EK and the Rolls engines

[RoyalEnfield]

Pretty interesting.

Emirates Says Rolls-Royce?s A380 Engines Not Up to Standard - Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-18/emirates-says-rolls-royce-a380-engines-not-up-to-agreed-standard)

[777boyindubai]

I wonder how much Timi's Knighthood will cost EK?

[TURIN]

Is the RR engine for Emirates' fleet of A380s different to all the other RR engines on the A380? :hmm:

[fatbus]

Sounds like a delay tactic.

[natops]

@fatbus I agree

[notapilot15]

I wonder how much Timi's Knighthood will cost EK?
I would say north of $6B/yr

Marketing - $3B/yr
20 x A380 wings
50 x Trent 900s
Repatriated expat income

[TwinJock]

Emirates switched supplier on the understanding that Rolls would help develop an upgraded and re-engined “Neo” version to help pare operating costs and extend the model’s lifespan.

Another gamble by TC that will cost them dearly.......

[glofish]

4 engine, 4 struts, 3 spools ....... all fascinating, but not economic

The bedouin father telling his son:
"Your 8 cylinder Stretch-Limo is beautiful, but useless. People book it for peanuts, drive around aimlessly and only get drunk at the bar. Look at my tractor in contrast, only 4 cylinders, but it produces food on the table."
"You're so right father" the bedouin's son replied and went out to buy 5 even more useless 8 cylinder Ford 150's (seemingly the new ME standard .... :ugh::ugh::ugh: ).

[777boyindubai]

Timi got his gong in Jan 2014 for “services to British prosperity and to the aviation industry”.

Rolls (who make crap engines) won the EK contract in April 2015

Go figure....

[P7xkk]

Matey peeps, the problem is that EK ORDERED another 50 a/c. The first tranche of are 510t variants, for which the good old T900 can produce reliable oomph @72k lbs.
The remainder of the ORDER are 575t a/c, and when you turn up the wick on the T900 to 77k lbs of oomph, longevity on-wing is somewhat reduced.
Will RR fix the issue? Who knows. Will any fix be quick in coming? Likely not.
When i say ordered, i mean firm orders, not options.
How to get out of that pickle? Well, who knows.

[Dropp the Pilot]

Is it possible Sir T finally figured out what every other airline executive already knew: in order for the A380 to be profitable the engines would need to run on water not jet fuel? In that case the RR would certainly be unsatisfactory.

He's a little late to the party judging by the order book.

[Emma Royds]

Daily Telegraph - Fresh allegations Rolls-Royce was involved in corruption to land contracts (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/10/31/fresh-allegations-rolls-royce-was-involved-in-corruption-to-land/)

It would sadly seem as if the glory days for RR are history.

[TURIN]

Rolls (who make crap engines)

Bit like proon keyboard warriors who make unsubstantiated carp remarks.

[pax britanica]

Rolls make crap engines-true sometimes they have done (though its harsh word to use) same as GE and PW have at times made engines that were well below par . not unknown in highly specialised high tech industries where pushing the envelope is standard modus operandi.

And as for RR bribing people shurely not, they are British and only foreigners do that sort of thing.....

[PGA]

Rumour has it outstation engineering training courses are cancelled.

Don't think we'll see the RR engines soon if none of the outstations are properly equipped to handle them.

[Eau de Boeing]

There's a fine example of RR engineering parked outside the hangar at the moment. SQ 380 had an engine failure and dived into Dubai.

[halas]

Have a look ar what ANA are doing with their RR engines on the Nightmare-liner.

halas

[notapilot15]

And as for RR bribing people shurely not, they are British and only foreigners do that sort of thing.....

I am sorry, could you elaborate on this.

This is from Guardian/BBC investigation

Rolls-Royce plc, Britain’s leading manufacturing multinational, hired a network of agents to help it land lucrative contracts in at least 12 different countries around the world, sometimes allegedly using bribes.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/oct/31/rolls-royce-middlemen-may-have-used-bribes-to-land-major-contracts

Talking tough and having an SFO doesn't imply British are not into giving bribes.

There are two clear examples of involvement with one country.

Augusta Westland was caught bribing and when India cancelled the AW101 order. Am I wrong? Should we blame it on Italians.

RR returned illegal agent commission to Hindustan Aeronautics Limited to save the deal, because standing tall with tight lips didn't work with AW101 deal.

[White Knight]

Quote:
Originally Posted by pax britanica View Post
And as for RR bribing people shurely not, they are British and only foreigners do that sort of thing.....
I am sorry, could you elaborate on this.

Woooossshhhh. Guess that went over your head there!

[notapilot15]

Sorry if I missed the sarcasm.

BTW looks like hounds are unleashed on Airbus. This is going to be an Airbus issue not RR issue. Troll Army claiming entire Airbus WB strategy is flawed!!

Do EK really need 77k lbs thrust? Their flights are feather light.

[donpizmeov]

You are freaking clueless NAP15

[fatbus]

He's just anti Airbus

[notapilot15]

Rather than blaming the messenger, you should blame the analyst.

A380neo Dead. A350-1000 Battered By 777X. Where Next For Airbus? Dithering Widebody Strategy? ? StrategicAero Research (http://www.strategicaeroresearch.com/2016/12/02/a380neo-777x-a350/)

He wouldn't be writing this without any motive.

[nolimitholdem]

In a culture steeped in face-saving, Rolls-Royce and Airbus' chronic over-promising and under-delivering offer EK the perfect opportunity to cancel their remaining orders.

Light loads now, higher fuel coming. Can practically word the press release myself.

But I will always fondly remember the shower. And Jennifer Anniston.

Sometimes both at once. :cool:

[bigdaviet]

Who has written that article and is there a date for it?

[donpizmeov]

It's that Indian Fellow that writes for the khaleej times.

[ExDubai]

In a culture steeped in face-saving, Rolls-Royce and Airbus' chronic over-promising and under-delivering offer EK the perfect opportunity to cancel their remaining orders.

Light loads now, higher fuel coming. Can practically word the press release myself.

But I will always fondly remember the shower. And Jennifer Anniston.

Sometimes both at once. :cool:
Did you introduce her to the "Mile high club" ;)

[notapilot15]

Don't know his origin or affiliation, but he is definitely part of beloved PR machine.

Some said he is a Boeing fanboy, but looking at his past penmanship like US3 should drop complaints against ME3, Indians should shutdown Air India and give all air traffic to ME3, Air India is not safe because their early build B788s having teething issues, mostly peddling Costa dwellers causes.

Hence my initial suspicion what Costa up to on A380.

[falconeasydriver]

In a way you have to think that with respect to the 380 project per se it's akin to the chickens finally coming home to roost. The airframe is very very popular with those who use it, me included, but economically it's a turkey and no matter how much little T bangs on about it in the media, nothing will change that reality.
RR build damn fine engines EVENTUALLY, look at the RB211, a bastard child that bankrupted the company that was eventually a world beater in so many respects, the Trent as an evolution of the 211 is a fine engine but it won't in its current evolution save the 380 from the beer can companies.
I've said it before plenty of times on here, the 380 is a niche airframe, it excels at congested hub airports which from an EK perspective excludes DXB, so we are talking about the usual suspects, LHR, LAX, JFK, FRA, CDG, BKK, SIN, SYD etc, everywhere else with perhaps the exception of AKL and MAN the aircraft is an ego trip masquerading as innovation.
If we concede that imitation is the greatest form of flattery in the airline game then the goat and the airline that must never be mentioned have looked at EKs model and improved upon it, particularly with using flexible and economic airframes on the right routes...380s included.
In conclusion the best thing that can be done is to use the 380 as intended, stop sending it to places where it loses money and most importantly exercise some capacity discipline by introducing airframes that suit the routes 350/787 etc etc.
Failing that you could come and work with me on my G650....but leave the 777/380 BS at the door please ����

[donpizmeov]

I think the reason that EK exists is sometimes forgotten. It was based on Singapore using SQ to grow their economy. The larger the airline, the more folks came and spent money, the more the economy grew. EK is Dubai's saviour from having no oil to sell. The government tells it how many people it needs through the door, and EK add the seats and try and work out where to send them. So it has done from the beginning. It's now a hard chore as competition is close at hand and most regular haunts are served several times a day.
Timbo has no other choice but use a 380. Not because he likes it, but because no other aeroplane can carry 500 to 600 pax. If he doesn't use the large aeroplane the pax numbers can not meet the target he has been set because of slot restrictions etc. Remember that only 25% of pax stay in Dubai. The more seats you bring into the hub, the more seats you need to take out. Without the 380 Timbos masters ain't going to be happy.

PS. Sign me up for the 650 please. I will provide beer.

[falconeasydriver]

Don, that's all very well, but when the parasite kills the host you are left with nothing. Singapore has always been very conservative in their targeted approach to their airline activities, they have on ever truly followed others and improved on the basic principle.
In EKs case its true to say that EK is the golden goose but hubris and greed have also ensured that those in a position to know better have over committed to a product that will kill the host faster than you can say metastasised.
Tim for all his bluster and analytical expertise has been seduced by the pot at the end of the rainbow, he along with his team have for some time believed their own cow manure, they have in part cracked the lid on the Pandora's box of getting it wrong. It will take significantly more effort to manoeuvre the titanic away from the iceberg, an effort which I think is both physically, emotionally and egotistically beyond Tim and his team of merry men.
The numbers of 380s and their variants that have been ordered are the physical manifestation of this arrogance an arrogance which if unchecked, will make EK another interesting footnote in the grave of aviation ventures.

[notapilot15]

Really Don, You are going to pin large orders of very large aircraft on the owners.:=

This is supposed to Timothy's brain child idea. Owners have no clue which plane will work, all they did is make some calls to neighborhood brothers for cheap finance and quid-pro-quo ASAs all over the world.

They could care less if Timmy bought just 100 x G650s and 100 x A319s to fly only premium pax and "make money". Funneling millions of backpackers thru a subsidized airline not adding anything to Dubai's economy, other than overloading sewer treatment systems.

[Dropp the Pilot]

It may be time for a forum which is exclusively for Gibberish speakers. The things you type give English monoglots a headache.

[glofish]

falcon:

Very eloquently and precisely put. :ok:

[notapilot15]

It may be time to recognize Kings English is not analogous with well run.

[nolimitholdem]

Well-said, falconeasydriver. I think you may have hit the bulls-eye.

If the master plan is based on Singapore, it flatters Dubai enormously to try and compare itself. But then, self-flattery IS where Dubai excels. I agree with notapilot - I doubt the rulers had much input to the selection of a/c type beyond "Oooh! OOh! That one's the biggest?! Pick that one!". Nope, this one's on Tim. He's taken all the credit, he can eat the blame too. Hope he chokes on it.

dropp...what are you on about? Post #29 has to be one of the more coherent statements on the situation that's been written. Do you need emojis? :ugh:

[The Zohan]

dropp...what are you on about? Post #29 has to be one of the more coherent statements on the situation that's been written. Do you need emojis?

nolimitholdem I think the comment was meant for nap15, aka Klunk,

tz

[notapilot15]

Now that we know there is no innovation in running this thing, it should be changed to innovations in astroturfing.

[4runner]

In my very humble opinion, the 380 is not a moneymaker for anyone. It will never be produced in numbers to make it viable for AirBus, it isn't versatile enough to be used for anything other than pax and it's dispatch reliability is less than 80%(according to a Boeing rep friend of mine supporting the 777 in the gulf). The only way to make money with it, is to be purchased at a low interest rate, crew it with slave labor and fill it with cheap gas. A 74 will still be operational 50 years from today, 380's will be beer cans.

[The Outlaw]

I fly the 380.

Your 777 rep friend is simply WRONG in his assertions about dispatch reliability of the 380 and I'd expect you to be able to see the difference, I can't even believe that you'd be uninformed enough to make the claim that you just did!

The 380 has a very good dispatch rate, actually the numbers put it effectively at par with the 777, but your Boeing rep friend doesn't want to hear that some euro built POS would be par to the "Almighty 'merican bilt wonder"!

Fact is however and where the 777 does perform is in the cost per passenger seat mile...the 380 can't touch it now, that I'll give you!

As for effectivity on sector and stage length etc...lets leave that to the highly educated, effective and visionary management of those who operate copious numbers of the aircraft. To quote Timmy "we simply do things better", how can you argue with that?

:confused:

[nolimitholdem]

@The Zohan - roger, got it.

"dispatch reliability is less than 80%" seems pretty fishy, but so does "effectively at par with the 777". I suspect the truth is somewhere in the middle. I don't doubt the reliability has improved since it's introduction. How could it do anything but improve from that tragicomedy?

Have any RR-engined ones been delivered?

[Capn Rex Havoc]

How could it do anything but improve from that tragicomedy?

Flown the 380 for over 5 years and only had one dispatch delay due technical.

Why is it only 777 blokes who dis the 380?

[4runner]

Sorry. Forgive me for not acknowledging Timmy and that you do it better. It won't happen again...

[trimotor]

Without being pro- or ant- either type..

Quite recently, I heard that the dispatch reliability for the 380 was touch over 1% less than the 777 (both in the very high 90's e,g. 99.7 for the 777 and a touch less for the 380), though the 380 was outside the contracted requirement.

TM

[nolimitholdem]

Relax, Capn Rex. Don't be so sensitive. The 787 had it's share of misfortune upon introduction as well. But my memory extends beyond five years to include somewhat amusing recollections of endless preflights when all one would hear on company were EK engineers telling some hapless 380 crew which circuit breakers to pull to try and get something working. Yes, it is more reliable now. Happy? Truthfully I couldn't care less about what anyone flies, I'm more interested in salting away enough coin to not have to fly either.

How about the question. Any RR-engined ones on the property yet?

[The Outlaw]

Tim the Enchanter

Summons fire without stick or tinder
From UK
Creates many fires

see video;

aZJZK6rzjns

[The Outlaw]

I found this truthful vignette about how the superintendents deal with issues:

FWBUl7oT9sA

[anson harris]

Yes! Boeing Vs Airbus! I knew it wouldn't take you guys long.

[The Outlaw]

Nah...we're going to turn it into a Monty Python fest. In some ways it matches the subject matter quite nicely!

[777boyindubai]

http://m.arabianbusiness.com/emirates-rolls-royce-said-resolve-a380-engine-issue-655661.html

[notapilot15]

So if understand Timmy's logic correctly, when demand is sluggish there is no urgent need for smaller planes, but keep adding lots of VLAs.

[notapilot15]

Airbus is delaying delivery of 12 A380s, by Reuters
(or)
Emirates is deferring delivery of 12 A380s by Flight Global and Bloomberg

Depends on which way one wants to read. There is enough spin built in for everyone.

I guess they are running out of parking space and tugs to move them around.

[777boyindubai]

Published with acknowledgement and respect to Reuters:

Airbus postpones deliveries of 12 A380 planes to Emirates Airline
Dec 27 Planemaker Airbus said on Tuesday it was postponing the delivery of 12 A380 planes to Emirates Airline over the next two years, and added it would step up cost cuts to minimise the impact of these delays.

Airbus, whose main rival is U.S group Boeing, said six deliveries of the A380 would be postponed from 2017 to 2018, with another six postponed from 2018 to 2019, following an agreement between Emirates and engine maker Rolls Royce and a consecutive deal between Airbus and Emirates.

"Airbus re-confirms the target to deliver around 12 A380s per year from 2018 as announced earlier in July 2016. Further fixed cost reduction initiatives will be accelerated so the impact on break-even in 2017 is minimal," the company said in a statement.

Emirates Airline had said in November it was having some unspecified technical issues with Rolls-Royce engines for A380 jets. (Reporting by Sudip Kar-Gupta; Editing by Ingrid Melander)

[nolimitholdem]

I think I called it first.

I wouldn't be surprised if those "delayed" deliveries quietly become "non"-deliveries. With the face-saving reason that RR couldn't deliver on their promised performance.

But thanks for the shower, it was nice.

[777boyindubai]

Nolimit, yes I do believe you did. Good call. I don't believe there is much wrong with the performance figures on the RR engines. It was just an excuse to find a face saving way to back out. As Timi says "We just do it better!" :E:E

[donpizmeov]

So only 24 new buses instead of the original 30 next year. Holy ****e, the sky really is falling.

[Monarch Man]

Don, Id be VERY surprised if those 24 deliveries take place in the 2017 timeframe, and if they even get close, they'll be replacements, this is the beginning of the story where the 380 is going to be deployed with a little more common sense.
Theres only so many places outside of India where you can fill a 2 class up :-)

[donpizmeov]

The 2 class doesn't go to India. It's normally pretty full anyway.

[notapilot15]

Six next year is plenty. It would be even better if no deliveries and network gets rationalized.

75% network wide PLF along with 90B/year non-rev ASKMs is not a joke. Doesn't matter what PR says.

[fatbus]

Instead of EK pilots always getting into an A vs B thing you might want to be concerned about job cuts. EK is not being dragged down by the 380.

[glofish]

Actually fatbus, no one mentioned a A vs B. It was only mentioned that there's a delay in taking dugongs in and i personally think this is a good measure. Because i do not agree with you, i think the too many dugongs are effectively taking EK down!

We are deploying too many wrong aircraft to wrong destinations (and i do not exclude the big tractor here). We are missing smaller metal and every sane professional should have realised by now, that the reasonable and profitable number of dugongs has been surpassed by far already.

I can only fathom CM saying to HH asking him if and how he could help him win the war:

"Jawohl Herr Reichsmarschall. Geben Sie mir eine Staffel Spitfire". ;)

(by Spits, you can insert 787 or 350, to mitigate the A vs B allegation .... )

[clear to land]

Well said glofish-whether it is a 350 or 787 is irrelevant - for a lot of the routes we fly what is needed is a smaller airframe than those we have now, and a cull of the numbers existing to bring more balance. The price of fuel is on the way up again, and when not used on the correct market then the 380 has to be a bigger cash drain than the 777. That is not rocket science.

[TwinJock]

Airbus postpones deliveries of 12 A380 planes to Emirates Airline!

Looks like STC won the first round.....

Airbus postpones deliveries of 12 A380 planes to Emirates Airline (http://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/27/airbus-postpones-deliveries-of-12-a380-planes-to-emirates-airline.html)

[BigGeordie]

Hmm, if only we could get hold of a load of 737-800s quickly. I wonder where we could find some at short notice? It would be ideal if they were at the same airport.

(Warning: this post contains heavy sarcasm)

[CautionShortRunway]

So only 24 new buses instead of the original 30 next year. Holy ****e, the sky really is falling.
"In total, Emirates has a further 56 A380s on order: 31 are to be delivered between now and 2019, with another 25 due to arrive in the 2020s to replace older ones nearing retirement."

The future of the A380 | The Economist (http://www.economist.com/news/business/21710850-three-years-ago-emirates-rescued-a380-aeroplane-its-own-problems-now-cast-doubt)

The average delivery rate for the next 3 years running was about 10 new A380's per year. Not 30 in the year 2017.

[crablab]

A 74 will still be operational 50 years from today, 380's will be beer cans.

Unlikely given that apparently 380s burn 20% less fuel per seat mile.
There are also some interesting dispatch stats: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus_A380#Entry_into_service

[donpizmeov]

Sorry shorty, I was being flippant. To be correct it will be 14 rather than 20 next year.

[donpizmeov]

Could they investigate the purchase of the bidding system too?....please!

[jack schidt]

Don, another valuable input and well qualified post!

Happy New Year to all, especially to the REGULARS here who endeavour to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing BUT the truth, honest!

Jack

[nolimitholdem]

I always look for the truth here. I mean, what could possibly be more valuable as a source for real, hard facts than

and internet forum.

about airlines.

in the Middle East.

All three renowned for their honesty, integrity, and transparency. :}

I should have added that I do not give two Shiites about how many A380's or Costa coffee cups EK orders or pretends to order or delays or whatever little game they want to play. Merely that I would be surprised if the same number as announced ever actually materializes. They have their excuses ready, so it's all good.

[Sheikh Your Bootie]

Well Habibis, the first Rolls Powered 380 has arrived.


Emirates A380 A6-EUM was delivered Finkenwerder – Dubai this evening as EK7380. The aircraft is the first A380 for Emirates with Rolls-Royce Trent 872 engines and is designated an A380-842.. This brings the A380 fleet up to 90 aircraft.

Just so you know :ok: Another one arrives today, I think....

SyB :zzz::zzz:

[glofish]

Halleluja, we are saved!

A happy new year to all of you. :ok:

[bvcu]

Well Habibis, the first Rolls Powered 380 has arrived.


Emirates A380 A6-EUM was delivered Finkenwerder – Dubai this evening as EK7380. The aircraft is the first A380 for Emirates with Rolls-Royce Trent 872 engines and is designated an A380-842.. This brings the A380 fleet up to 90 aircraft.

Just so you know :ok: Another one arrives today, I think....

SyB :zzz::zzz:
Could explain the engine issue !!! 872 is a 777 engine..........!!!!!!!!

[notapilot15]

Lets hope this is not the same minor 972B issue known to QF since 2010, at rated thrust engine needs off-wing mx after every 75 cycles. Go 8% de-rated or service at 75 cycles, win-win.

[champair79]

3rd one delivered yesterday. There seems to be a glut of deliveries before year-end.

"Emirates A380 A6-EUO was delivered Finkenwerder – Dubai this evening as EK7380. The aircraft is the third Emirates A380-842 with Rolls-Royce Trent 872 engines. This brings the A380 fleet up to 92 aircraft." (theeksource)

Does anyone know which routes they're going to be sent on (or will they just be treated the same as the EA A380s)?

Champ

[glofish]

3rd one delivered yesterday. There seems to be a glut of deliveries before year-end

It's called "organic growth"

Does anyone know which routes they're going to be sent on?

Most probably P7 via P, then P9, R, M, SA and SB, apron S, T, apron T with an eventual outing to the C stands

All dugong fans please excuse my sarcasm and accept my best wishes for 2017! :}

[TwinJock]

3rd one delivered yesterday. There seems to be a glut of deliveries before year-end.

Normally happens when no one else wants them, or have cancelled their oredrs....:ok:

[flapsd]

EK is not being dragged down by the 380.

I beg to differ Fatbus. While the 380 is not the only issue at EK right now, it certainly is one of the major ones. The entire industry has been saying for years now that there is no way anybody can operate 140 of these things profitably, and STC would seem to be the last to figure that out.

Apart from macroeconomic issues such as low oil prices depressing economies and incessant war and violence in the Middle East leading passengers to choose other routes around the globe, the main internal factor that's also dragging this airline to its knees is the astonishingly dysfunctional structure and company culture that has grown over the past decade. EK has one of most cumbersome management structures of any modern company...14 or so levels of manpower when most companies work on about seven.

In brief, here's some bullet points of why this company is in such a state;

1. Levels of management who do nothing but pass on decrees from their direct bosses.
2. Kiss up, kick down culture. No bad news is ever passed up. Only good news. Those below are held accountable for all the things that go wrong, while those that do bugger all claim the credit for all that goes right.
3. Levels of management that work three hours a day. If that.
4. "Compartmentalised" cost centres, where managers are only responsible for their own costs. A $10 saving in their department probably means $1 in their back pocket, but may indirectly cost another department $50. Because of the dysfunctional and multi-layered management structure, no-one picks up that overall inefficiency.
5. Out of control nepotism and cronyism. Rarely does the person who most deserves promotion get it.
6. Thousands of employees in positions they have no qualifications for. See point 5 above.
7. Departments that have grown out of control..more to ensure the head of department's position gets elevated to the next management level than because of a need for more manpower.
8. The operational side of the company has been stretched to and past breaking point for the past 5-10 years, but the support side (if you can call it support), has grown out of all proportion. The company is completely back office and management bloated, probably to the tune of 30%-50% more staff than is needed.
9. Inefficiencies and poor management were ignored while money was flowing in..now that the company is not performing, suddenly questions are being asked. (imagine how much money would have been made if the company was run efficiently for the past decade) Of course running with the "kick down" culture, the ones who do all the hard work will be the ones who suffer first.

This entire dysfunctional structure has been allowed to bloat itself silly by the current heads of the group. Just like they patted themselves on the back for the "marvellous performance of the management team" of the last few years, they also have to take complete responsibility for the current quagmire.

Change management means change the management. It's the only way to save this company.

[GoreTex]

Who will operate 140?

[sluggums]

Flapsd, spot on!

[Jumeirah James]

Good summary Flapsd.

[glofish]

Indeed, Flapsd, good review.

It's not new however, and had been demonstrated so many times over and over again, you would think that the lessons could have been learnt.

C. Parkinson described this stupid behaviour by publishing his law in ..... 1955 already!

But as with many things, the local forces in the ME are so full of themselves that they think they are the chosen ones to reinvent the wheel and, considering their talent, finally got a square one.

[trimotor]

The late, great, Sir MF said at a pilot meeting I attended in Oct 2000 that the danger was getting fat when things were good, and then being unwilling or unable to trim the excess when the time inevitably came.

It would seem he was right. And that EK is there now.

[Kobus Dune]

They postponed the delivery of those aircraft, simply because they couldn't afford them - they realised they would have been unable to pay the bills, simple. So they wait for better times.
In the meantime, the supply us with the usual excuses : stiff competition (how new) volatile dollar (as always) fuel price (always a good excuse) civil disturbances and revolutions, terrorism (was never there before ?) fog in Dubai (easy)
Just strange they didn't mention the burned airframe after a "landing operational incident" - somebody will have to pay for it ...

[fliion]

So EK 521 wasn't insured?

[donpizmeov]

I think people are becoming dumber after reading the ****e on this thread Fliion.

[Kobus Dune]

So EK 521 wasn't insured?

If insurance companies are not happy with what they find, guess who will have to pay ...

[fliion]

If Allianz set aside $300m for the Germanwings crash - and he intentionally put it in the ground - you would expect EK have got this covered.

Yet to meet an insurance Co "happy" with a claim.

But you're the expert it would appear...keep us posted.

👍

[ExDubai]

They postponed the delivery of those aircraft, simply because they couldn't afford them - they realised they would have been unable to pay the bills, simple. So they wait for better times.
In the meantime, the supply us with the usual excuses : stiff competition (how new) volatile dollar (as always) fuel price (always a good excuse) civil disturbances and revolutions, terrorism (was never there before ?) fog in Dubai (easy)
Just strange they didn't mention the burned airframe after a "landing operational incident" - somebody will have to pay for it ...
Why couldn't EK afford them? Any inside information from the finance guys?
In the current climate, those airframes are not needed. And it would be a poblem to find enough crews to bring them in the air.

[notapilot15]

Why couldn't EK afford them? Any inside information from the finance guys?
In the current climate, those airframes are not needed. And it would be a poblem to find enough crews to bring them in the air.
There is a FT member spot on with financial predictions so far. Future sale and lease back transactions are going to be difficult with both plane types. Though global financiers are loaded with cash, world wide rates are low, something to do with less oil money in the region, EK being highly leveraged and resale market potential and prices.

EK521 may increase insurance/reinsurance rates but will have no impact on lease rates.

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On a general note nitpicking and constant application of skill worth less than free app/browser extension is getting tired.

[ExDubai]

@Notapilot I agree that the future leasing conditions for both types might change because of the difficult market situation. But stating EK couldn't afford them isn't the truth.

[Dropp the Pilot]

Thanks ExD -

You appear to be able to translate Gibberish into English. Could you apply your skills and tell the rest of the forum what this one means?

On a general note nitpicking and constant application of skill worth less than free app/browser extension is getting tired.

Thanks

[DADDY-OH!]

Wasn't the aircraft in the EK521 crash a leased aircraft from GECAS?