Chinook ZA672 crash in 1988

[Pelomino]

Hi all!


For our new small museum (www.vdlgt.de (http://www.vdlgt.de/)) at the former RAF Gütersloh we are preparing an roll of honour for the Gütersloh pilots and crews that lost their lives during RAF times. Can anybody tell me the ranks and names of the crew of Chinook HC.1 ZA672/BH, which lost their lives in the tragic accident during ILA´88 at Hannover-Lagenhagen on May 6th 1988?


Thank you very much for your help!


Pelomino

[Old-Duffer]

Fg Off Philip Anthony BREWER 22
Fg Off James Stewart MCMENEMY 23
Sgt Glyn JONES 22 doi 25 May

They are commemorated at the Armed Forces Memorial Alrewas, St Clement Danes Church London and the Support Helicopter Memorial at Odiham

Old Duffer

[Pelomino]

Thank you very much, Old Duffer!

[MPN11]

Oh, Lord, all so young. What a tragedy.

[Cows getting bigger]

A sad day for 18 Sqn. Phil was my neighbour in the Mess and Jim was one of those positively infectious characters. Not long before, he had waltzed into the bar having just walked away from a pretty nasty wire strike near Paderborn; "That's my one brush with death."

The memories fade but I recollect that the flying display crew (ZA 672 was for static) witnessed the whole event from their dispersal. There was some fantastic leadership from the aircraft commander, corralling all 18 Sqn personnel and bring them back home that same evening.

Looking back, the accident was undoubtedly avoidable and continues to provide an excellent lesson in Swiss Cheese. http://www.ukserials.com/pdflosses/maas_19880506_za672.pdf

[diginagain]

Oh, Lord, all so young. What a tragedy.
A truly horrific accident.

[MPN11]

A truly horrific accident.Yes indeed ... in a bloody taxying accudent, at low speed. How awful.

[Haraka]

Without wishing to trivialise a tragic accident. Do note that ( when I left anyway) taxiing time wasn't counted in your Military flying logbook.

[FixClrEnt]

The RAF have lost quite a few Chinooks, but this must indeed be one of the most horrific accidents. It all goes to show the amount of energy in the transmission and rotors of a stationary helo, especially the chinook. Almost unbelievable that, despite being marshalled, they hit the walkway.

I guess the fire was made so much worse with the upright fuselage acting as a chimney. One wonders how the pilot managed to survive if it took 35 min to put it out.

[KeyPilot]

I recently met a (now rather old) German civilian who witnessed this accident from close quarters. I had heard of it before, but just now read the BOI.

My main thoughts/questions are:
- salient lesson to all, in the huge inertia possessed in heavy helo (esp. Chinook) turbine/transmission systems
- the old BOI system and its focus on blame seems rather old-fashioned and out of step with current notions of safety best practice in aviation - I'm glad it has been modernised
- the Stn Cdr proposed to take a sympathetic line with the Captain, however he was overruled. Does anyone know what became of him? Did he recover fully from his injuries?

Lastly, and most importantly, what a terribly sad loss of young life. May they rest in peace.

[ShyTorque]

The captain had yet another lucky escape when he was involved in a microlight accident although he was seriously injured.

[Evalu8ter]

I taxied in a -47 at Hannover several years later and got an abysmal service. We were finally signalled to stop and a new marshaller arrived to complete the job. We eventually shut down and the ‘new’ marshaller appeared next to the cockpit window and apologised saying that the first guy had been sent for retraining. ‘Some of us have long memories’ he noted....

[Q-SKI]

Remember this awful occasion to well. I was a crewman on 230 who, along with my captain WG, was tasked to take senior officers from Gutersloh direct to Hannover just after the tragedy unfolded. We were met by a ground handler who tried to marshal us into a very tight parking slot to which I refused and we stopped well short. Subsequently, having paced the parking slot it was the right decision. A very sad note in the history of RAF Gutersloh

[capt tosspot]

I recently met a (now rather old) German civilian who witnessed this accident from close quarters. I had heard of it before, but just now read the BOI.

My main thoughts/questions are:
- salient lesson to all, in the huge inertia possessed in heavy helo (esp. Chinook) turbine/transmission systems
- the old BOI system and its focus on blame seems rather old-fashioned and out of step with current notions of safety best practice in aviation - I'm glad it has been modernised
- the Stn Cdr proposed to take a sympathetic line with the Captain, however he was overruled. Does anyone know what became of him? Did he recover fully from his injuries?

Lastly, and most importantly, what a terribly sad loss of young life. May they rest in peace.

- There were 3 marshallers out front plus a crewman. The polaroid sunglasses they wore (they were looking into the sinking sun at the time) made it almost impossible to clearly see the LH side of the rotor disc. The front disc actually passed below the walkway but about a metre into it. Thus, the marshallers and crew looking out the LH side probably thought all was clear. The rear rotor (higher than front) then hit and all hell broke loose. The Captain managed to stay conscious and despite only having use of his right hand (due to burning left side) freed himself of the harness and jettisoned the RH pilots door - although it did need a firm smack with his elbow. He then fell onto the remains of the airbridge which then collapsed and he fell a further 20' onto burning oil. Fortunately the German RFFS were spot on and banged him full of morphine and chucked water over the burning bits. After a few weeks in the burns unit at Hannover and a stay in the military hospital at Hameln the Captain was posted to HSU while the BOI went on. He left in Feb 89 (Short Service time up) got CAA FW and rotary licences and flew Citation + Helos for a millionaire in S Ireland, then was trial pilot at Police unit in Northumbria, becoming Chief Pilot / TRE/TRI at the largest Unit outside of the Met - NEASU - flying police AS355, 135 and BN2 Islander. After 14 yrs was headhunted to start air ambulance operations in Northumbria, Cumbria and Teesside flying BO105, 355, and 365N. Subsequently trained police pilots and crews in the UAE on Bell 412 and then spent 6 yrs setting up AOC operation on the Black Sea dealing in oil and gas using Bell 429, AW139 and H155s. Now happily retired, but always remembering the lovely friends he lost that day.

[capt tosspot]

Engineering bodge in the T tail attachment. Dyn Aero had a set of old horizontal tails to fit onto the new model fin, so bodged a fit. The part should have lasted 2000 hrs and was only 42 hrs when it snapped. AC was at 800' at the time. 5 years of litigation ensued with every court finding 100% for the claimants. On final day when damages were awarded, Dyn Aero declared bankruptcy. It was found that they had spent the previous 4 years breaking the company up and funnelling monies elsewhere. Under French law the state had prior claim on what was left.

Note Dyn Aero had 3 tails snap off, but as those accidents were due to engine failure and stalling, the tail attachments were thought to have failed due to impact damage, whereas in retrospect it would appear that they failed because of this same bodge mod.

[H Peacock]

This tragedy happened before I joined the rotary world.

Marshaller(s) or not, taxiing a helicopter into a solid structure in peacetime/daylight should be totally avoidable. Clearly not a deliberate act, but no wonder the pilot was found culpable!

[Diff Tail Shim]

A sad day for 18 Sqn. Phil was my neighbour in the Mess and Jim was one of those positively infectious characters. Not long before, he had waltzed into the bar having just walked away from a pretty nasty wire strike near Paderborn; "That's my one brush with death."

The memories fade but I recollect that the flying display crew (ZA 672 was for static) witnessed the whole event from their dispersal. There was some fantastic leadership from the aircraft commander, corralling all 18 Sqn personnel and bring them back home that same evening.

Looking back, the accident was undoubtedly avoidable and continues to provide an excellent lesson in Swiss Cheese. http://www.ukserials.com/pdflosses/maas_19880506_za672.pdf
I did see the wirestrike aircraft as was meant to be on the Cat 3 team from 431 that came up to Gutesloh to reskin the airframe as it had huge gashes on one side. I also saw the Hanover hull on its recovery to Bruggen. I had heard at the time one aircrew killed in the latter had been flying the former. Had a UH60 out in Basrah that had a rotor strike against one of the lightning stanchions during my time there. We were picking up bits of carbon for days afterwards. The crew had declined RAF marshallers. They were not given the opportunity next time they requested to come in. That was interesting having 3 to handle by myself.

[SASless]

Taxi into something in the broad daylight......it can be done with the Marshaler standing by the Light Pole.

The forward blades chopped the wooden pole off about six inches above his outstretched arm!

It happened at Tay Ninh Airfield in Vietnam.....the marshaler....Crew Chief of the Aircraft. involved was busy getting dirt out of his eyes.....and was momentarily distracted....and the Pilot did not realize it.

It makes for one hell of a story when we have unit reunions.

The Pilot is very short....and the Crew Chief is very tall.....hearing the yarn from the two perspectives is especially entertaining.

Fortunately no one was hurt....but the Crew Chief probably needed a change of underwear.

[MightyGem]

a stay in the military hospital at Hameln
No BMH at Hameln. Must have been Rinteln.

[langleybaston]

Yes I have suffered twice at the hands of BMH Rinteln, and my wife has given birth there once.

[spab]

hi guys
This was such a tragic accident and feel for those lost,,,,,,
My partners uncle was aboard and lost his life at such a young age,,,,she was only 7 at the time and has such fond memories of the little time they had,,,always adored an still missed more then ever,,,and he was the uncle she looked forward to seeing him on his leave,,he always made her smile and made time to be silly,,,,,with it coming upto the 25th anniversary this yr,,,,I want to do something special for someone so special who deserves the world,,,,and I want to do something so special that she dosent see it coming as totally unexpected an she dosnt think i will do something like this or know to as me be together 6yrs not long,,,so want to suprise her with a once in lifetime memory which will give her a positive outcome to such a tragic event,,,,,and I know this would mean the world to her and its been part of her plans for many yrs to go over to Hannover but just never had the time,,,,,,but Ive just been looking into doing something speical an never realised it was the 25th anniversary this yr,,,,,and her uncle god bless him Fg Off James Stewart MCMENENMY was someone so special to her and his sadly missed,,,,
So just trying to see if these is plans yourside for remembering this event,,, an if so could you please keep me informed and I will do all I can my end to be there this may to share an give something back for all she does for everyone around bless her,,,,,

[spab]

Fg Off Philip Anthony BREWER 22
Fg Off James Stewart MCMENEMY 23
Sgt Glyn JONES 22 doi 25 May

They are commemorated at the Armed Forces Memorial Alrewas, St Clement Danes Church London and the Support Helicopter Memorial at Odiham

Old Duffer
did you know any on board