HR pilots resigning?

[fliion]

Word is HR pilot resignations looming due latest.

Can't imagine how one could continue to fly amongst their colleagues while selling the A scale product on a B scale package.

Bravo to those who I have heard are voting with their feet.

To the ones who stay and support it....might be some interesting conversations down route

[kingpost]

That's what happens when you 'test' the market, it can have an effect either way!!!

[sluggums]

HR Pilots? What's them? Just curious.

[777-200LR]

I think it's the pilots involved in recruitment they are speaking of

[thatwasclose]

Filion,
The pilots involved in recruitment are not selling anything . They are accessing candidates. The marketing of the job is not theirs to do .

[thatwasclose]

And actually Filion I just realized that at the end of your message there is a tone of a threat . Firstly as stated you do not actually know what the recruitment pilots do . Secondly how many times have you gone to see management to complain about what is happening . How many emails have you sent ? Thirdly, the very fact that all of us are doing nothing as we have colleges who are being downgraded to F/O for no reason , not even allowed to come to 777speaks volumes . All of us on the line have done nothing to help them . How many of us not effected have emailed concerned and popped into the office to voice concern .? How many of us called in sick to protest ?
A B scale is wrong . But get your facts right before you threaten a fellow college . Come to think of it you better call in sick and see a doctor because I am not sure I want someone so presumptive , so angry and belligerent in the cockpit .

[donpizmeov]

fliion,

If you do mean the recruiting pilots I think its a bit unfair to pass any of the blame onto them. They have no vote nor say on what is offered. It is, however, important that some pilot input is kept in the recruiting process. To have the blunties (affectionate term to describe non aviators :) ) have full control of the process aint gonna end well.

[CamelRustler]

Don,
I think we lost when MK left. Recruitment couldn't even keep their office. They are being stripped of any authority and being forced to basically do the bidding of HR and one other individual. There is a reason the recruitment department is remaining headless. Which makes the whole process much more dangerous for us still holding the line.

[donpizmeov]

I hear ya CR.

[fliion]

And actually Filion I just realized that at the end of your message there is a tone of a threat . Firstly as stated you do not actually know what the recruitment pilots do . Secondly how many times have you gone to see management to complain about what is happening . How many emails have you sent ? Thirdly, the very fact that all of us are doing nothing as we have colleges who are being downgraded to F/O for no reason , not even allowed to come to 777speaks volumes . All of us on the line have done nothing to help them . How many of us not effected have emailed concerned and popped into the office to voice concern .? How many of us called in sick to protest ?
A B scale is wrong . But get your facts right before you threaten a fellow college . Come to think of it you better call in sick and see a doctor because I am not sure I want someone so presumptive , so angry and belligerent in the cockpit .

TWC

Chill your beans on 'threat', did nothing of the sort , read again slowly.

The interesting convo down route is the same situ I have gone through with pilots of other airlines when I have had to defend why I stay. It is no different than than what a recruitment pilot would also be asked by colleagues.

As to we have all done "nothing" . Respectfully disagree. I think a lot of people have done the little things that they can without mentioning specifics.

Up to and including leaving an additional role, beyond getting from A to B - which is what I'm hearing is going to happen in recruitment.

I say again bravo.

[harry the cod]

Recruitment pilots do play a vital role and I would agree that in normal conditions, needed for hands on feedback to future candidates. There are some great guys on the team and they do a commendable job.

However, regardless of what some may say, they are 'recruiting' for the Company and by the very nature of that requirement, have to place an element of positivity on that process. They are 'selling' the product. They represent that product and are part of the brand. If they can, hand on heart, recommend people to join, with the current debacle of specific age requirements for command, hours, new salary scales and other policies that change weekly, they either have little integrity or are blind to the deteriorating circumstances around them.

If they have even a modicum of integrity, then they should resign. It really is as simple as that. They're not resigning from the Company. That would send a very clear message to those above that enough really is enough. If they stay, they are in effect endorsing the current policy. We are sold the message that Emirates is a career airline, part of Dubai culture and somewhere to work and live. It's a lifestyle experience. Well, with the latest policy, that negates that idea in one single move. We have now become a 'contract' job but without the other benefits. Yet! So, where as a Company do we draw the line? What if they don't get sufficient responses? Perhaps another 5000dhs for a scale 3 along with month off, month on? There is absolutely nothing to stop them doing so. This is, without doubt, the thin edge of the wedge and everybody should write in and express their disagreement with the policy.

Anyway, I'm sure there will be plenty of new pilots on scale 2 who can fulfil the role of recruitment pilot.....to attract those that will be joining next year on scale 3! :mad:

Harry

[glofish]

Well said, Harry.

Any pilot volunteering to do anything more than his core job, especially in attracting new pilots, is effectively complice to the company and its culture. This includes trainers.

This could be a nice thing to say about colleagues, today it's not.

[777boyindubai]

The HR pilots take the coin. Hence they have to sell the product and the weekly changes. Harry and Flion are on the money here. There are certainly some good guys in recruitment, however, their integrity WILL be questioned if the stay.

[Hook]

Most of the recruitment pilots are guys without a current medical. If they resign from recruitment, they're out of a job.

[harry the cod]

Hook

Fair point.

However, if they have indeed lost their licence, the Company would pay out. Only in circumstances where there is no clear permanent revoking of their licence is it prudent to remain gainfully employed. I accept that it's easy to be morally judgemental when one is fortunate enough to still be flying.

For the line pilots though, my opinion remains unchanged.

Harry

[thatwasclose]

Gentlemen ,

I will say again that recruitment pilots do not sell the company . It's not their job . They access the suitability of a candidate in accordance with the guidelines determined by the company . But if you have decided that is not the case then so be it . As far as the threat , I recant . Did sound a little threatening though . As an organization we are in a mess . People would be mad to come here but everyone always seems to think the grass is greener .

[fliion]

Gentlemen ,

I will say again that recruitment pilots do not sell the company . It's not their job . They access the suitability of a candidate in accordance with the guidelines determined by the company . But if you have decided that is not the case then so be it . As far as the threat , I recant . Did sound a little threatening though . As an organization we are in a mess . People would be mad to come here but everyone always seems to think the grass is greener .

Baloney.

They absolutely sell the company. Roadshows, Q & A throughout the assessment days. Of course they will spin it half full. Even I expect that.

What HR Dept would accept recruitment pilots who would do anything to undermine actually getting the numbers.

But the A scale has crossed the line and is beyond the pale.

Notwithstanding the medical guys, if you are in there interviewing guys who have never set foot on the property and know that you (the face of the Co.) are offering them more money than guys you work with & have been here years - you own it.

[Hook]

Since when does a Loss of Licence payout guarantee a good quality of life for ever? Are you seriously saying they should resign their jobs and go back home? Please, I expect better than that.

A lot of finger pointing going on here. Blaming the recruitment pilots. Glofish even blaming the trainers! And when you run out of people to blame, who next? Yourselves?
Glofish, you're flying for this company! You're also the management's servant and as 'bad' ( according to you) as anybody else......

[Jack D]

Part of the whole assessment process involves a simulator detail . The recruitment pilot & a Tre are present , the Tre, s assessment ((pass fail) is the overriding criteria
used to qualify the candidate for further consideration or not . As was mentioned almost all of the recruiment pilots have either lost or have their medical suspended , why shouldn't they have a job if they want it ? at a considerably lower salary than before I might add .Those that are still actively flying have quit the position some time ago as their conditions & promised terms were abused , so in effect this is old news .The recruitment Tre sells nothing , says little , & receives no extra pay above the regular Tre allowance .

[170to5]

I have to throw my hand in here and say that knowing several of the selection pilots, I can confirm that in true, time honored PPRuNe fashion, a lot of what is being written is simply wrong.

1) The selection team are all current on fleet. There are less than ten of them and all of them have current medicals, and are flying rosters.

2) They get a daily rate of pay for doing the selection.

3) They do the job as best they can to keep the quality of new joiners up, as difficult as that can be.

4) HR do the roadshows, not the selection team.

If they all resigned, who is to say that the company will simply cut the pilot's input into the recruitment process altogether? Remember Ansett? Think what you may think, but don't be so naive as to think that the company won't simply cut them out of the equation if they make some sort of stand...

[Jack D]

Really ? this is strange , none of the selection pilots, as opposed to the Tre,s , that I've come across are current on type due to medical suspension or loss . & there are about 10 of them . The few that were active pilots have mostly left , at least that's been my experience .
I thought I was giving the facts as I know them , wonder why I haven't come across any actively flying recruitment guys/girls for a long time in fact not since shortly after MK left ? I do know that Tre,s definitely receive no extra remuneration for recruitment duty . I standby to be corrected though , that's just been my experience & I do know 3 or 4 current guys who resigned from the recruitment post . Btw way I agree many "facts" written on Pprune are simply wrong , but not always .

[Talparc]

it's about the money, those recruitment specialists get paid around AED 5000 extra, and have some off day privilege. That's why they do the job.

[flyinthesky]

it's about the money, those recruitment specialists get paid around AED 5000 extra, and have some off day privilege. That's why they do the job.

Talparc, sorry but you are well wide of the mark! Selection pilots get a flat daily rate which is not 5k and they lost flight privileges a while ago. And they most certainly DO NOT get day off privileges.

But don't let the actual facts colour your story.

[glofish]

@ Hook:
You wrote:

A lot of finger pointing going on here. Blaming the recruitment pilots. Glofish even blaming the trainers! And when you run out of people to blame, who next? Yourselves?
Glofish, you're flying for this company! You're also the management's servant and as 'bad' ( according to you) as anybody else......

There is a distinct difference between just working for an unfair outfit and helping it with additional service.

Recruiters and trainers get more money and benefits (that simple soldiers can’t get) for their additional work. That’s fair enough and I have never criticised it until they complained of not getting enough of the ‘more’ (that would be to even more detriment of the soldiers), or when they start being complice to double standards and complain about it at the same time (see contributions 194 + 197 on the 330/340 transfer policy thread).

You can either help them with their biased policies and by that can no longer deny complicity, or stick to your simple working contract that you need to fulfill by law. Only then you can complain if this contract is being ridiculised by a B scale for newbees. Some need food on the table and have no big alternative at the moment (most are working on it though), no one desperately needs additional benefits. There is a difference. I could have seen myself join the recruitment or training team earlier (I never did though), nothing wrong with that, but the moment I would feel complice to such abysmal and unfair new shenanigans that shaft myself as well, I would resign for this additional service the very first moment.

[fatbus]

I have seen at least 5 operational TREs doing assessment in the last couple of months. All of them love it ! Easy sim credit. Counts as a Sim/ ground duty as a TRE. Ie total of 8 ( on a month)

[donpizmeov]

Fellas I think you are looking in the wrong place to find blame.
No one in flight Ops has any say in EK. Money pinching blunties know all and make all decisions. To have the token pilots removed from the equation is not going to solve anything nor teach anyone any lessons. It does not work that way here. The only thing that will be achieved is the only voices of reason, being these pilots, will be removed from the office. More back patting and high fives from blunties involved.

[fatbus]

Don is correct! Bean counters/ costa dwellers rum the airline ( in this case , into the ground!)

[fliion]

Don

No one is blaming any pilot in recruitment for this mess. In fact the thread was started to pay a compliment.

None of us here are pure.

But I think the message is - there's a difference between a stripper and a whore.

[donpizmeov]

Fair cop Gov.

[airbus757]

@ Hook:
You wrote:



There is a distinct difference between just working for an unfair outfit and helping it with additional service.

Recruiters and trainers get more money and benefits (that simple soldiers can’t get) for their additional work. That’s fair enough and I have never criticised it until they complained of not getting enough of the ‘more’ (that would be to even more detriment of the soldiers), or when they start being complice to double standards and complain about it at the same time (see contributions 194 + 197 on the 330/340 transfer policy thread).

You can either help them with their biased policies and by that can no longer deny complicity, or stick to your simple working contract that you need to fulfill by law. Only then you can complain if this contract is being ridiculised by a B scale for newbees. Some need food on the table and have no big alternative at the moment (most are working on it though), no one desperately needs additional benefits. There is a difference. I could have seen myself join the recruitment or training team earlier (I never did though), nothing wrong with that, but the moment I would feel complice to such abysmal and unfair new shenanigans that shaft myself as well, I would resign for this additional service the very first moment.
Are you suggesting that someone else takes a cut in remuneration in a feeble attempt to pressure management into somehow improving your conditions of employment?

[glofish]

Just read my contribution again and try to comprehend it.
No hidden suggestions.

[airbus757]

Ok, and? Yes, no?