airmed integrated course

[fritz_2001]

I'm just wondering about the licensing issues involved with the AirMed integrated course.

I recieved the prospectus from them and for the PPL/CPL/IR/ME/MCC/frozen ATPL + accommodation they quote a price of 59800 euros (ish) which by my estimation works out at about £35000!! This "seems" incredible but would this qualification enable me to fly for UK airlines? Airmed does not appear on the CAA list of approved fto's so would a graduate of this fto need to do some sort of conversion course to fly for uk airlines?

thanks in advance,

MW

[Tino]

Hi,

I am currently a student at Airmed and I can assure you that they are a well established FTO training for a JAA ATPL licence. They are fully approved and have the ISO9002 quality rating.
Students can go immediately from graduation to the right-hand seat of any european airline.
I know that the price is really unbelievable, but it is and your licence will be exactly the same as one from Oxford for example.
I am very happy here, sure there are some minor problems, like the new A320sim which had a delay in installing (used for the MCC/LOFT) and a chortage of planes, but they have been taken care of by the addition of 5 new Piper28's.
Flying in Spain is really a lot better than in Northern Europe, here we are trained from day one to fly from an International Airport (Valencia LEVC) with its commercial traffic, communications and procedures. Also, we end with 40h on the A320 full motion FNTP2 sim.
Courses are completely in English and notes come from Oxford now (used to be Four Forces).

[JONATHAN PEARSON]

Hi,

Hope you can help!! :eek:
I have been trying to find some more infomation on this "Airmed intergrated course"
Any chance of an E-mail address or Website for the school!!!
Does the school have many "self sponsered" students or is it connected to any airlines??

Thankyou in advance
SB1089 :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Dutchman]

Hey tino,
you say that after graduation from airmed you can go straight to the right hand seat of any airliner. Can you tell me of any examples of recently graduated students with 200 hours of which some simulated on a a320 (or simular type!!!) who have gotten that job without airline sponsorship. Please don't sell people those pr talks.


p.s EAA won't help you get that job either.

[fritz_2001]

SB1089,
The url is www.airmed.es (http://www.airmed.es) but yesterday I recieved an info pack+video which contained a bit more info than is on the web site. I got this through the web site and is where I got the price from.

Tino,
There is no need to sell the place, a quick search of the archives yield your thoughts on it (although it was good to learn about some of the not so good things as well since it gives a better impression of the place), but if you could give us some examples of people leaving and moving straight into a RHS it would be great - especially if it was in the UK.

Can anybody answer my question about the licensing though? I know Tino has stated that it enables the graduate to take any job in europe but if this was true why doesn't the CAA web site have it listed as a recognised fto? I'm not saying that the place is not suitable, I simply do not understand the ins and outs of the licensing regulations.

thanks

MW

[ 23 November 2001: Message edited by: major wannabee ]

[Dutchman]

You can get a JAA licence at airmed which should be recognised through out Europe. In the UK, some companies still prefer CAA licence but they will all be changing to the JAA licence in future so should be no prob. My concern with Airmed and simular schools is that they state that you can get a job in the left hand seat after graduation in theory this may be possible but in practice without sponsership/connections practicaly impossible. If you are just starting out and you want to get your basic training (0->cpl)done for a resonable price airmed is probably as good as the rest and every school has its flaws. But take into account that < 200h will not get you a job yet especially in todays market where at 1000+ you only just start to get interesting for airliners and then even may have to take along some cash. You will need quite an amount of hour building/instructing(=more dosh) to get there afterwards.

Good luck

[Sensible]

Scuse me for chucking in a bucket of cold water here but ISO 9002 just means that they shuffle the paper in the order dictated by someone who want's to earn a few bucks for f*** all effort. And if a job is guaranteed then does that mean regardless of ability? if it does then I suggest that it is a trifle unbelievable!!! Caution! Caution! Too many people lately have thrown their money away, don't follow!!!null (http://null)

[fritz_2001]

Thanks for the speedy replies guys :)
Dutchman - you have answered my question perfectly so thank you very much.

As for getting straight into the RHS of an airliner, not for one moment did think that this was guarenteed or even likely to happen. After re-reading this thread nobody has mentioned that this would happen. Tino purely said that it "has" happened and I'm sure that the likes of Cabair/OATS/SFT/Jerez etc could claim the same thing. I am thinking of this like any other fto in that at the end of an intergrated course you will have ~200hrs and no job - just the licence. I am aware of the work that then has to be done but I would still be interested to hear of what previous student have done upon completion. I would think that this would be a fairly standard question to ask about any fto regardless of who they were. It really doesn't hurt to find out these things as long as the answers are kept in perspective.

MW

[ 23 November 2001: Message edited by: major wannabee ]

[rolling circle]

major wannabee - The CAA website does not list Airmed because the CAA does not approve it, that is done by the Spanish Authority. Similarly, the CAA website does not list FTOs approved by the French, Dutch, German, Swedish or any other JAA member state's Authority.

As to the acceptability of licences - In theory a licence issued by any JAA member state must be accepted, without formality, by every other JAA member state. However, as the French DGAC has shown, this does not always happen. In most cases a JAA licence issued by Spain will be as acceptable throughout the JAA as the same licence issued by the UK, in some cases more so. Tino, the representative of the Airmed marketing department, is quite right in saying that the licence obtained after an Airmed course is the same as that obtained after, for example, an Oxford or Cabair course. That is not to say, however, that the quality of training is the same and the airline training departments are well aware of which FTOs turn out the most employable product.

The hard fact is that, in the present climate, you will have little chance of getting into the RHS of an airliner no matter where you train. When things begin to improve (and your guess is as good as anyone else's on that matter) graduates from established schools with good reputations will, as always, have a slight advantage although the proclaimed benefit of an 'Oxford education' is vastly overstated. There are a number of airlines that are becoming increasingly disenchanted with the concept of 'integrated' training now that the constraints of the JAA syllabus has resulted in students being trained only to pass the exams. I know of two UK airlines that have a policy of rejecting any and every application from integrated course students.

[Tino]

First of all, let me clear out one thing, i am NOT an employee of Airmed, but a Student, 31st promotion, and I merely say my views on the school.
Of course, in this climate, you are far from guaranteed that you will be able to join an airline right away, but the licence you obtain ENABLES you to do so. Also, the mayor thing that Airlines want these days is NOT the reputation of the school but the ability of a pilot to adapt to airline life in a short period. If you train from an International Airport and end with MCC on a Jet, this will no doubt be an advantage.
By the way, maybe a better way to check-out if an FTO is a quality school, go to the EAAPS site. EAAPS is a grouping of the mayor schools in Europe who deliver a JAA licence and have proved to deliver also Quality and direct entry possibilities. www.eaaps.org (http://www.eaaps.org)
Airmed is of course not perfect, no FTO is, but they have a very good price for the product they deliver, and why don't you come visit the school, That way you can speak with the students themselves and see the infrastructure and environment. Make your choice on what you see, not on what you hear on a rumours forum.
If you want more info, do not hesitate, I will try to give you honest answers from my experiences with Airmed, positive AND negative.

[fritz_2001]

Thanks for all your replies guys :) they have been much appreciated.

I have one further question. So far as I can work out, the license gained on this course is identical to the license gained at somewhere like OATS or Jerez, places like this are cheaper AND the teaching is in english. Why is there not more mention of them on this site? I can understand that some people do not wish to leave the UK for such a long period of time for personal reasons etc. but there does seem to be a lot of people talking about Jerez. So why do people not consider alternatives? This is not to put Bae systems down in the slightest - I'm sure the training is first class, but there does seem to be alternatives.

Can someone please put me straight on this since I kinda get the feeling that I'm missing something really fundemental!!

MW

[ 27 November 2001: Message edited by: major wannabee ]

[Tino]

I think that a main reason is that Airmed still has to become known to the English public.
Most international students are from the Netherlands, Belgium and Italy.
Also, only 1 English promotion has ended so far, with a second one now finishing their twin-hours.

[BravoOne]

Hi Major WB,

I too am contemplating airmed as my chosen flight school.

Before I take the leap I was wondering if you had any information on any hidden costs that I should also be aware of etc.

Also, if you don't mind me asking, did you apply for a loan for the programme or are you simply a good saver?

Thanks in advance...

Regards,
B1

[fritz_2001]

B1,
I have no idea about hidden costs I'm afraid but it would definitly be something that I would find out about before enrolling. I have read the web page and the prospectus/video they sent me and I must say that it seems pretty comprehensive (although accommodation is included, food isn't, so you must allow for that). What extras were you thinking about? If you mean extra hours then yes I would expect you will have to pay for them, but off the top of my head things like landing fees etc were mentioned as included in the price. I don't have the booklet with me now but if you reply to this thread I'll have a look for you. Your best bet (after contacting them directly) would be if Tino can answer your request since he/she is already a student there. I would definitley be interested in your findings and would be grateful if you can post them on this forum.

As for the finance side, well no I don't have the funds right now since I am looking to start the course in a year or so. I'm just doing my research into my options. I have approached HSBC about a loan to cover the costs and I must say they were very receptive. Infact they seemed more than happy to discuss the fact that you might need one in the future even though you aren't applying right now since it proves to them that you are organised with your finances. I got the impression that they aren't too impressed by people that walk in after deciding that they want a loan of that size and simply asking/demanding for one. To them it appears as more of an impulse thing rather than a well thought out plan. However I decided that taking a massive loan to cover the whole thing was too much for me (especially when my university loans still need paying off) and so I intend to try and save up for maybe half the amount and then borrow the rest. This way I also get to see what is happening in the job market for a while before I part with my cash and begin on a full time course.

As for the details for payment, Airmed (in the booklet) states that they require something like 10,000 euro initial payment and then the rest in equal monthly payments. The actual figures escapes me right now but I will post them here this evening if you'd like? I don't know how flexible this is and you would have to contact Airmed directly about that.

MW

[Tino]

No hidden costs, housing including gas and electricity is included as are all the landing fees, books, and flight material.
Only extra is a uniform, dark blue or black classic trousers,pilotshirt, black/blue tie. Most people have that in their closet anyway.

Also, today i have heard that the school wants to be the co-leader in Europe in 3 years time (together with Bae and Oxford) and that new planes will be bought( 5 new Pipers have recently been delivered)Interesting times ahead...

Anyway, if you want to take a look at the school, just contact the commercial departement, they will take care of accomodation.