Public Interest Lawyers/Phil Shiner [Archive]

Just This Once...

9th Dec 2016, 07:17

Nothing appears to have changed though. The PSNI decided yesterday to investigate every single serviceman who was involved in a fatal incident in NI.

Yep, every single serviceman in every single event, even if there is overwhelming evidence showing absolutely no wrongdoing, even where no formal complaint exists and even when servicemen were injured or killed during the same incident.

Somehow the word 'serviceman' has become interchangeable with 'suspect'. It should never be the case where serving in the armed forces is justification enough to be detained and questioned under PACE.

tucumseh

9th Dec 2016, 11:08

The PSNI decided

In a slightly different context, but military-related, the PSNI have recently stated that they only commence investigations when authorised to do so by the Crown Office. Someone is behind this, giving plod a prod.

NutLoose

9th Dec 2016, 13:15

Nothing appears to have changed though. The PSNI decided yesterday to investigate every single serviceman who was involved in a fatal incident in NI.I hope that does not include Sqn cats :(

langleybaston

9th Dec 2016, 13:26

Clearly not enough crime to occupy the PSNI.

And the lawyers must need another holiday somewhere exotic.

Basil

12th Dec 2016, 21:46

Want to examine every single serviceman who was involved in a fatal incident in NI, do they? Well, they should examine Paul Burns. (https://blesma.org/about-us/obituaries/paul-burns/)
Newly recruited to the Parachute Regiment, Paul was 18 years old and performing a tour of duty in Northern Ireland when a four-ton truck he was travelling in was destroyed by an IRA bomb.
Both his legs were smashed and burnt to the bone. His right leg was barely spared but his left leg was amputated below the knee. Those who saw him wondered if it might not be kinder to let him die.

Paul had always been in pain – “it’s just a matter of how much”

(FOLLOWING his injuries):
He spent six years as a member of the Red Devils Parachute display team, completed the BT Global Challenge Round the World Yacht Race on “Time & Tide” the first all disabled race around the world.

skippering a 65 foot yacht with an all amputee Blesma crew on the tough Fastnet offshore sailing race

Paul Burns, 52, a true Blesma hero and an injured survivor of Warrenpoint 1979, died suddenly in a hospital in Berkshire on Friday 7th June (2013). He was recovering from a broken leg, suffered whilst participating in the 52 mile 3 Counties Bike Ride the previous weekend.

his autobiography ‘A Fighting Spirit’. . . . a true story modestly told and extremely inspirational.

I've just attended a lecture by a retired BA captain who sailed on that BT Global Challenge. What it doesn't say in the eulogy was that they were doing this the 'wrong' way - down to The Horn and turn right into the 'Roaring Forties'. One day they had Phenomenal Seas with 14 m waves.

Well, at least the Crown Office/PSNI can't get Paul Burns now.

mopardave

13th Dec 2016, 14:21

How about investigating every MILITARY fatality.......nauseating, absolutely nauseating!

MACH2NUMBER

13th Dec 2016, 14:54

Lets just face it the Judiciary, Politicians and most of the general public have no clue as to how the military operate. We all had a pathetic belief that when doing the bidding of our Lords and masters we could operate in accordance with their instruction, our training and ethos. WRONG.
Lawyers, politicians et al should hang their heads in abject shame. Disgusted.

Bigbux

13th Dec 2016, 22:04

It's a shame, considering all the non-public regimental institutions in existence, that a co-ordinated project to bring civil cases against the perpetrators of military murders has not been organised. I'm pretty sure that a crowd-funding venture would be quite successful and I would love the irony of using civil rights lawyers to prosecute pardoned terrorists, rather than the troops and police that society hid behind at the time.

Basil

16th Dec 2016, 12:49

Former soldiers to be prosecuted for IRA man's murder - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38340312)

Two former soldiers are to be prosecuted for murder in relation to the fatal shooting of an Official IRA man in Belfast in 1972.
They are from England, but are expected to appear in court in Northern Ireland in the next few months.

Politicians send military personnel to do police work; a member of a hostile arrmy is shot.
Isn't that carrying out their orders?

Why would anyone join the mil when meally mouthed pollies hang them out to dry for doing what they are trained to do?

Spare me the "Ich vas only obeyink orders!" stuff.

megan

17th Dec 2016, 00:31

This comes to mind. God bless all who serve, it's a thankless task.

hopNAI8Pefg

pr00ne

17th Dec 2016, 12:16

Megan,

Er, you do realise what that fictional speech is attempting to defend don't you?

The only point it makes is the totally deluded attitude of those in uniform who think that they have a right to unjustified, pointless, cold blooded murder.

Just This Once...

17th Dec 2016, 13:16

I have yet to meet anyone in the military who thinks they have the right to commit unjustified, pointless, cold blooded murder. Indeed, such actions are much more common in civilian life than in the military.

When it comes to operations, the number I have served with in testing and demanding environments who have chosen not to fire a single shot is legion. The VSOs use the phrase 'courageous restraint' but the informal 'scared restraint' is also apt.

Coping with and managing those who have been exposed to or had to make the ultimate decision is not easy either and in all the conflicts I have served in the decision not to escalate to lethal force has outstripped the decision to do so by many orders of magnitude.

MACH2NUMBER

17th Dec 2016, 13:38

Pr00ne,
After 37 years in service, I also have never met anyone with the outrageous attitude you describe. You obviously don't even have a clue about UK military discipline, ethos or anything else.
Goodbye

Geordie_Expat

17th Dec 2016, 15:38

A and C

17th Dec 2016, 16:26

About three years ago on this forum I suggested that PIL had crossed the line from seeking redress for their clients to the hounding of servicemen that had become harassment all financed by public money.

These posts quickly vanished from the forum no doubt for fear the very sharp Mr Shinner would go after the website owners in court.

Now I think it is time for those who have been harassed over the years to take PIL's prime movers to court, justice would be served very well if those who ran PIL found themselfs on the thick end of leagal action to remove them from the money they took from the public purse, the prime mover in PIL has already admitted wrong doing so it should not take too much work to extract damages in court.

MACH2NUMBER

17th Dec 2016, 21:48

MODS,
Cut this Pr00ne out of this site , he is only using it to cause hurt to the military, their family and friends. Maybe his name is really pr00tin?

NutLoose

18th Dec 2016, 04:54

Words fail me

'IRA chief who killed my father deserved to be shot? says daughter amid growing row over prosecution of troops (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/17/ira-chief-killed-father-deserved-shot-says-daughter-amid-growing/)

NutLoose

18th Dec 2016, 05:07

Revealed: MoD officials sent Tory MP night time warning over criticism of Government's treatment of Iraq war veterans (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/17/revealed-mod-officials-sent-tory-mp-night-time-warning-criticism/)

BEagle

18th Dec 2016, 08:06

MACH2NUMBER, actually Comrade pr00ne did serve in the RAF. As he himself wrote on 9 Nov 2004:

Yep, I consider myself to have been a pretty useful asset, fairly accomplished Flt Lt, and I was considered a useful F-4 front seater even if I was only ever a Sqn shag.

I did 2 tours cr FJ, how many did you do?

As to jacking it in, well, I got a bit fed up of living in an organisation that had Medieval class distinctions, wouldn’t let me grow my hair long (it was the mid 70’s after all!) didn’t like the fact I wanted to have a separate social life from the OM and had absolutely no interest in secondary duties. So I went, and not quietly!

BTW,

I’m a Barrister, not a “commercial lawyer” look it up in a dictionary……………..

Anyway, back on topic, it's good to see that there are some good people around such as Johnny Mercer - and his parliamentary colleague who let him know that he had been asked by one of the MoD officials to write a negative piece about him for a newspaper...

His report will make interesting reading next month! Although MoD probably won't like it...:hmm:

A and C

18th Dec 2016, 08:12

There is a gravy train here for those who run these witch hunts and all with a sorce of money that is sure to pay up.

There is little wonder that someone who wants to stop their cushy little number of harassing innocent and leagaly defenceless servicemen is bound to incur the wrath on these vermin.

MACH2NUMBER

18th Dec 2016, 14:43

BEAGLE,
Thanks, the info provided by Pr00ne in 2004 says it all. I am sure the RAF are relieved he left to become a professional "barrack room lawyer."

Icare9

18th Dec 2016, 14:58

Pr00ne, I think the word is actually "barista" you've obviously confused the two, or should that be bar steward.......

Basil

18th Dec 2016, 18:27

Some interesting but simple complaints there.

I got a bit fed up of living in an organisation that had Medieval class distinctions.
Isn't that just the chain of command you find in all large organisations?

wouldn’t let me grow my hair long
C'mon, did you ever think that you'd be permitted to appear any way you wished?
You should have been a French hussar of the 18th/19th c who wore braids of hair hanging on either side of the face.

I wanted to have a separate social life from the OM
Easy, move out and socialise with civillian neighbours.
(Wish I'd done that much earlier than I did)

had absolutely no interest in secondary duties
Ha ha, 's wot you signed up for.
I was OC Sub-aqua club; it was great getting indulgence travel to Malta and Mauritius on diving expeditions. OO & SDO didn't come around too often.

Anyway, you had the skill and application to make FJ. Sounds like you should be very glad to have served in HM forces and you'll always have those memories.

MACH2NUMBER

18th Dec 2016, 19:46

Basil,
Very astute comments observations. However, your last sentence detracts from many of the fine people who had the skill and application to make FJ and are glad of their experience. In 6 FJ tours I have only met 2 like Mr P, but as they say, there is always one cuckoo in the nest.

glad rag

18th Dec 2016, 21:44

Pr00ne,

As you obviously dislike the military so much (evidence your ramblings on at least two sites now) I don't understand why you are on a mainly military site unless it is purely to be a total PITA (which you doing really well).
Now then, now then, now then, fair dues to the fella after all it's just business now and a man needs to get his name up in lights these days and what better way to do it on p-prune which as we all know IS closely monitored by the press..

Basil

19th Dec 2016, 09:21

your last sentence detracts from many of the fine people who had the skill and application to make FJ
No detraction intended at all. I was too lazy, incapable or not focussed enough (or all three) to make FJ. I'd initially wanted to fly 'big aeroplanes' but then noticed that FJ seemed to be the popular aim.

engineer(retard)

19th Dec 2016, 11:05

Must have been a great wrench to leave the RAF with its medieval class distinctions to join a modern organisation that wears wigs and gowns, and to call people m'lud and my learned friend.

langleybaston

19th Dec 2016, 11:21

QUOTE:

I got a bit fed up of

Did a barrister write that?

Clearly, command of the English language is no longer a requirement.

beardy

19th Dec 2016, 12:30

This is not JetBlast.
Opinions can and should be discussed, personal abuse betrays the poster's lack of cogent, constructive argument.

Geriaviator

19th Dec 2016, 15:55

This pr00ne is clearly a troll; nothing annoys a troll more than being ignored. Please copy.

I well remember visiting my friend Capt. John Gerelli and his C Coy 2 Queen's who were stationed on the Lower Falls Road in Belfast when the Army went in aid of the civil power on August 17 1969. As in Derry/Londonderry a few days before, the troops successfully separated the warring factions and were welcomed by the communities they had gone to protect.

I was pleased to see the locals bring out another tray of tea and buns for the troops who had been on street duty for 38 hours non-stop, but John told me not to kid myself. "They're glad to see us now, but in six months we'll end up being pig in the middle. We always do." How right he was ...

Basil

20th Dec 2016, 09:24

"They're glad to see us now, but in six months we'll end up being pig in the middle. We always do."
Ain't that the truth!

Finningley Boy

21st Dec 2016, 09:10

Er, you do realise what that fictional speech is attempting to defend don't you?

The only point it makes is the totally deluded attitude of those in uniform who think that they have a right to unjustified, pointless, cold blooded murder.

pr00ne is offline Report Post

pr00ne,

Surely unless someone has marched unarmed inoffensive civilians to line up along a wall then shot them all dead, certainly to be the individual giving the orders to the firing squad is one thing, but where Soldiers have been confronted by such a slippery enemy as the IRA are entitled to the benefit of the doubt?

I may be taking, in your view certainly, a simplistic line. But what more do you expect, and I'll say it, from predominantly young men between 18 and 20 something, who have opened fire in the most testing circumstances. Young men of course who in all likelihood have not the aptitude and mental application to pursue the level of study which you clearly have, in order to reach a standard of understanding of the law that they may be trusted to take years so many years after the event, in order to pick over the exact rights and wrongs of a single shot fired in anger which in the horrendous NI situation saw soldiers effectively on a war footing governed by a legal system which was at peace. British Governments of both the mainstream left and right have seen fit to place those young men in the middle of those circumstances, some are more cerebral than others, but still have to act in seconds rather than deliberate over years before squeezing the trigger or not.

When you were toting the Nuclear Bomb on the centre line of your F-4 after being scrambled, at what point would you have started to wonder whether you were justified in proceeding to toss it toward the middle of East Germany, think of the circumstances conjured up in the film 'Fail Safe'!

Or Dr Strangelove if it is more familiar.:ok:

FB:)

charliegolf

2nd Feb 2017, 11:32

Phil's got a Shiner from the Law Society (or whatever) and has been struck off. Aint payback a bitch?

CG

Stuff

2nd Feb 2017, 11:46

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2017/feb/02/iraq-human-rights-lawyer-phil-shiner-disqualified-for-professional-misconduct

Basil

2nd Feb 2017, 11:47

Made a grumpy old barsteward's day :ok:

Martin the Martian

2nd Feb 2017, 11:58

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZaAkuXTIz4

Life's a bitch, ain't it?

MACH2NUMBER

2nd Feb 2017, 14:21

Good news at last, now for the NI injustice.

NutLoose

2nd Feb 2017, 14:37

Lawyer behind false Iraq abuse claims against British Army struck off (http://news.sky.com/story/lawyer-phil-shiners-misconduct-proven-over-false-abuse-claims-10753190)

He should be made to foot the whole bill for the case.... and any gains from his criminal activities should be confiscated and donated to the Armed Forces charities.

FantomZorbin

2nd Feb 2017, 14:47

Spot on Nutloose :D:D

langleybaston

2nd Feb 2017, 16:17

Good. Very good. Excellent.

Any chance of prosecution?

MPN11

2nd Feb 2017, 17:17

Send the scrote the Government's £30m expenditure on investigation.

Harley Quinn

2nd Feb 2017, 17:20

You have to wonder how hard the MoD tried to protect its men from these accusations or whether they (the MoD) just paid out compensation thus encouraging Shiner and his colleagues.

NutLoose

2nd Feb 2017, 18:03

It does of course now open up the flood gates for those poor victims to sue the pants off him and the other loathsome scum.....

charliegolf

2nd Feb 2017, 18:40

I bet his insurers are crappin' themselves!

Out Of Trim

2nd Feb 2017, 19:13

I hope so.. Good Riddance To Bad Rubbish..

Just This Once...

2nd Feb 2017, 19:44

Good news at last, now for the NI injustice.

This. :ok:

______________

salad-dodger

2nd Feb 2017, 20:00

I bet his insurers are crappin' themselves!
Doubt it! Will they cover him for actions that are illegal, unethical, wilfully negligent etc?

S-D

Compass Call

2nd Feb 2017, 20:10

I'll buy the ammunition for the firing squad :cool:

Hangarshuffle

2nd Feb 2017, 23:17

A question I have often asked but is more difficult to answer is why so many ordinary fighting men were set upon by the educated degree level classes?
Something went wrong. I'm yet to hear an even half coherent answer.

NutLoose

3rd Feb 2017, 01:00

One word....... Greed

That and the total lack of comprehension as to what combat involves, it is alright spouting on from the comfort of their warm cosy offices while people are dying to keep them in that comfort, but I am always of the opinion they should be judged by their peers that have shared that experience, than those that have not.

Basil

3rd Feb 2017, 10:48

Interesting essay. I haven't read all of it.

People Sleep Peacefully in Their Beds at Night Only Because Rough Men Stand Ready to Do Violence on Their Behalf | Quote Investigator (http://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/11/07/rough-men/)

Those who “abjure” violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.

MACH2NUMBER

3rd Feb 2017, 13:19

Well, those in their cosy offices are earning good money and a comfortable life. Their protectors are certainly not.

Arfur Dent

3rd Feb 2017, 14:20

I'd like to know who exactly is "The MOD"??
"They"(whoever "they" are) don't seem to support our Military personnel at all. "They" abandon retired Servicemen ASAP. "They" allow defective and out of date equipment to be used in war zones. "They" decide to arbitrarily sell off an entire aircraft group (i.e. Harriers) without much thought as to what "they're" going to fly off 2 brand new carriers.
Careers are blighted, lives are blighted all because "The MOD" don't seem to have a plot and, if "they" did, "they've" lost it.
Who are "they"? I met lots of very capable chaps who made very high ranks but they were all pretty good, loyal Officers who would not tolerate such behaviour.
So is "The MOD" a bunch of self-serving, non-military beurocrats who have no loyalty to the Lads and Lassies in the front line, and therefore think witch hunts such as these kind of prosecutions are perfectly justified and sign the cheques for Abdul's goats because it's easier that way??

MACH2NUMBER

3rd Feb 2017, 15:27

Arfur,
In my dated experience working in the MOD, as a serving officer,, your last sentence just about sums it up. The civil servants resent the military and would like to expunge all of them from the MOD. Mind you there are also Treasury scrutineers embedded, don't get me going on them as well!

Arfur Dent

3rd Feb 2017, 15:45

Mach 2 - thanks for that. Where is Michael Fallon in all of this? Nobody is asking any awkward questions at all and these enquiries by an ambulance chasing fraudster have ruined Servicemen's lives for 10 years. "Covenant" - what a farce.

langleybaston

3rd Feb 2017, 15:55

Can we please not generalise about "civil servants"?

I and many others were proud to serve the Crown as civilians, many of us in less-than-ideal posts ......... "mobile" civil servants were posted, and the choice was to take it or leave. We helped to win the Cold War in our little ways.

The scientific civil service was [and probably still is] a million miles from self-serving sick-note chair polishers, and a fair few served MoD simply because we had been rejected for the armed services.

I and my family spent 15 years of our lives overseas, with the churn and upheavals associated with military life.

Most of us who served the RAF were the good guys [and girls in later years].

Please be more targetted with the smears.

BossEyed

3rd Feb 2017, 16:38

Very well said, lb.

MACH2NUMBER

3rd Feb 2017, 18:27

LB & Boss,
You are right, I did generalise a bit too much in my last comment and have met many good hardworking civil servants. My father was one. My musings are focussed on 5 and 6 floor MOD when I served there. I well recall being told "What you are saying is military judgement, and military judgement counts for nothing".

ShotOne

3rd Feb 2017, 23:04

Yes, seconded, lb...not only that but some of the invective aimed at civil servants could accurately be used on certain members of the uniformed services comfortably ensconced behind desks, miles from harms way.

Just This Once...

10th Feb 2017, 17:08

IHAT - gone.

Took far too long but at least it has been given the Mess Webley and some moments alone.

Wrathmonk

10th Feb 2017, 18:18

Not before some made a fair few quid out of it...and not just the lawyers

The couple and their army of retired police officers taking £5m a year from taxpayers to pursue British soldiers around the globe (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/17/the-husband-and-wife-and-their-army-of-retired-police-officers-t/)

BossEyed

26th Feb 2018, 10:53

As if there was any doubt about the man's (lack of) integrity:

Disgraced Iraq lawyer Phil Shiner hid houses and even his guitars in bid to avoid paying £7m debts (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/02/26/disgraced-iraq-lawyer-phil-shiner-hid-houses-even-guitars-bid/)

:mad:

esscee

26th Feb 2018, 12:35

Maybe "Shyster" should be a more appropriate moniker for him.

Training Risky

26th Feb 2018, 15:05

Aaaah Haaa Shiner... karma is a bit*h!!

I hope he ends up living on the streets or something a bit worse!

No doubt Pr00ne will be along in a bit to say how we could be sued for being nasty:}

langleybaston

26th Feb 2018, 20:30

Meanwhile a Major is about to go through the mill for the eighth time. Any self respecting PM would do an Action This Day.

NutLoose

26th Feb 2018, 23:17

Damn and here was me hoping he had been raped in some HMP shower and was finally getting the opportunity to take a shafting instead of doling one out to ex and serving servicemen.

It really pisses me off all these witch hunts that serve no purpose but to put serving personnel in a situation of second guessing their actions when that split second can cost their lives.

cynicalint

27th Feb 2018, 23:20

LB,
Wish I could "like" your comment. Agree fully.

pr00ne

28th Feb 2018, 14:11

Training Risky and Big GreenGilbert,

Never fear, I am here! Just waiting to be mentioned 3 times before I appear...

Sorry to disappoint and not to feed your prejudiced agenda, but why on earth would I stand up for the arse wipe that is P Shiner? Some here seem to forget that besides being a Barrister I was also a mil pilot (eons ago!) so the down fall of the likes of that git leave me only happy that justice has been seen to prevail and he deserves all he gets. Unlike some here though I will not wish him physical harm as that is illegal, and hypocritical of any law abiding individual.

LangleyBaston and cynicalint,

May be there is a REASON why that particular issue keeps cropping up, like the evidence?
Any self respecting PM would wish to see justice served and not merely pardon someone because they happen to be a Major.

All this tosh about the law chasing service personnel seems based on the instant decision taking in the heat of armed combat. Well I can assure you that that IS taken into account and consideration, and that the majority of the cases where prosecution has been successful were NOT in the heat of battle nor were they instant decisions. They were often coldly premeditated and prepared with the accused clearly stating their intent and in many cases being recorded by them or colleagues in situations where the victims were chained or other wise restrained.

Our service personnel are of the highest calibre and they need to maintain the very highest standards of behaviour to separate "US" from "THEM."

A mistake is a mistake, and is treated as such. Cold blooded murder is just that, as is torture and systematic abuse. They have no place in the armed forces of the UK, and those on this board who advocate such torture or killing are not worthy to be seen in the company of, or mentioned in the same breath as our forces.

langleybaston

28th Feb 2018, 15:24

QUOTE:
May be there is a REASON why that particular issue keeps cropping up, like the evidence?
Any self respecting PM would wish to see justice served and not merely pardon someone because they happen to be a Major.

One would hope that in the quest for justice one of the previous eight inquiries/ investigations might have found a case to answer, or not.

As for justice, "justice delayed is justice denied".

As for a pardon, that is claptrap. The Major has not been found guilty so can not be pardoned.

Back in your box time.

pr00ne

28th Feb 2018, 15:33

Langleybaston,

So what did you mean?

Back in your box? Arrogant old man.

air pig

28th Feb 2018, 16:54

Gentlemen please, name your seconds then stand back to back, march 10 paces then turn and throw handbags, he who hits first wins.

hoodie

28th Feb 2018, 17:05

May be there is a REASON why that particular issue keeps cropping up, like the evidence?

Surely, unless pr00ne is a barrister on the case, this is no different from the man in the street claiming "There's no smoke without fire"?

Seems strange for a legal professional to take that stance.

pr00ne

28th Feb 2018, 17:05

I didn't actually mean pardon, I meant more 'quosh the case' or something similar, am very well aware that the guy has not been convicted.

cynicalint

28th Feb 2018, 18:48

Pr00ne,
just as well then, that you are not now in a profession where accurate use of vocabulary is important. "Quosh" versus Pardon.
When the double jeopardy law was dropped in 2005, an 800 year old law which prevented being prosecuted twice for the same offence, the intent was to allow one more trial only if new and compelling evidence is produced. Not the eight attempts now being made against a major who has been cleared on each occasion.

Perhaps your use of the word "quosh" may have been deliberate as that is defined in the urban dictionary as "When something goes crazy,or is rabid, and attacks you". I would imagine that is exactly what the major feels is happening to him.

I would prefer the PM to quash any further investigations.

pr00ne

28th Feb 2018, 19:08

cynacalint,

Get over yourself, this is a rumour site on the web and NOTHING matters here, especially typos and spelling errors....

The military are the ones pursuing the case, I guess they must have a reason?

hoodie

28th Feb 2018, 20:18

Well, obviously there's a reason. But is that reason just, moral, professionally based and non-political?

We don't publicly know, but eight (EIGHT!) bites at the cherry don't inspire confidence.

"Justice seen to be done", and all that.

cynicalint

3rd Mar 2018, 00:18

cl00wne,
of course you are perfectly correct. Spelling and typos are not important, ever.
This website is not serious and nothing on here is important, which is why you post meaningful, passionate and controversial comments.

It maybe a reason that the MOD cannot be seen to have been wrong and are frantically chasing an outcome to suit themselves.

I think that Shiner's downfall perfectly illustrates the eventual futility of chasing cases like this and he brings the whole legal profession into an unwelcome disrepute,

BUT, even you,as a legal expert, barrister etc.must see the injustice of EIGHT inquiries

.

A and C

3rd Mar 2018, 03:55

The eight attempts at prosecuting this Major has all the hallmarks of a fairly trivial case aganst a civil pilot about thirty years back.

The pilot won the case in the magistrates court but the police appealed, at this point BALPA got involves because a conviction would have ended the pilots career.

The police lost in all the courts up to the House of Lords and the law lords arrived at the opinion that the police just kept pushing the case up the leagal system because they did not want to back down and would win when the pilot ran out of money to defend himself.

The case aganst this Major has the same smell to it with the MoD playing with tax payers money and a bruised ego because they failed to get the guy on the previous seven occasions.

I fail to see how after seven enquiries an eighth attempt at prosecuting this guy is in the public lnterest.

langleybaston

3rd Mar 2018, 13:42

In my simple world the Ministry of Defence should be on the same side as soldiers as a default position.
Naive to a fault no doubt.

Chinny Crewman

3rd Mar 2018, 14:49

I believe all this talk of pardons and 'quashing'to be irrelevant. As I understand it there is no prospect of Major Campbell being prosecuted the final decision being taken last year. He has now been called to give evidence to the Iraq Fatal Investigations Inquiry from which no prosecution can follow? This has been established as HMG have to carry out investigations into potential war crimes to satisfy our obligations to the International Court of Human Rights.

The issue here isn't that Major Campbell was investigated initially by the RMP and now has to give evidence at an inquiry. The issue is that it has taken 14 years so far, 8 separate agencies have looked into the case and he has been utterly let down by successive governments and the MoD. And they wonder why experience is walking out of the door!

OmegaV6

4th Mar 2018, 13:39

Chinny Crewman

4th Mar 2018, 19:11

This article implies a different scenario to your opening paragraph.....

Omega I think The Mail has worded its article carefully to appeal to its core readership without being totally untruthful. From the IFI website: ‘The IFI are not concerned with determining criminal or civil liability.’ I believe the MoD have confirmed this. Still doesn’t detract from the appalling treatment Major Campbell and others have had to put up with.
http://www.iraq-judicial-investigations.org/

(Looks out of the window for a large black Vauxhall with men in dark suits!)

cargosales

5th Mar 2018, 22:25

In my simple world the Ministry of Defence should be on the same side as soldiers as a default position.

I couldn't agree more ..

Get over yourself, this is a rumour site on the web and NOTHING matters here, especially typos and spelling errors....

The military are the ones pursuing the case, I guess they must have a reason?

And I cudn't agree less.. Eny fule no that the Ministry of Daftness canot be seen to be rong or emmbarras it'self.

And eny fule no that to make your point effectively on a written forum it helps to be able to spell and use grammar at least reasonably well.

As to the rest of what you seem to be trying to say ... I'm thinking of a word but can't remember how to spell it .. twonk? or is it twunt? Someone help me out please ...

CS

cargosales

5th Mar 2018, 22:37

prOOne, I think you should watch this short but very edifying video.

You should especially like the bit from 1'06" to 1'17"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91DSNL1BEeY

pr00ne

6th Mar 2018, 07:59

The Ministry of Defence is THE main prosecutor of soldiers,sailors and airmen, always has been and always will be.

Jeez...

langleybaston

6th Mar 2018, 15:19

Come back with the facts.
Admiralty, War Office, Air Ministry.

A and C

7th Mar 2018, 06:18

It’s not much of an enquiry if you can’t find anyone to blame, after all it looks to the left wingers and the press like a white wash.

But what if there is no one to blame ?.......... Quick guys we better find someone to justify all the expense of the enquiry and our fees !

Al R

7th Mar 2018, 06:58

Fair to say, rights of prosecutors and creditors (not strictly relevant) under current insolvency legislation won’t help him much.

As if there was any doubt about the man's (lack of) integrity:

Disgraced Iraq lawyer Phil Shiner hid houses and even his guitars in bid to avoid paying £7m debts (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/02/26/disgraced-iraq-lawyer-phil-shiner-hid-houses-even-guitars-bid/)

:mad:

superplum

7th Mar 2018, 10:34

Yellow Sun

7th Mar 2018, 11:46

I fear that the issue is the perception that Shiner is not being pursued with the same vigour that applied to his “victims “.

YS

NutLoose

24th Jun 2022, 13:47

He is up in court on fraud charges re the false claims against the Iraq War Veterans

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/ex-human-rights-lawyer-phil-shiner-facing-fraud-charges-over-iraq-war-claims/ar-AAYP6DN?ocid=EMMX&cvid=fb416ed667074d2c91fb5f391d03b946

Former human rights lawyer Phil Shiner is facing fraud charges linked to claims made against Iraq War veterans.

The 65-year-old boss of now-defunct Public Interest Lawyers (PIL) was struck off by the Solicitors Regulation Authority (https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/solicitors-regulation-authority) (SRA) in 2017 for pursuing false torture and murder allegations against British (https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/british) troops.

Shiner, from Birmingham (https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/birmingham), is due to appear at Westminster Magistrates’ Court on Monday to face three counts of fraud following a five-year National Crime Agency (https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/national-crime-agency) (NCA) investigation.

An NCA spokesman said: “Following an NCA investigation and CPS authorisation, Philip Shiner, 65 from Birmingham, will appear at Westminster Magistrates Court (https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/westminster-magistrates-court) on Monday to answer charges in respect of fraud offences relating to legal aid claims made in 2007 and information provided to the Solicitors Regulation Authority in 2015.”

Let's hope he does time.