Herr Müller announcement on 24. Let's speculate... [Archive]

P7xkk

24th Nov 2016, 09:40

Hot off the press! the very day that cost cutting measures are announced, i.e. stopping free tea and coffee for staff in Engineering (and presumably elsewhere too), the Puzzle Palace hosts a buffet banquet for the Senior senior management in front of Costas.
Just to rub salt into the wounds, the HR staff that have just been laid off were exiting the building as the high and mighty were taking up their plates.
Does this tell a story about how we should not be surprised at anything anymore?
Or, did STC foot the bill?

donpizmeov

24th Nov 2016, 10:30

https://youtu.be/YU6ebNd9v-w

JAYTO

24th Nov 2016, 11:40

It seems someone forgot to press send on the email button before leaving for the weekend........ that can be the only explanation.

J

donpizmeov

24th Nov 2016, 11:44

I believe today is just for the ruling muppets. Mortals are to be told what they need to know at a later date. Some departments will start hearing on Sunday. Or so the rumour goes.

fatbus

24th Nov 2016, 12:04

Exactly ! If anything significant it's going to be kept low key and not made public.

Do you honestly think they would make a public announcement " we are parking 20 aircraft and laying off 100s of people" please fly Emirates

Plane and simple

24th Nov 2016, 14:41

It was never going to be an announcement to us minions.
Can anyone get the general gist from a management type and post it?

Any truth the the rumour that HUNDREDS of grade 8 & 9 at HQ laid off already and currently working termination notice periods?
Any locals had their contracts terminated or are all the victims expats?

Add these culls to the thousands of oil families laid off recently, and there will be some school places at GEMS opening up next term.

natops

24th Nov 2016, 15:06

The only thing I expected today was the salary notification. Or am I too early, or maybe not on the payrole anymore...

BigGeordie

24th Nov 2016, 16:03

natops, maybe they are trying to tell you something.

Of course there won't be an announcement of lay-offs, aircraft parked up and so on but I do confidently expect a lot of PR about how the business is now running much more efficiently thanks to the sterling efforts of the management (VP level and above only, obviously) who have worked tirelessly to find areas where costs may be cut without impacting their bonus. Oops, I mean service levels. If these measures don't work it will be down to the lazy employees (the ones left, anyway) who clearly aren't working hard enough. Only 105 hours a month for pilots? Pah!

Keep rowing, Minions.

Fromagio

25th Nov 2016, 21:27

Apparently a cull of cabin crew managers is also on the cards.

fatbus

25th Nov 2016, 21:49

So, what was it?

springbok449

26th Nov 2016, 05:44

Any cull in the Fleet Office?

The.Humble.Guy

27th Nov 2016, 10:46

I would think the S African who has never done anything of note apart from studiously refuse to answer phones or answer emails is probably a target for culling!!

She's not South African. Check your facts.

777boyindubai

27th Nov 2016, 12:33

Fat Pat is indeed from SA.

nolimitholdem

28th Nov 2016, 01:12

Hmmm. I'm not convinced of that, as I'm not certain she even owns a computer. I don't recall her ever actually responding to a single email sent to her.

If Mueller is looking for a poster child for redundancy, he's found her. Surely she's milked EK long enough to be sent on her way. "Oxygen thief" would be a kind term.

nakbin330

28th Nov 2016, 06:48

Let's be fair here. PP must receive hundreds of emails daily and although each email may be very important to the sender, said email may rate far lower on her list of priorities, and quite rightly so. PP is the Manager of Fleet (I think) and comms should be first directed to her underlings. If the issue needs elevation, then write to PP, and only then.

I know, I know, trying to get a response from further down the ladder is equally impossible.

Speaking for myself, if an issue is important and demands a response, I have always received it.

Be careful what you wish for.

BigGeordie

28th Nov 2016, 07:28

Thing is, it is part of the Manager of Fleet (or Fleet Manager or whatever) job to respond to emails. If they aren't doing that (even if it is just a quick "I'm looking into it, I'll get back to you.") they are not doing the job they are paid for.

littlejet

28th Nov 2016, 09:14

superintendent PP always answers emails and solves issues promptly. I suppose he will be sacked first

nolimitholdem

28th Nov 2016, 09:18

Let's be fair here. PP must receive hundreds of emails daily and although each email may be very important to the sender, said email may rate far lower on her list of priorities, and quite rightly so.

No.

You are essentially defending either her laziness in replying, her unwillingness to delegate to an underling, or her inability to manage her time and resources. All completely unacceptable in a senior manager.

Of course I don't expect an immediate response to every single message that comes into her Inbox. The volume must be enormous. And occasionally emails go missing, are accidentally deleted, whatever. Fine. But we're not talking about the odd delayed response here. More like a total lack of respect she has shown over and over and over again by completely ignoring multiple attempts at communication. I would challenge you to find very many who don't have a story about trying to contact PP - she's infamous.

As BigGeordie says. It's her job. If not to personally answer, to pass along to the relevant department. If she can't do it, surely she has underlings to assist.

About the best I can say is that at least she isn't an aberration. The horrendous lack of comms seems to be a company-wide cherished tradition.

Sheikh Your Bootie

28th Nov 2016, 12:35

In my personal experience PP has always been helpful for me, many times and responds pretty promptly.

Like others say, be careful what you wish for.

SyB :ok:

Talparc

28th Nov 2016, 13:27

I observed PP quite often in chatting up everybody in the office e.g experience of last nights dinner, wedding invitations... while her phone was ringing and emails popping in, no reaction from her just keeping on talking about her private stuff.
Oh she just stopped talking as someone asked to bring her coffee from costa.
Yes she is totally useless!

777boyindubai

28th Nov 2016, 13:34

A totally useless and utter bully is our Pat. A prime example of why EK is where it is today. Ill put in 5 fils for her leaving do....

Mr Good Cat

28th Nov 2016, 14:30

A totally useless and utter bully is our Pat. A prime example of why EK is where it is today. Ill put in 5 fils for her leaving do....

Yup, the only time I saw her for any prolonged period was the day the new uniform measuring started.

She was present at the free posh coffee machine and donuts for quite a while whilst her daughter ran the reception desk there.

No axe to grind with her personally despite many important unanswered emails and unresolved issues, but she's part fo the problem and typical of the sort that need to go.

Cloud Bunny

28th Nov 2016, 18:56

I agree with Cedrus. I've had a couple of rough patches here and in both cases a rapid and sympathetic response was required, I got it both times from PP. She's also sorted out a few non urgent queries in quick order too.
Maybe it's because I'm always polite in emails, maybe because I've been on the other side of the office door and I know first hand what a load of complete and utter gob****es WE can be at times I'm willing to cut them a little slack.
I'm well aware of the stories and I'm sure others have had different experiences but to come on here and wish someone to lose their livelihood is utterly deplorable and each and every one of you that has made such a statement should take a long hard look at yourself in the mirror, imagine the shoe being on the other foot. It's called bullying and it's disgusting.
Regardless of what the outcome of this review is until the 9th floor is vacated and fresh ideas and leadership is introduced NOTHING will improve. Maybe that's where attention should be focused.

Panther 88

28th Nov 2016, 19:09

Right on the money there Mr. Bunny. Over my "career" here, I have had numerous dealings, meetings and emails with both ladies. Not ONCE, was anything ignored or put aside. If it was that important to me, I made an appointment with them to sort something out. I have witness both ladies go way out of their way and make the appropriate correspondence to get stuff done.

It's their job, I know, but they have to deal with a lot of shiite from this pilot cadre. And from differing cultures, languages, and expectations. What you might see as important, may be gnats to what they have to deal with day to day. Bad experience? What did you do to sort it out?

777boyindubai

28th Nov 2016, 19:12

Plenty of people have been on the sharp end of her bullying. Her lack of email responses. Yes, she did help a few people. I heard of one case. But in general its not very positive for her. We all have our opinions. Im entitled to mine as you are to yours. I would be very happy to see 90% of the Brits and Indians go. Several hundred grade 10 and above have to go along with the complete 9th floor.

adel

28th Nov 2016, 19:33

I'd have to second that, in 9 yrs, FJ has without a doubt , consistently rectified problems or guided me to the correct department.
I'd have to say FJ is doing her job..

PP on the other hand, well, as far as I'm concerned she might as well not be there.
I've emailed her twice with no response.. don't even try

777boyindubai

28th Nov 2016, 19:59

FJ. Full credit. Always.

5star

29th Nov 2016, 03:19

FJ also gets a 5star from me. always replied... PP however... totally useless. Her mailaddress is like a blackhole in the fleet mailserver. All email gets delivered, but always dissapears and u hardly get any reply....
Where are the days Mrs H.W. (oposite of black) was our prime contact. She was soo good. Ofcourse all competent people were been bullied away....
Lets see what happens the coming weeks. very very interesting times ahead and maybe not all hope is lost....

nolimitholdem

29th Nov 2016, 03:57

For those of you who received satisfaction from your dealings with the Boeing Fleet Manager Manager Fleet whatever, good for you. As you can see, you may just be in a significant minority. But all such things are anecdotal after all, I don't claim a scientific study was undertaken. Still, I stand by my comments regarding general incompetence if one of the most fundamental tenets of management - communication - is so grossly mishandled. I can assure you that nothing I ever sent to PP was worded in any way such that the lack of response could be traced to rudeness, unreasonableness, or language on my part. It would seem her approach to such things is random neglect. Outstanding quality in a senior manager.

Sorry, but this idea that "what might seem important to us isn't to them" isn't a defence, if anything it only exemplifies the arrogance that seems to pervade management. I don't think anyone is expecting to have their every whim catered to or to receive only the response they want to hear. But a response IS expected.

Lest it seem that this is simply a rant against all, I am quite happy to say that I too had excellent, prompt communication from both FJ and HW (is the latter even there still?). Proving that good management is possible and pointing up the contrast to sadly, most in EGHQ.

Mr Good Cat

29th Nov 2016, 07:05

Yes, should have pointed out that FJ always provided some sort of response even if her hands were tied.

Integrity is the word I would use to describe the difference in management styles between the two.

alwayzinit

29th Nov 2016, 07:44

Spot on Mr GC!
However, I do have to say that as a working group, pilots, are not an easy group manage or satisfy.
By our very nature we are near as damn it self employed, when at work. In general our instructions are executed promptly and, of course, we get to prioritise events and actions.
My own experiences dealing with PP and FJ have been mixed, but on the whole BOTH have come up trumps as and when the problem was really important.
FJ has always been very proactive and I have great respect for how she has taken over the Boeing FM job.
It has to be said that both of these ladies HAVE to filter and prioritise the various issues that come across their desks, with that in mind and there are only so many hours in a day, someone is always going to be disappointed. As I have been on occasion too.
My point is, I suppose, if it is really THAT important, go and see them. Face to face has always been the best form of comms.

Plane and simple

29th Nov 2016, 08:09

All this talk of who is the better MF Or FM proves the point entirely.

There are way too many managers at HQ. Like BA in the 90s.
Even HRH has had enough of the Costa dwellers bleeding him and his country dry for little return.

Let's hope Herr Muller can sort the good from the bad.

On s personal note, I'm hoping he can change attitudes from a punitive system to one that rewards its workers. Time will tell.

keepitrealok

29th Nov 2016, 08:46

On s personal note, I'm hoping he can change attitudes from a punitive system to one that rewards its workers. Time will tell.

On a personal note, I'm looking forward to leaving and getting my life back.

There will be no change, as much as all wish it to occur, and staying is merely a form of battered housewife syndrome. They've had their chances and will not change. Stop trying to believe otherwise.

Talparc

29th Nov 2016, 10:26

EGT is a good example of an useless Manager too.
Hope for his exit soon!
Same as for Airbus Fleet Management.Here all of them are useless and definitely not needed.

Mr Good Cat

29th Nov 2016, 17:36

EGT is a good example of an useless Manager too.
Hope for his exit soon!
Same as for Airbus Fleet Management.Here all of them are useless and definitely not needed.

But at least he's entertaining. Can't say that about most of the Costa Dwellers.

fatbus

30th Nov 2016, 02:17

Just alittle thread drift. But it is EK pilots so that is expected.

ruserious

30th Nov 2016, 08:03

From a reliable source who was at the meeting, CM put up a dozen or so subjects and issues for discussion. One of his major issues was the silo's that exist in the company and that a significant culture change was required.

BigGeordie

30th Nov 2016, 08:24

glofish

30th Nov 2016, 08:49

.... and that a significant culture change was required

Right here all the hopes fade! :uhoh:

The prevalent culture at EK is the local culture, with a small lethal add-on of old-fashioned British colonialist arrogance and dumb Indian administration silliness.

Who would be able to change this, as these groups have no interest at all to cooperate?

A Kraut?

Keep on dreaming and prepare for Gulf Air II.
At least in two or three years the numbing holdings at DXB will be history.

motley flight crue

30th Nov 2016, 11:05

Sadly, I agree with glofish 100%

Nikita81

30th Nov 2016, 11:42

So it is silos (or, if you prefer, ivory towers) and the company culture that is the problem? I'm pretty sure any of us could have told them that!

The big question is, how to change the company culture when it not only ingrained in the company but also comes from the countries that (some of/most of) the workers come from?
Yet again, nobody told them that.

EK doesn't have a culture, that is its biggest problem. Everything was left for random occurrences (influenced by mix of cultures from all over the world) to form a substitute for culture (of fear), while the company was growing fast and employing more and more wasta incapable and uneducated "managers".

A multinational (multicultural) company has to have a strict organizational culture - a set of rules, work ethics and talent/motivation strategies so that nobody's personal or local culture or religion can't influence it much. And that organizational culture has to have strong mechanisms of support (non-corrupted, capable HR with integrity and power to decide plus educated, modern locals as their supervisors). This way that British arrogance and greediness and Indian administration silliness plus local lack of knowledge and know-how brought the company down.

EK lost a human resources management battle.

Edit:

I forgot to mention Labour Law. Nobody and nothing should be above the law. Not even Sheikh. If he wants to keep his multicultural business. Otherwise, he should employ only locals. And there is nobody who would tell him this in his face. The fact that EK is not the subject of the Labour law causes the fact that EK doesn't have an organizational culture. It's a vicious circle and the solution requires changes in the very UAE political system. That is why it is almost impossible to change things in EK.

notapilot15

30th Nov 2016, 16:02

A multinational (multicultural) company has to have a strict organizational culture - a set of rules, work ethics and talent/motivation strategies so that nobody's personal or local culture or religion can't influence it much

Why would they do that? This is a fantasy land to satisfy everyone's fantasies.

Brits cannot run a colonial slave ship in their own country, unfortunately western laws won't permit.

Indians have their lifelong fantasies which cannot be fulfilled in India. Brits are fulfilling their fantasies almost to the count of 20K.

Locals can always blame Brits and Indians if this experiment fails, their hands are clean while enjoying both above mentioned benefits.

Nikita81

30th Nov 2016, 20:48

Why would they do that?

Because they want to keep making money?

ruserious

30th Nov 2016, 23:11

Nikita, you are totally wrong, every organisation has a culture, culture by definition is simply "the way we do things round here" and that is pretty apparent to anyone who is paying attention.
Yes of course it is not a good or generative culture, but it is a culture none the less.
As someone very wise once said, culture is to organisations, what personality is to human beings.

Nikita81

1st Dec 2016, 00:45

Maybe you are right, ruserious. Nevertheless, I don't see consistency nor rules nor ethics in that "culture". "The way we do things around here" changes from one case to another, there is no same rule, even the bad one, for all. Different rules apply depending whether you are a local, British, manager, pilot, cabin crew or a check in agent. Fear is the only common nominator. So, it's not a culture to me. The word "culture" has a positive conotation in Serbian language.

ruserious

1st Dec 2016, 03:38

Yes but we are not in Serbia Toto. There is nothing positive or negative in the components that make up a culture, just peoples behaviours, values and beliefs. What to some is positive, is negative to others. So a lack of consistency, rules, ethics and fear as a common denominator are exactly the components that make up a culture

Enos

1st Dec 2016, 05:59

[QUOTE=ruserious;9595012]Yes but we are not in Serbia Toto.

Hey Ruserious just googled the "definition of Toto in Spanish" it put a smile on my face.

The angry Serb is not going to be happy!! more of the same I suppose.

Nikita81

1st Dec 2016, 08:03

@Enos

This place should be called "PPRuNefI", fI standing for "for Idiots", you being the biggest contributor (my apology to few exceptions).

@ruserious

I am standing behind my statement. Chaos of random rules and no ethics at all is, logically, not a system. Organisational culture is a system of written and then applied rules, values and behaviours. In some cases EK doesn't even have a rule, so the behaviour is random thus there is no system. Lack of something is not something, lack of culture is not culture. Just chaos. I am talking about the fact that EK neglected the creation of organisational culture, which left an empty space for randomness. We can discuss it until tomorrow now but it really has nothing to do with the thread.

notapilot15

1st Dec 2016, 11:23

Chaos is a well known management technique. Every one is on their toes while three groups enjoy others misery.

There is no shortage of revenue. EK will get $22B-$24B this year as well. Based on estimates entire fleet lease/finance costs only $2.4 Billion. I am sure every other business in Dubai charging less to "make this work", yet management are throwing away good money. It is not on Pilots, Cabin Crew and not even on Passengers.

Nikita81

1st Dec 2016, 11:47

That "technique" is called stupidity, and it is well known. It's just that it isn't very sustainable, so most of the companies which plan in long terms avoid to use it.

notapilot15

1st Dec 2016, 15:17

Technique may be stupid but it is in practice, particularly in post 2008 GFC corporate world. I know a major corporation which layoffs few employees every week and reorgs randomly (Director becomes Admin Asst ...) just to improve productivity. No employee is safe.

US carriers prior to 9/11 were spending lavishly, now keeping cash under the mattress.

Even though Emir provided excellent access to finances and unprecedented ASAs for such a long period even when world economy was down, Sir committed two(among several) biggest blunders 1) Buying only large planes 2) Treating core employees badly. Both are irreversible in short term and there is no long term in this business.

Any other airline(including state owned) executive will get on their knees to get that much of cash/debt through owners. But Sir blew it.

Nikita81

1st Dec 2016, 16:36

Apart the fact that I agree reg. sir's blunders, what do you mean by "there is no long term in this business"?

Emma Royds

1st Dec 2016, 18:55

TCAS has left the company. It seems as if it was a rather swift and quiet departure as well. A fitting end to his tenure.

Mr Good Cat

1st Dec 2016, 22:53

TCAS has left the company. It seems as if it was a rather swift and quiet departure as well. A fitting end to his tenure.

Wow that was quick. Was this one of Mueller's first requests or a coincidence?

JAYTO

2nd Dec 2016, 01:23

Maybe he knows the **** state he helped get the company into and didnt want to be around when the blame game starts.

J.

Dropp the Pilot

2nd Dec 2016, 01:29

Wasn't he supposed to head up a new flight training establishment?

A300Man

2nd Dec 2016, 04:43

Pardon my ignorance, but who or what is TCAS?

Mr Good Cat

2nd Dec 2016, 06:10

Ex DSVP-FO.

Yorkshire_Pudding

2nd Dec 2016, 09:00

Back to topic. I heard he wants to start a new stand alone low cost long operation out of Dubai independent of the EK product.

ruserious

2nd Dec 2016, 09:05

I heard he wants to start a new stand alone low cost long operation out of Dubai independent of the EK product.
Yay, do you have his contact details, I sooo want to go and work for him

Mr Good Cat

2nd Dec 2016, 10:17

Back to topic. I heard he wants to start a new stand alone low cost long operation out of Dubai independent of the EK product.

EK IS a stand-alone low cost long-haul operator.

Assuming we mean low costs for the company not the pax?

CAYNINE

2nd Dec 2016, 10:45

There's one right across from Terminal three that is ready made for EK LLC..... Fly Dubai!!!!!Just take the thing over and bingo.... all the close in destinations are covered with frequency and with connectability to the main op...

ExDubai

2nd Dec 2016, 11:10

Back to topic. I heard he wants to start a new stand alone low cost long operation out of Dubai independent of the EK product.
I don't believe that cannibalism is the answer to EK's problems.

glofish

2nd Dec 2016, 11:47

That's actually not a bad idea.

Certainly, EK is already a low cost long haul operator, if you consider the cost of crew and maintenance. We all know the problem is the ugly overhead. Now just let that dreadful thing die in disgrace and pick up some reasonable numbers and models of existing aircraft, engineers and crew and build it new, right from scratch without all the useless AARs and his Bouncy Castle bootlickers. They can continue all by themselves in a Parkinsoneske EGHQ.

Tataaaaahhhh, there's what His Highness wanted from Christoph!

notapilot15

2nd Dec 2016, 11:56

I don't think they will create a product independent of EK, they may try to offer a product similar to UA's Basic Economy.

This idea is DOA for a sixth freedom carrier which thrives on hauling third world VFR grannies carrying one hundred dollar bill.

How would you enforce BoB on a 14-16hr ULH when most pax don't have much cash or credit cards. Buying food at terminal is not a viable option at a congested hub like DXB, assuming EK flyers are smart enough to buy and catch connection.

This will cause riots and apart from technical, medical diversions there will be food related diversions.