for sure. His nationality though has nothing to do with it - his predecessor was by all accounts exactly the person that is required right now. Was he not the SAME nationality?
We can all gripe but how about we leave the tiny minded casual racism out of it eh? And actually use some of the intelligence we're supposed to have to formulate well rounded, intelligent arguments? Right now the EK pilot community is coming across as a bunch of brain dead numpties.

[Talparc]

Best example of local wasta is AAR and CPA , no clue about anything!
Oh I forgot ADCPA Mr. Landing and all the other local muppets.

[notapilot15]

Sunbird, Cloud Bunny

Do you think most FC/CC expats would have joined if this was run solely by UAE management and Indian supervisors. Never. They might as well join other ME or Sub Continent airlines.

Young women from western hemisphere were lured showing western management and turned them over to Indians. That is the most disgraceful act any westerner would do to their own, unless Brits think Eastern Europeans are beneath them.

Also when you say successful airlines you are not taking about Caledonian, Sri Lankan, Gulf Air and BA. Are you?

When there was enough money to throw around they wasted, now don't know how to run this company.

[Cloud Bunny]

The nationality of the people running this place never entered my head, would never even pass by as a thought in my tiny pea sized brain. It's irrelevant.
I was selected by a Brit, a Canadian, a Brazilian, a Kiwi and a UAE National. Who cares?
Do I think the Brits think Eastern Europeans are beneath them - without a shadow of a doubt a xenophobic, irrational proportion of them surely do, in the same way as many other people would view other nationalities. These people have even tinier pea sized brains than me. The fact that some of them have risen to prominence is a problem.
Would I have joined EK if it was solely run by locals? Of course. If the contract is right, the lifestyle is right, the company makes money and is economically stable I don't give a rats arse where the person/people at the top are born. You can't condem an entire race of people based on the actions of a few. There's enough of that **** going on in the world right now on a much larger and more frightening scale.
I'm not getting into a slanging match over this, suffice to say that I genuinely don't care where the next CEO of this place is born, the personality on the other hand is critical to how this place shapes up.

[Nikita81]

When it comes to crime, people from the same country tend to group in mafias. We are talking about nationalities from the criminology (mafia) perspective. Nothing new there. There's Japanese mafia, Italian mafia, Serbian mafia (Pink Panthers are all Serbs although they cannot be classified as mafia), Albanian mafia, British mafia, Indian mafia etc. Don't misuse serious terms and people who are actual victims of racism and discrimination to prove your point. Find another argument. This one is false.

[Dan Winterland]

It doesn't help that there is a PPRuNe thread about how to leave EK with over 500 posts and a third of a million hits. Last time I looked, the header advert was for EK recruitment. You couldn't maker that up!

There is currently a pilot shortage and everyone is either struggling - or will be soon, to fill those pilot seats. The industry is making us more mobile with the gradual demise of seniority and common licences and we won't hang around with a sub-standard employer with poor Ts and Cs and poor employment conditions. EK is one of the company's which has created this situation and they are reaping what they sowed.

What I know of EK to be true mostly comes from people I know who work there (or used to work there more to the point) and - and if I was ever considering working in the ME, they wouldn't be my choice. Pilots talk to each other and we know where the best jobs are.

[keepitrealok]

Sealer,

From your posts, you work for Virgin Australia, you've applied to Qantas, and so the question is, if -

I don't work for EK, so I don't know the real story.....

.....why are you in the Middle East Forum commenting on things you know nothing about?

:confused:

[p.s 90% of the comments posted here have an accuracy level of 80%. Take that from someone who is actually here. :ok:]

[SMT Member]

One could possibly argue, many of the people who end up working in the sandpit couldn't quite make it back in their home countries. Quite possibly through no fault of their own, but it is abundantly clear quite a lot got promoted way above their abilities, once they arrived in the GCC.

They say failed airline supervisors end up as airline managers, and that failed managers end up as directors, in hot and sandy places. I've seen quite a lot of that.

[donpizmeov]

Its Merry Christmas old fella. I hope you are having a good one.

[misd-agin]

Sealear - a general observation - reading previous posts by an author is a good idea because it helps establish the credibility, accuracy, and tone of the poster.

[recall_checked]

I didn't apply thanks to pprune. Most pilots know about EKs poor reputation these days. "Long haul Ryanair" is what several people have described it to me as being like.

Never listen to a friend either...they won't admit making the worse decision of their life.

[fatbus]

It wAs very good on the 330 15 years ago. Recommended mates to come until we got shafted by AAR in 08? ( 92 hrs) after that I said I could not bring myself to recommend to anyone! Pprune is not the problem EK is.

[fliion]

'09, in '08 we got a 12% pay raise and 14 week profit share.

[flyaway777]

"Long haul Ryanair" is what several people have described it to me as being like.

"Ultra long/Long/Medium/Short haul Ryanair" would be a more appropriate description.

And therein lies one of the biggest issues at EK, on the 777 fleet at least. We fly a hybrid mix of every kind of operation on a scale unlike anything that's ever been attempted elsewhere. Add into the mix the regular +95hr rosters averaging 8-9 days off a month and you can see how unsustainable the whole thing is. You're constantly pushed to the limit with frequent shifts from day to night flying and vice verse. There is simply not enough recovery time between trips resulting in a permanent state of tiredness or even fatigue which cannot be good for you, no matter how hard you try to maintain some kind of healthy lifestyle outside of work.

It's no wonder people are put off from applying when they hear this kind of thing. Problem is, the truth hurts! I most certainly could not honestly recommend anyone I know to join with things as they are at the moment. And while the fact they're trying to blame current recruitment issues on what is written here is undoubtedly pathetic, it is very much in keeping with what you'd expect from management in this part of the world. One of the reasons we're unlikely to see things change.

[felixthecat]

Unfortunately as much as we bleat, it does seem to be sustainable, for the airline at least. Its been going on for many years now and yet the flights still get flown.

Back in the mid 00s even when oil prices were high, the company was making money hand over fist, the pilots were happy, flights were full and it was the place to come. A few years later and some dubious decisions and we have come 180 degree's. Oil is low, profits are disappearing faster than an ice cream in mid summer, no one is happy and most are looking for alternatives and flights are often half full.

My roster just under 100hrs for Jan, similar for Nov and Dec. It is too much

[springbok449]

Flyaway777 has hit the nail on the head!

The 777 fleet is doing every type of operation known to aviation and is doing it at a "low cost" pace, with inadequate rest in between flights, nowhere else is this being done and it's not sustainable for the troops or their families.

The mixture of earlies, nights, turnarounds longhaul and ULR in no particular order and without any set rules is punishing to the human body, no amount of cash thrown at me is enough to trade my health, quality of life and family.

[Talparc]

Bingo: It's called slavery 2.0
Who cares about your health?Stop complaining and keep on rowing!
It's getting worth.

[eduelp]

So what nationality would create the utopian existence you seek?

No offence dude, but British management is the cancer of T&Cs. Everywhere they set foot in management, T&Cs go ridiculously South...

[Mr Mac]

Eduelp
Not trying to excuse "British current management practice" but would suggest what you have is MBA practice garnered from a certain number of US management schools. Look at US companies outside the tech area(cuddly feely !) and indeed airlines, and you see exactly the same thing as you are experiencing in the race to the bottom. I have never had the time in any organisation to actually do an MBA, but surprisingly make them (companies I have worked for) and me a lot of money, usually when the MBA Harvard yard graduate blinks !


Happy New Year
Mr Mac

[Kobus Dune]

I didn't apply thanks to PPRuNe

So many people will keep on writing on PPrune

[anson harris]

No offence dude..

According to you the Irish have a lot to answer for too. And indeed pilots themselves.

Maybe it's just you?

No offence...

[olster]

Yes well, under American management over the road a 737 with complete loss of life crashes
with apparently no responsibility admitted and no lessons learnt. National stereotyping is pathetic and lazy. No offence 'dude'.

[donpizmeov]

anyhoooo, fleet growth by just 6 aeroplanes last year (36 new, 29 retired). Over 500 new joiners, and rosters are still busy. Yep...no retention problem at all.

[eduelp]

According to you the Irish have a lot to answer for too

Same dog, different collar. I englobe all the region under the british term.

Glad to see you had the time to go through my posts. The pilots in my old airline did have a lot to do with the problem, as most of pilots of the above nationalities also lack the guts to take any sort of action and just complain.

Much happier nowadays at a place where we are respected as professional in a uk-free management.

So in short, no... it was not me.

[SilverSeated]

Wow!

How ridiculous has this become on a so called professional pilots forum?

So the faults/problems apparently evident at EK are a cause of the nationalities of the managers involved?

Pathetic...and to those that believe so, "eduelp" and co. Seriously you need to take a step back and listen to what you are saying. A lot of what is written here just belittles us as so called "professionals" but this is scraping the bottom. Good job boys...

[fab777]

it looks like one can mention cultural traits when speaking of far east people (see a number of threads, from the Asiana SFO accident to a more recent alcohol related incident), but nothing is allowed about the british... ;)

[ExDubai]

it looks like one can mention cultural traits when speaking of far east people (see a number of threads, from the Asiana SFO accident to a more recent alcohol related incident), but nothing is allowed about the british... ;)
All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others...

[ruserious]

OK eduelp, I will bite..... where do you think they should be getting their managers from, after all they probably need to speak good English? So take your pick, Singapore, India, Sri Lanka, Australia, NZ, which ones would make you happy and feeling less racially offended.
The reality is the company needs managers from 'developed' nations that have robust aviation and business systems, as well as countries with a sound regulatory framework. The fact that managers come here, realise in short order that unless they play the game by the local rules (blame, bully, punish) they will not keep their jobs. They also realise very quickly that if they play the game and cut costs at every opportunity they will be well rewarded individually with bonus's and merit pots. So those smart enough gradually creep away from any moral compass they ever had and fill their bank accounts. Who is to say any of us would not do the same in their shoes, I would like to think I wouldn't, but.....

[glofish]

if they play the game and cut costs at every opportunity they will be well rewarded individually with bonus's and merit pots

To be fair, this is the mantra pretty much everywhere. In a civilised environment however there are counterbalances like a constitution and an applicable law, a more or less independent regulator, employee representative bodies and a judicial system that can be appealed. It's not perfect, but gives workers some sort of resort.

In the ME the locals pretend to have similar things, however the head and boss will always be the same making an open mockery of the system.

I agree that nationality makes little difference to those who participate in that scam. Some seem to embody it more easily though ....

[The Turtle]

just an observation, for those of you who have been here long enough....

Ed the Talking Horse in a previous environment worked for both sides of the aisle.....was once a union rep and also a regional CP.....

He was cut loose of the shackles of agreed upon rules and ethics and we all know the outcome......

I witnessed him first hand and he was a runaway train.....and I'm being generous. No one directly told him how to behave I reckon.....he just realized out here he could be the 'manager' he chose to be

And he was 'merican

..my 2 fils

[anson harris]

Glad to see you had the time to go through my posts.
Don't worry it took less than 10 seconds to get a flavour.
No offence.

[Nikita81]

The reality is the company needs managers from 'developed' nations
So those smart enough gradually creep away from any moral compass they ever had and fill their bank accounts.

Doesn't sound developed to me.

[Oldaircrew]

I don't think that nationality has anything to with it. All airline managers are rubbish.

[BANANASBANANAS]

The rot started to set in in the early 90's when hr managers started to take over the running of airlines from Pilot Managers. HR have destroyed this industry from the pilot perspective and it is only going to get worse I am afraid.