Does anyone actually like it out here anymore?

[OMAAbound]

Pretty much what the title of the thread says?

In November this year, my family and I will of been out here for 4 years, at a time when we didn't think we'd do 2 years we've grown to love the place and the people and colleagues alike. We are a young family, still in our twenties, had 2 kids whilst being out here, done 900 hours every year, been in the box more times than I want remember, stayed in places nothing short of a war zone, been assaulted, done walkarounds in 50° heat and yet we still love it out here, my company (the noisy neighbours down the road) have treated me well throughout it all and I'm just about to start my upgrade in October.

So- chaps, does anyone still like it out here?

[Hypoxic01]

Yep, I do.. Just wish I could find a normal decent women in Dubai and then life will be complete.

[Flyingishere]

New in the company for 8 months and honestly I like it. I don't love it but my biggest "annoyance" comes from grumpy colleagues which I don't blame them for as they have seen this company change.

But from where I come and how that company changes as we speak I know EK is better for me and will stay better even on this level.

TL;DR I like it :)

[CamelRustler]

Congrats on the upgrade after 4 years that's great! Coming up on 9 years and I will be beginning my downgrade along with all remaining 330/340 drivers. So the next two years I will be sitting right seat after serving multiple years here as Captain. I and all remaining 330/340 Captains are no longer qualified to operate an EK aircraft from the left seat. So we will be sitting to the right of DEFO's and persons 4 years our junior. Apparently 20 takeoff and landings at 60 hours a month can not compare to 4-5 takeoff and landings at 90 hours. Oh and after I've done my time in the right seat I get the pleasure of going through a Captains review board and another command course. Yeah this place so totally rocks! Light at the end of the tunnel was indeed the train. Fatbus still likes it here.

[OMAAbound]

Congrats on the upgrade after 4 years that's great! Coming up on 9 years and I will be beginning my downgrade along with all remaining 330/340 drivers. So the next two years I will be sitting right seat after serving multiple years here as Captain. I and all remaining 330/340 Captains are no longer qualified to operate an EK aircraft from the left seat. So we will be sitting to the right of DEFO's and persons 4 years our junior. Apparently 20 takeoff and landings at 60 hours a month can not compare to 4-5 takeoff and landings at 90 hours. Oh and after I've done my time in the right seat I get the pleasure of going through a Captains review board and another command course. Yeah this place so totally rocks! Light at the end of the tunnel was indeed the train. Fatbus still likes it here.

Geeez man!

That is crap at its finest! Why the hell are they doing that, surely they'd of given 330/340 drivers a gig on the 'super jumbo' im pretty certain bus guys can convert in a week or so due to the cockpit familiarities between them?

[airbusgirl66]

Nailed it on the head Camel Rustler....just unbelievable.

[too_much]

Your being delusional if you like it in the UAE or your trying to fool yourself in to thinking life is good out here.

life is not good here, at best it's bearable but far from good.

Take a good long look at yourself in the mirror and ask yourself what the hell happened to me that I'm posting on the prune that life is good in the UAE!!

[Miche767]

Not everyone but very few have the requirement (2 or 4 Captains). Still unacceptable...

[kcar]

Sorry what did I miss? Doesn't OM-A 20.10.11.1 and 20.10.14 apply anymore?

[airbusgirl66]

Management by memo in full force. :\

[harry the cod]

CamelRustler & airbusgirl66

Care to elaborate please? A de identified copy and paste will suffice as proof of a memo that the Company is demoting Captains from the 330/340 onto 380 as F/O's!!!!!!!!!

Not a poker player but will definitely call you on this.

Harry

[DJM1209]

Absolutely hate it.

[CTWO]

harry:.all the 330/340captains with less then 2000 hrs PIC on 330/340 received an email:

you'll go RHS "as a captain" acting FO maintaining terms and conditions, for a period dependent upon your PIC time ( 24months/1500 hrs if with <1000 330 PIC 18months/1000hrs if with <2000hrs). When time is up, you'll go trough a " Captain transfer course" (whatever that means)upon approval by the A380 Command review board.
Funny part is that is nor retroactive....those whom just CCQed without requirements are SAFE......

[MosEisley]

Harry, unbelievably, it is happening. I know first hand from a good friend who is getting screwed. The real kick is that they are 340 captains who have been here a while. They were forced to stay on the 340 while junior 330 only and 330 DECs were moved to the 380 ahead of them because the powers that be decided it was better than ccq. Most of those guys had way less than 2000 hrs 330 and some less than 500. As a result of this colossal debacle, 8 year EK pilots with 3-4 years command but less than 2000 hours due to the nature of the 330/340 flying, will be forced to sit right seat for junior captains with less command time. It's astoundingly bad. Yeah, they keep the pay, but its little consolation for the disrespect and insult.

[skysod]

Back to the thread.......now in my 8th year out here, and not only me, but also the wife still very glad we made the move. It ain't perfect, but still much prefer it here to back home!

[CTWO]

skysod...I guess it all depends on where you are from....don't you think?

[harry the cod]

Then I hate to admit it but it's true.....the lunatics really have taken over the asylum!

Harry

CamelRustler

Point of order....mentions nothing of another command course. Still, that's this weeks policy...

[fatbus]

EK has made a huge mistake with this one! Insulting! Indicates exactly what they think of their employees.

[Rather Be Skiing]

It would be funny if it wasn't so sad!

It is such an ill conceived policy one doesn't really know where to begin.

The irony to me is EK are making a damning statement about themselves and don't have the self awareness to realise it.

In the time these Captains have been at EK, they have been following company procedures and policies, flying a wide body airplane from the same manufacturer as the newer airplane in question and have been through the gauntlet of EK upgrade. If after all that, the airline thinks they are not capable of completing a conversion successfully, then I would say the company has failed miserably in the professional development of these pilots.

It is simply ridiculous.

[Sheikh Your Bootie]

Habibis.

If you do not write in to HD and JA etc, then you are accepting that this is OK :yuk::yuk:

Send an e mail in, fill up their e mail boxes. I will be doing this, silence is not an option.

SyB :zzz::zzz:

[haveago]

This has got to be the most insulting ill-thought out decision ever made! It categorically sums up the total inadequaccies of all of our management! How ridiculous! We all know that so called experience is dictated by hours, this highlights how wrong that is. The 330/340 guys fly to the most challenging destinations on our network and they do it on a regular basis. 20 sectors gives you 50 hours if your lucky! I did a 100 hours last month and did 2 landings watched a few movies in the bunks, struggled with the dailymail crossword, and probably got a few hours controlled rest too! All that suggests Im 100 hours more experienced! I know thats not the case. I did many years on the 330 flying consistently at night to many monsoon destinations, and achieved limited hours, but I know for sure where I gained the most experience! Emirates this is the WRONG decision! Watch more people walk out the door and I hope they do!! Wake up and start making the CORRECT decisions!!!!

[airbusgirl66]

Well said haveago....

[ExDubai]

Habibis.

If you do not write in to HD and JA etc, then you are accepting that this is OK :yuk::yuk:

Send an e mail in, fill up their e mail boxes. I will be doing this, silence is not an option.

SyB :zzz::zzz:
And what will be the answer ?

"Row harder Minion" I guess....

As long as people do not walk out the door, nothing will change.

[CTWO]

Amen , haveago!

[EK-or-bust]

Like 'skysod' said, back to the thread (and 'CTWO', no, it does not necessarily depend on where you are from).
12+ years in Dubai. Single when arrived, married with two kids now.

Life in Dubai has been very good so far. Not a single thing gone bad/wrong to me, my wife or kids. Enjoying our afternoons after school, week-ends on the beach, even mid-summer (no, I don't get enough week-ends off, but who does? BA, LH or SAS complaining about the same, as does my buddies in Cathay and Qatar).
Traveling to amazing corners of of the UAE, like the dunes southeast of Jebel Hafit, the mountains north of Ra's al-Khaimah, lunch in Hatta, then visiting the mountain streams to the east, taking the southwestern access road to Liwa Oasis, enjoying the beauty that is the Empty Quarter.
Camping. Swimming. Golfing. Biking. Clubbing. Water-sports. Dining.
Visiting Oman. Driving to Salalah (several times). Using our ALT's to go to South America, North America, remote areas of Africa, remote areas of Australia. Stewart Island. New Caledonia.
Enjoying it very much, and have not regretted joining EK a single day.

Have I seen a constant decline in our T&C's? Sure.
Do I like it? Certainly not.
Do I inform our management about my displeasure? But of course. Do I think they care? Did not when I joined, do not now. (I came from a highly unionized company in northern Europe, and I knew what I left behind. I though I knew what I was going to, and it has been overall 'as expected').
Do I like my B777 left-seat roster for September 2016? Most definitely not.
Will it get better in the near or medium future? Don't think so. Will call sick when needed to take care of #1. No drama. Will resign if rosters do not improve, long-term.

Back to the thread starter, and title; yes, I (& family) do enjoy it out here still. Very much so.

Let the hazing begin ;-)

[fatbus]

I still like it on the 26 th of the month. Living in MS dump has moved up the departure date.

[CTWO]

Ek- or- bust
do not want to enter in an argument and I appreciate your point of view. fair enough.we are all different,thanks God.

I only want to add a little piece in the jigsaw: "you still like it out here"..from what I hear and read many do not anymore. Question is; do we share the same picture? You have been probably very lucky buddy and I wish you all the best for the future. But just stop a moment and look carefully around you at your colleagues ...you might be enlightened by the "discovery" there are not too many in your "happy" state of mind.

[EK-or-bust]

Sure enough 'CTWO', and I do feel sorry for them and also for what is happening to the 330 boys & girls. I have been lucky, but also a firm believer in making ones own luck, as far as possible. Staying away from training, staying well clear of management etc.

'fatbus' - I stayed in company accommodation for a full 10 months before I linked my future happiness in Dubai directly with moving OUT of company accommodation. Have not regretted that decision for a second. Yes, at times it has cost me more than what EK was willing to pay, but who can put a price on, etc........

[Kapitanleutnant]

EK or bust...

You've been drinking way too much company "cool-aid". The fact that you're on Prune, on a thread about how much people don't like it at EK.... is that not a little bit telling?

I think you in fact do see part of your world crumbling a bit around you but you're "making lemonade out of the lemons" you've been given: Warning letters like confetti, punitive company culture, 105 hours a month, no credit for vacation and getting squeezed for every single minute they can get out of you before and after vacation for month, changes (for the negative) to your "contract" unilaterally..... Honestly, I wonder if we're talking about the same airline!

You must hear quite a bit of negativity on the flight deck with your colleagues, so many of whom are looking elsewhere and want out of EK. Why is that do you suppose? There is a reason for that, and is it possible your colleagues are slightly surprised at your more upbeat assessment of the same airline they are talking about leaving soon?

Is it just a matter of time before you see EK for what it is? It's akin to holding your breath: Some were not able to hold to as long as you are... but at some point, you will have to "come up for air' and will realise what EK all about.

I just can't tell you how happy I was to be able to transition out or EK into a much more appreciative airline, who are happy to have me work for them, who ask what they could do for me as I approached a desk in their HQ as well as a much more civilised roster, and a chief pilot who actually offered a cup of coffee as he shook my hand congratulating me after finishing training.... just to say "thanks, we're really glad you're here".

That sentence.... is long lost at any EK chief pilot or manager for that matter.

Kap

[EK-or-bust]

Kapitanleutnant - very happy for you, finding a place to live where you are satisfied. Well done in ecaping the Sandpit, where you obviously were not happy.

I had it wrong then; thinking this was NOT a thread about EK, but rather a thread about living in the UAE. Which I really like.
Please re-read my initial post, focusing on the last bit, regarding my current employer. Where do you see me making lemonade out of lemons?

[CamelRustler]

HTC- In the year 2019 I (A 11 year FO.) will be placed in front of the Captains Review Board. Upon passsing I will then enter a modified NAC course. This modified NAC course will have 1 less sim then the actual NAC course. Call it what you want. But if it walks like a duck

[Laker]

If anyone is reading this thread with the idea of joining EK make sure you do your research. I guess there are still some happy pilots here but they are few and far between. I'm on my way out and I don't regret my time here. It's been quite an adventure and leaving is going to be a bit emotional.

When I joined I was getting 16-17 days off per month and having a blast. The last 2 years have been a steady diet of 8-10 days off per month. I became an airline pilot so I could work 10 days per month, not have 8-10 days off per month. You will work harder than you thought possible here and there is a higher level of stress at this company than you are probably familiar with if you come from a union environment.

Dubai has some interesting things to offer. Most of them revolve around shopping and 'luxury' things. For me the excitement of nice cars, clubbing, fancy restaurants, and 5 star hotels didn't last long. After a few years it all felt a bit empty. It can be a bit of a mirage. I used to love hitting the beach or going dune bashing with friends. But now you might get back from a ULR, have 2 days off to recover, and then be rostered for a night turn to India. Basically you spend the first off day in bed. The second day doing laundry, errands, etc and then it's time to fly another brutal pairing. It really wears you out over time.

The allure of a widebody command is quite strong. Be sure you know what you are signing up for.

[Me Myself]

Hi everyone.
I found this video on youtube.
A bit long and boring, but God descended on earth to give this press conference, mixing a lot of tosh among sensible words. Must be hard to get this nonsense on a daily basis.

https://youtu.be/oFBr5d1ZO4U

[Kapitanleutnant]

EK...

I actually agree with you on Dubai. Somehow, it grew on me and I accepted it. I told friends that Dubai was "an acquired taste". I've been back once and honestly didn't miss living there but enjoyed the 4 days I hung out with friends.

For me, it was all about EK the airline... the city for me was do-able.

Didn't mean to come across quite as strong as I may have....

Kap

[xhamster]

Pretty much what the title of the thread says?

In November this year, my family and I will of been out here for 4 years, at a time when we didn't think we'd do 2 years we've grown to love the place and the people and colleagues alike. We are a young family, still in our twenties, had 2 kids whilst being out here, done 900 hours every year, been in the box more times than I want remember, stayed in places nothing short of a war zone, been assaulted, done walkarounds in 50° heat and yet we still love it out here, my company (the noisy neighbours down the road) have treated me well throughout it all and I'm just about to start my upgrade in October.

So- chaps, does anyone still like it out here?

I think you are delusional. You say the company has treated you well but:

- you have flown 900 hours per year for the last 4 years
- there has been no increase to the salary or allowances for as long as I can remember
- the corporate bonus and iAchieve payments have been reducing since 2013 (this year you got NOTHING despite record profit)
- your roster and request system sucks (especially if A320)
- oh and your crew meals just got reduced in size!

You've grown to love the place and the people despite being assaulted, and doing walkabouts in 50 degree heat. Your company housing allowance of 160,000AED has only been able to afford you to house your family in a 3 bedroom or equivalent place like Al Reef - which is fine if in your previous life you lived in Afghanistan or Iraq. Like others have just mentioned - it's all relative to where you come from.

Do all the prospective AUH airline wannabes a favour and tell it how it really is.

[highlight]

Xhamster, love your username! It's my favorite website when all else fails. Too bad the UAE has restricted the use of a VPN!

Highlight

[Contact Approach]

xhamster... haha!

[PTU738]

Very well said. This is the only truth about this place.
I had the same experience.

So much more happy now.

[xhamster]

my company (the noisy neighbours down the road) have treated me well throughout it all and I'm just about to start my upgrade in October.

Actually my friend - YOU have treated the company very well, not the other way around! They have done the absolute bare minimum for you by paying your salary and rostering you to the absolute legal limit and to their credit, they are giving you a chance at upgrade. And so they should...I think you are just feeling the love at the moment because you passed the upgrade assessment.

This airline needs guys like you. In fact it thrives on guys like you. Take it in the a** for 4 years because you want your upgrade so you can tell your buddies back home who are still in the right seat of a LoCo - hey I'm now a captain for Etisalat Airways. Big fu*n deal. Been in both situations and I value being in the right seat of a narrow-body LoCo on less salary and paying tax much higher than being left seat of a widebody in the sandpit.

[Nikita81]

xhamster, I fell in love with you. :)

[Nikita81]

Why? He didn't say anything bad or disrespectful about mosques or Ramadan. Just mentioned them.

Maybe he doesn't like the fact that ALL you get are mosques (while there are many temples of many religions in other big cities across the world) and the fact that you are not allowed to be seen eating and drinking in public during Ramadan (which usually means starvation and is dangerous if you are not used to it, especially in Dubai climate and especially if you are working 12 hours shift at the airport) although you are not fasting?

[momo95]

Why? He didn't say anything bad or disrespectful about mosques or Ramadan. Just mentioned them.

Maybe he doesn't like the fact that ALL you get are mosques (while there are many temples of many religions in other big cities across the world) and the fact that you are not allowed to be seen eating and drinking in public (which usually means starvation and is dangerous if you are not used to it, especially in Dubai climate and especially if you are working 12 hours shift at the airport) although you are not fasting?

It was mentioned in a tone suggesting they are a nuisance to him and society along with the other things he listed as nuisances.

Was he making a list of the good things in the UAE when he mentioned them? No. I therefore rest my case as to what he was implying.

[Nikita81]

Implications are tricky things. Everyone comprehends them according their own projections. That's why I don't read implications. Just what is clearly said.

Anyway, he has the right not to like certain things and events. People's rights not to like something cannot be disgusting. They can only be arguable.

[777boyindubai]

Xhamster. Brilliant post.
Momo95. It's called free speech. Remind us ignorant people how many refugees from Syria are now in the UAE? Too busy providing money to the terrorist groups there and Libya not to mention destroying infrastructure in Yemen. That is disgusting.

[xhamster]

And Ramadan. Whilst i respect the law of the country I am residing in and I abide by it, I do found it a damn nuisance when the guy next to me chooses to fast (read NO WATER) during Summer Ramadan on a 4 sector duty commenced in the morning. Completely against the OM-A but it's what's done here and management can do nothing about it. As a passenger, if I knew my Captain and FO and CM are fasting (and it does happen that this is the case) I found this totally DISGUSTING.

[Nikita81]

I found the call to prayer blasting from a loudspeaker a nuisance at 0500L

I was bothered with that as well. Always wondered why I have to be woken up by it after long working hours. Why there is a mosque in a company's accommodation area anyway?

[5star]

Xhamster, my hat off to you....
sums it up really well...... and for being away many moons ago, I can tell you it has gotten A LOT worse....
But if you think about it : these days, the next generation of pilots (with the majority of guys being hired now 25y or less) values 'likes' on their facebook account next to a shiny jet, next to their maxi Hummer v3.0, or in a beach club, MORE than living in a civilized country....And more and more of them come from f-u countries...

I have been here for over 12 years and I fully recognize myself in your post. Have to admit that there are some lovely locals to work or to fly with, but those are just people like me and you. But if you look up higher up the ladder, its all corrupted. Ask the people who have done a legal case here in the UAE against a local, higher up in the foodchain and ask what the outcome was....

The ME is nothing more than a sticky flytrap. Once you're caught, its damn hard to get out. I am now working on my exit for more than a year but with a family and being not of the 'new generation' it is damn hard and at times I am so exhausted that I don't have the energy to continue to work on the exit plan... More and more I wake up with the feeling I am nothing more than a prostitute needing the money and trapped inside by clever tactics by my employer.

ooh btw, if you google your name here in the UAE, you IP will most likely be added by the moral police of list of individuals to be monitored. Great find ;-)

[xhamster]

Of course no one is forced here, however there are those who are misleaded, misguided and misinformed about what day to day life is REALLY like in the UAE as a pilot, and end up here only to think, after the honeymoon period is over (i.e. 3 months) 'WTF am I doing here'?

I think Laker mentioned it above, and I fully agree - if your lucky to get 2 days off in a row flying the narrow body fleet (one day was becoming the norm) then the first day is write-off because you are sleeping until 2PM, the 2nd day is a write-off because getting done what should be the simple things in life done like shopping, laundry etc, renewing something just takes the entire bloody day and generally, for most parts of the year, just zaps your energy.

[WB1900]

has anybody ever tried to get a waranty?
i bougth a computer monitor - unwraped it - installed it and ------ no working no.
somewhere else you would take it back to the shop, they will exchange and thats it.


in the UAE - I brought it back - they did not exchange it - they kept it, sent it in for repair (took 3 weeks) and thereafter I had a brand new out of the package repiared monitor - it was not replaced - repaired brand new

[nolimitholdem]

Great post xhamster. You obviously haven't been out long enough to wear some of the more bitter edges off :) but it'll come...I cannot argue with a word you say.

A word about the Ramadan/fasting thing...there are plenty of Muslim countries that don't make it a crime for non-Muslims to eat/drink publicly during Ramadan. It's got nothing to do with religion in the UAE, it's all about control...

to 5star, I hope you are able to escape while it is still by your own choice, and not in a box. You are absolutely right, that it is (by design) very difficult to exfiltrate cleanly. Just getting the required time off to pursue other opportunities is exceedingly hard, not to mention the lack of energy. I wish you well. All I can say is that there very much is a life beyond EK and the others.

[harry the cod]

xhamster

While I did have a snigger and agree with some of your frustrations, I have to ask what lit the fuse? What a rant 'buddy' and somewhat telling of your own ignorance.

Did you not realise, before you signed on the dotted line that Dubai was a Muslim Country (Mosques and Ramadan), located in the Middle East (hot temperatures & high humidity) that employs many migrant workers on low wages? Did you not realise that the UAE is a desert and arid land before you came or were you expecting the Lake district of rolling hills, dense forest and lakes?

Hour waiting for fuel? Don't run it on empty and be forced join the rush hour morons in the known garages that get busy. (... a 2 for Situational Awareness!)

Education allowance that covers most prestigious school in UK? The allowance is 72,000 dhs....not dollars! Research on your UK prestigious schools might surprise you.

Crap teachers? DC college have some of the best GCSE and A level results compared to the majority of UK schools. JESS Arabian Ranches ranks in the top percentage of schools achieving outstanding IB results.

Chemically treated seawater from bottles? Masafi water comes from Masafi, not from the sea. It's as clean as anything else in the World, probably more so than the highly chlorinated tap water in the US.

Address system? Who cares, mail arrives to my employers address and I'm advised by email whenever something needs collecting. Saves on tons of flyers dropping through my letter box every day like my friends back in UK.

Maid issues? Don't have one. Never have, never will.

Woken up by Mosque? I guess that's a problem if you live near one but you could always fork out 5% to a useless agent to move.

Stench of 300 sweating feet as you drive past the above mentioned Mosque? Well, do what I do and leave the windows up on the BMW X6 with the recirc fan on. The wife will not tolerate having her Chanel dress and Hermes handbag being impregnated with the smell of manual labour on the way to afternoon tea...at the Ritz!

Sure, this place has it's problems, plenty of them and some are getting worse, no doubt about it. You've highlighted several and I don't disagree. However, a lot of what frustrated you is avoidable. While you castigate the Dubai elite and its establishment, you yourself joined it. You're disgusted at the treatment afforded to it's lower class of citizens yet looked down on them yourself with your demeaning comments of smelling like rubbish and calling you mam/sir. How many times did you respond back with a 'good morning?' How often did you offer the engineer a bottle of water and sit down when he came in the flight deck? How often did you offer to pay for the phone card for the labourer in the check out que? How many times did you offer the J class toilet back to the smelly taxi driver that hasn't seen his family in over a year and works 6, 12 hour days a week?

Personally, I'd take that any day over a 'f**k off' from a group of teenagers outside a UK shopping precinct, or a 'give me your wallet' as you walk through Brooklyn at night or maybe just a shot in the head for a few Rand or Real in South Africa or Brasil.

I too can go on and on but I've chosen to stay. Because I'm happy here. Horses for courses and all that......

Harry

[Flyingishere]

xhamster

While I did have a snigger and agree with some of your frustrations, I have to ask what lit the fuse? What a rant 'buddy' and somewhat telling of your own ignorance.

Did you not realise, before you signed on the dotted line that Dubai was a Muslim Country (Mosques and Ramadan), located in the Middle East (hot temperatures & high humidity) that employs many migrant workers on low wages? Did you not realise that the UAE is a desert and arid land before you came or were you expecting the Lake district of rolling hills, dense forest and lakes?

Hour waiting for fuel? Don't run it on empty and be forced join the rush hour morons in the known garages that get busy. (... a 2 for Situational Awareness!)

Education allowance that covers most prestigious school in UK? The allowance is 72,000 dhs....not dollars! Research on your UK prestigious schools might surprise you.

Crap teachers? DC college have some of the best GCSE and A level results compared to the majority of UK schools. JESS Arabian Ranches ranks in the top percentage of schools achieving outstanding IB results.

Chemically treated seawater from bottles? Masafi water comes from Masafi, not from the sea. It's as clean as anything else in the World, probably more so than the highly chlorinated tap water in the US.

Address system? Who cares, mail arrives to my employers address and I'm advised by email whenever something needs collecting. Saves on tons of flyers dropping through my letter box every day like my friends back in UK.

Maid issues? Don't have one. Never have, never will.

Woken up by Mosque? I guess that's a problem if you live near one but you could always fork out 5% to a useless agent to move.

Stench of 300 sweating feet as you drive past the above mentioned Mosque? Well, do what I do and leave the windows up on the BMW X6 with the recirc fan on. The wife will not tolerate having her Chanel dress and Hermes handbag being impregnated with the smell of manual labour on the way to afternoon tea...at the Ritz!

Sure, this place has it's problems, plenty of them and some are getting worse, no doubt about it. You've highlighted several and I don't disagree. However, a lot of what frustrated you is avoidable. While you castigate the Dubai elite and its establishment, you yourself joined it. You're disgusted at the treatment afforded to it's lower class of citizens yet looked down on them yourself with your demeaning comments of smelling like rubbish and calling you mam/sir. How many times did you respond back with a 'good morning?' How often did you offer the engineer a bottle of water and sit down when he came in the flight deck? How often did you offer to pay for the phone card for the labourer in the check out que? How many times did you offer the J class toilet back to the smelly taxi driver that hasn't seen his family in over a year and works 6, 12 hour days a week?

Personally, I'd take that any day over a 'f**k off' from a group of teenagers outside a UK shopping precinct, or a 'give me your wallet' as you walk through Brooklyn at night or maybe just a shot in the head for a few Rand or Real in South Africa or Brasil.

I too can go on and on but I've chosen to stay. Because I'm happy here. Horses for courses and all that......

Harry

Be careful, being happy is a crime in this business ;)

[Laker]

Stench of 300 sweating feet as you drive past the above mentioned Mosque? Well, do what I do and leave the windows up on the BMW X6 with the recirc fan on. The wife will not tolerate having her Chanel dress and Hermes handbag being impregnated with the smell of manual labour on the way to afternoon tea...at the Ritz!
Harry


That's a pretty repulsive statement Harry. I'm guessing you have "committed to destination" and are trying to make the best of it. But for someone just joining remember that your friends back home are probably privately snickering at the Facebook shots of champagne in business class or 'afternoon tea at the Ritz.' Nobody is impressed and you are giving up your 20's, 30's, 40's to drive a X6 back and forth to the mall.

[Nikita81]

Harry is the master of red herring.

Like offering a bottle of water to someone will resolve slavery issues.

Maybe you give a bottle of water to someone and feel like you saved the world, Harry, but I have to tell you, in case you are not aware of it - it's just a way to clean your conscience because your are happy at the place where so many people suffer.

[EK-or-bust]

Harry - brother from another. Well spoken.
The hamster is right in some of his statements, but what a rant showcasing his own ignorance. Keep up the good work, old chap.
And Nikita. Molim te, lolo. Giving a bottle of water to someone that might benefit from it is ALWAYS good. Dobro?

[EK-or-bust]

And Laker. Seriously?
Try to re-read what Harry wrote. And then think. Then think some more. Now, are you more amused than repulsed?

[harry the cod]

Nikita81

I have no need to clean my conscience. Coming from a regime that ethnically 'cleansed' those that were different is something you'll be familiar with no doubt but I will not hold you personally responsible for those atrocities in the same way that you should not crtitisize me for helping others.

Those on lowly wages come from desperate backgrounds and from communities that rely on their salaries. The Indian/Pakistani/Philipine governments don't feel guilty so why the hell should I? If they did, perhaps they'd foster a culture of state welfare and support for their own people rather than allowing them to become exploited by other Countries. It's life and the sooner you can accept that the better. How are Mexican's treated in the US or Black maids in exclusive suburbs of Capetown? Wherever we go in this unfair World we encounter inequality but that doesn't stop any of us from treating people with respect and courtesy. xhamster is guilty of this, I highlighted that fact and now you try to twist those facts. Don't! Get off you high moral horse and criticise those that are guilty of disrespecting others, not those that support them in whatever little way they can. Not because they feel guilty, but because they want to. Simple as that!

LAKER

Is it really that difficult to see sarcasm?

Harry

[Nikita81]

@Harry

But you don't know if xhamster is treating people with courtesy or not, you just made your whole point around the made up fact that he doesn't because it suits you.

Nobody denies your right to be happy, so why you deny xhamster's right to be unhappy? Is it because you are not here to convince us that you are happy, but to convince yourself?

Also, don't ever try to give me ethnic cleansing bull****. You are actually behaving in the same way any 1st world government (British, German and American, especially) behaves: covering their own war crimes and exploitation of the 3rd world countries, devastating people and their countries (countries which you actually mentioned here) making them work for lousy money and in inhumane conditions (just so that you can have your luxurious way of life), by accussing everyone else of doing what they actually do.

My country wasn't the one throwing uranium filled bombs on a European country, and then buying all its companies and institutions after completely destroying its infrastructure and society.

Ethnic cleansing was happening on both sides (like in any war). It's just that your government chose to serve you one side of the story, because they had an economic and marketing interest in that. Or shall we say - if it wasn't for your 1st world's governments I would never find myself in Dubai, working my ass off for coins because my country would be strong and rich.

So, you see Harry, you are guilty. Guilty of being happy. Because your happiness is directly based on my misery. Or misery of any Pakistani, Syrian or Afghan. Or do you really think you deserved everything you have with your hard work?

You are a good provoker as well. Shame that most forum moderators can't see that.

[Nikita81]

And Nikita. Molim te, lolo. Giving a bottle of water to someone that might benefit from it is ALWAYS good. Dobro?

Nisam rekla da nije dobro, već da ne spasava svet. Zamenio si teze.

[xhamster]

Wherever we go in this unfair World we encounter inequality but that doesn't stop any of us from treating people with respect and courtesy. xhamster is guilty of this, I highlighted that fact and now you try to twist those facts.

Harry old chap, you cannot sit there behind your keyboard and accuse me of being guilty of disrespect and discourtesy without knowing the facts:

How many times did you respond back with a 'good morning?' All the time

'How often did you offer the engineer a bottle of water and sit down when he came in the flight deck?
All the time, even used to give him access to the sandwich platter.

How often did you offer to pay for the phone card for the labourer in the check out due?
Never but I used to tip a hell of alot.

How many times did you offer the J class toilet back to the smelly taxi driver that hasn't seen his family in over a year and works 6, 12 hour days a week?

Not sure what you mean by this, but I have given staff travel to some not so fortunate types in the sandpit.

So I ask you: on what basis do you believe you can call me disrespectful and discourteous? Because of my smelly shoe comment?? Read my post again. I am merely stating fact and experience. So for this I give you a 2 for knowledge!

EKorBust - I'd be happy to showcase my ignorance if it helps someone gain a better understanding how life is over there. I am not that selfish buddy.

[Nikita81]

Harry uses all the benefits of coming from the 1st world country gained by exploiting 3rd world countries. But hey, he helps 3rd world people. He gives them a bottle of water in return. And allows them to use the toilet.

[Nikita81]

Unfortunately, we are not going to fix those social issues mentioned by xhamster. Maybe not, but I find Harry's criticism of people who are actually bothered with the unfair and slavery system - offensive. He just must react every time someone writes the truth.

Enjoy your life, Harry and let others express themselves. The world needs people able to see and tell the truth.

Unless you are a management troll. In that case, keep doing your job, you are doing it well.

If you were really happy with where you are, you wouldn't be constantly trying to discredit your disputants here. Instead you would be enjoying your life.

Anyway, you never say anything constructive. You always admit there are problems, but you never propose the solutions, except pathetic and false ones like "give them water, pay them phone bill". Ergo - you are a troll. A good one.

[fliion]

Hats off to to you Xhamster

Paraphrasing - You went from being a man of compassion to the laborer (eh ...briefly) , to being a bigot to the "Pakis" , "the Filipinos" " the smelly Muslims"

And right back to -" fair enough I didn't do my due diligence - didn't know it was that hot - didn't know there were that many mosques." And quite frankly came across as not knowing a whole lot.

Yada yada yada

I mean at least you admit - YOU Phuket up royally

Refreshing

👍

[harry the cod]

xhamster

Appreciate the response, measured unlike some. I'll retract my accusation of you being disrespectful. Perhaps it was lost amongst all the other negativities so the benefit of the doubt is with you! As I said, I don't disagree with some of the problems you mention, they effect as all in varying degrees. Ultimately it boils down to your own personal circumstances and whether we accept the UAE for what it is. I assume you're referring to AD and the 'unmentionable" as you mention narrow body. If so, then your circumstances and surroundings differed from those in Dubai and you may well have had a bigger **** stick to handle. And for the record, JESS is a non profit making school, unlike GEMS.

As Neektu states, we learn to deal with the frustrations by recognising the triggers and then trying to avoid them. Being flashed from behind? Stay away from the outer lane. 300 smelly shoes?, can't say I've ever been that up close and personal .....you get the drift. We can't avoid all the triggers, granted, and when they become the major stressors, that's the time to leave. Sadly, many are doing just that. Not so much because of Dubai, but more the combination of all you mention along with a dysfunctional, egotistical, incompetent and rudderless management that holds little confidence for a bright future.

So, while I don't have a problem with living here per say, I do have a concern with my employer.

Harry

[777boyindubai]

Harry. For the record JESS has a huge EK involvement. Not for profit yet no accounts published. Two EK guys on the board. Another member is married to an EK safety guy. Many current and ex parents wondering if EK use fees of non EK staff to at the very least subsidise what EK pay. GEMS has Sheikh Mohammed as its sponsor. Rumours he takes 30% profit. Both you and hamster have valid points.Enjoyed my time there but glad I left.

[gatbusdriver]

Interesting and relatively measured debate.

For anyone reading this who does not live out here but is considering the move, please visit before resigning from your current employer. Visit in the Summer when life is not so good, be under no illusion what you are walking into. Don't get me wrong, there will always be surprises out here because just when you think you have seen everything someone reminds you ...........you have definitely not!

Regards,

GBD

[Panther 88]

Traffic, traffic and more traffic. Number of cars registered in the last eight years have doubled. And then there are those "individuals" with a certain type of window dressing that really do "own" the road. Please do not impede their progress or you will have a fancy German/Italian/gigantic white SUV less than a meter distance from your rear flashing his lights to let you know you are not as important as he. Drive on the roads at night at your own peril. And remember the road engineers have a motto when designing the road system, "you can't get there from here".

That's what I have learned to love as a result of living here, my driving skills and reaction times and situational awareness has increased dramatically. Oh, I did forget to mention those that love to drive 140 while texting....but that's a world wide issue. Then again you get to see first hand members of the Darwin Awards, i.e.,those who have supposedly contributed to human evolution by "selecting" themselves out of the gene pool by their actions on the highways.

[OMAAbound]

@xhamster

No it was not a 'kiss ass' post as you put it. It was a mere statement from myself that we, as a family, enjoy it out here. Many don't agree, but what are they all doing out here, they all knew the deal when they signed up, 5 years is a long dam time!

I see people every day, and so does everyone else here, complain and moan about everything, but they signed up for it, they chose to Come here, nobody put a gun to anyone's head, yet they moan about it thinking something will change!

Again, it wasn't a 'kiss ass' post, yet a mere question if there was anyone, like us, that still enjoys it out here?!

[thirtywest7]

It seems to me that for some people out there b*tching and complaining is some sort of a way of life. For some of them, it's how they vent, and that's okay it's just who they are. For others, they'll complain no matter what. As an example, flying back from Australia the other day on the 777, I can't think of something the guy next to me did not complain about for the entire flight back to Abu Dhabi, including the roster which is arguably the best 777 roster in the region today.

Others try and see the filled half of the glass and concentrate on that only for their own benefit and maintaining sanity, maybe because the only one harmed by this attitude is you and the people around you. Not management, they most certainly don't give a sh*t how you feel. Just You.

I'm sure it has been said before here many times but it's up to the individual at the end to be happy, and if that means resigning, then that's exactly what you should do. Life's too short to rant and complain all the time.

I don't think it was a kiss-ass post and i also agree with hamster about everything said for the most part.

[OMAAbound]

It seems to me that for some people out there b*tching and complaining is some sort of a way of life. For some of them, it's how they vent, and that's okay it's just who they are. For others, they'll complain no matter what. As an example, flying back from Australia the other day on the 777, I can't think of something the guy next to me did not complain about for the entire flight back to Abu Dhabi, including the roster which is arguably the best 777 roster in the region today.

Others try and see the filled half of the glass and concentrate on that only for their own benefit and maintaining sanity, maybe because the only one harmed by this attitude is you and the people around you. Not management, they most certainly don't give a sh*t how you feel. Just You.

I'm sure it has been said before here many times but it's up to the individual at the end to be happy, and if that means resigning, then that's exactly what you should do. Life's too short to rant and complain all the time.

I don't think it was a kiss-ass post and i also agree with hamster about everything said for the most part.

I completely agree, the 777 roster is the best in the region for us, but guys want it all!

Life is what you make of it at the end of the day, WE are happy here at the end of the day and that's all I really care about!

[Flyboy_SG]

OMAAbound and 30W7 are you guys talking about EK or it's better cousin ?

[xhamster]

OMAAbound, congratulations on passing the assessment and good luck with the upgrade.

The thing is, many people do end up in UAE only to find that life is much more difficult and/or depressive then what was expected. You can be caught up in this without realising it until it's too late. Fatiguing rosters and frustration from company related issues certainly does not help. I had to laugh when the government opened up a ministry for happiness or whatever it's called! I do believe many people are sucked into the ME3 believing that only the depressive fools have a hard time dealing with life over there, but I beg to differ. The fact that a lot of information about AUH airline is no longer accessible via this forum, and the fact that the airline in the past has gone to court and hunted down those who bad-mouthed them on the forum, tends to shut a lot of their pilots' mouths, therefore making it hard for a wannabe to seek opinions and experiences of the place or airline via the forum.

Whilst I wasn't complaining or moaning as I have no need to, I was putting what came to mind about general day to day life experience in the UAE onto keyboard in a direct and raw manner. I do hope it benefits some by making them think a little bit harder and therefore research more about life in UAE before uprooting themselves and the family to come here. I do apologise if some people took this the wrong way and it by no means was a racially prejudiced attack on anyone. If that's how some people want to take it, good for them and I couldn't give a sh*t anyway. But everything said was based on my experience and judging by other responses, other people's experience also.

And sometimes it's just NOT what they signed up for. Look at the latest 330/340 Captains now going to right seat of a 380 debacle that is happening at EK - just another classic example.

I do agree that many moaners complain yet won't get off their ass and do something to actively change their status - these people are definitely annoying.

Interesting to see EK's advert for pilots showing a picture of young punk sand-boarding...oh how times have changed! and someone hit the nail on the head in a previous post about who they are now targetting. The young punk will most likely not have a wife or family, and will tend to place a higher value on the importance of that shiny white jet than some of the quality of life issues that a more mature audience will think is more important. Yes guys you can go sandboarding or dune bashing on your days off - but this and other hobbies is not a measure or factor in quality of life. It's merely a hobby in which you can do in UAE. The fact that the EK pilot recruitment uses this in their advert again makes me laugh. Come on guys, you are looking for professional pilots, your not selling lifestyle or quality of life here - don't even try, it's an insult.

[OMAAbound]

@xhamster

I do agree that guys don't come into it without their eyes open and not having done any research on it before, and for many westerners the lure of "tax-free" & "shiny jet syndrome" suck many in. They'll look at the money and go "WOW, I could save loads of that!" Sadly those days of a quick cash fix have gone, it damn well isn't possible, especially if one has a family. We've been out here coming up to 4 years and we've maybe save around 20k AED. But, again, money wasn't the reason we moved.

If you know what your putting yourself in beforehand, I fully agree people don't do thorough research before hand (I mean come on, there's a guy asking if EK will chase him for his bond if he leaves before 5 years in another post)

As for the complete utter debacle that's going on with the 330/340 guys at EK, there's nothing a raving lunatic American with and half an hour in the EKHQ couldn't fix, there plenty in there that need taking out!

But like I've said, do your research, make it what is it, and hopefully, like us, more will/can enjoy it out here and we'll have less of the moaning toss pots!

[roll_over]

@xhamster

I do agree that guys don't come into it without their eyes open and not having done any research on it before, and for many westerners the lure of "tax-free" & "shiny jet syndrome" suck many in. They'll look at the money and go "WOW, I could save loads of that!" Sadly those days of a quick cash fix have gone, it damn well isn't possible, especially if one has a family. We've been out here coming up to 4 years and we've maybe save around 20k AED. But, again, money wasn't the reason we moved.


Am I reading this right? You have been here 4 years and only saved 20,000 aed, we have no pension! The end of service benefit won't pay for your retirement!

[Sallytraffic]

Reading this post with great interest, would be very appreciative of pm's with info on how things are at the unmentionable.
In particular about the education and rent allowance and as a family of 4 (kids 3 and 6) how tight things would be on FO salary.

Many Thanks

[Airbuspilot72]

Reading this post with great interest, would be very appricitive of pm's with info on how things are at the unmentionable.
In particular about the education and rent allowance and as a family of 4 (kids 3 and 6) how tight things would be on FO salary.

Many Thanks
Stay away. Don't get attracted by Education and house allowance it's all eye wash. Even labours get accommodation in Dubai because we all r expats, so nothing extra ordinary which EK is doing. School tuition fee goes up every year and good schools fee are more than EK Allowance

[Sallytraffic]

Thanks for the response, I'm looking for info regarding the other airline down the road from Dubai. It would appear that it's not as bad as ek there.

[EY_Airbus]

Thanks for the response, I'm looking for info regarding the other airline down the road from Dubai. It would appear that it's not as bad as ek there.

What makes you think that? Entertain me...

[Divertnow]

I completely agree, the 777 roster is the best in the region for us, but guys want it all!

Life is what you make of it at the end of the day, WE are happy here at the end of the day and that's all I really care about!
Are we talking about EK? I have 3 days off in a 22 day stretch. That's a disgrace as far as I'm concerned.

[BigGeordie]

He's talking about the airline that can't be talked about. There is a mention in one of the posts of a flight back to Abu Dhabi.

[Sallytraffic]

Shall we start with the rosters EYAirbus?!

[OMAAbound]

I don't mind posting mine for this month, but no doubt I'll be sent abuse as it's soooo much better! 😂😂

[bigdaviet]

Oh well as long as yours is ok that's great! Happy Days!!

[EY_Airbus]

I don't mind posting mine for this month, but no doubt I'll be sent abuse as it's soooo much better! 😂😂

Seriously? Yours is better this month because you are undergoing command training like you said in the very first post of this thread!

my company (the noisy neighbours down the road) have treated me well throughout it all and I'm just about to start my upgrade in October

So please stop with the BS. We know you are a recruitment lackey!

[Tasmanian]

Honestly... I love UAE... 24-48 hrs layover couple of times a month works good for me!:rolleyes:

[Sallytraffic]

Oma sent you a pm