RAAF 50th Reunion

[ULH Extreme]

We are trying to work out if we have the numbers for a RAAF Reunion of Courses No's 65,66,67,and 68 which all started in 1967.

Anyone on these Courses, Army, Navy and Airforce who would like to attend, pls pm me. We are planning on a mid-year timescale to be held on the East Coast, ie Coffs. If you know of someone from this era, please pass on this info. Thankyou ULH

[MMSOB]

I was on 67 Cse, and with one other we have just started looking for wayward brethren. Our initial thoughts are for MEL in late Aug. Should we not get sufficient response then a combined thrash sounds great. Maybe do both!!!
How do we estab comms ex-pne? If you are with Avior, I'm the WA HonSec.
(ULH? - I flew a single sector 4.6hr in a DHC-4 once, but this was not my usual steed)

[ULH Extreme]

MMSOB Check your PM pls.

[SpazSinbad]

'MMSOB' I was on No.67 course - one of the four Midshipmen - three went to helos and great things in Vietnam. I just became a loud mouth according to some..... :-) You may see Clive Mayo in WA - a Helo Middie from No.67 - in recent video here:

Camaraderie- Vietnam Remembered, Clive Mayo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZdLA9iNmAY

[SpazSinbad]

Apologies for pic cutting - necessary for forum format. A great source for RAN/RAAF/Army pilot course pics has been posted - I'll find it again.... Meanwhile No.67 with Winjeel just before/after we started basic flying training at Point Cook beginning of 1968 (ground school started late 1967). Middies have red halos. It is obvious at main page below that not all course photos are there. I'll send photos with names from logbook to them soonish.... As explained Ware (RAAFA) & Coffey (Army) were sawn in 'alf.

Pilot Course Photos:
http://www.radschool.org.au/Course%20Photos/Pilots/Pilots.htm

Most RAAF No.67 Pilot Course Members:
http://www.radschool.org.au/Course%20Photos/Pilots/67Pilots.htm

Odds & Sods:
http://www.radschool.org.au/Course%20Photos/Pilots/images/67Pilot.jpg

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l261/SpazSinbad/NewNewAllBum/67pilotCourseWinjeelRANredTOPbtm.jpg~original (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/SpazSinbad/media/NewNewAllBum/67pilotCourseWinjeelRANredTOPbtm.jpg.html)

[Viking805]

You in this pic ULH Extreme?

http://www.pprune.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=1426&stc=1&d=1482207720

[ULH Extreme]

SPAZ..... Is that you under the 67 ? I'm on top.

[SpazSinbad]

Yep. Is you The NIPPER? Johnny? Not FrankROBBO who nearly got me canned at the end at Pearce. :-) Crapped on from a great height - AGAIN. OR is it BobBurstBalls? I have the names to just about everyone in that photo.

[BBadanov]

On top, looks like Burst Balls.

[SpazSinbad]

Index of names - underlined in red/scarlet those killed in early RAAF service. Black underline is our one and only early dropout - all others graduated at Pearce, whilst ARMY departed for greener pastures after Point Cook. Arnie Fox is named in the photo because he does not appear in our Dec 1968 Pearce Graduation photo - on early leave.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l261/SpazSinbad/NewNewAllBum/67pilotCourseWinjeelRANredgreenARMYindexForum.gif~original (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/SpazSinbad/media/NewNewAllBum/67pilotCourseWinjeelRANredgreenARMYindexForum.gif.html)

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l261/SpazSinbad/NewNewAllBum/67pilotCourseWinjeelFORUM.gif~original (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/SpazSinbad/media/NewNewAllBum/67pilotCourseWinjeelFORUM.gif.html)

[SpazSinbad]

This Grad photo 13 Dec 1968 at Pearce is from an annotated PDF page from a photo in my logbook - best quality I can muster. Arnold Fox not in this photo - see above. FaceFook used to have this photo however I'm not a joiner and so I cannot know.

https://www.facebook.com/ranfaah/photos/a.955541007796544.1073741933.700719019945412/955543351129643/?type=3&theater
&
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.955541007796544.1073741933.700719019945412&type=3

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l261/SpazSinbad/NewNewAllBum/67pilotCourseGradDec1968pearceForum.gif~original (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/SpazSinbad/media/NewNewAllBum/67pilotCourseGradDec1968pearceForum.gif.html)

[SpazSinbad]

OMG 'Viking805' there we/I am at Werribee, (home of the **** farm) Point Cook late 1967. I cannot quite recognize the first two on left due photo quality and their lack of poise. Seated in the notHOLDENo is crazywinski then moi then good ole TED sitting on the dock of the bay then that FLASH kid from the islands ALF who went on to star in the Miracle Form Team [named after Goodrem] soon afterwards. I'll guess first on left is Bowen?

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l261/SpazSinbad/NewNewAllBum/AlfAllenDELTAS1969forum.gif~original (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/SpazSinbad/media/NewNewAllBum/AlfAllenDELTAS1969forum.gif.html)

[ULH Extreme]

VIKING 805.........No But i was on the Bludget Run Amuk van run where we put it on blocks, stuck in reverse and reduced the mileage.
Spaz Don't remember, fill me in. Is it too late for an apology ?

[SpazSinbad]

'ULH Extreme' for a starters there are several bods directly above me - witch is youse?

I never apologise because I never do nuffin' rong. Hokay? :-) What are you talking about? 49 years and never seen nobody since (RAAFwise but a few). And yeah not knowing who you are I will ask all No.67 course to applypollyloggy. :-) WUT?!

[Viking805]

Bet you're in this one.

[Viking805]

... and this one.

[Viking805]

... but not this one.

[ULH Extreme]

SPAZ, Viking and BBad , are you guys in for a reunion ? At the mo, looking like being held in union with the Avior Lunch, held in Sydney late July. If you have never been to one, Avior Lunches are a great event held yearly since the 80s and run extremely well By Guppy, Prowse and Fred.
pm me pls your d

[SpazSinbad]

Over the old years literally some landed in the pooh here Werribee ****Farm - no engine usually and not far from Point Cook: https://www.flickr.com/photos/38049473@N00/324750182/sizes/o/

AGAIN there is facefook so I'll have to remake photo of No.68 grads Pearce: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.955541007796544.1073741933.700719019945412&type=3

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l261/SpazSinbad/NewNewAllBum/WinjeelOverWerribee****FarmFORUM.jpg~original (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/SpazSinbad/media/NewNewAllBum/WinjeelOverWerribee****FarmFORUM.jpg.html)

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l261/SpazSinbad/NewNewAllBum/67pilotCourseClothBadge1968forum.jpg~original (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/SpazSinbad/media/NewNewAllBum/67pilotCourseClothBadge1968forum.jpg.html)

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l261/SpazSinbad/NewNewAllBum/1BFTSbadgeCloth.jpg~original (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/SpazSinbad/media/NewNewAllBum/1BFTSbadgeCloth.jpg.html)

[SpazSinbad]

No.68 Pilot Course PEARCE Graduation Photo - date? - dunno. Fred can tell some STORYs....

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l261/SpazSinbad/NewNewAllBum/68pilotCourseGradsPearceFORUM.jpg~original (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/SpazSinbad/media/NewNewAllBum/68pilotCourseGradsPearceFORUM.jpg.html)

[SpazSinbad]

No.1 AFTS changed to 2FTS after No.67 graduated Dec 1968. We wuz the second last Vampire course whilst No.68 wuz the FIRST MACCHI course but of course they also did basic on the WINJEEL (the flying brick ****house) "wheels down & welded" three greens on base turn. The only two all Macchi courses were a few courses later. So last Vampire course No.69.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l261/SpazSinbad/NewNewAllBum/1AFTSpearceBadgeClothForum.jpg~original (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/SpazSinbad/media/NewNewAllBum/1AFTSpearceBadgeClothForum.jpg.html)

[SpazSinbad]

No.67 Pilot Course Ground School started in Oct 1967. The four Navy Midshipman on this course, fresh from about 3 months onboard HMAS Anzac, arrived just before the RAN FAA Vampire crash. This course had No.17 RAAF Academy Graduates joining later for flying training, starting beginning of 1968. FLGOFF Barkley did not make the course.... Laverton is just a few miles north of Point Cook.

FLGOFF S. Barkley pax: www.adf-serials.com/newsletter/news1006.pdf

"N6-837 4105 T.34T34A Delivered 1954. Originally A79-837. Coded 927, 956 or 960 between 1954-58. Coded 805 between 1963-68. Noted in Navy service still wearing A79-837. Crashed 11/10/67 Laverton Vic. Killed were the Pilot Sub Lt Lynch and passenger [FLGOFF S. Barkley]. Noel Fenton adds “Crashed at Laverton in October 1967. The cause of the crash was the failure of the engine main thrust bearing at a critical time during takeoff. The aircraft continued beyond the runway end into the over-run. Unfortunately, it hit the railway embankment which demolished the nose of the aircraft and caused damage to one of the two full drop tanks. Burning fuel sprayed over the two crew and they died from major burns. The non-pilot (a Pilot Officer just graduated from Melbourne University) was an Engineering Officer attached to ARDU and had been posted to Point Cook for his Pilots Course [No.67] a day or so earlier."
ADF Serials Message Board -> Crash Of Vampire N6-838 (http://www.adf-messageboard.com.au/invboard/index.php?showtopic=1611) & http://www.adf-messageboard.com.au/invboard/uploads/post-7-1301446928.jpg

[SpazSinbad]

No.68 course BEGINNER photo at Point Cook here with the ODds&Sodds photo completely bogus (it is for RAN & Army from several years beforehand): RAAF Radschool Association - Course Photos (http://www.radschool.org.au/Course%20Photos/Pilots/68Pilots.htm)

http://www.radschool.org.au/Course%20Photos/Pilots/images/68Pilot%202.jpg

[SpazSinbad]

'Viking805' I guess we see your car in second photo with Lloyd Smith and his hotrod in first & second photo. Does the third photo show us 'eating pizza' (me for the first time) on 'banks of Yarra' - the classic laundry run? Sure - we wuz thirsty also.... :-)

Characters in that third photo 'watching the rowing': L to R: Clive Mayo, Ted Collett, Bill Shurey, moi, ??? Bowen, Henry? Kwaczynski, Bob Burstall?

[Viking805]

not BB on the right Spaz, it's Alf.

[Viking805]

ULH Extreme, I quite like your original idea, i.e. a piss up at Coffs - provided it doesn't become a "Shriners Convention" with organised events, speeches, etc.

[SpazSinbad]

'Viking805' of BATC 2/67 designed the cloth badge seen below - starting late January 1967 at HMAS Cerberus (across the bay from Point Cook) Basic Aircrew Training Course Number 2 in 1967, was split into 2 parts A & B. The logo is from a cartoon crow from the 'Ettamoggah Pub' series, it should have read “Crikey Mate!” Part A was the front of the alphabet and they went to No. 66 Pilot course - only one RAN FAA pilot graduated (Dick Scott I'm looking at you).

The first half of BATC 2/67 were spared the sea time but the second half from the alphabet ladder had a good holiday touring the south Pacific waiting for No.67 course to commence. :-)

BATC 1/67 had started a few weeks earlier and very quickly they went to No.65 pilot course, where most graduated as I recall (memory hazy because not me chief).

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l261/SpazSinbad/NewNewAllBum/BATC2-67patchClothForum.jpg~original (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/SpazSinbad/media/NewNewAllBum/BATC2-67patchClothForum.jpg.html)

[SpazSinbad]

This news item will be relevant to some of the old course members:

Australian Defence Force Members awarded Republic of Vietnam Cross of Gallantry with Palm Unit Citation
21 December 2016
"Australian Defence Force members from the Royal Australian Navy Clearance Diving Team Three (CDT3), Royal Australian Navy Helicopter Flight Vietnam (RANHFV), Royal Australian Air Force Transport Flight Vietnam (RTFV)/35 Squadron (SQN) and 9 SQN who served in Vietnam 50 years ago have been recognised with the Republic of Vietnam Cross of Gallantry with Palm Unit Citation (the Citation)....

...To be eligible for the Citation members must have served in Vietnam under the command of MACV and posted to one of the following units, during the eligible dates:

· Royal Australian Navy Clearance Diving Team Three from 5 February 1967 to 5 May 1971

· Royal Australian Navy Helicopter Flight Vietnam from 16 October 1967 to 8 June 1971

· Royal Australian Navy personnel in 9 Squadron (8 personnel) from February 1968 to April 1969

· Royal Australian Air Force personnel in 9 Squadron from June 1966 to December 1971

· Royal Australian Air Force Transport Flight Vietnam/35 Squadron from August 1964 to February 1972..."
https://www.minister.defence.gov.au/minister/dan-tehan/media-releases/australian-defence-force-members-awarded-republic-vietnam-cross
&
http://www.defence.gov.au/Medals/Foreign/RVCGPUC.asp

http://www.defence.gov.au/Medals/_Master/images/Foreign/RVCGPUC-L.jpg

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l261/SpazSinbad/NewNewAllBum/Republic%20of%20Vietnam%20Cross%20of%20Gallantry%20with%20Pa lm%20Unit%20CitationFORUM.jpg~original (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/SpazSinbad/media/NewNewAllBum/Republic%20of%20Vietnam%20Cross%20of%20Gallantry%20with%20Pa lm%20Unit%20CitationFORUM.jpg.html)

[SpazSinbad]

LCDR Clive Mayo RAN (retd) died in a W.A. hospital 31 Dec 2016. R.I.P.

Great photo here of Clive & son when CO HU-816: http://www.faaaa.asn.au/obituaries/mayo-clive-lcdr-o94696/

http://3j8lrq31uyjk1yo9b01c7jub.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/CliveMayo-1.jpg

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l261/SpazSinbad/NewNewAllBum/CliveMayoampsonCOhu816.jpg~original (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/SpazSinbad/media/NewNewAllBum/CliveMayoampsonCOhu816.jpg.html)

[SpazSinbad]

An RAN posting notice has No.67 Pilot Course starting 27 Oct 1967 with No.68 on 08 Jan 1968 (but theys wuz often rong).

From:http://www.navy.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/Navy_News-November-8-1968.pdf DRAScott commonly known as 'Dick' - sole grad c.Nov 1968 at Pearce No.66 Pilot Course.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l261/SpazSinbad/NewNewAllBum/ScottGradPearceNov1968navyNews.jpg~original (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/SpazSinbad/media/NewNewAllBum/ScottGradPearceNov1968navyNews.jpg.html)

[SpazSinbad]

An infamous radio call "Chicken Man" when no instructors were airborne:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDDoSb73rA8

[SpazSinbad]

E-mail about Clive Mayo received today from Jeff Chartier:
"Good evening one and all,
On behalf of Commander Fleet Air Arm, CDRE Chris Smallhorn, and National President of the Fleet Air Arm Association, RADM Mark Campbell (Rtd), I have the unfortunate task of closing out 2016 with the news that former RAN FAA member, Clive Mayo, ‘crossed the bar’ at approx. 0500 WST today, 31 Dec 2016, following a short stay in hospital. He had suffered from kidney failure and lung disease (so far not attributable to cancer), & his body had wasted away to the point that his heart was unable to cope.

Clive was part of the 3rd Contingent of the RAN Helicopter Flight Vietnam, as well as the first CO of the reformed HU-816 SQN in 1984, operating Wessex in the Army Support and Utility roles.

http://www.faaaa.asn.au/snippets-history-operation-bursa/

Former COMFAA, CDRE Vince Di Pietro offered the following statement today re: Clive which I thought was appropriate to share:
"Clive was a terrific, uncomplicated bloke who enjoyed life to the fullest and at times at full afterburner when idle would have more than sufficed! I remember his affection for Wessex 813 'Calamity Jane'; his prowess at cryptic crosswords; an uncanny ability to attract more poo as a CO than the total aggregation of his Squadron's SL Sub Lieutenants; his tiger pattern [CO HU-816 TIGERS] unregistered Mini - as much at home when illegal on the 'Tross roads as it was on its roof in the Wardroom; and, his pet dog who could chew through 240volt washing machine power cords and not feel a thing! Vale Boss!"
Mr Jeff Chartier

[SpazSinbad]

from e-mail: "3rd Contingent HFV, Mentioned in Dispatches, US Air Medal, Wounded in Action 6 March 1970"

http://www.navy.gov.au/history/squadron-histories/ran-helicopter-flight-vietnam-history

ANDY PERRY talks about his NAVY time: http://australiansatwarfilmarchive.unsw.edu.au/archive/1369-andrew-perry

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l261/SpazSinbad/NewNewAllBum/Clive%20Mayo%20IMG_4524%20PDF%20TIFforum.jpg~original (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/SpazSinbad/media/NewNewAllBum/Clive%20Mayo%20IMG_4524%20PDF%20TIFforum.jpg.html)

[SpazSinbad]

From NAVY NEWS 30 May 1969 - No.68 course visits HMS Hermes in Fremantle:

http://www.navy.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/Navy_News-May-30-1969.pdf

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l261/SpazSinbad/NewNewAllBum/HERMESvisitNo68courseFremantleMay1968forum.jpg~original (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/SpazSinbad/media/NewNewAllBum/HERMESvisitNo68courseFremantleMay1968forum.jpg.html)

[SpazSinbad]

And for the fish heads among us - anyone interested - BATC2/67 braves the storm aboard HMAS Anzac:

http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/records/awm78/34/awm78-34-11.pdf

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l261/SpazSinbad/NewNewAllBum/ANZACtongaCycloneBATC2-67forum.jpg~original (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/SpazSinbad/media/NewNewAllBum/ANZACtongaCycloneBATC2-67forum.jpg.html)

[SpazSinbad]

Not being able to attend any reunion the very latest 04 April 2017 4.4Gb PDF explanation of my involvement in the RAN Fleet Air Arm with a 'scrapbook' history of fixed wing and helos along with a 'how to deck land' explanation - amongst many other naval aviation topics - is available here: (please read download advice - it is especially important)

This RAN Fleet Air Arm Association webpage has links to the Microsoft OneDrive &/or GoogleDrive pages where the files may be viewed/downloaded after first registering for free to do so (their requirement - not mine). Again please follow download advice.

BTW any attempt to view the PDFs ONLINE will likely result in disappointment with the very large PDF files. As a rule please download the PDFs first and then view them with the latest version of Adobe Reader suitable for your operating system. Other pdf readers will not cope with the PDFs otherwise.

https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l261/SpazSinbad/NewNewAllBum/04apr17RANFAAskyhawkA4Gpp12410pdfCOVERforum.gif~original (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/SpazSinbad/media/NewNewAllBum/04apr17RANFAAskyhawkA4Gpp12410pdfCOVERforum.gif.html)

[SpazSinbad]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqzlNILBgbM

[tartare]

Spaz - what's that lanyard type thing that connects to the underside of the jet from the catapult shoe?

[SpazSinbad]

The catapult bridle via bridle hooks connects the aircraft to the catapult shuttle, the bridle is arrested at the end of the catapult stroke by a catcher lanyard. Before catcher installed the bridle was thrown into the sea. SloMo Video shows catcher at work.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l261/SpazSinbad/NewNewAllBum/A-4steamCatapultAttachmentsFORUM.gif~original (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/SpazSinbad/media/NewNewAllBum/A-4steamCatapultAttachmentsFORUM.gif.html)
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l261/SpazSinbad/NewNewAllBum/A4GcatBridleUnrestrainedFORUM.jpg~original (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/SpazSinbad/media/NewNewAllBum/A4GcatBridleUnrestrainedFORUM.jpg.html)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2UbG7aWrHc

[StopStart]

Interesting video - what was the duty of the crew member who sets off running with the launch? Is he recovering/clearing the bridle for the next launch?

[SpazSinbad]

Yes. Along with an offsider (seen in first instance) for safety, they would recover the bridle from the bridle catcher ASAP.

[tartare]

Aha - I see!
That is a crazy small cat stroke - and quite an extraordinary degree of acceleration - even for a jet as compact as the Skyhawk.
Like taking off from, and landing on a matchbox.
I had never realised how tiny the Aussie carriers were.
It must have been incredibly challenging.
What speed did you aim to nail as you hit the deck?
And I thought an F4 made the Ark Royal look small...

[Three Wire]

On optimum Alpha at Max carrier landing weight, it was 128KIAS. Less the wind over the deck, probably 104kts ground (deck) speed. Deceleration approximately 4g.

[SpazSinbad]

This recent thread has a lot of information about the catapult, arrest & deck size comparison along with a graph for A4G Weight, Optimum Angle of Attack for Approach KIAS starting from here and scroll down the pages, particularly on page three (2nd URL):

Cat stroke 100 feet with a lateral acceleration of 5-6G depending upon circumstances. Day deck landings were OK within weather/sea limits whilst night deck landings were (as noted by all naval aviators) ..... :mad: :eek:

Not perhaps well known: it seems because of previous Sea Venom pilot deck landing experience (requiring a short curved approach because for the Venom Pilot seeing the mirror must have been difficult over that bulbous nose obscuring the view) the early A4G circuits were carried out at 400 feet AMSL, rather than NATOPS height of 600 feet. 400 was my preference because the mirror could be picked up at least half way around a level base turn and flown for a short straightaway (less chance for error perhaps). The 600 footer required a 'descending' base turn which to me was not as precise, but mandated by the USN trained LSOs, during the latter part of the cruise. The higher downwind allowed a better look at the carrier but I still preferred the 400 footer.

Night landings were always from a CCA to one mile with perhaps the controller continuing to talk till about the half mile then - oh the horror. :}

http://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/592147-carrier-landings-decceleration-pilots-head.html#post9705103
&
http://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/592147-carrier-landings-decceleration-pilots-head-3.html#post9710043

[SpazSinbad]

About 'small': I have not operated from a large deck carrier with a large angle - although some VF-805 pilots later cross decked aboard USS Enterprise. Cannot recall angle of HMS Eagle [8.5 degrees] but being my first roller deck landings what did I know. The 5.5 degree angle deck of MELBOURNE made line up easier I would imagine; whilst I do not recall the 'burble' - or that term being used - at all. So I'll guess it must have been minimal. MELBOURNE rarely made smoke during flight ops to my knowledge whereas some old 'boilers' made muchos smoke.

Having mastered approaches through the downdraught of Runway 26 at NAS Nowra (the cause of many wrecks - some fatal Sea Venoms - it even caught a RAAF Caribou) any burble must have been just a bump in the road. :} We did MADDLS Mirror Assisted Dummy Deck Landings (or FCLP) on RW 26 at night with sometimes a strong westerly wind. No worries - A4G had great power response at landing weights. All airfield lights were out along with as many of the base/married quarter lights as possible, with the MELBOURNE deck marked out with portable limpet lights, which could bounce alarmingly undamaged if hit by aircraft wheels, LSOs said.

One rough day I was 'long in the groove' (probably due new 600 foot circuit height) and I allowed my scan to encompass the stern of MELBOURNE doing a tight barrel roll - then went back to soda straw vision of MEATBALL - LINE UP & AIRSPEED (Optimum Angle of Attack) and never again did my vision go wide. :ok:

[tartare]

A sweeping 400 foot approach onto a deck that size and doing the same thing at night... I take my hat off to you guys.
You mentioned downdraft on 26 at Nowra - googled it and read this (https://www.airservicesaustralia.com/aip/current/ersa/FAC_YSNW_10-Nov-2016.pdf) noting ADDITIONAL INFORMATION
1. SEV downdraft may be experienced WI 1NM on final RWY 26 during westerly wind ABV 7KT. Assume that was due to waves off hills to the west? 26 now seems to be closed on google earth

[Ascend Charlie]

There was a story circulating in the 70s when our War Canoe was still operational, where some A-4s were invited to do some crashes and dashes on a large US carrier.

The lads loved it, and in return invited the US boys to come and do some on ours. The USN arrived in the circuit, took a look at the size of the boat, said "Y'all gotta be kiddin'!!" and flew back to their boat.

[SpazSinbad]

'tartare' the night approach was a long CCA Carrier Controlled Approach, more or less the same as a GCA Ground Controlled Approach. The 4.4Gb PDF has heaps of info about carrier landings from the beginning until today with the F-35B/C. Amongst the heaps are pages about how a Sea Venom radar was installed on HMAS Melbourne (and other HM carriers) to become the CCA radar with it unseen in the metal dome aft atop the island.

There is nothing to be seen except blackness at sea at night until perhaps at one mile the bright mirror lights are seen (but early on difficult for me to differentiate). From my reading I believe the USN OLS Optical Landing System has much better viewability from a greater distance, however they do precision instrument approaches. The A4G with the early TACAN on MELBOURNE did not have sufficient resolution for any pilot instrument approach, except to a CCA pickup.

The runways of NAS Nowra are on a tabletop about 300 feet above terrain. To the east the ground drops away dramatically in a gully running more or less west to east for the under run of RW 26. With the strong westerly winds the turbulence can be violent everywhere in the circuit. One night a Sea Venom crew ejected after turning downwind in this turbulence, striking treetops during the rollout. First night ejection in ADF - both OK.

I think I can attach a zipped PDF here of some size so I'll attempt this soon with some pages about RW 26 and the downdraught. Yes the runway is closed because the arresting system is being removed AFAIK. It will reopen I'm told once that is complete but I do not know for sure.

My SP Senior Pilot on VC-724 put the fear of god in me about the downdraught on Runway 26. The Vampire had woeful engine acceleration from low RPM whilst the Sea Venom was better with an engine control unit, the VAMP just had your steady left hand. In the A4G and Macchi the throttle could be slammed open but in the Macchi one would rather NOT do that. Two pilots and a passenger died in two Sea Venom crashes due to downdraught Runway 26. Other Sea Venom downdraught crashes caused minor injuries.

An attempt c.1970 was made to fill in the underrun gully a little bit by scrapping the hill in the overrun of the same runway, transporting the dirt by dump trucks on a temporary road. It reminded me of the guy in hospital, covered completely in bandages, in CATCH 22, who had tubes running from one end to the other that were reversed every once in a while. The new dirt moved the downdraught effect further away from the threshold but did not ameliorate the lethality if one was negligent.

The RAAF Caribou was the first doing a tour of Oz demonstrating ability in 1964. Even though they were warned (as we were on base RW 26 every time) about the downdraught they underestimated the effect to end up smashing onto the concrete before the piano keys, clipping the wheels on the concrete lip (a road was causing this effect) then breaking the back of the aircraft with the wings flopping onto the runway. Some crew were injured.

I see a 7Mb PDF is allowed so I'll try that soonishlike.

[SpazSinbad]

Attached 36 page PDF has most of the relevant PDF pages about the downdraught on RW 26 at NAS Nowra with info on the crashes. No URL/links are live in this PDF because it has been 'reprinted' (prn) to reduce the file size. Upload failed so I'll try again.... Failed again as PDF under 7Mb.... Failed again as a ZipPDF at 6.2Mb. Dunno. The file could be uploaded to GoogleDrive with a direct URL but not sure if one has to register with a direct link. Untried.

GaGaDrive Link should work for viewing & download: always best to download first & then view with latest Adobe Reader suitable for your operating system. However I see for this 'reprinted' PDF that whatever is used on GoogieDriveBy views this PDF OK - for any other PDFs use method described please.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B9YKUKd0JpYxNkpMVDA1SDU5dGM

[tartare]

Spaz - have you considered setting up your own website?
Given the wealth of info and documents you've got, as well as great yarns, it'd probably be very popular.

[SpazSinbad]

That story about 'large carrier pilots' is probably apocryphal. As well as using USS Enterprise as an airfield (so described in a story about the adventure) our A4Gs also plonked on USS Kearsarge (described earlier in the other thread) as well as USS Ticonderoga c.1971-2 and that was that to my knowledge BUT SADLY I do not know everyfing. :}

Please recall that an A-4B from da USN was the first Skyhawk to arrest and catapult from HMAS Melbourne back in 1965 - so dere is dat. 'HOLY ****! he said after the catapult. No one heard what he said on the first downwind.

I've been at this humungous PDFing for a dozen years or so - using various download websites - sometimes managed by moi and then GoogieEggDrive and WunDrive sprung up so I brieved a sigh of relief to use their convoluted ever changing download good stuff. This FAAAA URL is a good start point because there are explanations about 'how to'. You cannot believe the troubles people can have downloading but some get it right because they read the instructions: (look around both sites for more PDFs/videos)

https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/

[SpazSinbad]

Tinkers arrest aboard ENTERPRISE a TOY STORY from Navy News 28 July 1978 http://www.navy.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/Navy_News-July-28-1978.pdf
"...it was just like being a CRAB pilot landing on a runway..."
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l261/SpazSinbad/NewNewAllBum/VF-805navyNews28jul1978enterpriseFORUM.gif~original (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/SpazSinbad/media/NewNewAllBum/VF-805navyNews28jul1978enterpriseFORUM.gif.html)

[SpazSinbad]

FWIW at ScribD there is now a 56 page 10.5Mb PDF about the Downdraught RW 26 at NAS Nowra along with info about the first night ejection in the ADF due strong westerly wing circuit turbulence: as always best to download the PDF and then view it with the latest ADOBE READER suitable for your operating system.

https://www.scribd.com/document/345149699/DownDraughtRW26nasNowraPP56prn

During the Sea Venom/Gannet era there were no LSOs aboard MELBOURNE. However the Venoms had the Observer in the right seat calling out the airspeed - a luxury I never experienced - only flying from the runways at Nowra with my head on a swivel back and forth peering out over the bulbous nose for the portable mirror/runway and back to airspeed. Anyhoo.... the graphic is a page from the 805 era squadron line book.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l261/SpazSinbad/NewNewAllBum/805linebookVenom1stDLcartoonForum.gif~original (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/SpazSinbad/media/NewNewAllBum/805linebookVenom1stDLcartoonForum.gif.html)

[SpazSinbad]

There may be better '1st person' carrier approach videos out there however AFAIK this one best illustrates the technique used by the old 'visual' approach A4G pilot. From what I have read current USN pilots tend to use the very accurate instruments to gauge distance downwind for example. To do it by 'eye' as seen by this Etendard pilot - with head swivelling - is the example needed. If you can see about half way around base turn the A4G pilot would pick up the meatball in the mirror and then fly it. At the same time the aircraft must 'cross the wake' of the carrier to line up on the angle deck centreline then 'nibble' to the right - perhaps - if already lined up to remain lined up (the angle deck centreline is always moving to the right during the approach).

Other Etendard videos show manic control movements that don't appear to be sped up - they show the pilot doing his thing. Some pilots may try to be smooth - others more concerned with accuracy and less with the smoothness. I cannot say I have not flown the Etendard.

USN pilot carrier approach videos appear to be edited so as to not show the complete approach and/or the canopy bits are in the way. In this video we can see that the meatball appears 'high' but that is the camera view. The pilot is likely seeing the meatball lined up accurately with the datum lights (again a guess).

The angle of attack indicator is almost impossible to see [it is on left of HUD and seems to be always dim] but sometimes it shows the 'circle' which is Optimum and sometime - very briefly - it flashes to top but then back to OPT. Mostly I cannot discern what it shows but likely always at Optimum AoA. :}

Carrier Charles de Gaulle, Etendard trap

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmBmulcUZj0

[SpazSinbad]

How's the reunion org going 'ULH Extreme'? Got a second wind here for some more course photo URLs with MUGshots:

No.65 Pilot Course:
RAAF Radschool Association - Course Photos (http://www.radschool.org.au/Course%20Photos/Pilots/65Pilots.htm)

No.66 Pilot Course:
RAAF Radschool Association - Course Photos (http://www.radschool.org.au/Course%20Photos/Pilots/66Pilots.htm)

[SpazSinbad]

I guess this Oz Navy News item should go here because it relates to a No.67 Pilot Course member (rather than go in the ANZAC Day thread - however two other RAN pilots are involved in the 'news' one trained in the USofA though I think - Mick Perrott was on No.61 Pilot Course 1967). Anyway 6 years on and miles to go... https://www.faaaa.asn.au/tribunals-report-regarding-ranhfv-awards/
"...Commodore Farthing and Captain Ray requested that SBLT Perry receive the Distinguished Flying Cross (DFC) and Commander Bell believes that he should receive the Victoria Cross for Australia (VC) for ‘his night of outstanding bravery’..." https://www.faaaa.asn.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Perry.pdf (190Kb)

LCDR Farthing CO at the time of RANHFV3 which Andy Perry was on was also our Division Officer during Basic Aircrew Training earlier at HMAS Cerberus beginning of 1967. LCDR Bell (at that time) is seen as the passenger with CMDR N.E.Lee (Nelly - geddit) in the very last Vampire flight video but was CO of various helo squadrons in early 1970s - CAPT Ray? Dunno.

BZ Andy - I'm hoping things go well.

[SpazSinbad]

Never have so many words been explicated for little result but one hopes that soon it will all end well. GO ANDY! :-)

[SpazSinbad]

Yet another inquiry for RANHFV includes "service at the Battles of Fire Support Bases Coral and Balmoral."

https://www.faaaa.asn.au/inquiry-military-honours/

[SpazSinbad]

An 'almost' RAN FAA History PDF available here: Johnno aka 'Meatball' was our first fast jet A4G LSO trained in the USofA - youse know Clive Mayo... There are plenty of other relevant Clive Mayo & Andy Perry stories therein but I'll leave for youse to read.

We Envy No Man On Earth Because We Fly. The Australian Fleet Air Arm: A Comparative Operational Study. 2016 Sharron Lee Spargo
"...Naval aviation has little in common with that of land-based flight, such as the Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF), which is a wholly land-based operation. The advantages of aviation in the maritime environment are obvious and distinct and naval aviators contend with a multitude of variables not experienced by their Air Force counterparts. Here Australian Navy Skyhawk pilot Keith Johnson explains why:
Many naval aviators are often asked, ‘Why join the navy to fly in preference to the Air Force?’ According to most, the primary reason was the challenge of operating from an aircraft carrier at sea. The three light fleet carriers to serve with the RAN all had one thing in common; their deck could move up and down many feet in as many seconds, offering a test of skill and professionalism not available in other forms of flying. A sea-going airfield presented other challenges too. The carrier could sail more than 2,000 miles in a week, with rapid changes in climatic conditions and introducing new terrain to test the pilot’s navigational skills. But the naval flyers’ greatest test was the launch of the aircraft with the aid of a catapult and landing on a tiny moving runway using the arrester wires. Before any attempt at carrier operations could even be envisaged, each pilot would be requested to make 100 simulated deck landings at NAS. This was normally followed by 20 carrier landings and a similar number of take offs before the more demanding task of night launches and landings."

"...Like all aircrew of the aircraft carrier era, Rogers completed his training with the RAAF and was awarded his wings. This milestone did not qualify Rogers to fly with the navy; further training had only just begun. Rogers explains that in the age of aircraft carriers gaining your ‘wings’ was only the beginning for naval aviators as the navy ‘take you back to Nowra and teach you to fly.’ Fellow pilot Clive Mayo clarifies this statement:
You learn the basics with the Air Force and then the navy teaches you to use the airplane. When you get back to Albatross we will teach you how to use the airplane, not just to fly it, but how to use it and take it to its limits. Without ammunition the Royal Australian Air Force would be the world’s most expensive flying club.

Flight training, either fixed-wing or rotary, is a dangerous undertaking that few members of the FAA forget. Dowsing recalls his initial training being challenging on many levels with a high percentage of trainees lacking the essential component - determination:
It’s a highly demanding job, both in terms of the job and just getting there, the learning process. I’m using a pilot as the example because that’s the one I’m comfortable with, but anyone can learn to fly, a monkey can fly, it’s just whether you’ve got the time to teach him. With time comes expense. In my course more than 50 percent didn’t pass the course. I started with 11 navy guys and three of us actually finished, two of us are still in the navy. You’ve really got to want to do it, it will test you, to become a pilot is a damn hard course, physically, mentally and academically.
&
"...Pilot Clive Mayo recalls his lucky escape and the unexpectedness of getting shot and wounded in flight:
It was May 21st 1970 and it was my American co-pilot Ted Muellers’ first flight in country. It was a combat assault in Ben Tranh and we were flying number three, in formation, and I said to Ted, I think you’d better take it because I think I’ve been hit. He just took the bloody aircraft off me, got on the radio and started screaming; ‘the AC’s been hit! The AC’s been hit!’ I said for Christ’s sake Ted, shut up! The Iroquois had quick release bolts on the pilots’ seats so that if someone got hurt the crew in the back could pull the pins out of the front seats and just throw the pilots’ seat back on its arse into the back of the aircraft so they could render first aid. I’d been hit by shrapnel all down my arm although I didn’t really feel anything, just looked down at my glove and there’s blood seeping through. The next thing I know I’m flat on my arse in the back of the aircraft and I’m bandaged from shoulder to fingers. I couldn’t fly and Ted’s in a panic and all over the place. I took the cyclic and he’s got the collective just to stay in formation and then I got the crew chief to take off most of the bandages so I could take control. When we eventually got back I had a good look at my arm, it was a bit of a mess with lots and lots of holes. It seems a couple of rounds have come into the aircraft, shattered and picked me up on the way past. There were holes in the instrument panel but nothing life threatening. I finished the day and then saw the medics at Bearcat.

The skills needed to operate and survive in Vietnam were many and Mayo recalls incidents where pilots demonstrated them all:
We did some awesome formation flying in Vietnam. We got blasé in formation; I mean in 1400 hours I was up there probably at least 1100 hours were in formation of 10. We got so blasé that we would fly with our wings overlapping the bloke next door. There were a few mid airs but no one was killed but a few airplanes got broken. The maintainers with whom we still have a very strong bond, used to say ‘for Christ sake you blokes, stop flying so bloody close you keep breaking these bloody things!’ You could bring an aircraft back full of bullet holes and they’d patch it up overnight and you could go out the next day and get some more and it was ‘can’t you blokes stop getting this ****, stop doing this ****!’ Sorry. There were some very good days but there were some very bad days.

On entering the mess at Nowra one night after returning from serving in 9 Squadron RAAF in Vietnam, John Brown was met with aggression:
When I first got back to Nowra I walked into the mess one night with my ribbons on and a commander, not an operational type, he was a supply commander, turned to me and said ‘take that **** off! It’s not a real war!’ The XO at the time was Norm Lee [FJ pilot extraordinaire] and I complained to him about it and he went and reamed this commander out and that fixed that. There was a lot of aggro.
https://www.faaaa.asn.au/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/We-Envy-No-Man-On-Earth-Because-We-Fly.pdf (2.2Mb)

[SpazSinbad]

Seems Andy either helps fly the HUEY in USofA or at least has flown in it as indicated in the story [US Army Sgt in photo but cropped out - there is a video but it runs very slowly - if at all]

Vietnam Veterans give therapy rides to fellow Vets in 1968 Huey Helicopter 24 Jun 2017 Leigh Martinez
"...EMU 309 is a Bell UH-1H Huey helicopter restored to its 1968 Vietnam War configuration..." Vietnam Veterans give therapy rides in 1968 Huey Helicopter - Story | KTVU (http://www.ktvu.com/news/263678860-story)

Photo: http://static.lakana.com/media.ktvu.com/photo/2017/06/25/Veteran_therapy_rides_0_3613703_ver1.0_640_360.jpg

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l261/SpazSinbad/NewNewAllBum/AndyPerryUSAjun2017.jpg~original (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/SpazSinbad/media/NewNewAllBum/AndyPerryUSAjun2017.jpg.html)

[pr00ne]

RAAF 50th thread?

What ever happened tonit?

[SpazSinbad]

tonit? Dunno. No.67 Pilot Course 50th anniversary reunion will be held last weekend in August at Point Chook.

[SpazSinbad]

Always a worry to go down the rabbit hole of the past. Here is the badge devised by the 1 BATC 1967 course (Basic Aircrew Training at HMAS Cerberus beginning of 1967).

[Ascend Charlie]

As a matter of interest, Sinbad, was the designer of the badge scrubbed off course?

There is a rather disconcerting history of this happening...

[SpazSinbad]

'Ascend Charlie' I do not know your identity nor where you get your information. Also the No.1 BATC 1967 was not me - I was in No.2 BATC 1967 which started about one month later and then we marked time (my B half went to sea) before going to Point Cook. The badges from BATC were often a collective effort but with one main designer I suppose for the final version. No.2 BATC badge was designed by 'Viking805' who went on No.68 course to become an A4G pilot & CMDR with a long career in RAN.

[Ascend Charlie]

If you were on 67 Course, Sinbad, I don't recognise any of the Navy faces there, sorry. Nor the sailors on 68, though I am familiar with most of the RAAFies on both courses.

On my 84 Course the badge designer didn't make it past BHT at Pearce.

[SpazSinbad]

OK - so you know RAMSDOG! What an outstanding chap he was (did you see the post on this forum about his life - he died a few years ago now). I was at RANC in 1966 with him - the great glider pilot. We met up again after his flying courses at NAS Nowra on VC-724 then he started his A4G course. Dave had a great career with a two year exchange in RN FAA flying the Harrier. I'll find the thread.... http://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/498539-crewroom-nicknames.html?highlight=ramsdog#post7478241 His BIO: https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=CBCD63D6340707E6&id=CBCD63D6340707E6%21116

There are two PDFs about Dave - try this one: https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=CBCD63D6340707E6&id=CBCD63D6340707E6%211199&parId=CBCD63D6340707E6%21116&o=OneUp (PDF 25.5Mb)

Wilson went to Trackers but bombed out going back to fishheadland and sadly he died many years ago now. Also our great FLYING DOCTOR Mick Flynn was on your course. Mick had a great doctor career in RAN reaching high rank Surgeon Commodore. He learnt to fly the A4G but did not carry out any armament training [do no harm doctore] but he did advise on our issues such as the 'high G at low level COUGH' (medical term I can never remember). acceleration atelectasis

84 Pilot Course Photos:
RAAF Radschool Association - Course Photos (http://www.radschool.org.au/Course%20Photos/Pilots/84Pilots.htm)

[Ascend Charlie]

Yes, Dave was my best man at my second wedding, and very sad about his sudden departure. Bill's wife Jill comes to our course reunions - big one coming up next year, though for 21 Academy rather than 84 Pilots. Our other sailors were Concrete Boots, now in CASA, and Tom Hopeless who went to the airlines after failing Trackers like Bill.

I had a minor part in the training of Vincenzo di P (known as Nick da Petrol) who has gone on to bigger things after leaving the navy, and also in Midshipman Skinsbin who is still doing big things but as a crab.

[SpazSinbad]

Heheh. It is a small world eh. Yes Bill & Jill. Jill was the best girlfriend of an old Brizzie girlfriend Arlie; so I knew Bill at RANC also in 1966; then Arlie/Jill when visiting Brisbane in 1967 aboard HMAS Anzac. I do not know VdiP but he went to LM Oz - no? Middie Binnie - WOW. What a career. I would like to meet him one day to reminisce about the 'rabbit hole' that was the now folded fixed wing RAN FAA. :}

[SpazSinbad]

My BATC 2/67 almost followed these chaps to USofA USN training but exingencies and all that they were the last to go. All following BATCs stayed in Oz to befuddle the crabs. Photo from http://www.navy.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/Navy_News-January-6-1967.pdf All of the USN trained carried out their first deck landings in the T-28C - not possible with CRAB training.

[SpazSinbad]

OMG - the boyos wot made it to the 50th reunion at Point Cook, 26 Aug 2017. I recognize some faces but will have to puzzle some others. Photo taker may provide some help so names may come later as I do not want to embarrass anyone. :} Backdrop is some kind of 50 year old RAAF crate wot some flew all those almost many years ago - often in dangerous places to boot.

Standing L-R: Andy Perry; Barry Dick; Warren Taske; Mike Lewino (QFI); Frank Robinson; Murray Smythe (No.68 course); Ray Borysewicz; Ray Conroy; Peter Bysouth; Phil Smith; Ken Scott; Rob Paige (QFI)

Front L-R: Lang Kidby; Denis Gardiner; Roger Brewster; Bob Redman; Frank Burke; Graham Dutton; Adrian Slootjes; Alf Allen

[SpazSinbad]

Lengthy history of Point Cook down the years - sadly not a lot of info about the Winjeel era but given the 'history' otherwise provided this is an excellent read. Good to see that at last the history of the site is recognized and it will be preserved (for now anyway).

An Interesting Point a history of military aviation at Point Cook 1914-2014 / Steve Campbell-Wright
“...Australia’s commitment to the Vietnam War in the early 1960s increased the demand for pilots, and airline pilot recruitment campaigns accounted for many pilot discharges. So, pilot training at Point Cook was placed under considerable pressure as the expected annual graduation rate increased from 38 before 1964 to 100 by 1968. In addition to this, Point Cook trained pilots for the Navy and Army at a rate of 12 and 28 each year respectively. On busy days, it was not unusual to have four parallel runways operating at Point Cook as aircraft also departed for training at Laverton and Bacchus Marsh. There could be over a dozen aircraft in the circuit at one time....” (page 176)
&
“...The last RAAF Academy graduation parade—that of No 35 Course—was held on 11 December 1985, and was reviewed by the Governor-General, Sir Ninian Stephen, in front of a record audience of 1500 dignitaries and family members. The Queens’ Colour for the RAAF Academy was laid up in the Officers Mess after the parade, and a handling display of the latest F/A-18 Hornet jet fighter was given by Flight Lieutenant Mark Binskin [ex-A4G now CDF]. Some 660 students had graduated from the RAAF College and RAAF Academy in their near four-decade existence...” (page 190)
&
“...The move from the southern tarmac into the RAAF Academy buildings provided something of a breath of fresh air for Officers’ Training School, literally in fact, because the summer aroma of rotting seaweed provided a foul smell remarked on by all who worked there. It is debatable whether the seaweed was the cause, because once improvements were made to the Board of Works sewerage farm settling tanks at Werribee South in the late 1990s, the seaweed did not seem to smell as much....” http://www.radschool.org.au/Books/An%20interesting%20Point.pdf (15Mb)

[Ascend Charlie]

Sinbad, that circuit depicted above must have been mighty tight, if flown at 325'. But it shows that the aircraft might still be climbing at the end of the crosswind turn - possibilities are:
a. VERY small circuit; or
b. VERY underpowered aircraft.

Picture of Point Cook doesn't show the east-west grass very clearly, or grass 13/31 which was often misread from the other end and students joined for the wrong direction.

Bluddy salt lake, ran around that one far too often. Visited the sightboard a couple of times too.

[SpazSinbad]

Having never flown the T-28C Trojan but having heard / read comments about them I do not believe it was an underpowered aircraft. Bear in mind the diagrams are just that and probably not an actual circuit laid out exactly to scale; however carrier circuits are tight relative to the aircraft being used. For example early A4G carrier/MADDL/FCLP circuits (daytime only) were not done at NATOPS circuit height of 600 feet but at the old/bold Sea Venom height of 400 feet. My early circuits around MELBOURNE were at 400 feet in the A4G and that was tight indeed but rewarding because the mirror could be flown from about half way around a level base turn, whilst the straightaway could be shorter. However the two first A4G LSOs eventually convinced our CO that circuits should be at NATOPS height which meant a descending base turn - more difficult to manage rather than a level base turn to pick up the ball in the mirror etc. whilst the groove length was longer allowing more errors to creep.

Night Carrier Circuit Practice / Work Ups MADDLS Mirror Assisted Dummy Deck Landings at NAS Nowra were done on the airfield with all lights out including base & married quarters with only some portable limpet lights on the left side of runway (usually 26 with downdraught) marking out the carrier deck using the portable mirror with LSOs grading. Circuit height was 1400 feet (1000 AGL) because NIGHT and we did not turn downwind after a touch and go lower than circuit height but an A4G at Max Carrier Landing Weight or below was a rocket so no biggie. However the descending base turn meant we were longer in the groove from the extra height. Night Carrier Landings were done from a straight in approach via CCA (Carrier GCA) because we had no other appropriate avionics to use.

I recall very few runners to the sight boards at the CHOOK and I think those were the early RAAFies doing their introduction to it all (before Navy/ARMY arrived). Yes the grass parallel runways were usually always in use. I landed dual once on a taxiway in the strong winds - we were not allowed to do that solo IIRC. Lost an instructor and an ARMY student when the right wing folded during a low level steep turn over on the Bellarine Peninsula Low Flying area. I'd have to look up the names. I do not recall anyone ground looping from an unlocked tailwheel whilst there but the HORROR stories.... :-)

"...Winjeel A85-416 CA25-16 Crashed 05/03/68, Port Arlington VIC.
The RAAF instructor Flight Lieutenant W. Clarke and Army trainee pilot 2nd Lieutenant J. Mayhew were killed when low flying in strong wind conditions. The starboard wing failed under G loading, either due to the severe turbulence from strong winds at low level or the result of a low level rolling pullup that exceeded the structural G limits." http://www.adf-serials.com/2a85.htm

No.67 Course upon arriving at Point CHOOK photos here: http://www.radschool.org.au/Course%20Photos/Pilots/67Pilots.htm

Pilot Course NAME List: http://www.radschool.org.au/Course%20Photos/Pilots/Pilot%20Names.pdf (3Mb)

I can remember 'the ARMY Mayhew' but cannot find a photo for him or the Pilot Course he was on. There was an 'RAAF Mayhew' on No.63 course but not him.

Had a discussion about the details on the ADFserials Forum (I'm LUIG - my last RAN nickname as in "Ah Luig" "Geez Luig" (wot have you done today - badly?) :-)

http://www.adf-messageboard.com.au/invboard/index.php?showtopic=1050&hl=mayhew

03.05.68 {US Date format} Flight Lieutenant W. Clarke Bellarine Peninsula, VIC Winjeel crashed during a training sortie

03.05.68 2nd Lieutenant J. Mayhew Bellarine Peninsula, VIC Winjeel crashed during a training sortie

http://www.ispa.asn.au/inmemoryof.html

Murray Smythe tells me there were no ARMY studs on No.68 course - I think 'Barry' Mayhew was a late addition to our No.67 course? (or perhaps No.69?) but because 'ARMY' officer in Occifer Mess us blogs did not see much of the occifers. :-)

[SpazSinbad]

Two Short Clips about T-28C Trojan Carrier Circuits (some repetition).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4PX_8th6-M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAsFlIQ-fxE

[megan]

VERY underpowered aircraftFlew the 28C off the Lex. Weight about 8,000lb and 1,425HP, underpowered it was not. Instructors used to win beers by betting USAF F-4 jocks passing through that they could beat them from brakes off to 10,000. Don't know the veracity, but instructors who had shares in a P-51 said it outperformed the 51 except in flat chat level speed. As it was built by the same maker (North American) could expect some similarities I guess. Rate of roll had to be reduced to a standard suitable for trainees it was said.

[Ascend Charlie]

Us Huey drivers at Willy SAR Flight had a bet with the Mirage drivers that we could beat them to 2000'.

From a standing start, outside the aircraft, shut down.

Nobody challenged us. Pack of wimps.

[SpazSinbad]

Thanks for pics 'megan' - I had purloined them earlier from your OLD GETtoGether cache and they have pride of place in the 4.4GiggleBite PDF in the early pages about those having trained in the USofA circa/circus mid to late 1960s. :}
“...RAN trainee pilots flew the T28C Trojan to the Lexington when in basic training (Squadron VT-5), as did those that did their S2 Tracker training with the USN. ‘Qualification’ required a minimum of four acceptable arrests, usually with a touch-and-go first. Takeoff in the T28 was ‘free deck’ (catapult not used), and I remember it was quite unnerving to see 30 or 40 knots on the ASI as you went off the bow. The date was 6th July 1967, and the aircraft BuWeps number was 140610.

(For your readers, the ‘Charlie’ model was equipped with a tail hook and reduced diameter propeller and so could operate from carriers. The other T28 flown was the ‘Bravo’ model with no hook and larger diameter prop).

Of interest is the deck. As an old WW2 era carrier which originally operated all prop aircraft, the flight deck had a layer of wooden blocks (akin to cobblestones) on it. The reason was that a "prop strike" on wood did less damage to the prop/engine than steel. There was also less chance of major steel-on-steel sparking during a strike, plus repairs to the deck meant just changing the damaged blocks. Prop strikes were the reason for the reduced diameter prop on the T28C....” John ‘Bomber’ Brown [Iroquois RANFAA contingent No.9 Sqdn RAAF Vietnam then Wessex then Helo Instructor BritLand] ‘Slipstream’ FAAA magazine 2002, Vol.13 No.4

So 'Ascend Charlie' I imagine you know (at least some of) the RAAF Iroquois jocks in No.67 course? We lost two in a 'mast bump' near Canberra episode in 1969 (I'll have to check). Bob Redmond went on to be a Helo Test Pilot AFAIK.
"Iroquois A2-386 UH-1B 62-4608 386 ...Crashed 02/04/69, Captains Flat NSW. Main rotor separated in mid-flight and crashed at Captain's Flat, NSW. Crew; PLTOFF E. Collett, (Pilot) & FLGOFF I. McLean. This was 2 months after the crash of A2-719 in similar circumstances. http://www.adf-serials.com.au/3a2.htm

[Ascend Charlie]

KNOW them???

I've f****ed them!

[SpazSinbad]

That is helpful.

[SpazSinbad]

Latest edition of [RAN] Navy News 5th October 2017 page 17 has the reunion story:

Defence Newspapers | Navy News (http://navynews.realviewdigital.com/#folio=16)

http://www.defence.gov.au/Publications/NewsPapers/Navy/editions/6018/6018.pdf (6Mb)

PDF attached - same as the GIF