seniority list (EK)

[littlejet]

Where is it? Is it just my pc?

[Thridle Op Des]

It frequently disappears briefly, I would 'mayday' after a couple of days.

[natops]

Seniority list already offline the whole day due to not enough pilots to fill it. Expect it to be online again in 5 years.

N.:ok:

[Eau de Boeing]

I think it's been pulled because a couple of people were able to get quite a lot of information out of it, thereby contradicting the official line on resignations etc. Remember in this part of the world, if you can't see it, then a problem doesn't exist. :ugh:

[WB1900]

Senority list is gone. Offline for 3 Days now

[harry the cod]

Not entirely sure how accurate it was anyway. One Aussie TRE, ex skipper on Boeing with initials MM who left months ago was still showing while another individual from the 380 who resigned after a D&A test was not.....and that was from less than a month ago.

Harry

[Buckshot16]

Harry,
MM's roster shows he's still here, all I did was look at his roster and spoke with another B777 TRE, so "One Aussie TRE, ex skipper on Boeing with initials MM who left months ago" doesn't apply, as for the A380 guy, I haven't go A.F clue without initials and a little more info. I guess there is a lesson to be learnt here even though we can't change the letters "Ru" in prune. I hope there's only one MM ! Cheers

[felixthecat]

Even without it being accurate it will show a brighter picture with guys on it who are gone. With that in mind it shows a grim picture of retention that is 'possibly' worse in reality.

[gardenshed]

Still down today.
Do you think they are trying to hide something ?:hmm:

[natops]

Anything what could provide a tiny bit of leverage will be taken away from us. Power game pur sang.
Might be back at some point with less info on it.

What's next to disappear?

N.:ok:

[Capn Rex Havoc]

This pages is temporarily unavailable due to essential IT Maintenance

Bestest english :ok:

[troff]

Called IT support and got a response from them that it was not IT doing anything to it, but "business" that took it down.

[Kobus Dune]

If somebody has fever, break the thermometer

[wadefac]

is this a rectal reading ?

[glofish]

No, probably a al redhal reading!

[Macrohard]

Bid group seniority lists removed also

[The Guru]

Three weeks later and it is still missing and no communication or explanation from anyone in the Fleet office.:hmm::hmm::hmm:

Is it possible that someone in the company could be held responsible for the major IT issues that they are having, or for making a decision to take it down?:confused::confused::confused:

[ruserious]

held responsible, ruserious

[Capn Rex Havoc]

It is NOT an IT issue. IT were directed by BUSINESS to take it down.
By the way, has anyone noticed that you can not search for FLIGHTS on roster search on the portal now?

[The Zohan]

By the way, has anyone noticed that you can not search for FLIGHTS on roster search on the portal now?

Which is quite a big deal for swapping

tz

[fox niner]

So you guys are implying that it used to be possible to look up each other's roster? So much for privacy.
I guess that is how the crew names got leaked onto the net from the EK521 "incident".

[donpizmeov]

Do you need your roster kept secret Fox niner? Do you go to work in trench coat, collar turned up and dark glasses using a different name?

We search rosters so we can organised catch ups at home or down route and for a million other reasons. Cant see any problem with it.

[Sheikh Your Bootie]

A mate Habibis said he had word that the seniority list is coming back, in a reformatted user friendly way, whatever that means... :ugh::ugh: Was fine as it was, durrrr :roll eyes:

SyB :zzz::zzz:

[PositiveRate876]

Let see if it comes with more people on it that it disappeared with. :p

[troff]

In the last 7 months, 220 added to the list.,

[AutumnShadow]

Flight & Trip search is back online now...

[fatbus]

EGIT did it again, after a month of essential maintenance , the "list" is on the portal . What a joke!!!

[Miche767]

Is it my desktop or the list is now compiled by aircraft, bid group, no seniority number. :ugh:

[Capn Rex Havoc]

Except it should go back to "Maintenance" - It is a seniority list that appears to have no seniority. No order, the numbers appear to be randomly mixed. No birthdays and no nationalities listed. :ugh:

[JAYTO]

clear as mud.



J

[Rather Be Skiing]

Well that is a list of pilots, NOT a seniority list.

If they keep saying attrition is not a problem and hide the data, then it is not a problem I guess. Unbelievable.

[Big Enos Burdette]

Appears for be ordered by bid group within each individual seat position.

[felixthecat]

Good job Exel can sort by column ;)
I have moved DOWN the seniority by 40 places since the last list....very strange since I am here since pre the increase in hours. So where did these 'magic' pilots come from??

[kcar]

The magic 40 pilots returned from FZ.
The breakdown of the numbers compared to a year ago:
Total pilots ~3855 vs ~4185 = net gain 330
The most junior pilot has gained 195 positions on the list, however an additional 40 UAE nationals has returned from FZ entering the list before that pilot.
That equals to 235 people resigned/retired last year. Based on DOB there were 10 people that had to retire due age, the rest by choice.
235 out of 3885 meaning some 6% left EK last year.

[felixthecat]

The magic 40 pilots returned from FZ.

I am pretty high up the list...joined in mid 2000s' yet there are 40 FZ pilots (cadets) that came back above me?

FZ didn't even exist when I joined

[ExDubai]

I am pretty high up the list...joined in mid 2000s' yet there are 40 FZ pilots (cadets) that came back above me?

FZ didn't even exist when I joined
All animals are equal..... ;)

[Flyboy_SG]

Fleix, I hope you are not an FO :O

[felixthecat]

Think its just due to the sort being via DOJ vs DOS, so in effect not true seniority list...

[kcar]

Are you looking at the seniority list as a whole or just within your position (i.e FO/CPT)? If you're looking at left seat only there's been some upgrades previously bypassed but nowhere near 40. Plus way more senior left seat guys left than "late" FO upgrades so being DOJ mid 2000' you should have gained quite a few positions.
Arrange the list based on seniority number and compare to a year ago and the most junior gained 195 positions. You'll also find 40 locals inserted above him (most 4xxxxx ++) so those shouldn't affect your relative position.

[TangoUniform]

It's a category list, not a seniority list. "They" just don't want you to know. Since we don't have traditional seniority here, why publish a list that exposes age, country, and tru numbers. Too much info for you minions to absorb. Move along, nothing to see here.

[natops]

Cant tell a lot from the new whatever list this is...

Just a new base line.
Let a spreadsheet compare the new one with the 'old' (this one), in a few months orso and go from there. Compare names, not the list itself, because I think it will be shuffled randomly every few months to confuse the sh*t outof us.

What a joke, treating us as kids. Knowledge is power, keep the Minions stupid and conquer. They really have to change this list into Pilots list, not Seniority list.

Living the dream and wondering why not more people are joining :oh:. Taking information away from us to keep us in the dark about anything.
Feeling respected? Time for another survey like a few years ago I say :sad:.

N.:ok:

[allaru]

why dont you try removing the new guys from the bottom of the new list. Then merge the new and old lists and get the number of duplicates.

(original list - new guys) - duplicates = number of guys that have left.

In any case the total number reflects the net gain which is whats important.

The result will also give a list of guys by name that have left.

Would love to know how many staff they have locked in some dark room in the basement who do all of the manual insertions and other manipulations....Hopefully Dr Muller will sniff them out when he comes.

[White Knight]

If that's a Seniority List then I'm a Dalek...........

Pathetic attempt to hide true attrition!

[Rather Be Skiing]

If that's a Seniority List then I'm a Dalek...........

Pathetic attempt to hide true attrition!
Pathetic indeed. It only goes to enforce the idea that attrition is as bad, or worse, than we all believe.

[5star]

Interesting stuff, how they raided the seniority list. Indeed another effort in hiding the truth instead of tackling the real problem.

Makes you wonder what's next...pprune? :ugh:

[axialflow]

...now its just some random list, with only the bid group having an order (who cares).

Does anyone know how the upgrades are going on the 380? eg How senior are the FOs that are being enrolled in the CDTs etc?

Thanks,

[my salami]

...now its just some random list, with only the bid group having an order (who cares).

Does anyone know how the upgrades are going on the 380? eg How senior are the FOs that are being enrolled in the CDTs etc?

Thanks,

All upgrade courses stopped till 2017... Apparently.

MS

[Ana_Cleto]

I've heard they want 2.000 stick hours on type plus 2.500 stick hours on EK aircraft.

Rumour...

[ekpilot]

Wow! One minute of real stick time for take off and 1 minutes at landing. Then it's all Auto Pilot. We do 50 flights a year. You will need 20 years in the right seat minimum. That makes good sense to me... 😉 Then we would be in line with other major airlines.

[WB1900]

smile - how Senior are the upgraders




well not very, because all the Senior FO Airbus fleet , includes 380 getting nothing at the Moment they started on the wrong fleet (a330/340) - A330 only has it a little better than the 340 guys, all of the hours flown on these types are not counted - internal requirments policy which is under review for the last year. even better that 380 direct FO have got the promise that they will overtake the 330 pilots.


at the present stage all direct FO 380 since 2013 are doing their command couching course while the rest is waiting and got notice for approz 24 to 30 month from the time they receive the email. infact these guys face roughly 6 to 8 years in the company.

[axialflow]

Thanks for the insight guys, especially my salami and WB1900. I have only been around for 2.5 years , definitely no big rush to jump to the left but just trying to keep an eye out for developments (or no developments!).

All upgrade courses stopped till 2017... Apparently.


...I assume that means the guys who have received 'The Email' will be waiting for some time, possibly longer than 30 months.

Ax

[BigGeordie]

'The email' is only a hint about what might happen. Everything at EK is subject to change, delay and cancellation at the whim of the company. Or for 'operational reasons'. Same thing.

[jack schidt]

Guys, let's get some sense here please. As per post 49, telling them how to bypass the system, it will ONLY give them the information on how to hide it more.

The reason the Seniority list has been obliterated is not because of people leaving, it is because people on these forums can't keep their mouths shut. Honestly, the posts here are the reason it is no longer a seniority list, not the attrition.

Like post 49, instead of publicly telling EK how to further hide it, post that you know a way for guys to see it, as it once was, and to pm you for the know how.

J

[littlejet]

I think it should be posted here how to sort out the list. To show how pathetic this move was....

[fliion]

Completely agree with littlejet on this one.

What is more important? ... actually having the exact details of said list & the general malaise that we are all aware of.., or watching the Co. parry each move one of our guys figures out - to get around a basic IT issue.

It's fawlty towers stuff from the bouncy castle.

Let them continue to embarrass themselves ...as we collectively shake our heads. Don't know whether to laugh or cry at this stage.

Anyway not to worry - All will be revealed in the monthly Fleet Forum 😉

[fatbus]

I just worked with a 330 transfer to 380 a year ago and he is short tracking the road to command by 20 months .

[Hypoxic01]

The Seniority List can be downloaded and re-ordered to reflect the list as it used to be. PM for info. I don't use Apple.. it's evil so can only offer windows info. Maybe it will still work for the Apple munchers.

[PWFC]

Am i to understand then no upgrades or Even DEC then till 2017 ?

Cheers

[hugh767]

I not even on the list and i get paid every month, what a joke.

[harry the cod]

Hugh

Do you want to swap, I'm the other way round?!!!

Harry

[trent1974]

The Seniority List can be downloaded and re-ordered to reflect the list as it used to be. PM for info. I don't use Apple.. it's evil so can only offer windows info. Maybe it will still work for the Apple munchers.
I confirm, the seniority list can be reordered to resemble the proper order using windows.

[harry the cod]

And why on Earth do we need to start faffing around with computers to obtain something that every other airline provides in a straightforward, easy to read layout? A seniority list is exactly that, a list with the MOST senior pilot at number 1 and the LEAST senior pilot at number x. Why we need to make everything so bloody complicated in this outfit is beyond me at times!

Is it really so hard to produce something so simple?

Harry

[trent1974]

And why on Earth do we need to start faffing around with computers to obtain something that every other airline provides in a straightforward, easy to read layout? A seniority list is exactly that, a list with the MOST senior pilot at number 1 and the LEAST senior pilot at number x. Why we need to make everything so bloody complicated in this outfit is beyond me at times!

Is it really so hard to produce something so simple?

Harry
I completely agree. The fact that they are trying to hide something means there is obviously something to hide. I hope CM can make some positive changes.

[ruserious]

Harry at what point did you think they ever do simple here in Dubai?
Give them the perfect system designed by geniuses, they will continually tweak it, degrade it, complicate it, add more rules and ultimately stop it from having any utility whatsoever.
Only option is to blame the pilots, buy a new system to replace it, then start all over again. No surprises!

[JAYTO]

I heard there are more DEC joining. What better way to piss off the hundreds of FO waiting to start courses. How about a feeble attempt to hide this fact so that more of them dont leave.


J

[fatbus]

I have said it before , they don't care about the individual pilot. All they care about is moving Airplanes.FO career progress , they don't care. FO feelings about DECs they don't care . CAPTs 330 going RHS 380 they don't care. They also , presently, don't care how many leave . Sinking ship !!!!

[fliion]

Harry - I know you practice what you preach.

When you wrote to JA complaining about the missing list - what did he say!?

😂😂😂

[donpizmeov]

The reply I got was it was not their doing. Like everything here, no one is responsible. Muppets the lot of them.

[777boyindubai]

Please don't insult muppets, Don....

[Rather Be Skiing]

The reply I got was it was not their doing. Like everything here, no one is responsible. Muppets the lot of them.
I actually believe that. The sad reality is that Fleet is a powerless, marginalised department with no real say in most of the affairs that relate to us.

Since that lack of respect and appreciation of employees starts from the top, there is no chance of any improvement until there is a top down desire to do so.

We are just mushrooms...

[littlejet]

The sad reality is that Fleet is a powerless, marginalized department with no real say in most of the affairs that relate to us

Powerless or ignorant?
It is easy to say, not in my power I did not do that...

They are basically payed to react. They don't.

I don't see any of them resigning because of their powerlessness.

[Rather Be Skiing]

Powerless or ignorant?
It is easy to say, not in my power I did not do that...

They are basically payed to react. They don't.

I don't see any of them resigning because of their powerlessness.

Resigning, or not, speaks more to integrity and/or ethics. That could be a whole other discussion.

[WB1900]

looks pretty much like that it will be time to leave for a 330/340 FO. What I read and hear is that every buddy will somehow get an upgrade or 380 course except the 330/340 FO.
newbies in the company with just 3 years in for upgrade, B777 Capt for transition - ex 330 / 340 FO zero, nothing, nada.


obviously they are ment to be longterm FO. again a hit i the B.....


Thanks to all who take care of this

[fatbus]

WB , wrong mate!

[WB1900]

what is excatly wrong
all from 424 to 430 got ccp some of them interviews, most ex 330/340 got nothing. is cross checked with roasters and sen list. Fleet invited everybody with nearly 2.8 years in EK direct entry 380 FO.

[airbusgirl66]

Well if it makes you feel any better, there's pilots who have been here for 8+ years, Capt's for almost 4 years on the 330/340 fleet, that are now going to have to go sit as a FO for 18months, 1000hrs, and 3 PPC's on the 380.

Fair...NO. What can be done...probably nothing. You know the saying here.

[PGA]

Is that confirmed? And what is the reasoning behind it, considering F/O's with hardly 3 years here seem to be doing interviews on the 380?

[airbusgirl66]

Yes, it's positively true with regards to my post.

[donpizmeov]

Every time you think the lowest ebb has been reached, these guys go all out and create another. They are freakin experts. If only they could work their magic for good and not for evil.

[SOPS]

In another post, Don said that 777 CAs were going to the A380 as Captains, but Airbus CAs can't? What gives?

[Xulu]

I've flown with a few newly transferred Captains who have come straight from 330. No 18 months/1000 hours on type.

Of course 330 FO's should expect to do at least some time on the 380 before getting an upgrade.

A shortened type rating, command course and new routes/regions is too much all at once in this training environment - they'd be a liability for 6 months, so they may as well do those 6 months in the RHS where they can be get some basic experience/knowledge/confidence before switching seats. And really, they should recognise that.

2500 hrs on type is too much. 18 months is still too much. But 6 months would be sensible.

The 35yo upgrade requirement is coming from GCAA, not from EK. It's not their choice. I imagine they'll be pushing for an exemption, and expect in the short-term that it'd be granted.

[Capn Rex Havoc]

XULU

A shortened type rating, command course and new routes/regions is too much all at once in this training environment - they'd be a liability for 6 months, so they may as well do those 6 months in the RHS where they can be get some basic experience/knowledge/confidence before switching seats. And really, they should recognise t

XULU,

I call Bullsh.it on that.

330/340 captains, have, without doubt, operated in far more difficult flight regimes/airfields, than any "super" has operated.

Any EK 330/340 captain can easily and safely be ccc'd onto the 380.

I should know, I came for from the little fleet- and the 380 is a doddle in comparison.

[donpizmeov]

I hear ya Rex. It aint rocket science to sleep in a bunk. Line training will fix the other stuff.

[Talparc]

Just heared from a HR guy that the seniority list got initially removed as somebody discovered the scam of putting in countless rejected applicants names to artificially increase the pilot force on the list.
Did anybody check the new list ( more of a bidding list) for irregularities?

[pilotguy1222]

All upgrade courses stopped till 2017... Apparently.

MS

Not true. Oct classes and Nov classes are still being filled and ongoing as of today's date.

Seems to me that this shafting af the 330/340 CAs is a ploy to keep the right seat full(er).

[kcar]

The Seniority List can be downloaded and re-ordered to reflect the list as it used to be. PM for info. I don't use Apple.. it's evil so can only offer windows info. Maybe it will still work for the Apple munchers.I suppose you marked the text (list), used the copy function of the browser and then imported it into Excel but that function has now been inhibited.

[Hypoxic01]

I suppose you marked the text (list), used the copy function of the browser and then imported it into Excel but that function has now been inhibited.
It's a bit more involved than that. Others have had success following my method.

[natops]

Just had a look at our new useless seniority list.

There is one person CA 380, with a bidding group no.6.
To my knowledge there are only 5, or did I miss something again?

You guys think its a typo or is there a group6 ( invitation only)?
:E

[The Outlaw]

I noticed that same individual in bid group 6 as well...it would appear that he is "more equal" than others. Sure is nice to be top in the group every month!

[montencee]

Just had a look at our new useless seniority list.

There is one person CA 380, with a bidding group no.6.
To my knowledge there are only 5, or did I miss something again?

What about the fella above him? Last entry in group 5, # starting 449. Is he the first A380 DEC?

[donpizmeov]

Almost. He had a month or three on the 330 after training.