Air Tanzania to Start Q400 Operations 15 October

[Phone Wind]

ATCL plans to start operating its 2 new Dash8 Q400s on 15 October once TCAA Certification is complete. Initial destinations will include Arusha, Mbeya and Mtwara with fares starting at around $75, one way.
President Magufuli has announced that more aircraft will be purchased in the next 3 years as funds become available. One of the types they're rumoured to be looking at is the new CS300.
Dutch Bombardier-approved maintenance provider SAMCO is providing technical support.
ATCL takes off on October 15 - News | The Citizen (http://www.thecitizen.co.tz/News/ATCL-takes-off--on-October-15/1840340-3409248-mgf8noz/index.html)

This will certainly provide tough competition to money-losing competitors Fastjet who seem to have completely mis-managed the introduction of their leased E190, the first of which is still sitting on the ramp at Dar while they struggle to keep to any sort of schedule with a single A319

[ZINDONDA]

The q400s are cruising the skies with their blue tails,its quite refreshing to see the rebirth...ooh plus an all TZ crew,a step in the right direction for the National Airline.

[ZINDONDA]

currently the E190 is flying..just not sure where to....hehehe

[Phone Wind]

The E190 is on dry lease to Fastjet from Bulgaria Air. FJ will shortly be brining in another leased A319.
The problem with ATCL is that their fares are too high compared with Precision and FJ, though they have said they'll bring them down - maybe because 2 other new airlines are soon going to start scheduled services from Dar.
ATCL are probably going to be buying a couple of CS3000 to start operating in 2018.

[ZINDONDA]

True indeed, Actually by late 2017,the CS300 will be in to cover the regional market.Itll be interesting to see how the CS 300 matches the B737 ,A319 and E170 fleets of rival airlines. Theres also been a few whispers of long haul jetliner coming in 2018...only time will tell.

[ZINDONDA]

Meanwhile the 2 new airlines coming up...what market are they targeting, internal or regional because all seem to be very highly competitive now.

[Phone Wind]

Air Tanzanian have now paid for the third Q400 scheduled to arrive soon and has confirmed orders to make it the launch customer of the new Bombardier CS300 in Africa.
President Magafuli is also rumored to have authorized a deposit of $10 million on a B787 dreamliner for delivery in June 2018

https://wolfganghthome.wordpress.com/2016/12/07/tanzanian-government-pays-10-million-us-dollars-commitment-fee-for-new-dreamliner/

[4runner]

Not to be a Negative Nancy, but....First of all, 10 mil is not a deposit on a 78, especially from an inexperienced operator and new airline of a country with historically poor relations with the West and bad credit. Secondly, Tanzania noticed that one of its neighbors has created a viable airline in the region and got jealous. Thirdly, its Tanzania...

[Phone Wind]

Ok, $10 million is a statement of intent, but a pretty good one as the government has paid cash for its new Q400s - actually owned by the government and leased by ATCL.
ATCL is not a new operator - though, admittedly it's been effectively moribund for years.
Yes, it's Tanzania, but with Magafuli (the Bulldozer) possibly not the Tanzania of 10 years ago. After all, in just 1 year of the new government it's operating 2 Q400s

[ZINDONDA]

4runner in June 2018 when the 787 arrives, be sure to receive a PM from me titled " This is Tanzania"
Like Phone wind said Tanzania today has flipped a new page, I suggest you flip yours as well.

[salvo montalbano]

Does somebody knows if they accept applications from foreign pilots?

[4runner]

I'm not anti-Tanzania....I am realistic. Anyone that has ever attempted to clear a vehicle or container through customs in Dar would be skeptical. There's a great episode on Vice about African Cowboys that does a good job showing just how difficult navigating post-colonial, post-socialist Tanzanian buearocracy. A 787 is a very sophisticated aircraft. It takes years to build up the network necessary to economically operate an aircraft that size and years to get all the necessary approval to use it to its full capability. You don't just sign a letter of intent and magically start a global flag carrier. Tanzania WANTS a 787. There's a big difference between wanting and doing. Your neighbor RwandAir has been operating it's own aircraft for almost 8 years and is aggressively expanding and they just got their first wide body. A big aircraft can do a lot of financial damage if it's not properly managed and planned. Proceed with caution and optimism, but be realistic...

[kibz2005]

A widebody aircraft requires a very large support network. It's not enough to look at other carriers and say "they come here with widebodies everyday. We should get our own and we'll fill ours too." People travel on bigger carriers for their route network which sadly, Air Tanzania does not yet have. It would be great to see the airline grow and open up opportunities in the region. However, growth should be cautious lest they realise that a widebody can sink a company into debt levels equal to the GDP of a small country.

[254HEAVY]

Yup case example the airline next door. 2 787 & 5 T7 wet leased and 2 T7 just stored at the hangers! Wide-bodies are a headache to manage/run leave alone them returning money!

4runner is right on the money. Since commencing operations in 2002, Rwandair got their first "heavy" in Sept this yr and the second one about 2 weeks ago. They built and utilised their Dash 8 & CRJ's for year and years to get the right amount of loads & networks that would require a "heavy". They are adopting the ET model and YES RWD have also placed a "future" 788 1 order too!

[Phone Wind]

The way the Tanzanian economy is heading at present may well mean they won't have as large an international market in the next few years

Nigeria's Dangote clash with Tanzania's John Magufuli will leave investors worried ? Quartz (http://qz.com/862282/nigerias-dangote-clash-with-tanzanias-john-magufuli-will-leave-investors-worried/)

[nonsuch123]

4runner is right with his assesment, planning to buy a single dreamliner is terrible waste of money indeed. These guys cant even put a working website:

http://www.airtanzania.co.tz/air-tanzania-news/Travel%20with%20Dash%208%20Q400%20feel%20the%20King/Queen/10

Just one of many dead links on the website. At least now they have put up some news explaining why online booking is not working since months...
Only reason why the boss here in TZ bought this plane is to show off, esp. to Kenya

Let me quote for you:

In January 2009, the Airbus A320 underwent a Check D, also known as a Heavy Maintenance Visit, which is done after every four to five years. Subsequently in July 2010, the aircraft was returned to the lessor, a Lebanese firm, Wallis Trading Company. The government on paper incurred a loss of $39 million on the lease of the Airbus, which according to the report did not fly. But the report further shows that the debt accumulated from the transactions with the Lebanese firm rose to Tsh322 billion ($200 million), enough to purchase three brand new Airbuses of the same series. According to Airbus Aircraft 2012 Average List prices, the purchase order price of a brand new Airbus A320 series is $88.3 million. Controller and Auditor General Ludovick Utouh says that the government involvement in business decision making at ATCL is a serious problem.

Chinese firm leased obsolete aircraft for Air Tanzania - News (http://www.theeastafrican.co.ke/news/Chinese-firm-leased-obsolete-aircraft-for-Air-Tanzania/2558-1409032-8xjs11z/index.html)

[Phone Wind]

nonsuch123,
You're obviously totally out of touch with what's happening in Tanzania. The article you posted your second link to was published in 2012, since when Tanzania has had a change of government and ATCL has had a change in management, with almost all the old senior management swept away.
Sure, some bits of the website aren't yet working properly - I have the same problem with AF/KLM and frequently complain to them. However, I had no problem at all using it to book a flight from Mwanza to Dar a couple of weeks ago at a cost of $90.
Compared with Fastjet, I found the experience much better with a full service flight and everything hassle free and on time

[pfvspnf]

What happened to the guys a few years ago who went to their local MPs complaining about employment? Did some of them end up as chopper pilots? Any chance things can get moving again?

[kibz2005]

There's tumbleweeds running through this thread right now :-/ Any word on the incoming widebody? With 5 months to go, shouldn't it be all over the news?

[4runner]

Yeah. Sooooo. Not trying to be a negative Nancy. But it’s Tanzania. The only country that makes Tanzania look good in the region is Burundi. Mozambique has a fleet of new 737’s operating. Once again, try clearing a vehicle or container from Dar Es Salaam and then talk about starting a global flag carrier. Tanzania is a nightmare for doing anything other than a safari. It’s even difficult to bring aid into the country. Think about that for a minute. It’s a challenge to bring stuff to give away to the needy. You have to bribe a multi layered bureaucracy to bring in charity to much needed peeps. I’ve had a caravan on short final try to land on top of me in Kilimanjaro while we back taxi the runway. The controller blamed us for “improperly” taxiing our Boeing, and the caravan for “exceeding” speed on final and that he knows the operating characteristics of ALL aircraft. Until there is accountability, honesty and transparency in Tanzania, any attempt at a legitimate national airline is bound to fail. You can take that to the bank and get some stamps and certificates along the way.

[4runner]

nonsuch123,
You're obviously totally out of touch with what's happening in Tanzania. The article you posted your second link to was published in 2012, since when Tanzania has had a change of government and ATCL has had a change in management, with almost all the old senior management swept away.
Sure, some bits of the website aren't yet working properly - I have the same problem with AF/KLM and frequently complain to them. However, I had no problem at all using it to book a flight from Mwanza to Dar a couple of weeks ago at a cost of $90.
Compared with Fastjet, I found the experience much better with a full service flight and everything hassle free and on time

Yeah...Air Tanzania is just like KLM, only better. Eyes rolling.

[bluesideoops]

The proof of the pudding is in the eating - as someone in this thread already commented, just try booking a flight online on their official website. I tried now and the website is completely down!! Can't access a single page and this is from a reliable, fast internet connection and via multiple browsers (in other words I verified the problem lies with them not me). If they can't even get the website right, then how do you expect them to buy, operate, maintain and market the likes of a Boeing 787 Dreamliner, let alone get the approvals to operate to foreign markets (whom Tanzania seems to be doing a great job of alienating at the moment by its anti-foreigner policies - watch that bite you on the bum!). The comments previously in this thread are correct that Air Tanzania is an uncompetitive propped-up-by-the-Government joke that wouldn't last five seconds if it was a genuine private sector competitive airline. Just because you keep putting aircraft in the air doesn't make you a good airline. As someone else said 'watch this space' - yep, I'm watching it and its not going to be filled with a Dreamliner and eventually its going to be filled with Q400s that are no longer flying because ATZ are once again going to screw it all up - once a lemon, always a lemon!

[lowbypass]

If you have the type rating, yes

[pfvspnf]

Too much politics , what happened to the group of guys ready to go to YYZ for their type rating ?

[Phone Wind]

The ATCL 787-800 has already completed its first pre-delivery flight and rumour has it that it may be delivered next weekend.

I must say it’s a bit of an odd strategy bringing that in before the 2 CS300s but, hey, this is Africa where grandstanding, politics and prestige take priority over economics. I think they’d have done much better economically to have followed the RwandAir model. Talk is that the initial schedule is for 3 flights a week to Mumbai. That’s not going to start to cover operating costs! On a positive note, it seems likely they will pass their IOSA audit, which will help other inter-continental routes (if they don’t run out of state money first).

This may may look good on paper, but I see bad things happening in Tanzania now. Fastjet may have lousy management, but I don’t like the dirty tricks rumoured to being used by TCAA under political pressure to stop their route development in Tanzania. Magafuli seems to be taking the country back to the bad early nationalistic days of Nyerere (which he himself admitted in his latter years were a mistake). Outwardly, it’s good that he talks the talk about his anti-corruption stance, but the reality is that with tougher penalties, which are not being enforced, corruption is just as rife, but bribes are much more expensive now. It’s also obvious that press freedom is being curtailed and the internet monitored more which is why many of my Tanzanian friends feel frightened to post anything critical of their government on any Internet forums.

The result of all this this is that internal air travel in Tanzania is ridiculously expensive in a country where distances are long and road transport is very dangerous. The Dreamliner is glamorous - but at what cost? Magafuli is taking the country backwards and driving away much-needed foreign investment. Many of my friends have effectively closed down their businesses in Tanzania, many moving to Kenya and Rwanda

[4runner]

That aircraft will be requisitioned for “official VIP transport” in short order. The pax will be left stranded and shouting at Julius Nyerere airport where RwandAir, Qatar and Ethiopiain will gladly take those pax. Wait for it....waaaaiiiittt for it.

[wabulabantu]

Why in the world are they using the 787 on domestic routes? Am I missing something here?https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmforum.com-vbulletin/720x1280/whatsapp_image_2018_07_04_at_07_28_23_6e87b125c89d4420daff6d 64da03bbef964d496e.jpeg

[Squawk 6042]

Presumably to get experience of operating them - I suspect it may be a short term route use. I re-call that BA used their 787s around Europe when they were first delivered.

[4runner]

It takes years of planning, country specific avaiation administration approval and diplomatic negotiations to start international routes. Normally you get approval or indicate intent, then start negotiations and audits. It also takes some time to establish route network support, destination logistics and advertising to generate customers. Has anyone seen any ads for Air Tanzania anywhere? This venture is very exciting and I’m sure will become the Spirit of the Nation, a regional superpower and regular, and punctual visitor to destinations worldwide...

[Phone Wind]

ATCL’s 787-8 arrived in Dar today and is initially scheduled to start 3 flights a week to Mumbai, which I must admit is a bit odd as it’s a very short route for an aircraft like a Dreamliner. Maybe it’s just to get early experience of operating the type before starting flights to China and/or Europe.
The airline is rumoured to have completed its IOSA audit now and is optimistic that it will be favourable.
They never give away much in advance about aircraft deliveries but the CS300s must be due soon. I’m happy to see more aircraft entering the country with the employment opportunities they present, but rather doubtful about their ability to put in the required infrastructure or have the requisite number of suitably qualified personnel to be able to cope with such a large and rapid expansion, especially given Magufuli’s hostility towards expatriates which has led to many leaving.

[kibz2005]

4runner in June 2018 when the 787 arrives, be sure to receive a PM from me titled " This is Tanzania"
Like Phone wind said Tanzania today has flipped a new page, I suggest you flip yours as well.


I'm dying to know, had this message been sent yet?

[4runner]

It hasn’t. Evidently, the plane is there or Enroute. It won’t make a viable airline happen, but it’s there. Emirates and Qatar, watch out! Tanzania will probably revoke your landing rights.

[wabulabantu]

Hooray! Air Tanzania Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner lands in D'Salaam - News | The Citizen (http://www.thecitizen.co.tz/News/1840340-4652972-1m8bgyz/index.html)
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmforum.com-vbulletin/600x450/ndegelands_pic_6ee0e8303939506d42d783389979495b3121bad0.jpg

[Phone Wind]

Magufuli’s popularity is falling rapidly, though more so with the rich than the poor.

He’s going back to the old days of trying to curb freedom of the press. Twaweza na sisi carried out a survey entitled Sauti za Wananichi (Citizen’s Voices), which showed that Magafuli’s popularity has fallen from 71% last year to 55% this year. As a result the Tanzanian Commission for Science and Technology has required Teaweza to show cause why legal action should not be taken against it