Odd things seen on the train

[tubby linton]

I was travelling on Beardie's trainset to Euston yesterday afternoon and as I got up from my seat to start walking towards the front of the train so that I could make my connection, I glanced at the passenger behind me and saw a very ,very senior RAF officer in uniform . I didn't think that sevice personnel were allowed out in uniform and given his rank why wasn't he travelling in First Class?

[Simplythebeast]

Probably a Walt. Why on Earth would a very very senior officer be travelling unaccompanied. How would he be able to find his way around?

[NutLoose]

I was going to say that, still he got a seat unlike some politicians, did you ask him if he was off to some fancy dress do?

[MPN11]

We've been allowed out in uniform for years now. Although a VSO in Economy is a bit rare!

[4mastacker]

Are you sure he wasn't an RAC patrolman who's lost his van?

[ChocksAwayChaps]

Was he clipping tickets?

[Sevarg]

Probably a Walt. Why on Earth would a very very senior officer be travelling unaccompanied. How would he be able to find his way around?
Why would anybody want to impersonate a VSO?

[Bob Viking]

If he was in first class someone would be on here to complain about the waste of taxpayers money. Damned if you do...
BV

[tubby linton]

Having done a bit of googling, I think that it was the Assistant Chief of the Air Staff. By a bit of judicious pre-booking first class tickets can be very cheap, and cheaper than a walk on standard fare.

[Melchett01]

Having done a bit of googling, I think that it was the Assistant Chief of the Air Staff. By a bit of judicious pre-booking first class tickets can be very cheap, and cheaper than a walk on standard fare.

I was going to be facetious and suggest politician or VSO when I saw the title, but fair play to him. Leadership by example, need more of it. That said, Bob is correct - it's largely a perception and image thing at heart. The rules say that First Class is now pretty much verboten, although I suspect that for VVSOs or on security grounds there may be exceptions. But the reason I cite image above all else is that IIRC, those same rules say First must be authorised by the someone equivalent to the PM or UN Sec Gen EVEN when CHEAPER than standard!

[tubby linton]

Fair play to him and I wish I had realised he was sat behind me as I would have enjoyed the opportunity for a professional chat to make the journey more tolerable.

[Rosevidney1]

Tolerable, Sir? Train journeys are meant to be stressful as an aid to character-building!

[Pontius Navigator]

Even when issued a cattle class ticket I upgraded to first. After all tjhere is no excuse for travelling below your pay grade.

[Wensleydale]

Perhaps he had just realised that he was responsible for RAF Training?

[Wensleydale]

....or being an ex-Vulcan man he had confused HS2 with H2S?

[Jimlad1]

Govt policy is very clear. No MOD/Mil/wider CS personnel, under any circumstances are to travel first class rail. If you do, then expect to face disciplinary action.

First Class rail travel as a 'perk' went nearly 10 years ago as one of the first cuts of austerity regime.

[Melchett01]

Govt policy is very clear. No MOD/Mil/wider CS personnel, under any circumstances are to travel first class rail. If you do, then expect to face disciplinary action.

First Class rail travel as a 'perk' went nearly 10 years ago as one of the first cuts of austerity regime.

Just seems a bit daft when you can get an offer that makes First cheaper than Standard. Also never understood why the MOD never leveraged purchasing power to do a deal that permitted use of rail cards giving 1/3 off.

[Jimlad1]

It can be cheaper on fixed trains, but that depends on VSO's diaries not overunning. Also never forget the Court of the Daily Mail...

[Basil]

I didn't think that sevice personnel were allowed out in uniform
Why not? If I were still in I'd be delighted to proudly walk around High Wycombe in uniform glaring at any beardy who eyeballed me.

p.s. Recently had RAF march through our town with bayonets fixed and band playing.
Although, to be honest, the only time I've seen an RAF bayonet draw blood was when a colleague, polishing his for parade*, fell off his bunk and gave himself a handsome duelling scar across the forehead.

* No sniggering at the back!

[rjtjrt]

Well done that VSO!

[Red Line Entry]

....or being an ex-Vulcan man he had confused HS2 with H2S?

The current ACAS has no Vulcan background, Wensleydale.

[SATCOS WHIPPING BOY]

Sometimes the regulations are stupid cases of "the computer says no".
As a civvie with a freedom to choose I often travel to London for various meetings; I travel 1st Class.

My colleague who works for the local government authority attends the same meeting. He travels 2nd class as that is their rules to save money. My ticket is often 10-15% cheaper than his and I get fed and watered; he claims additional expenses for his meal!
No matter how he protests to his bosses, it just falls on deaf ears.

[pr00ne]

Basil,

"I'd be delighted to proudly walk around High Wycombe in uniform glaring at any beardy who eyeballed me."


What have you got against the Navy?

[Krystal n chips]

About four years ago, I saw an uniformed Gp.Captain get on at Bristol Parkway, the station as we know being convenient for a well known M.o.D establishment and alight at Cheltenham.....cattle class.

That, and those lower down the food chain can always been seen in uniform at Motorway services, any day / time of the week.....invariably it has to be said in the queue for Mc Junk et al......so much for healthy eating then..;)

However, with regard to train travel, it's actually quite easy to ensure you make significant savings IF, you are in a position to book well in advance, are prepared to make some short term personal inconveniences to your journey and have a basic knowledge of the UK's rail network and geography for split ticketing along with being prepared to do some research as to times and routes.

As one passionately opposed to privatisation, it's nice to be able to play the TOC's at their own game and deprive them of revenue.

First is generally a waste of time / money on short journeys other than for a bit of ego massaging of course... but lets face it, £15 (in round figures) Crewe to Glasgow ( cattle ) represents far better value for money. That said, the best I've ever done was Aberdeen -Kings Cross.....£42 single First when it was ECML in public ownershio.

[teeteringhead]

It's all about appearances methinks. One has a mate at Leuchars (or whatever it's called now) who frequently needs to go to London.

Never mind the UN Sec Gen authorising 1st Class on the train, it needs God to authorise flying - although SqueezyJet is cheaper than (cattle class) train from Scotland to London. Go figure!

[Tankertrashnav]

The very first thread I ever started on PPRune was on the subject of wearing uniform in public. Living near Culdrose I see a lot of Navy personnel in uniform out and about in Helston. At the time I commented on the scruffiness of some of them, notably officers, the worst example being one chap emerging from his car in his flying suit, throwing a civvie hoodie on top of it and ambling off, hatless, down the street.

I'm very pleased to say that things have tightened up a lot, and I only ever see very smart ratings and officers when in the town now. The ladies in particular are always very well turned out and are a credit to their service, so credit where it is due. Mrs TTN has had to put a stop to my complimenting these ladies when I meet them in the aisles of Tesco, because she says it makes me look like a dirty old man :(

[onetrack]

You'd know if the gent was a Walt - he'd be the bloke wearing a chest full of mismatched, but beautifully polished, medals, as well as a fine military outfit.

[Wensleydale]

Quote:
....or being an ex-Vulcan man he had confused HS2 with H2S?

The current ACAS has no Vulcan background, Wensleydale.


Yes, but you don't have a joke without the Vulcan connection............

[Tankertrashnav]

Once again H2S = V Bomber = Vulcan :*

In fact the H2S equipped Victor K2 was in service till 1993, many years after the Vulcan left the service, post Falklands (558 had its H2S removed, I believe). So it would be at least plausible that the ACAS, who is an engineer who entered the service in 1988 might have had a Victor background, although in fact he was a Nimrod/Tornado man in the days when he was still getting his hands oily.

[MPN11]

A sign of the times when ACAS is an Eng :)

I can remember when a 2* Nav was a cause of comment!

[Basil]

Basil,

"I'd be delighted to proudly walk around High Wycombe in uniform glaring at any beardy who eyeballed me."


What have you got against the Navy?

Nothing; and I have to watch what I say about beards as well ;)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/Capn_Basil/Elders%20amp%20Fyffes%20poss%20SS%20Chicanoa%20Engine%20Room %20Ian%20Haldane%201963%20LR_zps37nyhzs3.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Capn_Basil/media/Elders%20amp%20Fyffes%20poss%20SS%20Chicanoa%20Engine%20Room %20Ian%20Haldane%201963%20LR_zps37nyhzs3.jpg.html)

Gawd! That was a lifetime ago :{

Mrs TTN has had to put a stop to my complimenting these ladies when I meet them in the aisles of Tesco, because she says it makes me look like a dirty old man
Guaranteed way to find your wife if you've lost her :E

[sycamore]

TTN,doubt ACAS ever got his hands oily...wouldn`t be able to get up the pole if he did....

[Umkubas]

It's all about appearances methinks. One has a mate at Leuchars (or whatever it's called now) who frequently needs to go to London.

Never mind the UN Sec Gen authorising 1st Class on the train, it needs God to authorise flying - although SqueezyJet is cheaper than (cattle class) from 2006train from Scotland to London. Go figure!
From a thread from 2006, a mentioned was made of 72 squadron log books.........did you serve with 72 Squadron and are you willing to share the information in your log books?

[triskele]

Basil, forgive the intrusion but is that a Doxford hiding behind?

[Basil]

Basil, forgive the intrusion but is that a Doxford hiding behind?
No, it's a Parsons geared steam turbine.
Controls are Ahead Valve, Astern Valve and Astern Shut Off Valve (Just to be on the safe side :))

IIRC, Fyffes SS Chicanoa on trip to/from Tiko, Cameroon.
Steam at 600psi superheated to 600F. Used to consider worst case scenario when the 12" steam main was bouncing around in its supports in an Atlantic storm :uhoh:

Used to be a requirement for steam engineers to spit if they inadvertently uttered the D***** word :E
Even when I was at sea, the Doxford was an old design but I loved how you could see the top pistons operating. I'd heard that, at low RPM, some young tearaways would try to sit on them.

[triskele]

Way too slim to be a steamy..

[langleybaston]

In the 1980s the CS [or at least the Met. Office MoD part of it] got knickers twisted with travel rules, as also did Rail with its pricing strategy.

I slaved under rules that demanded the smallest total outlay for, say, a day duty in London when based in Leeds. I hope memory serves correctly, but these days there are risks attached.

My very switched - on gopher did the homework and frequently bought me the following:

Car parking at Doncaster Station [living in Gainsboro, commuting daily to Leeds]
White Rose Pullman Doncaster to KX First Class, and return
Full English, plus newspaper
and Half day subsistence for lunch in town, usually liquid, with the balance paying for dinner on the train on the way north.

TOTAL LESS THAN CATTLE CLASS PLUS FULL DAY SUBSISTENCE.

Needless to say I rather looked forward to a summons to the Smoke.

Mad, my masters, mad

[MPN11]

Basil ... did you serve on Fyffes Cavina or Camito on the 50s/60s? We [family] emigrated and repatriated to/from Jamaica on them ;)

[SirToppamHat]

Everything's meant to be booked through Hogg-Robinson these days. When it works it's OK. Not good, not efficient, not easy and not cheap; just OK. Must book at least 2 hours before the trip, so you cannot book a Day Travel Card on the day because that 'started' at 0001 hours on the day (for example). System will allow one to book First Class, but all sorts of red lights go off and I am pretty sure the Command Accounts Team are personally alerted. As others have said, being seen to travel in First is a recipe for a knuckle rapping, even if it's possibly cheaper because chances are there are cheaper versions of your ticket that will put you in Standard Class
The result of this approach is that people leave it until late and then get the most flexible ticket possible, which can cost more than a cheaper type of First Class ticket booked well in advance.
So what? Well, if I am sitting in 1st with plenty of space, a working power supply, a DII Laptop and free Wi-Fi, I am going to work. In standard, I don't even take the laptop for fear of some knobber looking over my shoulder and taking a photo of something which is OS (Restricted as was), and this appearing in the Daily Mail or some such. As it is, if the RAF CS doesn't feel my time is worth £30 an hour, then I will take my own entertainment and watch NCIS. I can get 3 episodes in during a trip to Abbey Wood.
Price of everything, value of nothing.
By the way, the rules have changed about internal flying, though it wouldn't surprise me if some Travel (Prevention) Cells keep the changes to themselves for fear of people realising that they aren't actually needed any more.

[ian16th]

TTN

In fact the H2S equipped Victor K2 was in service till 1993,

I helped the EMI guys install what I believe was the 1st H2S Mk9 for the 'trainer' at BCBS Lindholme in 1955!

So that was quite a reasonable service life for valve driven kit.

[langleybaston]

Forgive ignorance but was not H2S in service with the heavy bomber force in about 1943?

[Treble one]

Indeed it was one of the early aids introduced to increase bombing accuracy langleybastion. A much later Mk H2S was also used in the famous Black Buck 1 raid to the Falklands in 82 as well...

[ian16th]

H2S Mk3G was used in Lancasters
H2S Mk4A Was used in Lincolns
H2S Mk9 was at the heart of the NBS that was installed in the V-Bombers

Variants of the above became various Mk's of ASV used in Coastal Command A/C.

I don't know what was fitted to the Hasting's that were used at BCBS Lindholme after the demise of the Lincoln's.

From photo's, the Hastings look as though they could have been fitted with the scanners and radome's of the ex-Lincoln H2S Mk 4A. But it would have been approaching antique status if it was.

[Tankertrashnav]

I remember that NBS trainer at Lindholme well Ian. Spent many a happy hour in there bombing fictional Russian targets with names which if you looked carefully you discovered were based on past and existing staff members.

[Barksdale Boy]

TTN

Mackaysk rings a bell.

[Whenurhappy]

ACAS is a very decent bloke (for an engineer!) and not at all pretentious.

On the matter of 1st class rail tickets, irrespective of the business case, hell would freeze over before tickets such as are permitted by 'the system'.

A while back a friend of mine was on duty in the UK when a crisis struck the capital where he was an attache. His flight was cancelled the nigt of the crisis but he needed to get back to Post and to his family who were holed up in their apartment. He managed to rebook another, and rather convoluted, series of flights back to Post from Manchester. The main leg was Business Class (but cheaper than standard) and he flew through the night and back to the war-torn capital and drove back through road-blocks manned by militia, past bombed streets and burnt-out buildings and vehicles, finally arriving at the sand-bagged Embassy - and a very fraught wife and two rather excited kids.

Roll on reconcilliation of his GPC account (Government Procurement Card). The MOD have sought to invoice his for the entirity of the BC flight as it was done without 'authorisation'. He's pointed out that he was to return on that day anyway; the original flights were cancelled (and refunded) by the airline and his new flights - and the only seats he could get - worked out at about the same cost (but would have costed more by standard class). He's also been questioned by non-SMEs as to why he had to get back 'in such a hurry'. Approaches like this make people throw their hands up in despair. And, I suspect, the nature of this travel and the circumstances that brought it about, would be accepted by even the most dimmest of Daily Mail readers.

[BEagle]

A friend of mine was an Air Cdre and a thoroughly nice chap to boot. He saw the direction the RAF was taking, so decided to PVR...

He was holding some post in Washington at the time and entitled to fly Business / Upper Class or whatever across the pond. But the wretched bean counters told him he'd have to fly economy, because on the day of his flight he would cease to be in the RAF at midnight as his retirement took effect.

"Well, that's just confirmed to me that it's time to leave this sinking ship", he said. Fortunately the airline was made of better stuff and gave him a complimentary upgrade anyway.

Once upon a time, officers of Sqn Ldr and above were entitled to travel First Class on the choo-choo when on business, whether or not in uniform - RHIP as we used to say. But nowadays not even an Air Officer may travel in First Class, I gather...:mad:

The excellent Chiltern Railways has the right idea though. They don't have 'First Class' as such, but have a Business Zone on mainline trains which anyone can use for a small supplement of £10, although it costs slightly more (£25) on certain peak time trains. They make the point that you can upgrade to the Business Zone and get large tables for working, the widest seats with more legroom than you’ll find on any train service between Birmingham and London. So Business travel for those who actually need it, rather than a mere perk.

[Whenurhappy]

Beagle,

One of the things I looked forward to on promotion was the First Class Travel on trains, and I used it until it was killed off - coinciding with my second overseas tour. I then looked forward to Business Class travel to my post - only for that to be canned (along with using airmiles for upgrades...). I deal now with BAEs personnel - some of whom now travel on a BIZJET - they've offered me flights which I cannot accept. Bonkers. And I know that ACAS thinks it's bonkers, too.

[BEagle]

Are there any perks left now for senior and/or air officers?

Another friend was a 2* and told me of a forthcoming journey to be made. "What time is your driver coming to pick you up?", I asked, assuming that the journey would be made in a company fast black of some form or other....

Only to be told that these days it's self-drive in you own car and fill in the forms....:mad:

I was at a conference in Spain a couple of years ago and found that the RAF senior officer attendees had been required to take an easyJet flight at some inconvenient time of day from Gatwick... Are there no standards these days?

[Whenurhappy]

No - standards have fallen. Embarrasingly so.

[Tankertrashnav]

Dont worry, when Putin gets in and we become the People's Democratic Republic of Britain, senior politicians and military officers will be whizzing around in limos in traffic free "Zil lanes"!

Mackaysk rings a bell.

BB, yes I remember Mackaysk - named after the CI at the time I was there (1970).

[ian16th]

TTN

I remember that NBS trainer at Lindholme well Ian. Spent many a happy hour in there bombing fictional Russian targets with names which if you looked carefully you discovered were based on past and existing staff members. I never saw it working.

Lindholme was my 1st posting from Boy's Service and we were deliberately moved around to broaden our experience.

I started in ARSF, then I went to the 'Bombing School', where I looked after the Gee-H trainers, and the 'bench sets' in the classrooms, my mate did the H2S Mk4 ones. When we did the monthly calibrations, we each played the pilot to the other one's nav. If we didn't make a dead hit, we re-calibrated. We were probably the 2 best 'trainer bomb aimer's at BCBS. It would have been interesting to try it for real on a Lincoln.

When the EMI guys arrived to install the NBS kit we were 'assisting' them.

The biggest part was a device with 2 negatives about 4' x 4' where light was projected through to a sensor, this simulated the radar signal. The light source/sensor moved around on a 'crab'. We called the whole thing the 'fish fryer'. I dunno if the name stuck.

I was then re-assigned to one of the squadrons to get some a/c time in before going back to Yatesbury for my fitters course. I never saw NBS again 'till I was posted to 214 in 1959.

[bluetail]

The current ACAS would have learnt his travelling methods and rights from his days as a JENGO on the Mighty Hunter.
Good on him I say

[langleybaston]

Yes, RHIP slipped at the same rate that I advanced civilian grades and the contentiously named EMR.

Not only First Class rail, but service vehicles and drivers. At JHQ I occupied a Gp Capt post and started with a nice car and a service driver, soon changed to grumpy German driver, soon changed to drive yourself, soon changed to drive your own battered little Ford or Opel.

This was of course in parallel with down and down and down grading for quarters. Back in 1961 at RAF Nicosia just about everything was provided on scale. By the time I did my last march-out JHQ 1996 there was not a lot on the inventory to check.

Still the most important RHIP aspect was the salary and the pension, after all is said and done.

[sandiego89]

Due to abuses by a small few, here in the USA we have similar travel rules that limit what we can and can not do on military travel: no first class, have to stay at places at the military rate, have to book travel through a contract travel site and get fares at the contract price (even if I can get cheaper, more convenient flights off the internet), have to use my gov't travel card for certain things (folks using the automatic tellers at casinos and strip clubs to get their per diem cash are the latest scandal), have to use small rental cars, have to get multiple approvals for conference hosting, etc. etc.


The good deal boondoggle is getting harder to come by and requires careful planning....

[Bigbux]

Oddest thing I've seen on a train was in 2009. Having been out for a few years during a buoyant time for business I had purchased a first class season ticket for BeardRail. The previous week, I had "accidentally" flashed said first class season ticket in front of an old friend who had just made SO1. His response was to decant my precious ticket into an RAF issue plastic rail wallet holder - neatly emblazoned with a smart looking roundel.

So, I was sitting in first class, minding my own business on Mr Branson's finest, season ticket ready for inspection on the table in front of me, when Bob Ainsworth (then Labour Minister for Defence) pours himself into the seat opposite and opens a briefcase stuffed full of pink files. All in full view of myself and anyone else who cared to happen by.

He glances at me, directing his eyes to the visible roundel on my pass and then back at me, before getting up and going to the next carriage to help himself to free crisps and nutty. In front of me, in all its glory is a SECRET file on the expansion of the TA. Bob returns, and in-between mouthfuls of crisps answers a phone call, the subject of which quite obviously concerns plans to cut Army regular numbers, but most importantly, to hide this until after the looming election.

We arrive at my stop, where on passing Bob, I tap the top file in his briefcase with my finger. The case lid is slammed shut immediately, a look of ruddy consternation on Bob's face.

I met my friend a week later and told him the tale, whereupon he informed me that as part of the on-going savings measures, all senior officers had just been forbidden from travelling first class.

I almost choked on my latte.

[Melchett01]

Are there any perks left now for senior and/or air officers?

Another friend was a 2* and told me of a forthcoming journey to be made. "What time is your driver coming to pick you up?", I asked, assuming that the journey would be made in a company fast black of some form or other....

Only to be told that these days it's self-drive in you own car and fill in the forms....:mad:

I was at a conference in Spain a couple of years ago and found that the RAF senior officer attendees had been required to take an easyJet flight at some inconvenient time of day from Gatwick... Are there no standards these days?

BEagle,

Easyjet is about par for the course these days. Had to do a quick trip out to the Med recently on an ops issue. Had to get there pronto and Easyjet was only option in a realistic timeframe and even that was questioned.

That said, the most apoplexy inducing thing I've encountered was one of my SNCOs being told to submit a business case to go on an op tour as directed by Manning!

[Basil]

Basil ... did you serve on Fyffes Cavina or Camito on the 50s/60s? We [family] emigrated and repatriated to/from Jamaica on them ;)

Camito and Golfito were our large (100 pax IIRC) ships. I didn't sail on either. I Can't remember Cavina.

What business was the family in?

This is Golfito leaving Port Antonio in 1962 taken from, IIRC, Matina.
The island on the left was once owned by Errol Flynn as was The Titchfield Hotel on high ground on the right. We used to have a drink and swim at The Titchfield in their fresh and salt water pools.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/Capn_Basil/LR%20Elders%20amp%20Fyffes%20SS%20Golfito%20Port%20Antonio%2 01962_zpsqqbbvdgk.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Capn_Basil/media/LR%20Elders%20amp%20Fyffes%20SS%20Golfito%20Port%20Antonio%2 01962_zpsqqbbvdgk.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/Capn_Basil/LR%20Elders%20amp%20Fyffes%20SS%20Golfito%20leaving%20Port%2 0Antonio%201962_zpsut6ssy2l.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Capn_Basil/media/LR%20Elders%20amp%20Fyffes%20SS%20Golfito%20leaving%20Port%2 0Antonio%201962_zpsut6ssy2l.jpg.html)

p.s. Sorry about the MN hijack of thread . . Trains and bloats and planes . . .

[Tankertrashnav]

Those were the days when ships looked like ships and had elegance and style :ok:

[Haraka]

As late as 1975 a Regiment J.O. of my acquaintance was posted out to Hong Kong. He dug up the non-rescinded Q.R. which gave him ( and his family) the choice of means of travel.
Six weeks by ship. :) !

[KenV]

I'm an ignorant American and I got the impression from this thread that Brit servicemen are discouraged and perhaps even prohibited from wearing their uniforms in public. Did I get the wrong impression? And if my impression was correct and uniforms are discouraged/prohibited in public, why is that so?

[MPN11]

It was prohibited during the days of intensive IRA activity, when we were all deemed 'targets' of those terrorists. We employed a wide range of measures to protect ourselves, including not using mail forms of address showing our rank, checking under vehicles for IEDs, varying routes to/from work. They were 'interesting times' - I was only 'bombed' twice in UK, and lost a good buddy murdered on his doorstep in Germany.

Things were relaxed after the 'peace talks' which placed former IRA leaders in Government in Northern Ireland. It still felt un-natural wearing uniform in public after so many years of prohibition.

[Jumping_Jack]

It is discouraged, unless you want to become a Lee Rigby.

[NutLoose]

I was at a conference in Spain a couple of years ago and found that the RAF senior officer attendees had been required to take an easyJet flight at some inconvenient time of day from GatwickI know of some staff members of a now defunct airline that were travelling out of country to a meeting to sign a multi million pound contract for the maintenance of another companies aircraft.
They were booked to fly out on one of their own low cost airline aircraft and duly turned up on time to fly out, unfortunately company rules were that members of staff would be kicked off any full flights to allow the £9-99 fraternity to take those seats, you guessed it..............
The other company eventually (after several failed attempts to get out there) had to fly to the UK in their company biz jet to sign the contract.

.

[MPN11]

If the assembled community will excuse a bit of 'Travel Deviation', with associated its stupidities (and forgive me if I've told this story before) ...

I had to fly to OZ in 1988 on a procurement investigative task, with things booked [as they were] through the Services Booking Centre (SBC). So, the solution for getting me there was:

1. VC-10 Trooper Brize Norton to HKG [was it twice a week?] which was "free".
2. Gulf-Air HKG-BKK, in Business [entitled as a long-haul wg cdr], and sleep in the airport :eek:
3. BA BKK-SYD, in Business.
4. Overnight in SYD :uhoh: before flying up to CBR, squashed against the cabin wall by "Fat Bloke" in an F-27.
... do Business stuff in CBR, staying in reasonable hotel, for a couple of days ...
5. Fly [Economy] down to MEL.
... do Business stuff in MEL and RAAF East Sale for a week, staying in Messes.
Then the serious joke starts:
6. Fly MEL-HKG, Cathay in Business.
7. Stay in Army Mess in HKG for 3 days waiting for the next VC-10 Trooper :eek:
8. Fly VC-10 back to Brize.

It felt strange wandering around in Public in uniform, but all the OZ guys did it so I just fitted in to the the scene. The legs in Business Class were nice, and that's the only way I fly these days. But the "Cheap" routing meant about a week spent unproductively out of the office to save money ... but of course that cost was never factored in.

I understand that subsequently a more intelligent approach was taken, with the cost of direct flights being traded off against 'lost time'. I was away for a little over 2 weeks doing things that could have been done in 10 days or less. But it was a very interesting trip, at HMG's expense.

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

one of my SNCOs being told to submit a business case to go on an op tour as directed by Manning


Must have been tempting to submit a rather weak business case...

[Beancountercymru]

I one spent a long northwards rail trip from Bristol Parkway with, across the gangway, a uniformed Group Captain and his sharp suited civilian colleague that I took for a consultant who spent the journey to Crewe discussing maintenance of a service ac complete with large diagrams that showed the various partners in its maintenance and details how ac would be "sentenced" each day.

[Tankertrashnav]

I'm an ignorant American and I got the impression from this thread that Brit servicemen are discouraged and perhaps even prohibited from wearing their uniforms in public. Did I get the wrong impression? And if my impression was correct and uniforms are discouraged/prohibited in public, why is that so?

A few years ago I attended a Remembrance Sunday event at the then new Bomber Command Memorial in Green Park, London. It was well attended and one of the attendees was a USAF 2 star general, who was in uniform, as were both of his ADCs, one a Lieutenant Colonel and the other a female sergeant. Also present was an RAF Air Vice Marshal (2 star equivalent) in a civilian suit, which I thought was entirely inappropriate and really let the side down, particularly as the USAF contingent had taken the trouble to turn up in uniform.

So not so ignorant after all!

[Stanwell]

Troop trains - anybody remember them?

Eighty year old carriages which were on their last legs, hauled by a wheezing locomotive which should have been in a museum, one hundred and
thirty troops (plus kit) herded into rolling stock each with seating for just 100 - and periodically shunted onto remote sidings to allow freight trains to pass.

Plus .. eleven hours on a stale cheese sandwich and an apple does not make for happy travellers.
Ah but, we were 'serving our country' - so that's alright.


I'm sure that somebody within the Department of Defence was congratulated and promoted for saving money, though.

.

[racedo]

Troop trains - anybody remember them?


Are there enough to fill a train these days :(

[racedo]

An accountant friend on a pub visit told me of the business he working in recently.

If 2 people travelling long distance on train he gets secretary to take photos day before and gets them a Two Together railcard £30, employees though he nuts until they travelled 1st class there and back with free grub and still less than cost of a standard ticket plus meals and coffees somewhere.

Only comment from an employee who is "proudly" gay was a guard told him "you could do better" when he had checked their tickets and railcard.

[Stanwell]

One wonders, racedo.
The ones I referred to were called "Military Specials".
I don't know how they get on these days but, frankly, we didn't find anything special about them, to put it mildly.

[ian16th]

Troop trains - anybody remember them?Travelled on 3, all in 1953 as a Boy Entrant.

To and from Summer Camp, betwixt Calne and Millom and then from Calne to Cosford Halt when all Boys training was centralised there.

[BEagle]

Before the Military Salary Scheme, we also had 'Forces Leave' tickets and 'Forces Duty' tickets. Which were cheaper than the normal second class price.

But there wasn't much point in travelling in civvies if some ticket inspector asked in a loud voice to see your 1250, if there were any boyos within earshot.

Some RAF type once flew civair to Aldergrove in the days of the troubles - in his uniform. The chap sent to meet him was horrified when he saw him arriving and arranged for a PA message to advise him that there was an urgent message for him at the airline desk. Off he trotted, to be handed the phone "Buy yourself a ticket on the next flight out of here and get on it....if you're still alive!" was the message from his greeter :eek:

[huge72]

When I was serving at Aldergrove the story was that after a noise complaint from a resident of Forkhill, South Armagh real ''Bandit Country'' regarding low level flights in and out of the Heli Site. The two officers from Noise Complaints arrived at Aldergrove in No 1 uniform, hired a car and drove down to visit said resident to investigate. Allegedly they were most surprised when the Army came to the rescue and escort them all the way back to Aldergrove. Needless to say it never happened again!!!!

[Stanwell]

I suppose we should have been grateful, ian16th..
"Sheer looxury, it were." .. as the Yorkies would say.

The alternative was sitting in the back of a convoy of Studebaker 'Deuce and a Half' 6X6 cargo trucks which had been left over from WWII.
It took just one of them to break down (which they regularly did) to extend the journey considerably.
That's what I call rugged travelling.
Hardens you up, we were told to cheer us up.
On top of that, can you imagine, we had to wear uniforms as well.

So I guess I shouldn't complain about having to travel by rail.

.

[Haraka]

Beags . I flew Civair into Aldergrove ( by Viscount ) suitably long haired, 'tached and dressed down . Then stood like a lemon for several minutes wondering what came next.
An even more scruffy, long haired lout sidled up to me and whispered " Follow me". Then looking at the expression on my face added.......... " Haraka"
You used to have your suitcase rummaged through in front of you in those days.
I had opened mine , the checker took one look inside at the piled-in contents then remarked:
" Obviously a single guy then".

[Pontius Navigator]

Once, at short notice we had to return to base from St A than by train. We were in flying suits, carrying bones domes, LSJs and technically carrying firearms. With much grumbling we were issued 1st class warrants.

Sadly Bomber Command diverted a Hastings and we flew back.

[ian16th]

Before the Military Salary Scheme, we also had 'Forces Leave' tickets and 'Forces Duty' tickets. Which were cheaper than the normal second class price.

They were at some peculiar rate such as 7/9th of the full fare.
There were also Forces Weekend Returns, can't remember the rate of those.

[ian16th]

Stanwell
On top of that, can you imagine, we had to wear uniforms as well.

In Boys service we were not allowed to wear civvies at all.

After being issued our uniforms, our civilian clothes were packaged and sent home.

[Stanwell]

The perils of wearing a uniform..
While I can't hope to compare with the travails of UK service people during "The Troubles", a couple of mates and I who'd just hopped off the train,
anticipating a couple of weeks' pleasant leave, were walking down a main street in the middle of Sydney, 1969, and were a little taken aback
to find ourselves abused and spat upon by a few long-haired and colourfully-clothed 'peace and love' types.

We didn't overly react - but effectively 'expressed our displeasure'.
I doubt those ones tried pulling that stunt again for a while.

.

[Heathrow Harry]

In the late 80's saw a Colonel of the RVSN (the Russian missile boys) in full rig with a briefcase chained to his wrist on the tube platform at Piccadilly Circus.

IIRC the surface traffic was all snarled up and he must have had a seriosuly important meeting somewhere ...................

[Treble one]

HH, I wonder did the Russians have a 'football' a la our American Allies????

[MPN11]

A 'balalaika' case?

[RAFEngO74to09]

Treble One,


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheget

[MPN11]

I think I've still got one that looks like that ... I used to use it for carrying a couple of pistols to the Range ;)

[Heathrow Harry]

"HH, I wonder did the Russians have a 'football' a la our American Allies????"

I'm sure they do.............

To be fair he acted as if it was something he did every day - eyes front, military bearing, everything polished & gleaming. The person I was with commented that you rarely saw British Officers on the tube ever...........

[racedo]

The person I was with commented that you rarely saw British Officers on the tube ever...........

Well apart from the YMCA nites at their club when dressed as Samantha................ alledgedly :suspect:

[Wander00]

I recall when a special train was chartered (late 50s) to take our CCF contingent to camp. All of us carried Lee Enfields, and some clown managed to discharge a live round, which was hushed up

[racedo]

All of us carried Lee Enfields, and some clown managed to discharge a live round, which was hushed up

Premature firing...............

[airborne_artist]

There was a daily (M-F) trooping flight from Luton to I guess Hannover (brain cells dimmed by cheap wine), flown by Britannia I think.

One of my ushers was booked on said flight ex Luton.

On check-in at the Britannia/Movements desk he was told he had a prisoner (19 y/o who'd gone AWOL from his unit) to escort back to the Fatherland.

Bob drew himself up to his 6'3" and said in his best voice (he was an actor in his day job). "We don't take prisoners in this regiment". The face of the Cpl on the desk was quite something. :E

[DON T]

I know it's off thread but the mention of Britannia Airways flights to RAFG from Luton reminded me that they always played a Glenn Miller song as you taxied for take off.:rolleyes:

[racedo]

I know it's off thread but the mention of Britannia Airways flights to RAFG from Luton reminded me that they always played a Glenn Miller song as you taxied for take off.:rolleyes:

Probably just to get you "In the mood"..........................

[langleybaston]

and the Britannias did the troopers to Cyprus in 1961, "I'm flying backwards to Christmas ......". I think from Luton?

We lived near Luton. So, outbound by car to Hendon, by coach back to ...... Luton, where, as a civvy, "EMR F/O" I was nearly lumbered with the diplomatic bag. I was green in those days, but not that green.

[Warmtoast]

When I travelled on the Britannia Airways trooper flights to Germany in 1972-73 (to both Wildenrath and Dusseldorf) the Britannia London terminal was alongside St Pancras Station and after check-in were bussed up to Luton - does anyone have a photo of Britannia's London terminal from the early 1970's? - TIA


WT

[ian16th]

and the Britannias did the troopers to Cyprus in 1961,

In 1962 it was BUA from Stanstead, with check in at Victoria station!

[MPN11]

British Eagle Britannia from Heathrow to Changi in 67. A long, tedious, uncomfortable trip ... only alleviated by sitting next to a rather pleasant young nurse ;)

[Tankertrashnav]

I spent a few months in Russia in 1992 (first year after the breakup of the Soviet Union). I noticed that military in uniform were everywhere, and not always as smart as the colonel referred to by Heathrow Harry. The worst example I saw was a junior officer strolling down the street in Yaroslavl, cap pushed back, tunic unbuttoned, can of coke in one hand and his other around his girfriend's shoulders!

A bit different in St Petersburg, there it was understandably naval officers in evidence. Saw quite a few admirals on Nevsky Prospekt, all plastered in medal ribbons of course and looking very smart and impressive.

[Shackman]

[quote]I recall when a special train was chartered (late 50s) to take our CCF contingent to camp. All of us carried Lee Enfields, and some clown managed to discharge a live round,

[Pontius Navigator]

Ian16th, the Hastings had the full H2S9A same as the Mk 1 Vs.

TTN, navy again, I mentioned elsewhere the run ashore in Brest by ratings of Petr the Great, immaculate too.

[NutLoose]

On check-in at the Britannia/Movements desk he was told he had a prisoner (19 y/o who'd gone AWOL from his unit) to escort back to the Fatherland.Ahh... we had a signal at Lossie on Red Flag wind up that SAC Bloggs was required back in Germany to answer some police questions, they looked at it and signalled back that they would send him by train down to Luton then on the next days shuttle to Wildenrath.
Answer that came back to put him in the back of a Jag and fly him back to Bruggen ASAP... at that point his ring piece went into overdrive.