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DARK MATTER
5th Dec 2016, 10:27
Russian Su-33 crashed in the Mediterranean while attempting to land on Kuznetsov aircraft carrier

https://theaviationist.com/2016/12/05/russian-su-33-crashed-in-the-mediterranean-while-attempting-to-land-on-kuznetsov-aircraft-carrier/

Just This Once...
5th Dec 2016, 11:02
Perhaps they are copying the Chinese and are slowly building a new island in the Med.

SpazSinbad
5th Dec 2016, 11:04
Russian Navy jet crashes into the Mediterranean after bombing raid in Syria | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4000988/A-SECOND-MiG-jet-crashes-Mediterranean-attempting-land-Russian-aircraft-carrier-returned-Syria.html)
"...The Aviationist reported the plane crashed at its second attempt to land on the aircraft carrier in good weather conditions.

The Russian Ministry of Defence said the arrester wire, which is designed to catch the aircraft as it comes into land on the carrier's short runway, snapped.

The plane skidded off the end of the runway but the pilot ejected before it hit the water and he was later picked up by a Russian Navy search and rescue helicopter...."

Tashengurt
5th Dec 2016, 12:16
JTO!
You owe me a keyboard!

A_Van
5th Dec 2016, 14:01
As usual, they do not bother until stepping in the same pile of **** two times in a row. Wish they give up with air carriers and concentrate on the "regular" aviation.

Lonewolf_50
5th Dec 2016, 14:08
Two observations.
(1) Not the first time an arresting cable ever snapped. Not the first time a jet was lost due to that happening.
(2) Good job on knowing his procedures, he executed the Silk One departure and the SAR crew picked him up.
So the Russians are "learning by doing" when it comes to carrier ops. Welcome to the club, it's not for the faint of heart.

As to the Journalistic coverage ...
The Russian Ministry of Defence said the arrester wire, which is designed to catch the aircraft as it comes into land on the carrier's short runway, snapped. Terminology wise, that's not a runway, it's a flight deck. (I suppose it serves the same purpose as a runway ...) :8

Wetstart Dryrun
5th Dec 2016, 15:17
My friend, who did a bit with the FAA, recounts a history of a Scimitar squadron who went on a cruise and returned with none of the original airframes.

...plus ca change

Mechta
5th Dec 2016, 15:59
Telephone rings and is answered at Russian Defence Ministry....

"Drastvetya"

(In a mid-Atlantic accent):
"Drastvetya Comrade. You appear to be having some problems with your carrier landings."

"Errrr... Da, you could say that."

"Comrade, we have some shiny new STOVL strike aircraft coming off the production line very soon. As a new customer, we can give you some very early production slots, would you be interested?"

"Spaseba, but we need something now."

"This is your lucky day. We also have access to some seventy two low mileage, one careful owner, previous generation V/STOL fighter bombers which an owner with financial difficulties was forced to relinquish. For a whole squadron, I can do you a very good price. How many shall I pencil you in for?"

"I will check and get back to you."

"Nyet problyema. Dosvedanya".

SpazSinbad
5th Dec 2016, 16:21
'Wetstart Dryrun' said:
"My friend, who did a bit with the FAA, recounts a history of a Scimitar squadron who went on a cruise and returned with none of the original airframes.

...plus ca change"
Yep olden days were tough on airframes....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RTCWhZwyN0

Fareastdriver
5th Dec 2016, 17:27
I believe that in those days they relied on accidents to keep the spares coming.

Wetstart Dryrun
5th Dec 2016, 17:56
Thank you, Spaz. ....all heroes!

STOVL took the sport out of it.

I hate boats.

Lonewolf_50
5th Dec 2016, 18:01
Wetstart, how do you feel about landing on ships? :)

/Naval terminology pedantry mode off

Basil
5th Dec 2016, 18:32
Wetstart, how do you feel about landing on ships? :)

/Naval terminology pedantry mode off
Perhaps Wetstart was referring to this:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/11/British_Submarine_HMS_M2.jpg/799px-British_Submarine_HMS_M2.jpg

or even this: ;)

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/f9/17/5f/f9175fa04aa746a192ed6299f4101758.jpg

Wetstart Dryrun
5th Dec 2016, 18:52
Mr Lone,

Thank you for your kind inquiry. I have done a few ski jumps into the ether with no untoward issues - very nice way to get airborne.

I have not landed on a boat. I guess the closest to a flight deck is a creeping vertical landing on a 30ft wide tin strip. I found the fore/aft positioning on a VL, the trickiest since a puffer duct off the edge of a pad was a messy business, and a 70ft pad did not have a big margin for error- a deck has to be better.

I did not join the Fleet Air Arm

I prefer my tent in the swamp to a hammock on the cold wet salty sloppy stuff

I salute those who operated Tombs and Buccs off the RN Escort Carriers.

Out Of Trim
5th Dec 2016, 19:08
Oops, this is getting expensive!

It might be an idea to get some stronger cables..

Lonewolf_50
5th Dec 2016, 20:17
Mr Lone, Thank you for your kind inquiry. I have done a few ski jumps into the ether with no untoward issues - very nice way to get airborne.
I was once advised that "a ship can carry a boat, but a boat can't carry a ship" as a way to remember the distinction. I once worked with a USAF F-15E back-seater who did an exchange tour on a USN carrier. All said and done, he's glad he did it but prefers to land "feet dry" as a rule. :cool: To each his own.

Expatrick
5th Dec 2016, 20:41
Let's hope the forthcoming British carrier born aircraft don't suffer a similar fate.

tartare
5th Dec 2016, 20:45
Where did that sketch come from Basil?
Cripes - a few shock loaded engines in that clip Spaz posted...

EDIT: Ah - I see - an image on Google.
Interesting to read about DARPA's Project Hydra (http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/02/21/will-us-navy-build-an-underwater-aircraft-carrrier.aspx)

Bigbux
5th Dec 2016, 21:56
Let's hope the forthcoming British carrier born aircraft don't suffer a similar fate.

I'm pretty sure broken arrestor wires won't be a problem on the QE2 class.

NoHoverstop
5th Dec 2016, 22:19
/Naval terminology pedantry mode off

Sounds like Fish-head pedantry to me, rather then universal naval pedantry.

"Call it a boat. It annoys the Fish-heads", was the advice I was given. And if the term "boat" was good enough for aviating naval colleagues from both sides of the Atlantic, one of whom got a medal for not crashing a Sea Fury very much, then it seems at least to be worthy of consideration.

Lonewolf_50
5th Dec 2016, 22:27
Sounds like Fish-head pedantry to me, rather then universal naval pedantry. "Call it a boat. It annoys the Fish-heads", was the advice I was given. Given that the T-45 pilot hopefuls still refer to "hitting the boat for the first time" that slang has not changed on this side of the Atlantic. Likewise with initial DLQ's for the rotary wing folks.
Given that the land based flyers seem to have no end of needle to offer naval aviators, I'm a bit surprised to see your inability to accept any of it coming the other way ... did you notice the smiley face in my initial query to Wetstart? If you're not careful, you may begin to confirm Sharkey's complaints about the RAF. :eek: Can't have that on PPRuNe, eh? (And I'll buy the next pint ...)

SpazSinbad
6th Dec 2016, 00:07
Adding to 'Basil' post on previous page: A4Gs on O Boats [Old Oberon Class Submarine - RAN Slang]

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l261/SpazSinbad/NewNewAllBum/A4G888subWessexFORUM.gif~original (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/SpazSinbad/media/NewNewAllBum/A4G888subWessexFORUM.gif.html)

SpazSinbad
6th Dec 2016, 01:00
:-) Hope for some (retarded nasal radiators)...
https://news.usni.org/2016/12/05/second-russian-carrier-based-fighter-crashes-pilot-safe#more-22726
"...The two crashes show potentially weaknesses in their naval aviation enterprise. The MiG crash – if it did result from the fighter running out of fuel – illustrates Russian naval aviation doesn’t have an organic aerial refueling capability. The Russians also have historically had a shortage of qualified aviators.

A new Russian naval aviation training facility that was set to open in 2015 is still not operational. To make up some of the difference, Russians have used retired naval aviators to fill in gaps in personnel.

“A few years ago there were stories they were largely contractors as pilots,” Eric Wertheim — naval analyst and author of U.S. Naval Institute’s Combat Fleets of the World — told USNI News on last month. “They’ve been trying to pass that skill on but there’s not the ability to do that because the pool is small and they’re not a lot of facilities available.”..."

Lonewolf_50
6th Dec 2016, 02:29
The Russians also have historically had a shortage of qualified aviators. A new Russian naval aviation training facility that was set to open in 2015 is still not operational. To make up some of the difference, Russians have used retired naval aviators to fill in gaps in personnel. Uh, I never got the memo, nor a job offer. For the right amount of vodka and access to the bevy of beauties in that land, I think the Terms of Reference could have been agreed, and their paying my way through the Monterey DLI Russian course would have closed the deal.

But, they never called. :p

Wensleydale
6th Dec 2016, 09:26
I was once advised that "a ship can carry a boat, but a boat can't carry a ship" as a way to remember the distinction.


LW - in that case.....


http://www.shipspotting.com/photos/middle/5/3/9/89935.jpg

sitigeltfel
6th Dec 2016, 10:17
Wetstart, how do you feel about landing on ships? :)

/Naval terminology pedantry mode off

Like this one? ;)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alraigo_incident

BD4oiBSXGDM

Wetstart Dryrun
6th Dec 2016, 11:30
I'm sorry the nuances went over my dozy head.

Just to clarify, I don't like boats with oars, boats with sails, boats that take you cruising or grey boats the navy keep at Portsmouth.

I like naval aviators, especially having been involved in Harrier conversions for a good many some 35 years ago. They organise good parties.

An into wind decel and VL is the gentleman's way to arrive, even if it is on a bloody ship or boat or through-deck cruiser or aircraft carrier (opening shortly).... Got to beat some rodeo cable-catching eyeball popping business.

Basil
7th Dec 2016, 09:19
Where did that sketch come from Basil?
Cripes - a few shock loaded engines in that clip Spaz posted...

EDIT: Ah - I see - an image on Google.
Interesting to read about DARPA's Project Hydra (http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/02/21/will-us-navy-build-an-underwater-aircraft-carrrier.aspx)
I think I googood something like submarine aircraft carriers and there it was.
Don't submariners (esp US) refer to them as 'boats'?

Basil
7th Dec 2016, 09:28
They organise good parties.
As many have discovered in RN wardrooms :yuk:;)

We DID once get our own back on the Lt Cdr who visited us in the crew hotel the following evening :ok: