Variation 3 and 4 introduction .. EK.

[nakbin330]

So, tomorrow is the start of the 1:25 duty start time.

I would familiarise yourselves with the new variations just in case anybody thought that we might be getting an additional crew member on the long night turns.

[BobDole]

So we add a whole 25 min of duty to our day and they make a couple new variations which pretty much cancel it out. Your old variation night turns of +30 min is now a new variation turn of +60 min? Am I reading this right?

Looks like a win win to me! :ugh:

[LongRangeNav]

I was sitting back waiting patiently for this one to happen and was not disappointed! If the rules don't suit - just change them. Shows the true nature of the beast. Truly a new low.:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Plank Cap]

Annoying, duplicitous and down right anti-safety they may be, but stupid......... not always.

Add 25 minutes to the report time and then stand up and tell the industry and wider world what a wonderful caring safe operation they have, accurately reflecting pre-flight duties with a more sensible report time.......... but introduce Variation 4 allowing an extra 60 minutes to be added to the FDP limit, and hang on, that's just more than cancelled out that earlier report time.

Honestly, you couldn't make this stuff up.

In no way do the associated restrictions on this Variation 4 make up for the extra duty time permitted. Once again, it's down to the individual Commander to manage. Go over the new limit, and it's your discretion, should you choose to use it.........

[donpizmeov]

But the pilots wont notice...honest. I hope JA is embarrassed putting his name on it. Luckily its still 1hr before from an out station. What a waste of ink.

[Talparc]

Management at its best!
More fatiqued crew in the future, looks like they provoke something very bad to happen in the future- stay safe guys

[TOGA!]

cost neutral

[Monarch Man]

Well JA signed it, I'm guessing he's rationalised that signature with the thought that there aren't many sectors it can be applied too....yet.
Typical EK MO of course.....give a little, take away a little more, and they are merely hoping to reduce discretion/fatigue reports, the law of unintended consequences awaits and 2 becomes a more used number.

[littlejet]

I am grammatically and vocabulary challenged...can someone clarify this

...this variation shall apply with crew consent to Flight Crew...

Does that mean I can decline the Variation?

As for the JA signing it...well he will not fly that even if it is only one flight...

Someone actually placed LIKE button to this mail!!!!

[donpizmeov]

I guess it won't be used much as you need 9 days off in the previous 28.

[777-200LR]

Spot on donpizmeov:ok:

Just as joke I counted to see if I could legally do this month...guess what!

I actually want to bid for the variation 4 trips now as it will guarantee at least another day off

[Avid Aviator]

So after months of fatigue reports, ASRs, working groups, venting at forums, e-mail writing etc. about how these Annex 1 trips are fatiguing, dangerous and regularly illegal, what is EK's - response??
They increase the max flight duty period by 30 mins.

INCREASE a limit that is demonstrably over the top already.
WTF?? Makes a mockery of the whole FRMS charade at EK.

Shows Flight Ops Management have no idea of long haul operations and no personal integrity.
Illegal, dangerous and stupid. Can only be a sign of absolute desperation.

[glofish]

Where's the problem? Just say no and file a fatigue report!
Grow some ffs.

[Talparc]

and wait for the next warning letter to be issued
Cool stuff

[Emma Royds]

Does anyone actually care about warning letters nowadays anyway? :confused:

[donpizmeov]

It's trying to find the time to have them printed at those self service machines Emma that causes the bother.

[felixthecat]

Fatigue reports? Maybe I missed them all in last weeks headlines....... ???? If your fatigued file a report! Nothing gets ......NOTHING

[fliion]

Don & LR - the devil is in the detail on this one, annex 4.7.D.1.i - basically states that it can be a rolling four week period. So you could have an annex 4 at end of a month 7 or 8 days off and then the Co can play catch up if you had for example vacation the next month. Further there are now freighter trips where they are using the 2/14 & 1/7 down route with long layover. A day off is a period that is free from duty and of course is fair game in their book.

The new FCI seems to be taking length of discretion away from us - okay good - but increasing allowable FDP by them - sneaky.

[Talparc]

They just play hide and seek as they know the soup is boiling up on the other end!
They just started shovelling their own grave, well done costa muppets!

[Twiglet1]

Sounds like EASA regs . Bit more FDP and discretion now 2 hours limit