Return of the Ponzi [Archive]

AlanPardew

16th Dec 2016, 13:48

There's good news for those who 'invested' their hard earned loans in the last Ponzi scheme; the guy who ran it, Sydney Lemos, is back with a new one, so shouldn't be too hard to track down if you want to have some choice words with him.

Interested to see how many more waste their money this time round.

http://m.gulfnews.com/xpress/news/alert-dodgy-forex-firm-lures-uae-investors-1.1945166?utm_medium=socialbar&utm_source=mobilesite&utm_campaign=whatsapp

Alan

DCS99

16th Dec 2016, 15:43

Econ101

23rd Dec 2016, 14:21

Thanks Alan!

Better to nip these Ponzi's in the butt - name and shame, before they have a chance to affect our community again.

You have to be crazy to even consider gambling with these Forex Ponzi scams.

Here is the article in case you missed it:

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Alert: Dodgy forex firm lures UAE investors

Dubai company, shut down by authorities after its Ponzi-like investment scheme wrecks nearly 7,000 lives, is back in a new avatar

http://static.gulfnews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1945162!/image/2810285731.jpg_gen/derivatives/box_620347/2810285731.jpg

DUBAI: The man who disguised a $300 million (Dh1.1 billion) Ponzi scheme as a sophisticated foreign exchange trading programme to dupe thousands of investors in the UAE, is readying for yet another con job, an XPRESS investigation can reveal.

Dubai-based Indian Sydney Lemos, 36, is facing a string of court cases after his Exential Group left a trail of financial devastation and heartbreak in what is being billed as the most brazen scam to have hit the country in recent years. Exential’s 7,000-odd victims are mostly from aviation and oil and gas sectors. Each investor forked out a minimum of $25,000 per (Dh91,500) forex account after being promised annual profits of up to 120 per cent.

Buoyed by the incredible monthly returns, hundreds doubled and tripled their investments by taking huge bank loans.

http://gulfnews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1945173.1481716232!/image/1528044221.jpg

Like any other outwardly viable but untenable model, the money-making scheme looked good till it lasted, which, in this case, was a little over five years. Everybody was happy while they were getting the promised money at the end of the month. But when the music stopped playing, investors hit the panic button.

Scores lodged complaints with the Dubai Economic Department (DED) which eventually shut down Exential’s Media City Office in July this year.
The total number of forex accounts held by Exential is estimated to be around 18,000. Multiple account holders include a senior executive at an oil and gas company who reportedly has 700 accounts of $25,000 each and a former vice-president of an aluminium company who has about 350.

Their entire life’s earnings stuck in a quagmire of deceit, many are now being hounded by banks and staring at an uncertain future.
“My life is ruined. I have become a psychological wreck since Exential stopped paying me,” said Filipina cabin crew R.S. who borrowed Dh150,000 to invest in the firm after hearing about it from colleagues.

An Arab businessman who dug into funds kept aside for his son’s college fee said he doesn’t know how he could make up for the shortfall while an Indian engineer claimed he needed the money back for a medical emergency. More horror stories abound on various online forums set up by investors to air their grievances.

New firm

Even as the court cases against him are being heard, the Exential boss is peddling dubious forex investments all over again.
This time he is using a company called Pinnacle Asset & Investment Management as a front to snare unsuspecting residents.

The domain name of Pinnacle’s website is registered by Exential’s managing director himself and the cellphone number listed on its trade licence is the same as that of Exential Mideast Commercial Brokers.

To give the sham a semblance of credibility, renowned forex educator Mario Singh has been listed as the executive director on Pinnacle’s website – a claim denied by Singh.
“I am not on the board of directors of Pinnacle Asset and Investment Management LLC. The reason I am mentioned on their website is because I have been advising the company in the past,” Singh stated in an email statement to XPRESS from India.
“I have no association with the Exential Group. I have visited Dubai to promote myself and my academy, and not for or on behalf of the Exential Group,” said Singh, referring to an event hosted by him at a five-star hotel in Dubai some time ago.

Curiously, Pinnacle’s purported 42nd floor office in Dubai’s Emirates Towers belongs to Servcorp that sells serviced office space, virtual office products and IT services. “Pinnacle had a virtual desk, but that was several months ago. I don’t know where they are now,” said a staff when XPRESS visited the place recently.

Sydney Lemos, who is also the main sponsor of a football club in India, could not be contacted despite several attempts while emails sent to him remain unanswered even as a lawyer representing 45 investors of various nationalities said he’s hopeful of getting justice for his clients.
“We have filed several cases against Exential. The matter is under investigation and we are optimistic of the results,” said Hany Elsaid of Dubai-based Abdul Rahman Naseeb Advocates and Legal Consultants.

Private detectives from UK
Nearly 250 other investors have hired private detectives from the UK to help to recover their funds from Exential’s parent company FCI Markets Ltd, based in the British Virgin Islands.

Experts from Carlton Huxley which specialises in fraud investigations were in Dubai recently to meet victims and chalk out a strategy.
Loosely modelled after the fraudulent MMA Forex exposed by XPRESS in 2013, Exential also ended up the same way.

“This is what typically happens with Ponzi-like investment schemes. They use the money of new investors to pay the earlier ones. But when the cycle of fund inflow gets disrupted, the whole thing falls apart,” said a financial analyst familiar with such cases.

Exential’s staff, however, said they had no inkling of the impending doom.
“Until last year business was roaring good. So much so that we would enrol up to a thousand clients every month. “At $25,000 per account that was a neat Dh25 million in the kitty. There were times when I could make up to Dh45,000 in monthly commissions on top of our Dh8,000 salary,” a former relationship manager said on conditions of anonymity.

Another staff said they were inundated with queries all day. “Around this time last year people would flock to our Arenco Tower office to invest money. Today, they hang around in the hope of getting it back.”

What our investigation found
The domain name of Pinnacle’s website is registered by Exential’s managing director himself and the cellphone numbers listed on its trade licence is the same as that of Exential Mideast Commercial Brokers and its sister concerns.

YouSpeak
Have you lost money in a dubious scheme? Tell us your story.
Write to us at:
[email protected]
Whatsapp: 056 508 9988

Source: Alert: Dodgy forex firm lures UAE investors | GulfNews.com (http://gulfnews.com/xpress/news/alert-dodgy-forex-firm-lures-uae-investors-1.1945166)

Talparc

23rd Dec 2016, 16:12

maybe we should report former EPI as well?

Global_Global

24th Dec 2016, 17:24

Where do I sign up? I heard from some CC that it is a very sound investment and they should know :)

777boyindubai

2nd Jan 2017, 16:48

http://m.thenational.ae/uae/boss-of-foreign-currency-scheme-in-dubai-arrested

Let us hope young Sid enjoys his stay at The Hilton....

Econ101

5th Jan 2017, 10:10

http://expatmedia.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/handcuffs-350x197.jpg

Dubai businessman arrested for Dh1.1 billion ponzi scheme
Amira Agarib (http://www.khaleejtimes.com/section/search&facet.filter=Byline:Amira%20Agarib) /Dubai, Khaleej Times.

The businessman was arrested on December 21.

The Dubai police confirmed the arrest of an Asian businessman who allegedly embezzled Dh 1.1 billion from 7000 people who had invested their money in his company Exential Group. Most victims work in the aviation, oil and gas sectors and on an average invested Dh 125,000. Exential had approximately 18,000 forex accounts.

The deputy director of Al Barsha police station, Major Majed Al Swaidi, said that the businessman was arrested on December 21, referred to the Dubai Public Prosecutor and then released on bail. He cannot leave the country without repaying the money.

Al Swaidi said that many people lodged complaints at Al Barsha police station after the company was shut down by the Dubai Economic department last July as it didn't have a license. The complainants at Al Barsha police station have lost Dh 50 million.

Most victims of the scam said that their lives have been destroyed because they deposited most of their money. They said that they were enticed by the prospect of making profits in the range of 100-150%. They convinced their friends and family to invest in the company. The scammer soon stopped making payments.

Source: Dubai businessman arrested for Dh1.1 billion ponzi scheme - Khaleej Times (http://www.khaleejtimes.com/news/crime/businessman-who-ran-ponzi-scheme-arrested)

http://images.performgroup.com/di/library/Goal_India/65/0/sydney-lemos-zico-fc-goa-owners_ni9etdmmj9os1ajujfrce5au9.jpg?t=1654860081&w=620&h=430

Dubai: The Indian owner of a Dubai-based foreign exchange trading firm who had promised to double investors’ money has been arrested in the emirate for suspected fraud, a newspaper reported Tuesday.

Sydney Lemos, 36, from Goa, had been arrested on 21 December, The National reported, saying he was behind the failed investment scheme worth 50 million dirhams ($13.6 million).

His firm, Exential Group, was closed by Dubai authorities in July, the daily said, adding that clients lost millions of dirhams when the group failed to pay out after promising the 100% return on their investments.
Source: Indian businessman Sydney Lemos arrested for fraud in Dubai - Livemint (http://www.livemint.com/Politics/HS2LrPFd9cLGsZ64SfdRMN/Indian-businessman-Sydney-Lemos-arrested-for-fraud-in-Dubai.html)

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Lets hope the investigation widens to include those actively encouraging others to join up, knowing full well it was a Ponzi.

If the company is unable to pay up, there is talk that lawyers are considering claw-back proceedings to recoup any money the early joiners gained from this illegal scheme ie. Illegally obtained gains.

Passport copies of all investors and the amount of money they received are believed to be on file in the offices.

Legally, the Ponzi scheme’s winners – i.e., those who withdrew more money than they deposited – can be compelled to return their fictitious profits to help defray the losses to the scheme’s losers. They are required to do so even if they did not know, and had no reason to know, that theirs was not a legitimate investment.

This is called a "clawback" which allows victims to seek the return of funds distributed to investors, even from those who were fortunate enough to have turned a profit or redeemed their investments before the schemes unraveled.

Many cases have won in court, whereas “net winners” are required to pay back past withdrawals to be redistributed to the larger pool of victims.

The chances of getting some money back are greatly increased when the names of complicit individuals are identified. Direct legal action can be taken against those who promoted, or enjoyed commissions from bringing in new clients.

The complicit members of a Ponzi scheme are known as "Promoters": the majority are aware the scheme is fraudulent, but they do their utmost to ensure the scheme stays alive as long as possible to maximise their profit.

Those who knew this was not legit and anxiously waited for 12 months to pass as to recoup their initial "investment", might just have many more sleepless nights ahead.

Kobus Dune

5th Jan 2017, 14:09

and then released on bail.

So he has not been arrested

Those who knew this was not legit and anxiously waited for 12 months to pass as to recoup their initial "investment", might just have many more sleepless nights ahead

So funny ! I cannot wait for the next chapter of that fascinating story. Maybe for some it's still time to run away from the country ?

Wizofoz

5th Jan 2017, 21:19

So he has not been arrested

Yes, he was arrested- bail is something you get AFTER being arrested.

harry the cod

13th Jan 2017, 18:47

...and I'd hazard a guess that the bail amount is a tad more than the profit share we'll get this year!

Harry

HEMS driver

13th Jan 2017, 18:49

There is a sucker born every minute.

Econ101

22nd Jan 2017, 12:13

Why do people fall for bogus schemes?

If you have the nerve to invest your hard-earned money in get-rich-quick schemes, then you ought to have the nerve to face the shattering consequences

Published: 01:00 January 22, 2017 Gulf News
By Mazhar Farooqui, Editor, XPRESS

Dubai: If a money-making opportunity looks too good to be true, it probably is. Tens of thousands of UAE residents have learned this the hard way after losing their life savings in investment plans only to discover that these were outright Ponzi schemes. Yet such is the lure of easy money, that every few days many still get sucked into their swirling vortex of deceit.

Nearly 6,000 residents lost their money in Sunfeast Infotech, 4,000 in SpeakAsia, 1,500 in MMA Forex, 2,000 in Gold AE, 40 in Ferryland Tourism and more recently 5,000 in UT Markets and 7,000 in Exential Group.

That’s around 25,000 people duped out of roughly Dh2.5 billion in just a little over three years – Dh100,000 per person on an average.

Tip of the iceberg

http://gulfnews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1965515.1485007356!/image/2635133940.jpg

Mindboggling as it sounds, this could just be the tip of the iceberg, according to Gaurang Desai, Chief Executive Officer of the Dubai Gold and Commodities Exchange (DGCX) owned by the Dubai government and regulated by the Emirates Securities and Commodities Authority (ESCA).

The derivatives marketing specialist reckons there could be 150 such fly-by-night companies in the UAE peddling get-rich quick schemes by offering annual returns of up to 120 per cent.

Sam Instone, CEO of Dubai-based financial advisers AES International says the number could be as high as 1,000.
“A financial regulator recently told me they suspect there are more than 1,000 boiler rooms [unlicensed financial people/firms]. Some of these are large, legitimate looking businesses,” he said.
“The tough economic climate and the slump in savings and stocks make the perfect scenario for these thugs,” said another financial adviser.

However, like any other outwardly viable but untenable model, the Ponzi schemes look good till they last, which in most cases has rarely been beyond six years.

Sure enough, when they inevitably fall apart, they cause the equivalent of a financial apocalypse. A staggering 7,000 alone have been hit by the $300 million Exential scam.

Numbers tell half the story

But statistics are just numbers. They don’t quite show the fallout of a reckless investment and what victims go through in the aftermath of a Ponzi scam.

Understandably so as they are unable to capture the plight of the affected. Dubai-based nurse Joanne Juantas (left) lost her brother John Paul Juantas, 31, last Sunday as his money (Dh460,000) was stuck in Exential and he couldn’t pay for his cancer treatment. A Dubai father who works for a reputed airline, but often goes without food. And a Jordanian mother in Sharjah has been dumped by her husband and now fears losing the custody of her children as she can’t afford to pay their school fees.

The airline staffer invested $80,000 in Exential after taking a bank loan while the Jordanian mum sold her ancestral land to fork out $175,000.
“That’s all I had. My husband got so annoyed that he left me. My kids are on the verge of dropping out of school and my husband wants their custody saying I cannot look after them. My life has become a mess,” she said in a voice choked with emotion.

The airline staffer said his entire salary goes towards paying off his loan. “At times, I’ve no money for even food. I don’t want to cheat any bank or run away. I would rather go to jail but I dread to think about the fate of my school-going daughter should that happen,” he said.
Dubai-based Syrian hairstylist Rafi Zazza (left) who borrowed from relatives to open seven forex accounts of $25,000 each with the firm said he doesn’t know how to face them.

Then there are people like Elrina van Graan, who’s unable to pursue the case as she’s based out of the country. “I live in South Africa and don’t know how to lodge a complaint,” she said, sharing documents that show that Exential owes her over $35,000.

Last week, the dodgy firm’s Indian owner, S.L, 36, who was out on bail, was reportedly re-arrested by Al Barsha police in connection with the fraud.
A majority of his victims are from the aviation industry, but it’s people from the oil and gas sector who have taken the biggest hits, like a senior executive at an oil and gas company who reportedly has around 650 accounts of $25,000 each..

Infallible trap

So what is that causes well-educated people to fall into the infallible trap of Ponzi schemes?

“Pramod Bothra, director, Evermore Global DMCC. puts it in one word – Greed. “Ponzi schemes feed on greed. People are so blinded by the seemingly incredible returns that they seldom pause to think how they could possibly earn 10-12 per cent monthly on their investments. No business offers that kind of money,” he said.

Stupidity also plays an important if not equal part. At Sunfeast Infotech, for instance, investors looking to make extra bucks from ‘outsourced projects’ were handed a flash drive with several pages of manuscript in PDF format which they were required to type into text format and submit within 25 days.

At the end of a 30-day cycle, they were paid Dh250 for the job. They had to pay a security deposit of Dh500 for each project. In theory, they got their initial investment in two months; any extra job after that was profit.

Enticed by big returns, thousands used to queue up at Sunfeast’s Oud Metha office during 2013 with many taking huge loans to procure hundreds of ‘projects’ at the same time.

When that was not enough, scores sold their jewellery and homes. One enterprising man even set up a temporary typing centre at his home in India where young students were hired to do the job.

No background checks

Nobody bothered to find out how anyone could make a fortune out of typing a few sheets of paper. By the time the company was shut down by the Dubai Economic Department (DED) and its owners jailed for fraud, millions had been siphoned off.

Another company, MMA Forex, conned investors into believing they were dealing with a multinational firm with a diversified portfolio that included an airline in Ras Al Khaimah. As it turned out, the whole thing was a sham. MMA Forex owner CEO Malik Noureed Awan was later arrested and sentenced to jail.

Company ran on WhatsApp

The UT Markets scam which happened around the same time as Exential is even more shocking. The company was based out of Bulgaria and managed its operations in the UAE entirely on WhatsApp.

Yet nearly 4,000 UAE residents, largely cabin crew, gave away their hard-earned money to them without a second thought.
“They claimed they were investing our funds in foreign exchange through a trading software. At 13 per cent per month, the returns were too good to be true, and too good to be missed, recalls Indian expat A.K.
“I invested $10,000 in January 2016. Encouraged by initial profits, I took a bank loan and pitched in with another $60,000 in July last year. Now it’s all stuck and I am saddled with a big loan,” said the 41-year-old, who also got his fingers burnt at Exential.

Like most victims, AK has resigned himself to fate after calls made to UT Markets’ Bulgaria office and their relationship managers remain unanswered and a letter from the country’s Financial Supervision Commission (FSC) showed the company was not licensed.

Can victims get their money?

Instances of Ponzi victims recovering their money are few and far between.

The only time a restitution effort has been successful in recent years was in the case of American fraudster Bernard Madoff, who was sentenced to 150 years in prison by US courts in 2009 for running the biggest Ponzi scheme in history.

While this may spring hope among many in the UAE, finding the money and dividing it fairly among victims remains a tricky proposition.
“Restitution is a complicated process,” said Hany Al Saeed (left) of Abdul Rahman Naseeb Associates and Legal Consultants, who represents 80 Exential victims. “We’re taking legal action not just against Exential but also its sister concerns as they were also part of the agreement signed by investors. Once we get a favourable verdict, we will pursue the matter internationally as a large amount of the money could be stashed away in foreign banks,” he added.

An executive who lost Dh200,000 said that no matter how much is recovered, his life can never be back on track.

What you can do to avoid investment scams

Before you are able to spot the telltale signs of a Ponzi scheme, it’s important that you understand what the fraud is all about. Named after notorious US-scamster Charles Ponzi, the scheme functions by paying off new investors with money from old ones. This is precisely what happened at Exential, UTMarkets, MMA, Sunfeast and several other dodgy companies.
NAT Sam Instone Colour“If anyone is considering investing in a scheme that they’ve been advised or even promised will give them very high returns -- it’s probably best to avoid it because it may well be a scam,” warns Sam Instone (left), CEO, AES International.

Dubai-based professional trader and coach Sara Waqar (right). “People should be wary of schemes which guarantee exorbitant returns over a monthly time period and come with the assurance that their principal amount will remain safe. ”While robust forex strategies may produce well over 10 per cent in some months, there is always an element of risk,” she says.

“The best way to avoid such scams is to invest in quality forex education. You should also due diligence and listen to your gut feeling before you commit your hard-earned money to a financial scheme. A rule of thumb of the financial market is: What seems too good to be true, is never true. There is no other interpretation of this evergreen cliche.”

According to Instone, people should take financial advice from a qualified professional rather than someone who cold calls them. “Prevention is better than cure,” says Gaurang Desai (left), CEO of the Dubai Gold and Commodities Exchange (DGCX). “Investors should go through registered intermediaries and make sure that the company they are dealing with is registered with exchange houses like DGCX which is regulated by federal authorities,” he says.

Instone said his advice to investors would be to buy Andrew Hallam’s book The Global Expatriate’s Guide to Investing and choose how to invest from there. It has a list of all the best investment venues for a range of different nationalities and its wisdom can massively positively impact the investment outcomes people experience. If people don’t want or don’t have time to read it they can find a fee-based independent financial planner who should tell them this. And yes, make sure the business is licensed. Don’t sign a contract without reading it and keep on checking things!

Verifying the credentials of promoters can save you a lot of time, money and heartache,” says Pramod Bothra, director, Evermore Global DMCC.

Source: Why do people fall for bogus schemes? | GulfNews.com (http://gulfnews.com/news/uae/crime/why-do-people-fall-for-bogus-schemes-1.1965342)

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Lets hope the investigation widens to include those actively encouraging others to join up, knowing full well it was a Ponzi.

If the company is unable to pay up, there is talk that lawyers are considering claw-back proceedings to recoup any money the early joiners gained from this illegal scheme ie. Illegally obtained gains.

Passport copies of all investors and the amount of money they received are believed to be on file in the offices.

Legally, the Ponzi scheme’s winners – i.e., those who withdrew more money than they deposited – can be compelled to return their fictitious profits to help defray the losses to the scheme’s losers. They are required to do so even if they did not know, and had no reason to know, that theirs was not a legitimate investment.

This is called a "clawback" which allows victims to seek the return of funds distributed to investors, even from those who were fortunate enough to have turned a profit or redeemed their investments before the schemes unraveled.

Many cases have won in court, whereas “net winners” are required to pay back past withdrawals to be redistributed to the larger pool of victims.

The chances of getting some money back are greatly increased when the names of complicit individuals are identified. Direct legal action can be taken against those who promoted, or enjoyed commissions from bringing in new clients.

The complicit members of a Ponzi scheme are known as "Promoters": the majority are aware the scheme is fraudulent, but they do their utmost to ensure the scheme stays alive as long as possible to maximise their profit.

Those who knew this was not legit and anxiously waited for 12 months to pass as to recoup their initial "investment", might just have many more sleepless nights ahead.

Econ101

24th Jan 2017, 23:14

Next Chapter unfolding. EK now involved:

Forex scheme chief is arrested again

http://www.thenational.ae/storyimage/AB/20170124/ARTICLE/170129547/AR/0/&NCS_modified=20170124162817&MaxW=640&imageVersion=default&AR-170129547.jpg

Nick Webster (http://www.thenational.ae/authors/nick-webster)
Follow @NickWebsterADM (https://twitter.com/NickWebsterADM)
January 24, 2017

DUBAI // As the man behind a Dh50 million foreign exchange scheme that promised to double investors’ money is arrested for a second time, investigators are now turning their attention to a second forex fraud believed to have snared thousands of Emirates crew.

Sydney Lemos, who investors claim was the protagonist in the Exential operation run from Media City, has been rearrested and is in police custody, according to lawyers.

He is accused of leading a team of sellers promising 120 per cent returns on US$20,000 accounts invested in foreign currencies. The bogus Exential trading scheme was shut down by the Economic Development Department last year.

Private investigators at UK firm Carlton Huxley, who are working on behalf of 30 clients - most of whom Emirates cabin crew - claim a second fund offering similar returns could have more victims.

UTMarkets is a UK-run website with offices in Bulgaria offering investors the chance to trade Forex and other commodities.

"Our lead investigators have established that some people involved in Exential may also be connected with UTMarkets," said John Rynne, a director of Carlton Huxley.

"Carlton Huxley has been retained by a number of clients to look into the conduct of those involved in UTMarkets.

"We are working with the Bulgarian law firm New Balkan Law Office along with authorities in the UK and Bulgaria."

The UTMarkets website makes similar profit promises to those of Exential, which left thousands devastated by debt.

The site, which remains active, offers an "unparalleled mix of forex and commodities brokerage services that’s easy to use and completely secure".

Fraud investigators said the UTMarkets scheme developed quickly through recommendations among airline workers in late 2015 and early last year as Exential started to collapse.

"We have grounds to believe there are about 6,000 UTMarkets victims, 95 per cent of whom work for Emirates airline," said one of the UK investigators, who has visited Dubai several times to interview account holders of both schemes.

"We are keeping the legal department of Emirates informed and have identified people who appear to have been actively involved with Exential who are also involved in UTMarkets."

Several UTMarkets account managers were approached for comment, but none responded.

Asif, an Emirates ground crew employee from India who has been in Dubai for 11 years, borrowed about Dh110,000 to invest in UTMarkets in January 2016. He earns Dh15,000 a month.

He was paid about Dh7,000 a month for five months, but was encouraged to reinvest most of that by relationship managers working from an office in Sofia, Bulgaria.

"I had heard of Exential for years, but had not invested," he said.

"I was hoping to plan for my future with my wife, and heard Exential account holders were having problems, so invested with UTMarkets instead. They were offering almost twice as much in monthly returns.

"My friends and colleagues at Emirates persuaded me that UTMarkets was a better investment."

He claims many who lost out through Exential ploughed more money from loans and credit cards into the UTMarkets funds in an attempt to recover their initial deposits.

Asif, who took no financial advice before handing over the cash, said he is owed about Dh84,500 from UTMarkets and was kept informed by his relationship managers via a What’sApp group that is no longer posting.

"One of my friends has invested $30,000, another $50,000," he said.

"There are a lot of people in Dubai with big financial commitments to this. The conversation with UTMarkets stopped when they stopped paying out each month. The account managers have all now disappeared. It’s hard to know if the trading information they were giving us was real, or fake."

Carlton Huxley is planning a series of free to attend educational seminars later this year in Dubai to warn about the dangers of investing in similar schemes.

[email protected]

Source: Forex scheme chief is arrested again | The National (http://www.thenational.ae/uae/courts/forex-scheme-chief-is-arrested-again)

nolimitholdem

25th Jan 2017, 06:19

Ahhhh. I read this and recall fondly the many chats in the forward galley with FA's who, with complete self-assurance, informed me of their wisdom and my foolishness in trying to warn them away from such obvious, blatant nonsense.

"We have grounds to believe there are about 6,000 UTMarkets victims, 95 per cent of whom work for Emirates airline,"

I shed not one tear. Experience was offered for free, and refused. Now you can pay for it instead. :D

harry the cod

25th Jan 2017, 21:19

Quote;

" It's hard to know if the trading information they were giving us was real, or fake".

Mmm....let those with even half a brain think about that for a minute. The firm is being investigated by a UK law firm, UTMarkets were promising double what the previous scheme couldn't deliver, the relationship manager has stopped posting on 'What's app' and now, all the account managers have disappeared. I'm not a betting man, but if I was to hazard a guess.....

Harry

motojet

1st Feb 2017, 11:55

More from the Ponzi scheme;

Published: 21:00 January 31, 2017 Gulf News
Mazhar Farooqui, Editor Xpress

Dubai: Valany Cardozo Lemos, wife of the owner of dubious forex investment firm Exential, has made a desperate appeal urging clients to give her husband Sydney Lemos “one last chance” and “stop wasting money on lawyers” by filing court cases against him.
Nearly 7,000 UAE residents, mostly working in the aviation and oil and gas sectors, lost their life’s savings in the scam. Hundreds have moved court.
The company’s Dubai Media City office was shut down by authorities in July 2016. Sydney Lemos, 36, from Goa, India, was arrested in December 2016 for running a Dh1.1 billion Ponzi scheme in the guise of a foreign currency exchange investment programme. He was released on bail, but taken into custody a second time in mid-January. He has been in jail since.

His Exential Group promised up to 120 per cent annual returns on investments, but when payments dried up, many investors complained following which the firm’s Dubai Media City office was shut down by the Department of Economic Development in Dubai (DED) in July 2016.
In a six-minute long audio message WhatsApped to clients on Sunday from India, a woman claiming to be Valany said: “the only person who could return their money is Sydney”, who is currently in the custody of Dubai Police at Al Barsha police station.
“Putting civil cases is not helping anyone... he [Sydney] has given a statement to the authorities that he is ready to help and will return everyone’s money. So why do you need lawyers, why do you need investigators? Let them stop ripping you off. I don’t want to see you all losing more money... even the lawyer... everyone is at the mercy of Sydney. So why are you taking the long cut [route] when you have the short cut to get your money back?” Valany said.
Gulf News cannot independently verify the identity of the speaker in the audio message, although those associated with Valany said it’s indeed her voice.
Valany said her main concern was to get her husband out of prison.
“He wants to get his respect back and he can do that only after he returns everyone’s money which he is capable of.”
She said her husband never intended to cheat anyone and could have run away from the country if he wanted as his passport was with him till recently.
She claimed that Sydney had been trying “very hard” to sort out things.
“A man like him who has run the business for almost six years wouldn’t want it to just go in vain. He is capable of returning everyone’s money, but he needs a little bit of understanding and a little bit of patience. I know some of you might say ‘Oh, how much more patience?’, but he is human. He has earned [profits for] so many accounts for five years. He has been transferring more than Dh50 million per month to clients as profits. If he was a cheat he would have put all of that in his pocket by just declaring small profits, but he didn’t do that.
“He is here, he is not going to run away. We just need some understanding and some cooperation from all of you.”
However, investors are far from convinced.
“This is just a ploy to stop people from filing cases against the company,” said Dubai-based Syrian hairstylist Rafi Zazza, who lost Dh640,000 which he had borrowed from relatives.
“I find it very upsetting because the message makes no mention of where they have kept all the money.”
An Abu-based Indian executive who has filed a civil case to recover investments worth $100,000 termed the message as emotional blackmail.
“We are not at the mercy of Sydney as his wife would want us to believe. It’s the other way round,” said the man who had four accounts of $25,000 each in the company.

http://gulfnews.com/news/uae/crime/exential-owner-s-wife-you-are-at-my-jailed-husband-s-mercy-1.1970914

g109

1st Feb 2017, 12:49

I said it before and I will say it again:
Anyone who was stupid and naive enough to invest money in what was an obvious Ponzi scheme deserves to loose their cash.
And don't believe his desperate Indian wife, she clearly denies it was a scam, and is only interested in getting her husband out of jail, not returning your money.

Kamelchaser

1st Feb 2017, 14:30

Had the pleasure (not) of flying with an FG1 who proudly told me she'd made "so much money from this scheme" after being in it from the early days.

When I pressed her on the whole subject of ponzi schemes, she admitted she'd never heard of Bernie Maddof, never suspected this was a scam, still didn't believe it was a scam ("I left $100,000 in the scheme"...haha..."left"?....try "lost" you stupid fool).

When I asked her how she slept at night knowing the money in her bank account came from the life savings of her colleagues..and possibly from people who'd since committed suicide..she was adamant she felt no guilt.

She also supported Donald Trump (when I asked her what Trump had done in the past 7days since taking over as president, she had no idea.."I'm too busy to read about that")

She also is a climate change denier, and a general ignorant idiot.

Everything I despise in people.

When I told her that, she stormed off in a huff and slammed the flight deck door on the way out.

Needless to say, she didn't get to handle my food for the rest of the flight.

I sincerely hope she keeps bragging about her profits to other crew, until someone affected gives her a good thrashing.

What a stupid woman.

And what's she still doing at EK anyway if she made so much money?

Dropp the Pilot

1st Feb 2017, 14:36

And what's he still doing at EK anyway if he made so much money?

That's what I used to ask BC when he urged me to "invest" with him....

TangoUniform

1st Feb 2017, 17:36

Kamel, I gotta say, who is more "stupid"? Her, in her beliefs? Or you, trying to change anyone's opinion in a work place environment? Time and place for everything. Maybe I shouldn't say stupid but rather, ill advised or perhaps obtuse?

If she came up bragging about her returns or whatever, just say, interesting. And how do you get from ponzi schemes to climate change or global warming (whatever the name this week is), Donald Trump's E.O.s, or anything else along those lines? Seems you were trying to put her in her place, to show your superior intellect. That's how I read it from your post. People's beliefs and opinions are formed from their perspective and experiences. Trying to change them to your perspective, which, god forbid, might be off the mark is fruitless and a waste of time. From where I came, that could even be considered work place harassment, given your place in the chain of command.

Just my opinion from my perspective and experience.

Let's see, you called her a stupid fool, general ignorant idiot, everything I despise in people, and gets a good thrashing. NICE.

Econ101

10th Apr 2018, 05:19

Exclusive: Dubai court issues 500-year prison sentences for Exential agents who fleeced cabin crew and church-goers of their life savings
Sydney Lemos and Ryan Fernandez unlikely to be released in strong statement against financial crime in the UAE

Nick Webster
April 9, 2018

Rogue traders in the US$200 million Exential scam in Dubai have been sentenced to more than 500 years each in prison, The National can reveal.

Two of the main people at the centre of the Dh734.6m Ponzi scheme, Sydney Lemos and Ryan Fernandez, were on *Sunday sentenced by a Dubai court to a year in prison for each of more than 500 criminal cases.

The two can appeal but neither is likely to be released because even a huge reduction in their sentence would still result in a life term at Dubai Central Prison in Al Awir.

“This sentence far exceeds the lifetime of a person so it means that even if they do very well in the correctional institution, they are unlikely to ever be released,” said Barney Almazar, head of legal aid at the Philippine Embassy in the UAE, who stepped in to help some of those left penniless.

“It sends a very strong message. Financial crime not only destroys the lives of those who have paid out but often their extended family, too.”

Many investors were left destitute from the collapse of Exential in Media City, when the Department of Economic Development moved in to shut down the operation in 2016.

Lemos and Fernandez were arrested later that year.

Dubai courts were flooded with submissions against the company when word spread that only those filing their own police reports were likely to have any funds returned.

It is unclear if the wider network behind the Exential scam will be brought before criminal courts in the UAE, although global asset freezes are likely to continue.

“The known assets in Dubai would have been the first ones to be seized once the court *order had been executed,” Mr Almazar said.

“There have been two separate cases here, the civil and criminal case, and each is different in nature.

“The criminal case is not just about the victims but the state and society in general. As far as the victims are concerned, of course they want to recover their money.

“What has been proven now is criminal but those who have suffered are still waiting for their money.”

On January 15, courts in the British Virgin Islands approved an application by law firm *Kobre and Kim for a liquidation order against FCI Markets, an offshore brokerage linked to Exential.

A late application by a company director was rejected, allowing liquidators to proceed with an extensive asset recovery.

Evidence was submitted to the Virgin Islands court by investigators employed by UK law firm Carlton Huxley to prove FCI Market’s creditors were owed considerable sums of money that the company was refusing to repay.

The company directors were replaced by court-appointed liquidator Kalo Advisers in the Virgin Islands to demand the disclosure and return of all assets held in its name.

Bill Ferguson, a lead investigator with Carlton Huxley, has spent months tracking down assets owned by Exential and its partner companies, including FCI.

“We are now working to find out who the bad-faith investors were, who knew this was a scam but encouraged others to get involved regardless,” Mr Ferguson told The National.

“Some have made as much as $2.5m (Dh9.1m), so this sentence sends a message that the courts will deliver harsh penalties to those found to be compliant. A friend, an insider or family member may have gone on to recruit other investors in this case.”

Law-enforcement consultants at Carlton Huxley have been liaising with lawyers experienced in Bernard Madoff’s $64.8 billion Ponzi scheme, the largest in history, with almost 5,000 clients.

“We know that, as in the Madoff case, the investors who are collecting funds from those who got in late are sharing in the proceeds of crime,” Mr Ferguson said.

“Those who made money from those at the back end are going to have their property taken away.”

Carlton Huxley has so far managed to recover about $6m.

FCI Markets was an offshore registered broker and sponsored an Indian football club in Goa.

Searches for assets have taken place in the UAE, India, Australia, America, Canada and the British Virgin Islands. About 25 bank accounts have been frozen and emptied.

One of the investors, a Filipino cabin crew member who spent close to Dh50,000 in legal fees and six months in the civil courts pursuing his claim, was awarded a Dh1m judgment by a Dubai court last year.

He is yet to receive any money because court-appointed marshals have yet to recover any assets registered in the names of Exential in the UAE.

“I’ve been told they have no money left in any of their accounts here to repay me or any of the other investors, despite making their judgment that Exential should pay me Dh1m,” the airline worker said.

“Some investors want to get their money back but are not prepared to do anything about it. Others have just given up. I had 10 accounts so it was about Dh700,000 that I was owed in my original deposits and the returns that were promised.

“I’ve had nothing repaid to now, so I don’t want to give *others false hope.”

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: https://www.thenational.ae/uae/exclusive-dubai-court-issues-500-year-prison-sentences-for-exential-agents-who-fleeced-cabin-crew-and-church-goers-of-their-life-savings-1.720147

dubaigong

10th Apr 2018, 06:14

Let's hope that the greedy people ( investors ) thinking that huge return on investments like those advertised on that Exential scheme are possible without being a scam will learn from it ...
I also hope that the early investors , knowing that it was a Ponzi scheme and attracting others to make sure they get a good return before it collapses will be also sentence to jail or at least to pay back the money.

BANANASBANANAS

10th Apr 2018, 07:12

I have very little sympathy for those stupid/greedy enough to 'invest' and who have lost their savings.

I am struggling to make 10% a year in a legitimate investment. Anyone who tells you that you can legally make 10% a month thinks you are stupid. And if you believe them, you are!

But I have especial disgust and contempt for those who set up this illegal scheme and for those who knew it was wrong but still 'invested' and subsequently 'persuaded' their junior colleagues to take out loans to make 'easy money' while sure in the knowledge that they were merely feathering their own nest at their junior colleagues cost.

Disgraceful behaviour all round and I am very pleased at the stern sentences handed down so far. But many more are guilty of supporting this fraud and should be brought to court too.

givemewings

10th Apr 2018, 09:45

"Bad faith investors" huh 🤔

That would definitely include the SFS I once walked in on trying to convince the CSA's to join up. I'd flown with him before and he'd been doing the spiel; he got physically intimidating when I advised the crew to get independent financial advice.

Hope he gets a hefty fine and/or a stint in jail- he admitted he knew it was likely a Ponzi but had 20 accounts to draw from so didn't care

Cantbebothered

10th Apr 2018, 11:01

What a horrible ordeal. Glad there is at least some justice.

FREQUENTFLYER1234

10th Apr 2018, 11:21

Great news.

Now it’s time to start working on all of these other “financial advisors” selling rubbish in the UAE.

I think I managed to talk a colleague out of signing up for one of those 25 year plans the other night. Successful flight!

ironbutt57

10th Apr 2018, 12:38

hmmmm....if it's too good to be true, it probably is....but borrowing money to invest...not in a foreign country with debtor's prison, no sir

Kamelchaser

11th Apr 2018, 02:38

Airbubba

11th Apr 2018, 06:23

Could the EK FO who used to come on to this forum boasting about the profits he was making, and the fancy cars he was buying, and about how this was a genuine scheme and how all the naysayers were so very wrong...could he please come back on here and let us know how he's doing now with everybody's money?
With any luck he's going to prison as well, but I guess that's a bit too much to hope for.

Are you talking about this guy, possibly a shill marketing the scheme to coworkers?

Guys what you forget is this.....everyone has their personal goals, and choices....if people want to put their money and try this....go ahead....it is their call.....whether you are CA or F/O you can not stop them.....and not to mention you should not try either.

You don`t like this ``scam`` then don`t participate....simple.....opinion expression is one thing.....but to tell them NOT to talk about it on board is a different story.

Did you ask yourself the question....what if you are wrong?

I do stock trading on my own, and I was able to make just over $15,000 in 3 days......so I guess I am running a scam too......

You guys need to let people do whatever they want....it is NOT YOUR CALL.

BTW....you telling people to get their money out....if this is a scam.....then things will collapse that much faster on ALL INVOLVED......have you thought about that??? I guess NOT.

Typical CA approach......you want to have your hand in everything and try to fix everything.....:=

Why don`t you start by fixing the rest of the world as well????? While you are at it....you seem to be on a roll.

You guys need to stop controlling people......but I guess as a CA you must love that part of your job.

Once again this is a PERSONAL DECISION and CHOICE every person has to make for themselves.

BTW.....the person that said they are not authorized trader by the UAE CENTRAL BANK....you might want to do your home work a bit better.....I managed to find them on the UAE Central Banks website in less then 5 minutes......:ok:

Just wait and see......

BTW without risk there is no gain.

The original Ponzi scheme warning thread is here, it makes good reading with a couple of the perps now in prison:

https://www.pprune.org/middle-east/563715-ponzi-scheme-targeting-crew-beware-do-not-become-victim.html

pilotguy1222

12th Apr 2018, 07:31

nolimitholdem

12th Apr 2018, 10:32

Oh yeah, cause Bitcoin wasn't a speculative bubble or anything...:rolleyes:

http://i68.tinypic.com/n5ne34.jpg

(Yes, yes, I know, you bought early and got out at the right time, or you weren't really talking about Bitcoin but other cryptos that are different, and so on. I've heard it all).

Blockchain tech is promising, but cryptocurrencies themselves as anything other than speculation is just as dangerous as these Forex ponzis. Invest in them as you wish but please don't promote them as safer alternatives.

I'm pretty sure the same types who maxed the credit cards and took second mortgages to buy Bitcoin are EXACTLY the same ones who jumped eagerly into the forex scam.

parabellum

12th Apr 2018, 10:52

Reminds me of the time back in the seventies when container salesmen were coming round the Gulf getting guys to invest their savings in shipping containers which were then leased to a shipping company. "Cash in any time", they said, "You will get your investment and profits straight back", they said. Truth was when the unfortunates who had fallen for it tried to cash in all they got was a "Oh, sorry, yes your containers were lost at sea, did you have them insured?"

Airbubba

12th Apr 2018, 17:18

More insight into the failed scheme in this Times of India article:

Sydney Lemos: Before downfall, Goa's global scamster lived life in the fast lane

Lisa Monteiro | TNN | Updated: Apr 12, 2018, 13:52 IST

PANAJI: High-end cars, posh villa, lavish parties and foreign jaunts: Sydney Lemos lived life in the fast lane. And he made sure it was out there on social media, controlled by wife Valany, for all to lap up. From driving around in a Ferrari and Maserati to staying in a villa at Dubai’s plush residential area Al Barsha, Lemos led a lifestyle that was the envy of many.

“Lemos deliberately portrayed this lifestyle to convince investors that the company, Exential, was doing very well. It was in no way a scheme that failed. It seemed like a planned fraud right from the start,” an acquaintance of Lemos told TOI from Dubai.

Lemos, 37, was sentenced on Sunday by a Dubai court to over 500 years in jail for duping thousands of investors in a $200 million scam.

Lemos, who is from Mapusa and owned a football club FC Bardez in Dubai, got Goan boys—mostly young footballers—to work for him. “He paid them a minimum of DHS 10,000 a month, when forex companies in Dubai pay between 5,000 and 7,000 dirhams,” the acquaintance said.

“The company running the Ponzi scheme had to look genuine and not like some fly-by-night operator. So, the boys were asked to put on suits and pretend to be busy in office, when in fact there was no work. Lemos’ cabin was always locked and out of bounds for the office staff,” he said.

With no experience and a hefty pay packet, the boys, some of whom were working in supermarkets before joining Exential, did not raise any questions. “The employees were treated to extravagant parties every week and could post pictures on Facebook only after permission from Valany,” he said.

‘Sydney came across as simple’

Besides these extravagant parties, Lemos also treated his staff to two foreign trips and they would be taken along when he bought a new car. When he renewed his vows on Palm Islands in Dubai in 2015 at an extravagant ceremony, the pictures were all over Facebook.

“He would keep posting flashy pictures of parties in high-end clubs and with his cars. Once he knew authorities were after him, he deactivated his account,” said another acquaintance also in Dubai.

But what made him move up the social circuit ladder was when he became the principal sponsor of FC Goa football club in 2015. “He must have got thousands of accounts registered after that. Everybody was talking about it,” he said.

There are rumours that Lemos brought his Ferrari to Goa from Dubai to coincide with his FC Goa deal.

“It was very lucrative to have your money double in 14 months and I was ready to open three accounts totaling $75,000,” the acquaintance said. Lemos lured the investors by offering them 120% annual returns on a minimum investment of $25,000 in a Ponzi scheme that was disguised as forex operations.

“I felt something was not right when I asked them for a security check on my investment. After repeated follow ups, I found that they were not forthcoming. Their contract was also vague, so I didn’t go through with it. Unfortunately, people didn’t care about the paper work. Word of mouth was more powerful,” he said.

“Sydney came across as a simple boy. This kind of face value is necessary to sell a scheme like this,” he said.

But not all of them trusted their gut instinct and fell for his charms.

“My friend who worked for Emirates was so convinced by the scheme that he took a loan to open an account. He didn’t listen to my advice. He lost his job when the company was downsizing and couldn’t even pay his EMI,” he said.

But this acquaintance of Lemos believes that 27-year-old Ryan D’Souza [the account posted here earlier lists his surname as Fernandez - Airbubba], who has also been sent to jail for over 500 years, is innocent. “Ryan got his visa cancelled and was due to travel to Goa but there was a travel ban on the employees of only Exential but not of FC Prime Markets. So, when Ryan was detained at the airport, his friend working at FC Prime Markets was allowed to leave for India as the authorities couldn’t establish a link between the two companies,” he added.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/goa/before-downfall-lemos-lived-life-in-the-fast-lane/articleshow/63721273.cms

g109

13th Apr 2018, 10:05

AERO75

14th Apr 2018, 06:37

Nice, let these guys rot in jail for the rest of their lives, however that will not get the people the money back, as with schemes like that, most of the time, the cash is spend to finance the lifestyle of the guy running the scheme.
I bet there are very few assets left to be distributed.

I am quite sure, that these guys will not rot jail for the rest of their lives. In my experience, they are out in 5-10 years.

exekcabincrew

14th Apr 2018, 19:53

BANANASBANANAS

15th Apr 2018, 02:29

I really don't like to read comments such as "Those greedy idiots who invested in this ponzi deserve to lose their money!"

First, most people are financially illiterate, not by their foul. In school we are taught when some battle between King A and King B took place instead of learning stuff actually relevant to life, like investments and finance for ex.

So when people see their friends making money at lightning speeds, they also want in. It's normal behavior. These investors should be seen as victims, not as "someone who deserves it"

This is a pilots forum, I guess most pilots come from backgrounds when they have the chance to get to know the world of investments, so they are more protected from these schemes. I think its reasonable to assume that pilots get more exposure to finance than CC. Many CC never had exposure to investing, so they are way more likely to fall for these claims. On top of that add the environment of Dubai, all the exuberance around you, everyone is rich except you kind of thing, so there is even more temptation to make money fast, no matter how.

Please think about this before saying that someone deserved whatever.

Finance is complex and mysterious for most people, so only harsh enforcement can stop this sort of schemes from happening. Because as many have said, people never learn. They never will, it's in our nature to wish more than we have. But victims of ponzis are not to blame. The lack of enforcement and regulation is.

Sorry, but I don't agree.

If finance is 'complex and mysterious' to the majority of cc as you put it, then they really should have known better than to have gone head first into a scheme which was attracting just as much negative publicity (from wise heads) as positive publicity - from those with vested interests.

Also, your excuse of naivety does not work with the vast majority of cc I spoke with at the time. When I pointed out to them that they were investing in an illegal Ponzi scheme and taking money from new investors, the typical response was 'Well, as long as it works for me I really don't care!'

So, no sympathy.

dubaigong

15th Apr 2018, 02:34

100% with you BANANABANANAS

nolimitholdem

15th Apr 2018, 04:37

SOPS

15th Apr 2018, 07:22

Yes, it is. What you have described is called ignorance and greed. Blaming your educators for the former and everyone else for the latter is why schemes like this repeat over and over.

The first step to stopping being victimized is to stop thinking like a victim. Yes, it's harder because you actually have to take responsibility for your actions. Not too many people want to do that any more.

As you demonstrate.
That’s why the snowflakes need ‘safe spaces’ in Universities and other such BS, a whole generation is being bought up not to take resposibity for their own actions.

nunka

15th Apr 2018, 10:26

I really don't like to read comments such as "Those greedy idiots who invested in this ponzi deserve to lose their money!"

First, most people are financially illiterate, not by their foul. In school we are taught when some battle between King A and King B took place instead of learning stuff actually relevant to life, like investments and finance for ex.

So when people see their friends making money at lightning speeds, they also want in. It's normal behavior. These investors should be seen as victims, not as "someone who deserves it"

This is a pilots forum, I guess most pilots come from backgrounds when they have the chance to get to know the world of investments, so they are more protected from these schemes. I think its reasonable to assume that pilots get more exposure to finance than CC. Many CC never had exposure to investing, so they are way more likely to fall for these claims. On top of that add the environment of Dubai, all the exuberance around you, everyone is rich except you kind of thing, so there is even more temptation to make money fast, no matter how.

Please think about this before saying that someone deserved whatever.

Finance is complex and mysterious for most people, so only harsh enforcement can stop this sort of schemes from happening. Because as many have said, people never learn. They never will, it's in our nature to wish more than we have. But victims of ponzis are not to blame. The lack of enforcement and regulation is.

I am sorry,but I also don't agree with you.When you make high risk investments,you should be comfortable with the idea of losing all your money,that is why its coming with a high profit,like buying shares and so.If you don't know how to do it-stay in the safe zone and don't risk your money.Banks have low deposit interest rates,but up to a certain amount the money is guaranteed.Financial "ignorance"is not an excuse when you risk your hard earned savings in some dodgy schemes.My husband is buying /selling shares and making sometimes little profits.He tried to talk me to doing it -I'm just not comfortable with the idea that I can loose whatever I will invest and have no interest whatsoever.

halas

15th Apr 2018, 12:03

And to top it all off is the fact that many borrowed money, at cr@p rates, to "invest" in this sh!t.
I recall many a pushy CC advising other CC on how to get the cash to get in to the scheme and get rich quick.
One asked why l was shaking my head when she asked...."what can go wrong?"

halas

g109

15th Apr 2018, 14:19

Ignorance+stupidity+greed+naivety = investors in Ponzi schemes.

And it doesn’t matter if they knew it was a Ponzi or not.
They truly deserve to loose their cash

exekcabincrew

15th Apr 2018, 16:06

Ladies and gents, I still have to disagree with you.

Currently I am studying a MSc in Finance and this is why I advocate that investing should be as safe and as transparent as possible, and this should be guaranteed by the authorities.

I am not sure how this scheme was presented to the "investors", but assuming the scheme had at least some sort of credibility, so an office, a web-page, an app, this is enough to fool inexperienced investors to fall for the trap. 20% per month is obviously impossible. But "obvious" for who? For me and for you it is, but for someone with no exposure to investments it's not.

Saying that it's the investors' foul is similar to saying that the girl that got raped is responsible for it because she was wearing a skirt.

Women should not be afraid to walk in skirts and investors shouldn't be afraid to invest because "there are ponzies everywhere." This is one of reasons why you pay taxes, even if indirectly, since there is were no official taxes in the UAE up until recently. For example UK and US markets are well regulated and it's very unlikely you will lose your funds. As far as I know UAE has thinner regulations, so it attracts crooks like these and makes investing riskier. Btw I think its great the guy got 500 years. He should serve every single one of them.

I am not advocating that you shouldn't do any due diligence before you invest. But after a basic search you should be certain that it's extremely unlikely that you will lose your money in financial assets. When you buy a car, you don't just accept what you are presented, you do some due diligence. But you don't have to become an engineer to be able to buy a car that runs, do you? Same should apply to investments. Call/visit their office (they had one), check their licence (they had one), talk to an independent consultant (Here I have to admit that most people probably skipped this part) this should be enough! You don't have to become a professional investor to save for retirement.

To wrap this up, if the investor did the basic due diligence (basic I mean very basic, no knowledge of FX trading, etc) and then got ripped, its not the investors foul. And it pisses me off that crooks like these exist because they take away credibility from the entire financial system and prevent people from investing and increasing their wealth. And as I previously said, I disagree with the mentality of "you got ripped off, it's your foul". No it's not. This has nothing to do with victim's mentality. This is about the regulatory bodies doing their job right and preventing these schemes from damaging people's life and the countries' economies.

Schnowzer

15th Apr 2018, 16:34

To wrap this up, if the investor did the basic due diligence (basic I mean very basic, no knowledge of FX trading, etc) and then got ripped, its not the investors foul.

Basic due diligence...20% / month? There you have it, show me anywhere a legitimate return that big. It’s just personal greed and they got caught by it.

harry the cod

15th Apr 2018, 16:55

exekcabincrew

There's only one thing we will agree on here, that the UAE should have tighter regulatory control and should have shut this scheme down much earlier. The rest I disagree with.

Your somewhat confusing example of the skirt is a case in point. But, to keep it simple, let's stick with your analogy. How many images can you see on social media of young women, hopelessly drunk staggering from pub to pub in a busy UK town centre every weekend? Will she be raped? Highly unlikely. Why? Because it's normal. Now, take the same girl, put her in a street in Kabul with her short skirt, high heels and stinking of booze and the outcome will be different. Why?, because it's NOT normal.

No different with investing. You don't need to have a 'privileged' background or be studying a PHD in finance to realise that 10% per month is NOT normal. If I'd discovered a scheme that was making me a 'guaranteed' 10% per month, I would not be telling anyone....other than applying to every single bank to borrow as much money as possible. Did it ever cross the minds of these investors that those running the scheme should be doing that too, rather than extolling the virtues of the scheme for complete strangers to invest in?

Harry

givemewings

15th Apr 2018, 16:58

Wow ExEK, your comparison to rape is quite repulsive. There are dozens of other ways to phrase your example without reaching like that.

Basic due diligence would include a Google search. I did this at the time the whole scheme was starting to be talked about on board. Within two clicks I had the previous scheme/company name and pages a mile long full of people warning they'd been scammed by Tadawul/Exential.

So yeah if people couldn't be bothered to Google at least then they do shoulder some of the responsibility of a bad investment for not taking less than 5 minutes to check.

More responsibility belongs to those who were aware, yet convinced others who may have been wary to join by abusing their power dynamic (more senior crew to juniors, for example)

Wizofoz

15th Apr 2018, 17:43

I remember having a young CC on the flightdeck- the Purser (!!) was spruiking this to one and all and she wanted our opinion.

No matter how many times we told her 120%pa was beyond impossible, no matter that we had to explain what a Ponzi scheme WAS, she was just so tempted by the lure of this free money she was obviously going to put her readies in.

If you seek advice, then go with what sounds the nicest, you are responsible when it all goes Tango Uniform.

exekcabincrew

15th Apr 2018, 18:08

It seems to me that many here are having some sort of pleasure from bashing and criticizing those who got caught up in this. This is just plain incorrect and this is why I wrote my post.

Financial crime may have more impact on peoples' life than say, physical violence, or having something stolen, etc. And it is the job of the authorities to make sure it doesn't happen.

This mentality that everyone must know the hustle before investing/buying something reminds me of my home country. Scam and crime is everywhere and guess what, most people agree that every time someone gets ripped off, he/she should have known the rules and how the hustling works, etc. Seriously? Everyone just agrees that it's ok to rob people basically. To me it is not ok. I think that in a developed society you shouldn't watch over your shoulder every time you want to buy something.

That's why I am firmly against criticizing people like this for something they have limited responsibility for.

For last, I understand the greed argument here, but it is something that always existed and will always exist. It's in our nature. So the best thing to do about it is to accept that it's just part of our behavior and the only way to prevent this behavior to translate into a financial disaster is to have well regulated markets. It's not realistic to expect people to "learn" because they never will. And I would ask you to have more understanding for this fact.

fliion

15th Apr 2018, 18:29

ExEK

Your analogy is flawed.

A better one would be if the girl wore the mini skirt to the party, went upstairs and screamed “would someone please do me” as she lay on her back with her legs in the air - and then cried rape.

That’s what expecting 120% pa is -

Due diligence be damned, it was clouded by greed - crying victim afterwards is even more greedy.

givemewings

16th Apr 2018, 00:29

No one said it's OK to rb people. But a lot are saying that those who fell victim cannot put the blame solely on the scammers.

Whatever their knowledge, part responsibility is theirs simply fir the fact that they made the choice to hand over their money. No one forced them to sign it over.

To me it sounds like you are emotionally (financially?) invested in this or close to someone who was and while that's a shame if you did indeed lose money, it was all over the Internet what this was for years after it started in Dubai. 5 minutes on Google would have prevented a world of pain for a lot of peopLe.

And you don't speak for everyone when you say that "greed is just human nature we all do it". Sorry but I'm not greedy enough to chuck all my money into some investment scheme just because all and sundry at work tell me the returns are great. No mattwr how much profit mo ey would help my life and that of my family. Speak for yourself.

BANANASBANANAS

16th Apr 2018, 00:48

ExEK, you talk as if the people who were scammed only had access to one side of the argument. They did not. In my personal experience I know of many people who were told it was illegal, that they would be stealing money from people who joined after them and that one day soon the whole scheme would come crashing down around their ears.

Did they listen? Did they hell! They couldn't sign up fast enough. Their greed and disregard for those that they would try to persuade to sign up after them was too great. And for you to try to portray this as 'normal' behaviour and 'not their fault' is disgraceful and demonstrates a total failure to accept responsibility for 'their' greedy and illegal actions. In the eyes of the law, ignorance is no excuse.

Yes, tighter regulations would be good and the criminals do need to be brought to justice. But so do those who so willingly jumped on what they believed to be the gravy train at their colleagues expense and showed no remorse or conscience at the time but now want everyone to consider them as the victim.

It isn't going to happen. No sympathy whatsoever.

halas

16th Apr 2018, 04:08

Harry hit the nail on the head.

If it is so good then why are they telling others about it?
Keep it to yourself and pour as much in as you can whilst it lasts.

But some can't be told even the bleeding obvious, when it is laid out right in front of their noses on a silver plate with all the garnishing, that this a steaming pile of 'don't go there!'

A FD colleague told me he got into Exential early, skimmed a lazy US$160,000 and rolled the rest back in to it, as he could afford to lose his original $60k 'investment'.
He encouraged his friends into it which they did. He was telling me it was legit, as it was no different to high risk-high return investments, and he should know, his father was a banker. (?!).

Other FD amigos who invested in F1 and lost everything, to only go straight back to the one who took their money, to hand over yet more cash, to learn how to invest in Forex.

Speaking of Forex and learning. I have close friends who handed over quite a bit of money to "learn" Debenture/Forex/Futures trading.
Good luck to them l thought. However l did think out loud and said if it's so good, why are these 'teachers' not making a load of money by keeping their wisdom to themselves?
To this day it was money down the drain.

There is more than one way to skin a cat.
A fool and his money are soon parted.

halas

pilotguy1222

16th Apr 2018, 11:56

Oh yeah, cause Bitcoin wasn't a speculative bubble or anything...:rolleyes:

(Yes, yes, I know, you bought early and got out at the right time, or you weren't really talking about Bitcoin but other cryptos that are different, and so on. I've heard it all).

Blockchain tech is promising, but cryptocurrencies themselves as anything other than speculation is just as dangerous as these Forex ponzis. Invest in them as you wish but please don't promote them as safer alternatives.

I'm pretty sure the same types who maxed the credit cards and took second mortgages to buy Bitcoin are EXACTLY the same ones who jumped eagerly into the forex scam.

Haha. OMG, I wish I had a dirham every time someone says "bitcoin is a bubble". :ugh:

Don't cry because you knew about it way back when but didn't buy any.

Got out at the right time? Not a chance of getting out anytime soon, and I don't promote them at all. If someone mentions it to me, then we talk a little. I don't offer any help at all, nor will I. DYOR(do your own research)

If people max out credit cards and take 2nd mortgages to invest in anything, well they are usually beyond help.

The "high and mighty" attitude in this thread against coworkers is disturbing. IF they assumed/knew it was a ponzi and got into it anyway, then absolutely no sympathy.
Bernie Madoff scammed billions, and he did from people a LOT smarter than anyone in this room.

dubaigong

16th Apr 2018, 12:48

So , in summary we always get to the same thing , don't be greedy...

If you want to become rich quickly and take any kind of risk then don't cry or blame others if you loose everything.

End of the story

fliion

16th Apr 2018, 13:04

Haha. OMG, I wish I had a dirham every time someone says "bitcoin is a bubble". :ugh:

Don't cry because you knew about it way back when but didn't buy any.

Got out at the right time? Not a chance of getting out anytime soon, and I don't promote them at all. If someone mentions it to me, then we talk a little. I don't offer any help at all, nor will I. DYOR(do your own research)

If people max out credit cards and take 2nd mortgages to invest in anything, well they are usually beyond help.

The "high and mighty" attitude in this thread against coworkers is disturbing. IF they assumed/knew it was a ponzi and got into it anyway, then absolutely no sympathy.
Bernie Madoff scammed billions, and he did from people a LOT smarter than anyone in this room.

Another false analogy - Bernie Madoff averaged 11% pa consistently over 15 years which is actually what brought him to the attention of amongst others - Harry Markopolos.

Harry knew that 11% pa through the ups and downs of market swings was impossible - so he started making noise. You can have an average of that after 15 yrs but with huge swings - Bernie didn’t swing.

I think Warren Buffets average over the course of his life is sub 30% return pa.

Then you have a kid from India selling 120% pa - it’s not a “high & mighty” attitude... it’s FFS get a clue...and if you dont have a clue about anything to do with realistic returns then why are you borrowing money to ‘invest.’

I like many others just stopped listening and advising these unwitting CC who were literally gloating about their “investment”. I had one Argie CSV tell me when i asked him what he did on his time off - tell me that he “traded FX” . Go on says I - and he pulls out his Exential app and shows me how much $ ‘he made’ that day on his three accounts. I tried to explain to him that markets swing and so do returns, but no ‘his’ solid trading with Exential despite swings was exactly 10% to the T every month.

I just stopped asking after that. They refused to take input from silly pilots.

pilotguy1222

16th Apr 2018, 13:23

Another false analogy - Bernie Madoff averaged 11% pa consistently over 15 years which is actually what brought him to the attention of amongst others - Harry Markopolos.

Harry knew that 11% pa through the ups and downs of market swings was impossible - so he started making noise. You can have an average of that after 15 yrs but with huge swings - Bernie didn’t swing.

I think Warren Buffets average over the course of his life is sub 30% return pa.

Then you have a kid from India selling 120% pa - it’s not a “high & mighty” attitude... it’s FFS get a clue

and that is just it. Some can't "FFS get a clue".

I am very sound when it comes to financial knowledge, but have you talked with some of these people about money before. They have no, NO clue at all. It is shocking to me, but it is fact. I can't even explain the utter lack of understanding at this level.
These are the same people that have never heard of Warren Buffet, let alone Bernie.
I did not know how BM was uncovered as I had no real interest in that story, so thanks for the details there.

nunka

16th Apr 2018, 17:35

There is nothing like "free lunch" when it comes to money,Dxb is no exception.In the beginning,when they allowed expats to buy properties,some ek colleagues scored well buying and then selling double/tripple.However,I flew with couple of pilots,who lost serious amounts investing in properties to be built and the investor ran away with all the money in Pakistan somewhere...So there is no guarantee when investing,but sometimes the red light is on and the siren is loud.I personally have invested in properties back home without any regrets.However,lost a serious amount of money when a very close relative duped me.So,money comes and money goes,but the most important thing is you and your close ones are healthy.Thats what matters.

Freehills

17th Apr 2018, 10:15

Warren Buffet 1964-2014 did 20.6%. Which is unheard of.

James Duarte

17th Oct 2019, 02:42

After 2 successful trades, I got scammed £50,000 cumulatively. I will advise you all not to invest your hard earned money on binary options. It is all facade as they lure you into investing a lot of money and then steal it at once. Thanks to a security and intelligence firm, I got help to recover my money after months of agony and depression. I am willing to share my experience with other victims who might need help. My WhatsApp number is +447451227184

(Email: [email protected])

harry the cod

17th Oct 2019, 18:49

James Duarte

You're lucky you managed to retrieve your money.

My only question to you would be....why not share your experience on here for one and all to see? Responding to hundreds of possible emails or whatsapp's might be rather time consuming, unless that is you want to obtain and share their details too and pass them to another boiler room.....?

I Have recently had 2 crew talking about SmartCrowd, the only 'digital' based property investment Company regulated in Dubai. One has already invested with hubby. It sounded dodgy, the 2 crew were clueless to basic property investment and the website convinces me that this too is another form of a Ponzi scheme. Anyone with knowledge of this outfit?

Harry

BigGeordie

18th Oct 2019, 09:20