At least 19 dead in helicopter crash in Siberia

[Old Farang]

At least 19 dead in helicopter crash in Siberia

At least 19 dead in helicopter crash in Siberia | Bangkok Post: news (http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/world/1116729/at-least-19-dead-in-helicopter-crash-in-siberia)

MOSCOW - At least 19 people were killed when a helicopter crashed in northwestern Siberia, Russia's Investigative Committee said Saturday.

Investigators said in a statement that an Mi-8 helicopter carrying 22 people had crashed Friday night outside the city of Novy Urengoy and that "19 people have died from multiple injuries at the scene, according to preliminary data."

[Geoffersincornwall]

Not surprised. When I flew on an Mi8 in northern Siberia a few years back the safety focus was non existent. It was an oil support flight taking the guys who were starting their spell on site and each had a (30kg?) kit bag. 18 such kit bags were just stacked in a pile in the middle of the cabin with the pax on 'troop seats' along each side. This early model Mi8 had just one emergency exit at the front LHS and all the windows were small portholes - too small for any grown-up to escape. There was once a fire axe beside a 'cut-here' window on the opposite side to the emergency exit but to prevent any inappropriate use by a 'hijacker' it was removed to the cockpit where the three-man crew sat behind a locked cockpit door.

Joint venture operations saw an improved Mi17 version which was much better but I can't imagine that these are in general use even today.

I have always wondered about the Mi8 design concept that did not favour crash proof fuel tanks. The external 'drop tanks' were made of wafer thin aluminium and every crash of an Mi8 that I have examined seems to involve a post crash fire that consumes the airframe.

G.

[Fareastdriver]

From what I have heard about Trans Siberia helicopter trips they have a medic at the check in to breathalyse the crew------------------and the next one.

[Aesir]

Well this one did not burn.

http://cdn.mbl.is/frimg/9/17/917613.jpg

[Geoffersincornwall]

Probably ran out of fuel.......

G.

[SweetComanche]

Not surprised. When I flew on an Mi8 in northern Siberia a few years back the safety focus was non existent.
G.

Sad to see that the story hasn't changed much from the soviet era, when old passenger Tupolev used to show up in Europe with exposed radials, and nobody seemed to care.

[jimf671]

During the Super Puma condemnation-festival of 2012/2013, I did some internet research to establish the safety record of other medium/large rotorcraft. Most comparable aircraft with a substantial period in service had been involved in a hundred or two hundred accidents and several hundred people had died.

In the case of the Mi-8 family, there was a record of over 700 accidents, though there were believed to be hundreds more. I lost count of the fatalities at around 2500 and decided that the task was too large. 108 people are believed to have died in them in the first 6 months of 2013 alone.

However, the Mi-8 suffers from the Super Puma Effect. The what? The Super Puma Effect is where if you do all the work then you have all the accidents. Although a significant portion of Mi-8 accidents appear to result from poor operating practices in territories with undeveloped aviation regulation, the fact that it is the world's most prolific helicopter means that it always had a good chance of having the most accidents. I have seen sources quoting figures from 12,000 to 17,000 aircraft produced.

[nowherespecial]

Looking at how intact this ac is, relatively, I'm surprised no one at all survived. Don't get me wrong, I'm not volunteering to do a crash test simulation but the odds of such an intact ac and zero survivors seems wrong to me? I read that someone said they couldn't get out but how did this result in fatalities as there seems to be no fire? Or am I just completely missing something?

I'm with Jim 100% on the accident stats FWIW.

[Self loading bear]

From a Dutch News website I understand 3 out of 22 have survived. The helicopter would be from a Rosneft related company.
SLB

[Old Farang]

AAP on October 23, 2016, 6:09 am

Three crew members and 16 passengers died when the Russian-made Mi-8 helicopter came down late on Friday in adverse weather conditions.

Two survivors were injured and a third unscathed, TASS news agency reported, citing a regional health official.

The helicopter was carrying employees of a contractor from oil major Rosneft's Suzun oilfield, part of the Vankor deposit, Russia's northernmost onshore oil production project.

[Geoffersincornwall]

JIM
One very interesting statistic to derive from the data would be the ratio of fatalities to the number of accidents. This would give an indication of 'survivability'. Does the Super Puma protect its passengers better or worse than the Mi8?

G.

[Vertical Freedom]

Rest in Peace ����

[mickjoebill]

Looking at how intact this ac is, relatively, I'm surprised no one at all survived.


In this crash in 2010 of an ec 130 it spun from a 220ft hover to the beach below in 6 seconds.
No fire, latest Eurocopter seats, the rear cabin intact, the front windscreen taken out by the rotors, all but one still strapped in.
Yet 4 of 5 occupants were killed on impact. Vertical impact of between 14G-20G.
http://translate.google.com/translate?depth=1&hl=en&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dec%2B130B4%2BRotterdam%2BMaasvlakte%26hl%3Den-au&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=nl&u=http://www.onderzoeksraad.nl/uploads/phase-docs/72/050701805f6a2010042-ph-ecj-nl.pdf

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=75301
http://static0.persgroep.net/parool/image/da1efe97-a1db-41e2-9ab0-ef28979ffa34?width=664&height=374

Mickjoebill

[Mee3]

Stop your cold war fear. The Mi-8 series has an escape door above cockpit, one jettison window for each pilot, two build onto the clamshell door, one enlarged window behind pilot and one on the floor panel. One can argue, it has more options and more directions than most western designs.

Plus, on contrary it rarely burn up after a crash. Passengers are usually killed because the operator almost never op for crashworthy seats on these Russian flying truck.

[Geoffersincornwall]

Mee3 - only if you are talking about the recently produced Mi8's. The one I flew in was just how I described and if the cockpit door is locked on the inside the exits inside are as much use as a trap-door in a canoe.

G. :-)

[jimf671]

I had a quick look at that Geoffers. The Mi-8 has a higher number of fatalities per accident than the 225 or the 61. Things like the proportion of warlike operations and arctic environment operations might have a serious effect on that number. Starts getting like a degree thesis to filter that out. For instance, the Blackhawk number looks really bad but that's largely due to war and counter-insurgency ops.

[Fareastdriver]

The Indian and Chinese pilots I have known that have flown the Mi 8 are generally very happy with the aircraft. However the Far East is littered with Russian equipment that is either waiting or being cannibalised for spares. For Western commercial operations their TBOs are a joke.

[Geoffersincornwall]

The Russians I met told me that they were struggling to deal with cowboy workshops in China and elsewhere knocking out tail rotor blades and other parts for the Mi8. Not good.

Jim - Thanks for looking at those numbers. I think they give a rough indication of the truth of the matter. Having 12 inch portholes for windows was never going to help.

G

[AnFI]

it's a different philosophy, and it has been pretty succesful

Americans hire m17s because they are cost effective

[212man]

The Interstate Aviation Committee (IAC) - official website (http://mak-iac.org/en/rassledovaniya/mi-8-ra-22869-21-10-2016)

[nowherespecial]

Thanks everyone for the info on the survivors, good to hear. I hope they recover well.

212 - interesting statements: final fuel warning light and then a subsequent 14 mins of erratic flying with final impact with engines still running at speed.