EK Overseas Bases

[propaganda]

I know this subject has been well and truly discussed previously.However, with the tides turning and the attrition rates continuing to rise. A possible solution to stem the exodus would be to offer EU / US / Aus / SA / CM pilot bases.

[Pilot_Recruit]

Absolutely, it would be an easy fix to slow the attrition and potentially pull some pilots out of the majors from around the world, but Dubai Inc would have none of it.

[knifedge]

Seeing is believing !!

[ExDubai]

Nice topic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU9fb1F4swk

[BigGeordie]

That would be almost the same as admitting some people would rather live at home than in Dubai. For that reason alone it will never happen.

[gardenshed]

Got to admit I do not understand this thing about overseas basing.
First off it's not going to happen.
Second EK would not increase the salary to cover your tax bill and certain things like housing/schooling etc would be liable for tax, hence further reducing your monthly pot.

[Trader]

Even if they did offer overseas bases it would be based on the reverse rostering principle. I would also guess that they would not pay schooling or housing and most certainly wouldn't give a crap about your tax 'status'. That would be your responsibility.

Anyway, won't happen anyway.

[fatbus]

Best to hope for would be part time , 50% rosters

[VLS with ice]

Never going to happen due to foreign labour laws.
However, they should consider "reverse rostering" in the style of China Southern. Still DXB based, but you go on a 4 to 5 day layover to your base of choice, fly through DXB to somewhere else, followed by another 4-5 day layover at your base.
Easy to do with our network......
That combined with part time.......yeah, I know, keep dreaming.

[Talparc]

... and then they have to follow foreign law and unions
keep on dreaming

[Emma Royds]

Unions and foreign employment law would not be applicable if you were reversed rostered, as you would still be based in DXB.

You just happen to have regular days off at home, which is no different to what it was like in the good old days!

[Avid Aviator]

I don't think European, North American or Australasian taxation authorities, to name a few, would agree that you are Dubai resident when reverse rostered.
Who'd take a 40% pay cut to commute to Dubai??

[troff]

Maybe not to Dubai, but ask any Canadian working for Korean how it felt when the bilateral agreement between Seoul and Ottawa as not renewed. Ouch.

[natops]

Anybody who realizes how much most employees of ek give back to the hand the salaries come from, will not ask if overseas basings will be an option. At least 30% of the GDP of the uae comes from suckers like me.

[Enos]

It's just not going to happen.

Cathay have proved it doesn't work from an airlines point of view.

EK dealing with Japanese ground staff starting a union.

[ExDubai]

A horror scenario for the Dubai real estate market....

[Captain Dart]

It sorta works for Cathay, but their problem was that the bases were initially not set up correctly due to their usual modus operandi of arrogance and incompetence.

I am based and I fly my contracted hours without costing them housing and education. I am also called out regularly off Reserve on the base.

Having said that, there have been no new openings in my base port for the better part of a decade. There has been a trickle at others, but in any case CX will never officially deny that bases are finished, as the carrot to try and sucker new joiners into the airline on its ever-decreasing package. But now the HKG package for them is so cheap, with minimal housing, there is no incentive to provide bases to the young SJS demographic, who are joining in droves.

[kingpost]

Reverse rostering, Basings and part time work can work. You're employed out of Dubai on a "temporary posting", therefore unions would not be applicable.

As for tax, that's your problem, this one's simple, if you're going to lose money by paying tax,just don't sign up to it, you can't have it both ways!!

[White Knight]

... and then they have to follow foreign law and unions

Like with the local airport staff and engineers?

[kingpost]

The local airline staff and engineers are employed in that country, pilots are employed ex DXB, there is a huge difference!

[mamamia]

I guess EK are desperate to get pilots as I met a guy who left EK said its hard work not enough dirhams:cool:

[The Crew]

New crew would be drafted onto the relavant base . It would be EKUK or something .
Would be separate company and TnCs. Historically , such bases used to attract crews from outside the airline, would not be open for direct transfer from current staff. Staff woulld normall interview, accept lower TnCs then be expected to resign their current post for the based contract.

[kingpost]

Why would you resign? The whole point here is to either work part time or be based at home, there's no need to resign, you get assigned for a specific period based on the new T&C's, for which you agree to and sign.

You want to control you life and live at home and they need to control your roster without a union butting in. If you sign up to a union you're, which is not allowed in terms of the federal law, you're out - treat it like a long layover for which you pay tax, the rest of the business happens and is controlled from HQ!!

[TOGA!]

The Crew

Why would you accept less money just because you live at home?

Look around to see what widebody Captain pay is around the world. It is not going down.

Stating right from the start you would accept less pay just to be home, is not a great negotiating strategy. $450 USD/flight hour, or sterling, EURO equivalent would be a good starting point.

[kingpost]

Two options, to stay with the company you either accept less or leave, it's entirely up to the individual.

It's their choice, they can either pay market rates or not, but you have the option and experience to accept or reject!

[fatbus]

Basings have been talked about many times . Not going to happen.

[JAYTO]

This has been mentioned before. What about part time work where 2 guys do 1 roster. 1 month at a time each.
They could live in company accomodation on a share basis. If needed they could share education allowance.

The negatives for the company.

2 pilots would need to be kept current with sims and line checks etc. 2 Guys would need to have medicals done. There would be double costs for insurance and staff travel.
Anything else???

Benefits to the company would be these guys could do 600 hours each in the six months of flying. That is effectively 1200 hours for a 1 year roster, an increase of 30% over a normal 1 year roster.

There would need to be some flexibility with the roster. Such as 1 guy could operate into their "base city" then the other could operate back when its time to change over.
Unfortunately I know just how inflexible the rostering can be here. They would have to change their attitude there for sure.

I really think there would be a number of guys who would take up this option if it was available.

Is there anything I am missing to make this a bad thing other than the normal cannot attitude here?

J

[777boyo]

Just thinking about this "reverse rostering" idea in relation to the UK HMRC Statutory Residence Tests in determining your Resident/Non Resident status for income tax. If you achieved 6 nights in UK twice a month, with your wife and children living full time in UK, this would give you 132 nights in UK per annum if you assume 11 months operating (could be more if vacation was taken in UK as well), which is well over what HMRC would allow with the two "ties" to UK (Available Accomodation and Family) if you wanted to maintain your non-resident status. Has anyone looked at this in detail, or obtained a professional opinion?

7B

[kingpost]

777boyo

If you're worrying about tax then the scheme/idea will not be for you, you should be at a stage when you've had enough and got enough, other wise stay working as an expat!

As someone mentioned, these schemes have been looked at before, but they have never been looked at in a market like we have today - it's totally different!

[CaptainChipotle]

It's funny watching you guys waste your time on this thread.

Never going to happen.

[777boyindubai]

It will never happen. EK will never allow unions and the UAE threatens people who take and share pics of accidents. Does not matter if Muller joins as AAR is the problem. Sadly, EK is not a nice place anymore.

[QCM]

Am already based overseas,layovers in DXB...

[Odins Raven]

I solved the problem by joining a UK short-haul airline as DEC.

I pay tax, do about 500 hours per year at present and have my base of choice. Work hard in the peak summer months, and hardly work at all in the winter. My salary is a couple of grand less than a 10 year EK skipper but I'm flying almost half the hours and no night flights at present.

Worked for me, so there are SOME options out there.

Negatives are that there is no staff travel, and I have to bring my own sandwiches to work. Was willing to sacrifice that though just to be at home.

[fatbus]

Bringing your own sandwich is better than 380 crew food .. Unless you happen to walk upstairs at the right time.