TRUMP,might trump NATO.

[Onceapilot]

Reported on BBC that "the Donald" might drop NATO military cover!:ooh:

OAP

[glad rag]

Reference?

[BossEyed]

Trump says US may abandon automatic protections for Nato countries - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36852805)

[Chugalug2]

He's either being clever and ratcheting up the pressure for NATO countries to sub 2% GDP on defence, or cutting his nose to spite his face by compromising European and hence US security in threatening to pull the plug. Whatever else he might be, I do not think him to be stupid. Others may have different ideas...

[ShotOne]

If you read what trump actually said it seemed more a populist message aimed at his domestic audience, particularly the bit about not lecturing other countries "when our policemen are shooting people in the streets."

[Lonewolf_50]

... Mr Trump said the US would only come to the aid of allies if they have "fulfilled their obligations to us". Wonder what that means? 2% GDP? Something else? Sorta vague.
In a preview of what he will tell convention-goers in his speech, he outlined a foreign policy strategy aimed at reducing US expenditure and involvement abroad. Well, we've been shrinking the overseas footprint since about 1989, and our BRAC has been shrinking our bases here since 1993. It's a trend already in place.
....
Referring to what he said were US trade losses, Mr Trump said: "We are spending a fortune on military in order to lose $800bn. That doesn't sound very smart to me."
A non sequitur, (different colors of money) but an interesting take on where money goes.
He also suggested he would close US bases abroad. "If we decide we have to defend the United States, we can always deploy" from American soil, he said "and it will be a lot less expensive". Heh, depends upon how you want to deploy and for how long.

From a study by the US Army, it took about 12 years of building up the logistics/basin in Kuwait to make the 2003 move into Iraq possible. I'll get the name of the study, read it back in the mid 00's.

[Stitchbitch]

Agreed ShotOne, however from what I can gather he said: "Look at what is happening in our country. How are we going to lecture when people are shooting policemen in cold blood?"

[Tourist]

I can't believe I agree with Trump on anything, but he has a point.

NATO is about everybody standing together as a gang for mutual support. If 90% of the members can't be bothered to pull their weight, why should the US not tell them that the deal is off?

[NutLoose]

Seemed a lack of mutual support for Turkey from the rest of NATO when the sh*t was hitting the fan... mind you there were enough wizzing around in the skies without anyone else getting embroiled.

[ShotOne]

You're right, stitch although I stand by the substance of what I said. When Trump speaks, he does so to those with a vote. It's not about what we think.

[Pontius Navigator]

NL, NATO does not interfere in internal affairs of its members, or indeed affairs between its members.

[Pontius Navigator]

.

From a study by the US Army, it took about 12 years of building up the logistics/basin in Kuwait to make the 2003 move into Iraq possible. I'll get the name of the study, read it back in the mid 00's.
Interesting as US Forces were poised to drive into Iraq at the outset, not 12 years later.

[Lonewolf_50]

Pontius, the politically expedient 100 hour war, and the loss of a lot of staging rights in Saudi as we soured in relationship to each other (see among other things how Khobar Towers played into that) meant that how we were set up in 91 was not going to be replicated in 2003.
Example, PSAB was not available.
I know one of the guys who worked on that report, I think it may be available in the public domain. Will get you a link if I can.
EDIT
Here you go: On Point (http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/cgsc/carl/download/csipubs/OnPointI.pdf) (It's a pretty big pdf so it may take a while to download, if you are interested. )

[ShyTorque]

Whatever, I'm sure he will wish to protect his personal real estate assets in UK.

Or maybe he will form a new military alliance with Scotland alone, if they hold that threatened second referendum... :E

[glad rag]

Whatever, I'm sure he will wish to protect his personal real estate assets in UK.

Or maybe he will form a new military alliance with Scotland alone, if they hold that threatened second referendum... :E
Usual bickering from the cheap seat!

[MPN11]

Sadly, I agree with Trump on this one. If you are in NATO, you pull your share to get the massive cover the US provides.

I seem to recall Brave Belgium refusing to sell us 1,000 lb bombs for GWI, and the subsequent discovery that they had lied about their NATO War Stocks.

However, here in the USA right now, the polls are level pegging. So Trump is NOT a certainty. Keep Calm, and Carry On. ;)

(I wish he didn't always remind me of Benito Mussolini)

[stilton]

Trump is an egomaniacal, short attention span, ignorant bigoted lunatic and represents as big a threat than any terrorist to the stability of this planet.


As flawed as Hillary is she's a FAR better choice than this moron.

[ShotOne]

If Trumps rhetoric spurs some NATO members to start meeting their commitments then that's surely not a bad thing?

[ShyTorque]

Usual bickering from the cheap seat!
Cheap seat or not, based on the true state of play...or aren't you aware of his interest in Scotland in particular?

[Wander00]

If Trump (heaven forfend) was elected POTUS, would he have to give up all his business interests?

[Lonewolf_50]

Trump is an egomaniacal, short attention span, ignorant bigoted lunatic and represents as big a threat than any terrorist to the stability of this planet.

As flawed as Hillary is she's a FAR better choice than this moron. Actually, neither is worth the crap I wiped off of my shoes last week after hitting a land mine left by my dogs in the back yard.


As to his NATO rhetoric, it's a lot of wind as he's not an elected official, nor an appointed official. Most people who arrive in the White House undergo a pretty steep learning curve on "now that you're here, the real deal is ..."


I'd not worry about his noise on NATO unless he gets elected. Then, if he has something to say, maybe pay attention to it.

[A_Van]

Obviously guys like him are dangerous when given real political power. However, this issue seems to be rather in the economical plane and nothing is wrong in promising to nail down some scrooges :-)
Would be fun to see some "fighters against eastern monster" and "partners for peace" buying a single F-35 (or a half of it) per country to spend the required 2% of the budget.

[Lonewolf_50]

Obviously guys like him are dangerous when given real political power. I don't know, as he's never held political office. I get the feeling that he doesn't actually understand the job he's trying to get. However, this issue seems to be rather in the economical plane and nothing is wrong in promising to nail down some scrooges :-) It makes for good copy, good luck with any actual result. Would be fun to see some "fighters against eastern monster" and "partners for peace" buying a single F-35 (or a half of it) per country to spend the required 2% of the budget. Better off with Super Hornets. Cheaper, ready to fly now, spare parts / maintenance system is well understood.

[Pontius Navigator]

LW, I think A V was being sarcastic, ante up enough to but an F17.5, it high lights just how little 2% is for some States.

[Lonewolf_50]

LW, I think A V was being sarcastic, ante up enough to but an F17.5, it high lights just how little 2% is for some States.
I am aware of that. I was also involved in Partnership for Peace in an official capacity.


I recall working with some Russian colleagues, and IIRC the Russian Federation joined the PfP in 1994. Hell Russia had a liaison office at SHAPE in the 90's, and the Russian airborne brigade worked with the Americans in the Northern sector in Bosnia during IFOR ... not sure what A Van is getting at.

[riff_raff]

I hope you all are not stupid enough to believe what the BBC states about Mr. Trump. The BBC is a left-wing propaganda outlet.

First, Mr. Trump has not been elected President or sworn into office yet, so he has no authority in the matter. More importantly, the dimwits at the BBC fail to grasp the fact that Article II of the US Constitution requires the President to get approval from Congress before any international treaty agreement he negotiates becomes binding US law.

Ever wonder what the "T" in NATO stands for?

[TBM-Legend]

The real point that Donald Trump made was that he sees the USA as being finished with providing funding etc to NATO countries that don't shoulder their fair financial burden and expect the USA to pay in men and material...

Freeloading for security is over!

[M609]

Clearly then, Trump does not understand that geographical location of some countries might be worth more to NATO (And indeed the US) than what the countries might be able to contribute payment wise.

The baltic countries is a good example.

It is not out of kindness that the US has part funded the Norwegian Military Intelligence service since the early 50s either......I don´t know, but I suspect the US might have those kind of interests in the baltic countries as well.

[Tourist]

Clearly then, Trump does not understand that geographical location of some countries might be worth more to NATO (And indeed the US) than what the countries might be able to contribute payment wise.

The baltic countries is a good example.

It is not out of kindness that the US has part funded the Norwegian Military Intelligence service since the early 50s either......I don´t know, but I suspect the US might have those kind of interests in the baltic countries as well.

What you say may have been true when the US cared about the expansion of communism across Europe.

Since Trump doesn't give a cr@p about anything outside the borders of the US, that hardly holds true if he were to come into power.


I do agree with him about freeloading though.

[Rick777]

Trump is an admirer of Putin and has business interests in Russia. He does say that he will let his kids handle the business if he is elected. I would not be surprised to see Russia expand its territory quite a bit under a Trump presidency.

[Heathrow Harry]

He might sell Alaska back to them....................