Overload R44

[Chief Skid Biter]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFGwDkhAwLU
worth a look
hope it is not common practice

[whipping dog]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFGwDkhAwLU
worth a look
hope it is not common practice

Nothing really to say it is overloaded, but being NZ it wouldn't surprise

[Rotor Kop]

Also needs camera lessons - total waste of time watching some okes face and a bunch of steel....

[Self loading bear]

Also needs camera lessons - total waste of time watching some okes face and a bunch of steel....

Considering they are antipodes,
The camera position is some times more right than wrong

Cheers SLB

[Chief Skid Biter]

Has got the scales showing the weight - still not a good look

[whoknows idont]

The description claims:
Rotorwork helicopters r44 Zk-HBP lifting 330kg of fert in a 90kg bucket

[whipping dog]

The description claims:

I didn't notice the scales, no not a good look.
My ex boss arrived back at base one day with 3 POB and 4 deer underneath, all very well for him until the next owner/pilot/passenger gets on board and perhaps suffers the consequences

[krypton_john]

Hmm, Raven I?

330kg plus pilot say 80kg plus say half a tank 40kg + empty weight 655kg... 1105kg all up v max gross 1089... Oops. I guess it comes down to how fat the pilot is and how lean the fuel load.

Raven II ? 330+80+40+680=1130 v MAUW 1134 no worries can put in another gallon!

[SuperF]

krypton john, you forgot to add the 90 kg bucket...

well over weight at that point!

[krypton_john]

Oops - I thought the 330kg was the loaded bucket on a scale looking at it again I see it is the measured dose! :-O
Makes me wonder if there was a miscommunication - "give me 330kg" intended as a slung load but interpreted as a delivery of fert.

[Looks like 250]

Hold on a mo people! , have a think outside the square here.Why would an employee post such an incriminating video about the company they work for? Maybe they are a FORMER employee now. Does the fert bucket really weigh 90 kgs, only their word. Have the scales been manipulated for the purposes of the video, the helicopter doesn't appear to be struggling with a gross overload.

[Scissorlink]

Hold on a mo people! , have a think outside the square here.Why would an employee post such an incriminating video about the company they work for? Maybe they are a FORMER employee now. Does the fert bucket really weigh 90 kgs, only their word. Have the scales been manipulated for the purposes of the video, the helicopter doesn't appear to be struggling with a gross overload.



Didn't you guys get snapped for overloading by the Feds a few years back, chief Pilots brother ??

[GoodGrief]

31-39kg for the small buckets
http://www.sei-ind.com/sites/default/files/pdf/BB-Bambi%20Bucket%20Standard.pdf

[EMS R22]

31-39kg for the small buckets
http://www.sei-ind.com/sites/default...20Standard.pdf

Thats a Bambi bucket mate , totally different to a fertiliser bucket.

The bucket needs to be 33kg or less to be under the 363kg hook rating....

Sissorlink, pretty sure the machine in the clip is the same one that was made to have a rebuild....

Always two sides to the story though. May be a case of sour grapes by a pissed off loader driver maybe?

[[email protected]]

May be a case of sour grapes by a pissed off loader driver maybe?or simply people using a helicopter like a truck without understanding (or just ignoring) the implications of exceeding limits.....'well it did it last time so it must be OK'

[Hot and Hi]

the helicopter doesn't appear to be struggling with a gross overload.I hope you do. I see you created a new specific PPRUNE user, with its programmatic user name, to make this statement. Your points about being sceptical whether this is not libel are well noted.

However, why should the aircraft struggle? Why would there be at all max gross weight restrictions, if the aircraft ran out of power ("struggle" in your words) before reaching this limit? If the aircraft was to struggle, then it is called a performance limitation.

Max gross weight limitations (and other limitations that tell you not to use AVAILABLE torque or engine power) are there because under certain conditions (namely, cold and low) the power plant does not struggle to put out more power than any or all of the downstream components can handle in the long run (gearbox, rotor head, blades, etc.).

As whipping dog pointed out below, the subsequent potential failure is in all generality delayed, and - when it happens - often catastrophic.

--

Here is another one seemingly from the same operator. But much better camera work.

https://youtu.be/XH4OiMmhEk4

[Chief Skid Biter]

Here is another one (better camera work) seemingly from the same operator. But much better camera work.

https://youtu.be/XH4OiMmhEk4

Good point
In this clip you can see that the bucket is also fairly full would love to know what they were carting that day
Is there a clip on youtube of them hot refueling also I wonder?


http://www.pprune.org/images/statusicon/user_online.gif http://www.pprune.org/images/buttons/report.gif (http://www.pprune.org/report.php?p=9456324) http://www.pprune.org/images/buttons/quickreply.gif (http://www.pprune.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=9456324)

[aa777888]

Does not the scale measure the total weight of bucket and material?

[EMS R22]

No the scales only weigh the product.

[18rollvaluepack]

In my opinion I think what has caused the weighing system to be erroneous is the helicopters down wash has changed the atmospheric pressure around the ground operating site giving the ground staff incorrect readings,this can be caused by a tail wind approach or ground resonance,in any case a very difficult situation to operate any helicopter type in.

[heli kiwi]

Looks like urea to me. A lot lighter than super. Hard to overload unless you have a big bucket or hungry sides fitted.

The scales are electric so not affected by atmospheric pressure.

In my experience loader drivers are blissfully unaware of aircraft MAUW. They just put in the load the pilot asks for.

[newfieboy]

18roll,
Mate are you a pilot or just trolling. In my nearly 30 years flying both semi-rigid, fully articulated and rigid turbines but never having flown an R44, be bit surprised if you can get Ground Resonance in a Robbie, or any semi-rigid system. Hey Ho, every day a schoolday! Matter of fact going spraying next tour in an Astar, quite susceptible to ground resonance, never had ground resonance once in quite a few years, landing on a raised deck and using electronic calibrated equipment to weigh and measure loads. So no effect Also the odd downwind approach and landing when empty and light, again no effect on equipment.:ugh:

[18rollvaluepack]

It's the R44s inverted flight tanks which cause the ground resonance and because of its LTS tail construction it is more susceptible to tail wind conditions,this tail cone construction causes an accerated mass flow down through the advancing side of the rotor disc(similar to a convergent duct effect)creating a increase in velocity and decrease in pressure.this phenomenon would effect the surrounding air pressure substantially.The Astar does not suffer from these flight conditions because of its clockwise main rotor rotation.

[Hot and Hi]

Just to make sure, in case a studious Googlenaut ever gets directed to these pages, that the polite silence of the PPRUNE community in light of your deliberations, 18roll, must not be interpreted as sign of approval.

[Chief Skid Biter]

18 roll - the machine is nowhere close to the loader/scales when the shot of the weight is shown the loader driver hadnt even caught the bucket so I dont see how that could affect the weight of the load

[18rollvaluepack]

Just to make sure, in case a studious Googlenaut ever gets directed to these pages, that the polite silence of the PPRUNE community in light of your deliberations, 18roll, must not be interpreted as sign of approval.
https://youtu.be/KUWhjjfOFec

[EMS R22]

18roll you truly have a grasp on the complex operating procedures of a double cab Robinson on agricultural ops.

My theory is the scales were under reading by 100kgs......

[[email protected]]

18rollvaluepack - I have read some sh*te on these pages but your post #23 really takes the biscuit!

[newfieboy]

crab,
His/her post #20 bout the same........

[Jelico]

18 roll - post of the year x2. Gold

[krypton_john]

Don't feed the troll...

[heli kiwi]

Guys just remember the water flows the other way around the bowl down here. Might have something to do with it.

[maddmatt]

R44's do not suffer with GR BUT they do suffer from the Robbie Wobble, the tail can get in to a significant "wobble" on start up and shut down, I recently flew a 44 where I thought something had come off it was wobbling so badly.

[18rollvaluepack]

R44's do not suffer with GR BUT they do suffer from the Robbie Wobble, the tail can get in to a significant "wobble" on start up and shut down, I recently flew a 44 where I thought something had come off it was wobbling so badly.

xX0mhZhkvZQ


https://youtu.be/xX0mhZhkvZQ

[Bell_ringer]

@18rollsOfTriplePly, sometimes it's best to quit while you are ahead, or in this case behind (no pun intended) :E

[EMS R22]

18roll best banter I have seen on here for a while.Keep up the good work.

[Arm out the window]

Off track slightly but still talking about overloaded R44s, I've been looking for a web video of a 44, somewhere in eastern Europe I believe (?) where a rather large gent gets strapped in the front seat of a 44 for a scenic flight.
The machine gets airborne and is immediately and clearly trying to fly with the C of G well forward of where it ought to be. They stagger around in a partially controlled hover taxi for a short time before the pilot plonks it down in a building site straddling a few courses of masonry blocks and no doubt doing some damage.
To top it off, the ground crew come running over to unload the passenger and the pilot gets airborne without so much as a look over the aircraft.
If anyone has a link to that it would be appreciated. Cheers.

[CRAN]

I'm sure it's been posted on here before; I can picture the video and I'm sure I saw it here.

Is it in the videos thread?

[Chief Skid Biter]

I hear through the grape vine that the CAA have caught up with these guys and are doing a bit of open investigating. Could been an interesting out come

[Whipitwide]

does anyone know the guy who posted the video