Island Connections and Off Shore time

[ka26]

Hi guys,

just a simple question. I would like to apply for an Off shore job with the first requirement as "Off shore experience". I do NOT have experience flying for Oil-Gas companies but I have a lot of "island connections" experience, flying in different meteorological conditions to islands at even 1 and half hour from the coast?

Can it be considered "Off shore experience"?
Many thanks
Happy Landings!

[Ant T]

Think you will find that the requirement for "Offshore experience" is to satisfy the customer requirements of members of the IOGP (International Association of Oil and Gas Producers, formerly known as OGP).
In their terminology, "Offshore" flying is really shorthand for "flying in support of offshore oil and gas production", so my guess would be that the flying you describe would not satisfy them...........

[fadecdegraded]

Offshore is exactly that, and if you are island hopping then that is offshore.
It is up the company hiring to differentiate between the various offshore flying that could take place.
Some might want a certain amount of platform landings, others might want ship landings the list goes on.
I would be putting in your island time, at the end of the day you have done it and unless they have specifically asked for OGP type offshore you haven't mislead them in any way.
There will be a lot of people ready to tell you it doesn't count unless it's OGP type flying because that is what they have

[Bravo73]

I'm with Ant T on this.

You could classify it as 'overwater' experience, not offshore experience.

[Apate]

Apply and let the hiring company decide - simples :ok:

[gulliBell]

When I worked at ARAMCO they wouldn't consider Coast Guard guys despite all that over-water flying....to meet offshore experience requirements you need to be landing on an offshore oil & gas installation. Landing on a wobbly Coast Guard cutter in bad weather doesn't get you any credit, landing on an Island even less.

[havick]

When I worked at ARAMCO they wouldn't consider Coast Guard guys despite all that over-water flying....to meet offshore experience requirements you need to be landing on an offshore oil & gas installation. Landing on a wobbly Coast Guard cutter in bad weather doesn't get you any credit, landing on an Island even less.

I guess it's considered more difficult landing on something bolted to the sea floor:rolleyes:

[Geoffersincornwall]

The reality is that the market is 'King'. All the filters you wish to apply are moveable barriers and will reflect the needs of the operator. Everyone in the business knows that raising salaries to 'buy-in' talent is one way to solve shortage problems but the other is to pay a little less attention to the candidates history. Even Shell would allow a low timer in if you could show that the pathway to the present day was good quality experience, no accidents or serious incidents and you, his/her new employer had a training programme that would ensure competence. There are times when flying hours are not the answer and a good sim assessment will tell you a lot about the basics.

G.

[ka26]

Thank you..very useful info!

[maeroda]

Hello.
this is EASA definition for reference from 965/12: "Offshore operations means operations which routinely have a substantial proportion of the flight conducted over sea areas to or from offshore locations"

[[email protected]]

And therefore, since an island has a shore - it can't be counted as 'offshore' when you fly from island to island.

[Self loading bear]

Offshore is offshore.
But it remains to be seen if the hiring company meant this literally and will give you a chance.
Anyway you have to start your offshore account somewhere.
By the way offshore banking is something different as flying tight curves above seawater.

Good luck with your application SLB

[fadecdegraded]

And therefore, since an island has a shore - it can't be counted as 'offshore' when you fly from island to island.

Crab, how do you justify this peice of intellect.
If the island has a shore and you are over the water off that shore or any shore then you are are offshore
I think you might one of the people I was referring to in my earlier post

[Bravo73]

Crab, how do you justify this peice of intellect.
If the island has a shore and you are over the water off that shore or any shore then you are are offshore
I think you might one of the people I was referring to in my earlier post

I suspect that Crab's point is the same as mine. The landings are onshore whilst the transit is 'overwater'.

This is not 'offshore' flying.

[Ant T]

fadecdegraded -
You say -
"There will be a lot of people ready to tell you it doesn't count unless it's OGP type flying because that is what they have". I guess by your comment to crab that I am also one of those.

The original poster says they are wanting to apply for an "Off shore" job, but is worried because they do not have experience flying for "Oil-gas companies", so it is reasonable to assume that they want to apply to a helicopter company that is involved in that kind of offshore work (as opposed to e.g. Offshore wind-farm maintenance, ship pilot transfers, tuna-boats etc.)

The OP does not state where or who they want to apply to, but their location is Europe.

You state
"It is up the company hiring to differentiate between the various offshore flying that could take place. Some might want a certain amount of platform landings, others might want ship landings the list goes on. "

That may be true, but in the European offshore oil and gas support industry, it is the OGP customers of the helicopter operators who specify the offshore experience requirements for pilots flying their personnel, (not the helicopter operator)and I am not aware of any specifying it in terms of "number of platform landings or ship landings", but in terms of operations in support of offshore oil and gas installations.

After a varied flying career I had over 14,000 hours, including 1000 P1 island-hopping multi-crew heli (Falklands!), 5000 helicopter, 1000 P1 4-eng turbo-prop, a few thousand P2 oil and gas, but was still classed by OGP rules as an "Inexperienced Captain" until I had 500 hours P1 oil and gas flying in my logbook.

The OP asked for advice. You say "There will be a lot of people ready to tell you it doesn't count unless it's OGP type flying because that is what they have"
- no, the reason that people are saying it probably doesn't count unless it's OGP, is because that is the most likely scenario given the original post.

PS - Apate at post #5 and geoffers at post #8 have the best comments................

[gulliBell]

The practical answer is, island hopping does not get you any credit towards the experience requirements for oil & gas.
If I were to put my aviation advisor hat on, when making hiring approval decisions, if you have <500 hours operational flying experience in oil & gas = co-pilot only. If >500 hours = Offshore Captain qualified, assuming ticks in all the other required boxes.
Island hopping experience might get you the nod over another co-pilot applicant who doesn't have any over-water flying experience, all other things considered.

[[email protected]]

fadec degraded - read the definition that Maeroda posted - it clearly says
Offshore operations means operations which routinely have a substantial proportion of the flight conducted over sea areas to or from offshore locations" what don't you understand by offshore locations? - ie if you land on an island that would be an onshore landing not an offshore one.

I have thousands of overwater hours from SAR but have only landed offshore on a couple of occasions - that does not make me 'offshore qualified' no matter how you try to spin it.

[212man]

FADEC DEGRADE,
I think the argument is being well made by Crab et al, but just for clarity - what size would you consider the maximum for an island before it no longer counts as 'offshore'?

Regardless, the fundamental criteria for the offshore experience is not to show you can land on a small area - kind of taken as read for a helicopter pilot - but that you are familiar with the operational environment.

[I-IIII]

So
I am doing offshore sling,means rig/rig or jacket /jacket,so how I record my flight time?
sling or offshore?

[gulliBell]

The flight time is the flight time, what you did during the flight is noted in the log book against the flight time entry. If you feel the need to break it down, offshore flight time is always adding to your offshore total. Whilst you are undertaking sling load operations, this flight time is adding to your sling total. So sling offshore is adding to your total flight time, your offshore flight time, and your sling flight time. Offshore and sling are not mutually exclusive.

[I-IIII]

Sorry gulliBell
my question was not well explained,It was just wrote for those that not considering offshore island to island or whatever

[malabo]

Ka26. Log it all as "offshore" and apply.

OGP has boxed the industry into a Catch-22 situation - you can't fly offshore without offshore time and you can't get any offshore time until you fly offshore. So the rest of us were born with 1000 hrs of offshore time I guess. Either that or OGP expects you to build offshore time flying for a non-OGP compliant company until you have the experience to meet their requirements - unconscionable.


Reality is that it is just a box tic, and nobody check up or back. Nobody is going to put you out there as single-pilot captain on your first day offshore. You will fly with experienced pilots that will pass on the operational knowledge required. A doddle, really.

Think about it, all the zero-time cadets that went from an R22 straight to FO on an offshore S92. And you think they are going to be concerned about you?

[gulliBell]

Post #21

Oh. Offshore island to island is not offshore, it's just flight time over water. Which might count for something somewhere, but not OGP. They are looking for in-field experience which makes you operationally useful on day 1 in the new job. Without it, co-pilot, no problem.

[I-IIII]

well!
I would prefer someone that fly 3 time a day sardinia -rome(means 1.30 hrs open water) at others in GOM or Nigeria or whatever that doing 7 NM for to go on rig.

[212man]

I think you just answered your own question right there! Well done.....
well!
I would prefer someone that fly 3 time a day sardinia -rome(means 1.30 hrs open water) at others in GOM or Nigeria or whatever that doing 7 NM for to go on rig.

[Ant T]

OGP has boxed the industry into a Catch-22 situation - you can't fly offshore without offshore time and you can't get any offshore time until you fly offshore. So the rest of us were born with 1000 hrs of offshore time I guess. Either that or OGP expects you to build offshore time flying for a non-OGP compliant company until you have the experience to meet their requirements - unconscionable.

I think that is overstating the "Catch-22" aspect of OGP slightly.
As far as I understand, it is about the balance of offshore experience in a multi-crew operation. A co-pilot with less than 500 hours of (OGP definition) offshore time can fly offshore, but cannot be crewed with a Captain who has less than 500 hours of P1 offshore time. So a co-pilot brand new to offshore will only be paired with initially a line trainer, and then an "experienced" line Captain, and then when they reach upgrade to Captain, will only be paired with an "experienced" co-pilot until they reach 500 P1 offshore.

I would prefer someone that fly 3 time a day sardinia -rome(means 1.30 hrs open water) at others in GOM or Nigeria or whatever that doing 7 NM for to go on rig.

By that comment, you are misunderstanding the whole point of "offshore" experience in this context. It is not about "open water", or distance from shore. 1.30 x 3 of instrument flying at altitude over water with 6 airport landings has no relevance at all to the particular operational issues involved with offshore oil support. The pilots flying the 7 Nm sector to a Nigerian rig may be doing 20 landings a day on short inter-rig shuttle flights.
No one is trying to make out that the offshore flying is exceptionally difficult, it is just that it has its own set of issues. As we all know (and are frequently reminded by some on this forum), a pilot with extensive offshore experience only, would find many onshore operations to be completely outside their comfort zone until they gained relevant experience in the new role.